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Susan B
01-08-2002, 04:01 PM
I'm looking at buying a 17" monitor but there is pressure on me to go for a 19" one.

A 17" flat screen Phillips is $420 and a 19" non-flat screen Phillips is $525 so the price difference isn't too bad.

What I'm concerned about is the size of the thing. I saw my first 19" last week and thought it was a bit too monstrous but The Girl loved her uncle's one and thinks we should go that way.

We aren't into games big time and although I do a bit of fiddling with graphics, not seriously. The most important thing is being easy on the eyes.

So, will I regret not going for the 19" or are the benefits not worth the sacrifice of desk space? All thoughts appreciated. :-)

godfather
01-08-2002, 04:27 PM
Measure the Viewable Area (corner to corner of the screen you can see)

See if you are getting significant more real estate.

I used to use a 21" monitor, and it was all you could do to lift it plus it was $2400. Wasnt any room on the desk for anything else.

But I suppose you need to consider your advancing years, and diminishing eyesight.....

I think I would go for the flat tube ahead of non-flat though.

Baldy
01-08-2002, 04:44 PM
Hi Susan,

If it is just for everyday stuff, go with the 17" one and go treat yourself to something nice with the extra $100.......

I have a 17" monitor and its just dandy. Hardly ever have to hold my glasses away from eyes like a magnifying glass.

BALDY :^)

Terry Porritt
01-08-2002, 05:36 PM
Another thing to consider Susan, is whether it's better to spend a bit more on a finer dot pitch 17" and get a sharper picture, or only a little more than that on a 19" with .27mm or so dot pitch which wont have such a sharp picture and may look a bit grainy.

Perhaps you can get to see several monitors running side by side, its the only way to compare really.

Sam H
01-08-2002, 06:04 PM
I'm with Terry and Baldy on this one, scrap the idea of a 19" and go with the best 17" you can find.

Mike
01-08-2002, 07:02 PM
I've got a nice 15" here you could have for, say, the price of a new 17" :)

Mike.

Poppa John
01-08-2002, 07:20 PM
Mike. A woman she is, Stupid she's not. Good try tho!!! Poppa John :D :D

Poppa John
01-08-2002, 07:20 PM
Mike. A woman she is, Stupid she's not. Good try tho!!! Poppa John :D :D

Mike
01-08-2002, 07:23 PM
> Mike. A woman she is, Stupid she's not. Good try
> tho!!! Poppa John :D :D

well... we don't know that for sure just yet :D

how about TWO 15" screens for the price of a new 17"?

Mike.

Poppa John
01-08-2002, 07:24 PM
Susan B is not, but I am. Double Post, Sorry. That Alchemy thingy kicked in again. Blushing Poppa John :8}

Mike
01-08-2002, 07:24 PM
hmmm... another doubt post... <gulp>

<screams>no it's starting againnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike.

Poppa John
01-08-2002, 07:29 PM
Mike. I await with interest to see Susan's reply to you. Boy, are you asking for an earful!!! Laughing Poppa John:D :D

Mike
01-08-2002, 07:32 PM
> Mike. I await with interest to see Susan's reply to
> you. Boy, are you asking for an earful!!! Laughing
> Poppa John:D :D

well I tried in vain to get one of those games on offer from PressF1, so maybe an earful is the only thing I'm gonna get :)

Mike.

Poppa John
01-08-2002, 07:36 PM
Wouldn't it be nice if IDG/PressF1 were to "Shout" Susan B one of the Phillips Monitors advertised on this Forum. Or perhaps Phillips themselves if they are watching? Wishful Thinking Poppa John :) :)

superOman
01-08-2002, 07:38 PM
Id go for the 19inch. Everything is always advancing so you may get left behind. If I had the choice id get a new graphics card and connect to monitors to it. I do a lot of graphics and 1 monitor is not enough. Would anyone like to donate me a graphics card and another monitor?

