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Callum Hey
12-10-2002, 12:24 PM
I'm trying to set up a network for some friends who have recently bought a business.

The "networking guy" that they originally got in set it up and then turned to them when an error message came up and said "I don't know why it's doing that and it isn't working" and then walked out the door never to be seen again.

The problem is this.
Two computers, both running Windows XP Pro. P2P network, no hub using crossover cable. Both computers are on the same workgroup.

The back office computer can ping and get a response from the POS computer, but not the other way around.

The POS computer can view itself on the workgroup, but it can't view the back office machine.

The backoffice machine can't view any information about the workgroup and there is an error message about access rights and saying to contact the network administrator for user privileges. The problem with that is the network was created in the username of someone who IS the administrator and they're in the administrator group as well.

To be honest, I'm doing a bit of fire fighting here because I've just picked up the problem and I don't know what the person who went before me did....so I'm a few steps behind still on the problem.

I hope I've explained this well enough and I don't think I've left anything out...but please feel free to mention stuff and I'll either check it or tell you what I found (since I might have already tried it...but just forgotten).

Thanks

Callum

madmusician66
12-10-2002, 12:36 PM
Hey

I'm not sure how much this will help, but I had the same problem with two Windows ME Machines. For some reason the machines had major problems with a TCP/IP Network, (even when the Domain Server was present) so I installed NetBeui on both of them (which upset me as I wanted a TCP/IP Network only) and told them to log onto Microsoft Networks.
That seemed to work for me

However, another annoying thing I found was that when I started changing my IP range the computers couldn't see eachother - the fault WinME1 was using "Obtain IP Address automatically" and setting itself to 192.168.0.1 when WinME2 and the Server were using a specified IP Address of 172.16.0.1 and 172.16.0.2

If the worse comes to the worse you could always remove networking from both of them, reinstall it on both and specify your settings OR Doesn't Windows XP (both versions) come with Home Networking Wizard? - Couldn't you try using that??


Hope this helped


Matt

mashimaro
12-10-2002, 12:49 PM
Umm. it's a bit hard to fix this kinda probs without sitting infront of the machine .. u know what i mean eh :)

On both machine .. start DOS prompt and type "ipconfig" and it should tell you the IP address, Subnet mask and Default gateway. make sure sure machine uses the same subnet mask .. usually 255.255.255.0 and if you're using ICS then one of the IP should be 192.168.0.1 and other should be 192.168.0.x where x is assigned automatically. If you're not using ICS simply use 192.168.0.1 for one machine and 192.168.0.2 for the other.

Eg. PC1 (192.168.0.1) and PC2 (192.168.0.2)

on each machine ping it's own IP.
on PC1 ping 192.168.0.1 and on PC2 ping 192.168.0.2

If both machine can ping it's own IP then try to ping the opposite machine's IP.

on PC1 ping 192.168.0.2 and on PC2 ping 192.168.0.1

make sure both XP's Firewall has been Disabled

A few reasons when one machine can't ping to another are

Faulty connection (includes cable, cross over adaptor, hub...etc)
One of them has Firewall
They're on different Subnet Mask
The range of IP addresses

Cheers

Graham L
12-10-2002, 01:25 PM
Since this is a "simple" network, with the same OS on both machines, it will probably be easiest to remove the network stuff from both machines, turn them off. Turn on one of them, let it detect the card, and install network software, using the Wizard. Do the same on the other.

mara99
13-10-2002, 12:03 PM
Have you got any Firewall running?
I have exactly the same problem when connecting laptop to desktop with ZoneAlarm running on the desktop (connected to internet using adsl)
Can access the internet through Internet Connection Sharing from laptop OK but can't 'see' the PC
When I shut down ZoneAlarm I can see both machines in Win Explorer

Callum Hey
13-10-2002, 12:05 PM
Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

Mike and I worked on it all afternoon yesterday and we THINK that we might have isolated the problem as being a faulty port or a fault card...

The guy from the shop doesn't believe us so has decided to try and reinstall the drivers and hopefully we'll find out the result sometime today.

Thanks again

mikebartnz
13-10-2002, 01:59 PM
Mara99 you can tell ZA to allow certain IP addresses but it does mean assigning both machines an IP address.
By the way there is an excellent FAQ on networking.

Graham L
13-10-2002, 02:58 PM
But one computer can ping and receive the responses from the other. The hardware is working.

It will be security settings in the Windows. ... XP will want to have users set up correctly. That's why I suggested reinstalling the network software. I "hope" that the Wizard will be able to set up a simple network with the same OS on both hosts.

Mike
13-10-2002, 03:14 PM
>>> But one computer can ping and receive the responses
>>> from the other. The hardware is working.
>>> It will be security settings in the Windows. ... XP
>>> will want to have users set up correctly. That's why
>>> I suggested reinstalling the network software. I
>>> "hope" that the Wizard will be able to set up a
>>> simple network with the same OS on both hosts.

