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Steve_L
10-10-2002, 07:31 AM
A friend works for a charitable organization with limited funding. She uses an old Win95 166 Mhz, for database and word processing - no internet, graphics, etc.

Problem: the registry has become corrupted to the point where it will not shut down. Hitting the Off button requires that when she turns on the computer the next day, she must wait for a long scandisk. Other problems are that when Win95 does finally boot up, Scan Disk and Defrag cannot be run (error message: not enough memory, even with 32Mb RAM and all programs closed down).

I have advised her to run the computer in Safe Mode. She has done this and manages to do her daily work inspite of large icons, etc. It does shut down and restart (to Safe Mode) OK.

Question: is there anything wrong with running the system like this, always in Safe Mode?

BTW, a 20 Gb HD has been added, and the computer repair shop said that they could not install Win98 and had to use Win95....sounds very strange to me - is this just double talk or legit?

Thanks - Steve

Steve_L
10-10-2002, 07:33 AM
Forgot to mention that I installed the Ultimate Boot Disk and tried to fix problems in DOS, but without any luck.

roofus
10-10-2002, 08:37 AM
Computers not shutting down correctly in win9x is a common problem.
Do a search on PressF1 for the problem, or goto microsofts knowledge Database (on their website). enter in computer not shutting down, or something along the likes of that.

When the computer is saying "not enough memmory" its not that she doesn't have enough memmory its that she doesn't have enough "resources" (microsoft like to confuse you). these out of memmory messages can not be cured by installing new ram.
However it was also possible that you were getting "out of memmory" messages because you don't have much RAM and your computer had been using the hard disk. Your hard disk got full and couldn't use it any more, hence it was out of memmory

What makes you think that the registry is corrupted?

There is nothing wrong with running the computer in safemode (its in its most stable environment) but doesn't have many features, and like you say has chunky icons and only 256 colours.

Yes it is true that win98 can not be installed on that computer, as it is too slow, and doesn't have enough memmory. Your present configuration is only just good enough to get away running win95. So win98 is definately out of the question.

I don't know if this is in win95 but try going to the "run" command under "Start" and type in Msconfig. Goto the startup tab, and remove any progs you believe should not be loading up.

roofus
10-10-2002, 08:39 AM
Also before anyone else says.
With the fact that this is a charitable organisation and hence doesn't hav big bucks, maybe you should look to using linux, it's free and many programmes for it are free.
However you will have to have reasonable computer knowledge to install it

Mike
10-10-2002, 10:07 AM
>>> limited funding. She uses an old Win95 166 Mhz, for

>>> message: not enough memory, even with 32Mb RAM and

>>> BTW, a 20 Gb HD has been added, and the computer
>>> repair shop said that they could not install Win98
>>> and had to use Win95....sounds very strange to me -
>>> is this just double talk or legit?

> Yes it is true that win98 can not be installed on
> that computer, as it is too slow, and doesn't have
> enough memmory. Your present configuration is only
> just good enough to get away running win95. So win98
> is definately out of the question.

I'm afraid you've been given [b]very[/i] incorrect information here, from both the shop and from the other reply. Windows 98 will run quite happily on your system, and probably even Windows ME. If the shop you've taken it to won't do it, then take it somewhere else - they were probably just trying to get you to buy a new machine.

In fact with a 20gb drive, you'll probably find it more convenient to run Windows 98 instead of Windows 95.

My father has an even lower spec'd machine (120Mhz with 24mb RAM) and runs Win 98 very smoothly, and surfs the net quite a lot too. There should be no problem installing it on your machine.

Mike.

Mike
10-10-2002, 10:11 AM
oops sorry - I forgot to turn off the bold :p

from the Microsoft website, here's the minimum specs required for installing Windows 98:

The following list describes the minimum hardware requirements for Windows 98:
A personal computer with a 486DX 66 megahertz (MHz) or faster processor (Pentium central processing unit recommended).
16 megabytes (MB) of memory (24 MB recommended)...

and for Win 98 SE:

Make sure that your computer is powerful enough. You'll need at least a 486DX or 66 megahertz (MHz) processor and 24 megabytes (MB) of RAM...

Mike.

roofus
10-10-2002, 11:27 AM
Pitifull reply Mike.
Sure you could try running win98 and ME, but you'd be an idiot to do so.
The extra overheads that win98 and ME bring, would cripple the system even further. Win 98 and ME would spaz out memory management wise as it would be constantly rearranging the swap disk with the RAM. So to mention that it would be fine to install these systems on that computer is just ridiculous.
Also you mention that your father runs an internet browser with just 24Mb of ram. gee that must be fun, IE itself uses about 9Mb of ram, let alone the overheads already taken for the OS. So to say it runs smoothly is a bit of #%$# (sure even if it only needs 16Mb to run)

I'm sorry that mike has tried to confuse you.
Often in the computer world, minimum specs are put on applications. However it is never advisable to run a programme, especially and OS, on minimum or near minimum specs. You would just get frustrated.
I feel mike had a need to reply to keep his # of posts up.