Abdul
01-08-2002, 07:43 PM
My choice = 17in
BUT get the best image you can :-
Dot pitch - lowest possible but check you are comparing horizontal with horizontal and diagonal with diagonal etc etc
Refresh rate - should be at least 85Hz to be flicker free
Brightness - look for one that YOU would set the brightness control at a low setting allowing for maximum later cranking up
Be happy with the weight AND the depth of the physical item - check to see if the cables exit and can bend away BEFORE the back of the casing so as to further minimise the actual depth
Warranty - no. years, on-site or RTB, who performs the warranty service etc
etc
Let me know what you find 'cause I'm also on the market ....
The Samsung 753DFX DynaFlatX looks like good specs at $458 from NFC in Newmarket but I've yet to actually SEE one going (Noel Leemings don't have one running even though they have them on promotion at the moment !!!!?)

-=JM=-
01-08-2002, 09:00 PM
Have a read of KingJackal's Monitor Guide (http://www.radiativenz.com/guides/monitorguide/index.shtml). He is really into his monitors and has sampled a large amount.

He's got a 19" ViewSonic (not a flatscreen) and says he would happily swap it for a really good 17".

Just don't go overboard though. Because a lot of monitors are not worth the extra money compared to cheaper ones.

tweak\'e
01-08-2002, 09:33 PM
oioioioi i have a 19" veiwsonic (nonflat) and i beats my old flatscreen 17"(ibm) anyday. as men always say SIZE MATTERS ! !

its just so much nicer having a larger screen, not haveing to scroll so much and so much easier on the eyes.

Susan B
01-08-2002, 09:44 PM
Thank you for all the feedback, I think I've got enough support to back me on getting the 17". Won't have to start chopping the shelves up for it to fit.

Mike: Thanks for the offer of the 15" but I've already got two of those. But sorry, I'm not blonde (damn, now godfather will know!).

The Phillips 107T that I looked at the other day was quite good and other people here have been pleased with theirs.

Regarding refresh rates, which is better:
71 kHz offering a maximum resolution of 1280 x 1024 with flicker free display of 1024x768 at up to 89 Hz
or
a maximum resolution of 1280 x 1024 at 66Hz flicker-free refresh rate, 1280 x 1024 @ 66Hz, 1024 x 768 @ 87Hz?

JM: Thanks for the link, you gave it to me a few weeks ago and I found it useful then. Very interested to hear about KJ's preference for the 17", it doesn't say that anywhere on those pages.


tweak'e: No need to boast about how big yours is here, you'll make them all feel inferior. ;-) I know bigger is better but it still has to fit and I'm quite partial to my shelves.

Anything will be better than what I've got now.

Mike
01-08-2002, 09:50 PM
> Regarding refresh rates, which is better:
> 71 kHz offering a maximum resolution of 1280 x 1024
> with flicker free display of 1024x768 at up to 89 Hz
> or
> a maximum resolution of 1280 x 1024 at 66Hz
> flicker-free refresh rate, 1280 x 1024 @ 66Hz, 1024 x
> 768 @ 87Hz?

personally I wouldn't go for anything under 75hz... 66hz may say flicker free, but you'll still notice it. But then again, you need a higher res at 17", so who really knows. I run my 15" at 1024x768 and at 80hz... anything under 70hz really hurts (ROFL) :D

Mike.

-=JM=-
01-08-2002, 10:07 PM
Susan: Well I would give you a link to where KJ has said something along the lines of that. But the freaking server died (again) at OCNZ. So the forums are down. :(

Mike: I totally agree. Anything below 75Hz is not very nice. I'm currenty running 85Hz here.

Steve Askew
01-08-2002, 10:10 PM
Since november Ive had 3 x 19"proview monitors(I bought 1 & kept taking it back for replacement) & I took them back because I wasnt happy with the picture,I ran a monitor test program & when I displayed a red picture it had blueish looking blotchs on it.
In the end I paid a few more dollars & got a philips 109s lightframe 2.
& Im not very happy with the picture on the philips either. (looks like the proviews Ive had)
Hmmmmm looks like another trip back to the dealer soon.

cheers Steve

Susan B
01-08-2002, 10:22 PM
No worries JM, I'll take your word for it.

I've no intention of running a monitor at those top resolutions, it was just to demonstrate a comparison. My 15" monitor is run at 800 x 600 (don't know what refresh rate ) so I'd probably go for the next one up on a 17" - 1024x768? That's at up to 89 Hz on the Phillips, which is quite good, isn't it? It looked OK in the shop.

tweak\'e
01-08-2002, 10:22 PM
>70hz really hurts

groan ;-)

>I run my 15" at 1024x768

how the hell do you see anything? i run mine at that, tho refresh rate is a very nice 100hz.

