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Sam H
05-08-2002, 11:18 PM
What would be a good average ground noise level?

Telecom said I had a level of 58 which was normal.

godfather
05-08-2002, 11:23 PM
> What would be a good average ground noise level?
>
> Telecom said I had a level of 58 which was normal.
>

you might want to qualify what you mean...the ground here is very quiet, it has only a few earthworms stirring.

do you mean background noise on a phone line? and are you talking dB, and is that dB log10 or just dB??

Heather P
05-08-2002, 11:29 PM
Well if you are winding up the stereo - the maximum permitted noise at your boundary is something in the region of 40dBA. The exact figure - so I'm told - is in the Resource Management Act somewhere.

I don't think it specifies whether you have to be lying on the ground or half way up a ladder at the boundary though....

godfather
05-08-2002, 11:32 PM
remind me never to live nextdoor to you Heather......

Heather P
05-08-2002, 11:37 PM
Well, when I was Auckland Tech for a firm hiring out jukeboxes.... never had the neighbours complain. Mind you, I never actually took a jukebox half way up a ladder on the boundary....

resol
06-08-2002, 12:51 AM
Ground noise
0 to 40dB ok
40 to 65 marginal
65 + noisy

resol
06-08-2002, 01:12 AM
58 dB is ok if you have a "good" modem , a good modem will ignore noise, are you having internet problems.

Graham L
06-08-2002, 03:53 PM
?:| All wrong. :-(

What Telecom mean is "dBm". They didn't come to your place with a sound level meter. They put a meter on your telephone line. dBm dB relative to 1 mW in 600 ohm. It will be actually -58 dB. (because you certainly haven't got 770kV rms on your telephone line).

1mW in 600 ohms is 0.77 Vrms. -58dBm is (close enough to) -60dBm. That is, one millionth of 0.77 V rms of "noise" on your telephone line. The maximum power allowed from your modem is -6dBm (or -10? --- it's a while since I've looked at the figures). That's about 0.33 Vrms.

You have a pretty good signal/noise ratio. ;-)

Sam H
06-08-2002, 04:28 PM
Thanks Graham and all the rest.

Susan B
06-08-2002, 05:24 PM
OMG Graham! :O

Did you sit there and quote all that from the top of your head, as usual??!

Poppa John
06-08-2002, 06:33 PM
Graham L. Is a certain woman questioning the Brain of a superior, handsome, intelligent, generous & hardworking Male (as we all are!!) ?
How dare she!!!! :O . Oh I forgot, & modest as well. Hiding under the bed away from Susan B Poppa John ]:) ]:)

Graham L
06-08-2002, 06:50 PM
I don't think she was getting stroppy, Poppa.:D

Of course it was off the top of my head; you can tell by what I left out. It wasn't just any old voltmeter that Telecom use to make the measurements; the proper instrument is a psophometer . How's that for a word? B-)

If you want to look up the specifications, the PTCs (http://www.telepermit.co.nz/PtcSpecs.html) are here.

Have a look at the allowed levels between 300 Hz and 3400 Hz (Fig 4 of PTC 102), and wonder how you get 56kB/s ever with a modem. As I have said a few times, it's magic.

Graham Petrie
06-08-2002, 07:01 PM
By the way Heather, RMA is incorrect - you would find the max noise level at your boundary would be indicated in your District Plan under zoning regulations.

There is the added complication of tonal noise. You may be breaching the district plan AND the RMA if you are conducting an activity that (although below dB levels) is negatively affecting your neighbours "quiet enjoyment" of their property because of the particular frequency f the noise - although they would find this difficult to prove and thus difficult to have anything done about it. A common example of this is the noisy party which is not breaching noise level regulations, but is still annoying the neighbours through the constant throb of the bass. There is not much they can do about it.

Sorry totally irrelevant to the original thread.

G P - final year uni student conversant with the RMA 1991

-=JM=-
06-08-2002, 07:18 PM
>and wonder how you get 56kB/s ever with a modem. As I have said a >few times, it's magic.

that would with something along the lines of Phase-Shift Keying (PSK) and Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM) ;)

Graham L
06-08-2002, 07:25 PM
That what I said . Magic. ]:)

Heather P
06-08-2002, 11:59 PM
Graham,

I rather think that you will find that District Plans are not allowed to over rule the requirements of the RMA.

Graham Petrie
07-08-2002, 12:41 AM
That wasn't my point, my point was that the regulations aren't found in the RMA, but in district plans. There is no section in the RMA dealing with noise.

Sections 1-3 deal with interpretation, s5-8 with purpose and principles, s9-17 duties and restrictions...

s9(1)No Person may use any land in a manner that contravenes a rule in a district plan or proposed district plan...

If it wasn't for the RMA, District Plans wouldn't exist. The RMA gives district plans statutory authority. There were district plans under the old Town and Country Planning Act 1977, (replaced with the RMA), but these old plans were supposed to be replaced with new plans under the RMA. This has not happened entirely yet which is why some regions have two district plans. The original,m and the proposed district plan under the RMA. Both cary some weight.

There are no specific rules about noise in the RMA. This is left to be stated in District Plans.

The RMA deals with sastainable management through the avoidance, remedying or mitigation of adverse environmental effects. No specific effects are mentioned. Noise is an effect. If it can be proven as an adverse effect that is not minor then it must be avoided, mitigated or remedied, or consent will not be granted for the activity creating the noise.

If you want some info, I can point you to the correct sources. I am a little hesitant about posting this as I don't want to hijack this thread, or incite debate.

If you are genuinely interested over and above just general info send me an email to gwpetrie @ varsity dot co dot nz (my spam catcher) and I will be happy to blither on for pages.

Sorry Sam H.

G P

Graham Petrie
07-08-2002, 12:54 AM
Ooops, rereading this I noticd a slight misinterpretation (the way I wrote it). When I said no section dealing with noise I meant specific noise levels.

The RMA does have a section pertaining to noise (s16), but no levels are mentioned. It just states that noise is not permitted to "exceed a reasonable level." {end of s16(1)}

s16(2) Subsection (1) does not limit the right of any local authority or
consent authority to prescribe noise emission standards in plans...

The full text is available somewhere on the Ministry for The Environment website (http://www.mfe.govt.nz)

G P