Mike
10-10-2002, 11:34 AM
> Pitifull reply Mike.

Get over yourself roofus. You're reply was quite incorrect, and your calling anyone who tries to run '98 on a "slow" system idiots is just insulting. Check your facts before you say that something just cannot be done, because in this case it definitely can be done, and quite comfortably. My father has absolutely no problems running his PC nor surfing the net, and I have used his connection myself and had no problems at all with it.

I have also had 98 running on my wife's computer with similar specs (until the hard drive crapped out) and never had any problems with that.

It's all well and good saying that I've "tried to confuse" but try to get your facts straight. I believe I have the knowledge and experience here to back me up.

Get it right Roofus, before sending people down the wrong track.

Mike.

SaAB
10-10-2002, 11:48 AM
Although I have run 98 on an even lower spec machine (p100) with 16MB of ram (believe it or not) it was extremely slow, win95 on the same machine runs faster (boot, aplication start, opening folders etc.) than win98 on a pentium 200 MMX with 96MB of ram this is personal experience although 98 is more stable, so I personally would recommend trying very hard to sort out win95 before resorting to upgrading to 98.

tweak\'e
10-10-2002, 12:35 PM
gee flames already ;-)

if they have "limited funding" why buy win98? win95 will do the job (and run quicker).

if tey are having to run in safe mode i suggest they find the problem and repair it. good time to do backups.

time for a cleanout and repair.

check what prgrams are running in the background?

Lohsing
10-10-2002, 01:11 PM
Hell, pay ME $50 and I'll re-install the PC for them... :D

Actually have to agree that while it IS possible to run Win ME on something this slow, it would probably take a while to run anything, etc. Win 95 should be fine.

And I also do agree that only meeting minimum specs is not really good enough to run certain software... Pay for peanuts, and expect a monkey of a PC.

Lo.

roofus
10-10-2002, 02:24 PM
Got over yourself mike?
I am well aware of the specs of windows. I said that you couldn't install win98 on that spec machine for a reason. That reason being that it is idiotic to do so, and would just slow down the system even more. (hence why sometimes technicians just say you can't do things, when really you can but its not worth the hassle, i took that approach in this case) Why confuse with tecnicall aspects?

Anyway as has been pointed out by the other replies, it is not advisable to stick another OS on over that type of machine.

Think i might go play UT2003 at 1024 x 768, detail settings set to the highest, on my computer with a CPU=400mhz, onboard 8MB video card, ........................ Why not, its possible................... yes but thats right mike, its not very advisable. Unless you like a FPS of about 0.5

Chris Randal
10-10-2002, 02:39 PM
I've got 98SE running on a Pentium 150 with 32mb of RAM with no problems whatsoever.

My 4 year old can even play his Hi5 and Pooh maths games with no problems as well.

Perhaps Roofus should refer to the "Ground rules" post from Bruce Buckman.......

Lohsing
10-10-2002, 02:41 PM
Yes, but what comparison can you make? Do you know the performance difference between that machine, and something higher spec?

Although I do take your point regarding the "etiquette" posting earlier...

Lo.

roofus
10-10-2002, 03:04 PM
Sorry Mike for calling you and your dad idiots.

Susan B
10-10-2002, 04:16 PM
For what it is worth, I would like to endorse what tweak'e has advised. That is, save money by sticking with Win 95, backup all the organisation's files and reformat the PC. With a bit of luck the problems will disappear and the machine will run faster and sweeter because of it.

At work we have a machine with identical specs and I have found that it sometimes runs noticeably faster than my PII 266 with 160MB RAM on Win 98. Mostly when opening files, programs and using Win Explorer rather than when using programs.

Steve_L
10-10-2002, 09:47 PM
Great response - thanks much. At this stage I will advise my friend to get the HD reformatted and to reinstall Win95, but she thinks a Win98 disk may appear ;)

Actually she told me that when shutting down today, it did shut down properly, and not from Safe Mode. All was OK in Safe Mode until they noticed some key buttons missing in their data base - thus having to boot to full Win95.

The other idea mentioned at work was trying to put on an old program of Norton Systems Works, to try and fix Win95, then scan and defrag. Not sure - should be last ditch attemp I reckon since it could very well bugger the whole system.

Not sure why the shop would not install Win98, but it was not to sell them a new computer.......ha ha ......you won't believe it but she said they were never charged for the new 20Gb HD...! BTW, there are two other newer computers in the same office - one I would love to have, new from PB Technologies. Her old one is mainly for data entry using one MS-Access based program, and occasional word processing.

Lastly, I did check that all other programs were shut down, to conserve resources. Getting the error message has to be an error itself, or an indication of corruption. With 32 Mb there should be enough to scan or defrag, with all other programs closed.

Again, thanks for the replies. Shame that there are a few flames: read the Ground Rules!