75 is bareable. 60 just makes my eyes water, 85 is good and 100 marginally better :)

SUSAN just remember the monitor is the least upgraded part and the most expencive. get a good one.

Susan B
01-08-2002, 10:29 PM
That's what I'm trying to do tweak'e. ;-)

I know you've got a bee in your bonnet about Phillips, but you can't really fault their 107T can you? I can't find anything else better than that in a 17" that I can actually look at in a shop.

tweak\'e
01-08-2002, 10:36 PM
lol susan....i love them so much <puke> lol

if the money is minimal i would go 19". philips should still be ok. i don't here about to many faults with them concidering the amount of them that are out in the field.

Greg S
02-08-2002, 10:24 AM
Actually it's the girls that say size matters :). We in the Know It All World say power matters too. (Go Tim! ArrrrHoooghhhh)

"yeah go Greg"

Oops - that was from the other half! lol

Regarding the monitor - my 'pence worth is.. go for 17 - better quality vision at less desk space for the price - the Phillips 107T is what I'm picking up next Saturday - it's got great specs, small small desktop footprint, great support, as well as low price (below 400.00 incl) I'm an avid puter gamer, graphics player as well as square eyed F1 user.

codegirl
02-08-2002, 10:45 AM
(Sorry to butt in on your thread Susan B, but you may be interested in this)

Speaking of Philips monitors, I have the Philips 17" (107S) and it interferes with our television reception - causes fast repeating wavey lines across the screen - has anyone ever come across this problem??
My monitor is a couple of rooms away from where both the tv and the aerial are. I am positive is it the monitor causing this as when I turn the power button off/on the lines disappear/reappear!

godfather
02-08-2002, 10:54 AM
It could well be the monitor, but the fault lies with the TV system, in that it indicates you do not have a suitable aerial or have a marginal signal in your area.

If you are using an indoor aerial, then an external one would cure it.

As an aside, it never ceases to amaze me that most people will spend often thousands on a television system and refuse to give it a proper signal..like buying a Mercedes and running it on kerosine. It will go, but not as well as it was meant to....

codegirl
02-08-2002, 10:57 AM
Thanks for the fast reply godfather :-)

We do have an external aerial, but you are right it could possibly be to do with the aerial/signal.
Thanks!

Mike
02-08-2002, 11:37 AM
> It could well be the monitor, but the fault lies with
> the TV system, in that it indicates you do not have a
> suitable aerial or have a marginal signal in your
> area.

not always, godfather. Had this problem once a while ago, and talked to many people about it, and it turned out to be the monitor causing the problem, but something to do with being on the same power circuit or something - bought a fairly cheap filter that we plugged into the power socket that fed to the monitor, and the problems went away pretty quick.

That said, you are probably right on this one, GF, as this was quite a while ago (think 10 years+) and it could have just been how they made monitors back then.

Mike.

kiwibeat
14-08-2002, 02:11 AM
The larger the better though it all depends on your budget I have a !9" H/P which was very good but have moved up to a 21" flat screen CRT monitor which is brilliant Diamond View weighs about 30kilos and takes up lots of desk space but great on my eyes I run it at 1024x768 at 85hertz

Mike
14-08-2002, 08:56 AM
> up lots of desk space but great on my eyes I run it
> at 1024x768 at 85hertz

Why only 1024x768? I run that on both my 15" screens - if I had a much bigger screen I'd have the resolution even higher.

Mike.

markOS X
14-08-2002, 09:37 AM
Susan,

I don't think anyone has mentioned here, but if your graphics card isn't up to spec, you'll have a hard time getting good resolution/refresh rates on these sorts of screens.
I'm not a graphics card kingpin, so I can't quote figures, but this is something you may need to take into consideration.

(assuming you haven't already purchased the screen... :-))


HTH,
markOS X

Crunn
14-08-2002, 12:22 PM
Go for the best QUALITY the money will stretch to. With quality will come all the other bells and whistles. If you go from a good 17 to a cheap bad 19 you will be real mad. Lastly, go to the shop, look at the monitor working and buy THAT one which may well have been tweaked out back !! Been caught that way several times. Currently have a Phillips 109P up from a Viewsonic PF775 both excellent, the 19 is 1/2 inch shorter than the 17 and I would not swap that extra screen real estate for anything (well, maybe the winning Lotto numbers)

Crunn

Susan B
14-08-2002, 05:19 PM
Well I'm pleased to say that I got the Phillips 107T monitor and am pretty happy with it.