Graham, it seems to us (Callum and I) that one computer can ping its own card, but can't ping the other computer (the problem one we think). The other one can't even ping it's own card, let alone the other computer.

We tried your method - totally uninstalled all the drivers etc. and reloaded them, let XP do its thing, run the networking wizard, created a networking wizard to take to the other computer to get all the settings right, and still didn't work. Tried the idea of pinging the computer's own NIC and it just timed out.

I phoned the guy from Noel Leemings about it and he basically said (in all his amazing wisdom) that I was wrong and that there was nothing wrong with the NIC, that it must be a driver problem. But I don't accept that, as Win XP wouldn't go and happily load a driver for the network card that just will not work... either it'd say its not the right hardware, or it should work (unless the card isn't working).

I think that there is some communication going out from the NIC, but not 100% - the other computer can see the problem one, eg can see the name of the computer, but that's all - it gives a permissions error (I think that's just a standard error for a network problem with XP). But the problem computer can't even see the other one, and can't even PING its own card.

LOL I hope all that makes sense :)

Mike.

Graham L
13-10-2002, 03:29 PM
Callums first posting said backoffice could ping POS and get a response from it ...
Desperation mode:
(1) Have you given them fixed IP numbers? ... in the same net (watch for dud masks). E.g., 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2, mask 192.168.0.255 .

(2) Should be able to ping 127.0.0.1 (that's always "me", "mycard".

(3) Have you tried another cable? Is it a crossover? (hold the plugs with cable at bottom, latch away from you ... the pin numbers are 1,2...7,8). Pin 1 goes to 3, 2 to 6, 3 to 1, 6 to 2 in a crossover.

(4) If "goodie" can see "baddie's" name, there must be some communication.

Conclusion: Networks are fun. :_|

Idea: Have you got two copies of PC World's CD with Knoppix? That would probably be a good test of the hardware. Linux networks nicely ...

Mike
13-10-2002, 03:38 PM
> Callums first posting said backoffice could ping POS
> and get a response from it ...

That's something we've found odd - first we thought it did, but then we think it actually was pinging itself... and our final test it wouldn't ping anything :)

> Desperation mode:
> (1) Have you given them fixed IP numbers? ... in the
> same net (watch for dud masks). E.g., 192.168.0.1 and
> 192.168.0.2, mask 192.168.0.255 .

Tried both fixed and Windows assigned - got the same result

> (2) Should be able to ping 127.0.0.1 (that's
> always "me", "mycard".

Running "netconfig" and getting the local IP addresses, pinging that address timed out. Didn't try pinging 127.0.0.1 - will try that next :)

> (3) Have you tried another cable? Is it a
> crossover? (hold the plugs with cable at bottom,
> latch away from you ... the pin numbers are
> 1,2...7,8). Pin 1 goes to 3, 2 to 6, 3 to 1, 6 to 2
> in a crossover.

Yup - exactly the same result testing with another cable. The second cable we know definitely works, so we've ruled out the cable.

> (4) If "goodie" can see "baddie's" name, there must
> be some communication.

That's what we figured - some communication doesn't mean full communication though. We're waiting for it to come back from the guy at NL and see what his verdict is :D

> Conclusion: Networks are fun. :_|
>
> Idea: Have you got two copies of PC World's CD with
> Knoppix? That would probably be a good test of the
> hardware. Linux networks nicely ...

That's a good idea... might be worth a try

Mike.

-=JM=-
13-10-2002, 05:21 PM
What errors is the ping giving you.

I had a error code 65 once. It was due to vsmon running when I thought I'd disabled ZA.

Mike
13-10-2002, 06:37 PM
No error code - just "request timed out" - basically there was no answer.

No firewall running (not even the XP one).

Mike.

Kame
13-10-2002, 07:16 PM
Have you set up the users allowed to connect to the computer?

All the users on one computer have to be on the other one if you want them to be allowed to connect to one another.

If you're not getting a response from your NIC, try swapping it in another PCI slot and reinstalling it. If you still can't get a response you can switch it with the other computer and see if that computer has no problem with it. If it does... then it's most likely the NIC if it works... then you will have to figure out what is blocking is stopping it.

Mike
13-10-2002, 08:37 PM
> Have you set up the users allowed to connect to the
> computer?
> All the users on one computer have to be on the other
> one if you want them to be allowed to connect to one
> another.

Really??? I didn't know this :) even for admin users? (not logged in as admin, but using users with admin rights). They don't need to be logged in on the both though do they?

> If you're not getting a response from your NIC, try
> swapping it in another PCI slot and reinstalling it.

It's an onboard NIC, so can't put it in another slot... but we did reinstall drivers etc.

Mike.

~42~
13-10-2002, 11:34 PM
Sounds like a dodgy NIC to me, you might have to install another in a PCI slot just to prove it. NIC cards arwn't too expensive but it is a pain I know, sometimes you have to do it for your own piecw of mind.
i had a prob recently where pinging worked but couldn't browse the network shares, getting the subnetmask the same solbved the prob

the answer is ~42~