You might be right about my graphics card not being up to scratch though Mark, because I do find it pretty grainy with light colours on the screen, particularly around the left and right edges. I'm going to check out the shop monitors to see if they are the same or whether it is a cunning shop ploy to have their displays on dark colours to show them at an advantage. It never occured to me to check out the monitors with light background images.

It has no discernable flicker though and I love having more room on screen. One thing I must spend some time doing is fiddle with the display controls to set the desktop in the right place. If anyone has one of these monitors I'd really appreciate knowing their settings so that I can try them out. The factory settings aren't the best.

The other thing I miss is our sound. The older Phillips 15" monitor had built-in speakers and the speakers that I've pinched from the 486 won't work properly on this machine - you can hardly hear anything even with all the settings on max. Don't know what to do to fix that, I think I've tried everything, including changing the sound setting from monitor to "stereo".

Baldy
14-08-2002, 05:31 PM
If you are after some speakers Susan, check out the new TDK Tremors.

Susan B
14-08-2002, 05:36 PM
Thanks Baldy, I'll do that for the new PC. At the moment though, I'm more concerned with why I can't get sound on this machine whereas I could with the other one with the same speakers.

-=JM=-
14-08-2002, 06:08 PM
Have you turned the volume on the speakers, soundcard and windows up.

Speakers plugged in.

tweak\'e
14-08-2002, 06:47 PM
the speakers prberly don't have an amp bulit into them like most do today.

check the sound card, some have an option of different outputs (the terms elude me at the mo) one is normal unamped output, the other uses the soundcards amp.

Bazza
14-08-2002, 08:58 PM
Hi Susan:
Glad to learn you have the monitor sorted. As to the sound, here's an idea. It worked for me.

I guess you have checked the Vol control ,Play control settings to enable the speaker output, for the inputs you are using.

There are many pc speaker options to choose. A year or two, after using some pc speakers, I realised I had a Mini Stereo that could be used for the pc sound. It works fine, great sound. Surround speakers & subwoofer.. As long as the stereo has a line input, you can connect the pc soundcard to the stereo input.


Especially if the pc is in the living room, then the stereo can be used for pc sound, radio FM & AM, playing CD's, & recording to tape, even from the pc sound source. Very versatile. It's a good idea, especially if you have a spare mini stereo, or can get one at a reasonable price from, say Trademe.. some good buys there for Sony,Aiwa,Panasonic..etc..

Bazza
14-08-2002, 09:02 PM
In addition, it's even better to play all those MP3's you've been getting. Fantastic sound..

Susan B
14-08-2002, 09:54 PM
You guys are really gonna crack up at this, but remember that they're circa 1994: the speakers are Creative Sound Blaster SBS30 models with no volume control on them. <puts hands over ears to block out howling>

So, I can't turn them up. Volume is on max in the speaker icon in the task tray. Sound properties are all on max. I'm not sure how to check tweak'e's suggestion, though I've been all over the sound properties in Control Panel as well.

I like your suggestion Bazza. We've got a "ghetto blaster" a few feet away but it would be awkward to bring it closer to the PC. I could run a cable to it and keep my fingers crossed that it doesn't get tripped over but it would have to be unplugged each time the PC is not being used. Dumb question I know, but what cable do I look for to hook it up to the PC? Hubby would probably know anyway. I don't suppose any of the playstation cables would do the job?

tweak\'e
14-08-2002, 10:47 PM
some sound cards have 2 diff output jacks or have a look on the sound card itself for any jumbers (and writing to say what the jumbers are for).

Bazza
14-08-2002, 11:15 PM
Hi Susan:
Not a dumb question at all.. The cable you will need is:

stereo mini 3.5mm plug which inserts into the soundcard line output, and at the other end to the line input of the 'getto blaster' which is likely to be two RCA plugs being L & R audio connections. If you search, a long cable can be procured to enable a convenient connection.

I have the same arrangement for inputs & outputs from pc to stereo/video, a distance of about 6 metres.. Jolly usefull for copying/playing & burning CD's from TV/stereo/video

Good luck..Bazza

DangerousDave
15-08-2002, 12:11 PM
wahoo, i'm getting a AOC 19" flat soon, can't wait, my mate has one and it is really good quality, i would've nicked off with it if it wasn't so damn big'n'heavy ;)
- David

Graham L
15-08-2002, 03:12 PM
Why mess about with this small stuff? I've just looked at the Harvey Norman letterbox stuffer. How about a 50" plasma television ("PC input to true XGA") -- only $29999 with a Receiver/tuner thrown in.
Or if you can bear only 42" and only VGA/SVGA, $14999.

I think I might get two, so I can have a dual monitor system. ;-)

Or not.

godfather
15-08-2002, 03:25 PM
XGA on a monitor that size would have "pixels" the size of your fingernail...OK if you are 50 m away with the keyboard.

Saw it as well Graham, also the 15" dual TV/LCD - wondered when these would emerge.

I run 2 - 15" LCD here and find the sizes good, equivalent to 17" CRT

Susan B
15-08-2002, 08:06 PM
> XGA on a monitor that size would have "pixels" the
> size of your fingernail...OK if you are 50 m away
> with the keyboard.

Really? :O

Bugger, I'll have to cancel my order first thing tomorrow morning now...

antmannz
15-08-2002, 08:15 PM
Surely not .... just knock a hole in the wall and get very long keyboard & mouse cables. :)

Susan B
15-08-2002, 08:22 PM
Hmmm, that may be a possible solution antmannz. How far do those infrared keyboards and mouses go? 50m?

<gets tape and measures length of house>

Oops, might have to sit in the neighbour across the road's lounge...

DangerousDave
16-08-2002, 12:48 PM
how bout get that triple monitor graphics card and have three of 'em in panoramic display :D that'll put you back about $800000 but hey 3 50" plasmas would be good for playing jedi knight ;) you would be the coolest guy in the geek world :D
lol
- David

Greg S
18-08-2002, 04:56 PM
Hi. I just picked up my 107T yesterday, and am now enjoying lovely crisp flicker-free images at 85hz. But you're right - my defaults were quite out as well. If you haven't sorted it by now, what I found easiest was to set equal vertical and horizontal distances while retaining a smaller sized view area. Then I adjusted the sides via pincushion et al. Finally I got the max view area by using the zoom control, instead of the horizontal and vertical spacing.

If you find the adjusters too difficult to correct, there are some third party software utilities that can do the job - used to be one on Fileworld a few years ago.

Tomorrow I pick up my fantabulous TDK Tremor S150 speakers! Only $277.00 inclusive! *smiles for miles* Audio heaven is about to walk in my door!

Susan B
18-08-2002, 05:10 PM
Good one Greg.

I haven't "got around" to fiddling yet, I'm so slack. I don't suppose you'd like to post your numbers for me to try them, would you?

Ta! :-)

Greg S
19-08-2002, 07:27 PM
With pleasure. However bear in mind that all these units are unique, and that the defaults may have been set differently (via the vendors). Also the fact that I view mine thru a Glare Guard, as well as that I changed my settings from default without reference to resizing the display area, then zoomed it, which auto-set some of these figures - but they may be worth a try:

Horizontal position: 20
Size: 67
Vertical Position: 47
Size: 58
Side curve Pin: 52
Bal: 52
Side angle Trap: 32
Parra: 47
Rotate:61

Hope it helps!

Susan B
19-08-2002, 09:05 PM
Thanks Greg. I tried your settings and you are so right - the units are all unique LOL.

With your horizontal setting my desktop was way off to the left as the biggest difference, and the other settings were a bit wonky for me as well.

It's really really hard to get it "just right" for as soon as you adjust one setting you have to go and adjust another. Oh well, it's not that critical, but being a bit of a perfectionist it's hard to settle for less than 99%. :D

Thanks anyway, it was appreciated.

-=JM=-
19-08-2002, 10:03 PM
I know what you mean Susan they're horrible to set up how you want.

Alan Carpenter
19-08-2002, 11:26 PM
Volume is on max in the speaker icon in the task tray

You have double-clicked the speaker icon to check that all the appropriate volume levels are at max?

Cheers,
Alan Carpenter