View Full Version : Updating website - permission denied

Susan B
20-07-2002, 09:41 AM
For some reason I can no longer update my Orcon website. One minute it worked, the next it didn't.

Using WS-FTP LE I keep getting the "550 Permission denied" message whenever I want to transfer a file or delete one. I can get all the files in the directories visible but just can't do anything with them.

Does anyone know why?

It's a free account so support isn't available from Orcon. I thought it might be because the website was busy but have tried at all hours of the day and night with no result. Other accounts work fine.

20-07-2002, 09:56 AM
> It's a free account so support isn't available from
> Orcon. I thought it might be because the website was
> busy but have tried at all hours of the day and night
> with no result. Other accounts work fine.

Susan, I was wondering whether since you moved Candy to a new page you're able to access your ftp again?


Greg S
20-07-2002, 10:10 AM
Hi. In my experience (albeit a couple of years ago) the helpdesk were particularly helpful, despite my only using, at the time, a free hosting account. It may be worth while phoning them to simply ask if their host server is experiencing any temporary issues.

Incidentally, I know their server appears to have difficulty managing .htaccess scripts - have you installed password protection on any of the pages recently? If so you may need to check your scripts. To view the hidden files on the server, in WS_FTP type -al into the File Mask box (underneath MkDir on the Remote Site) and click Refresh. If you haven't done password protection ignore the above.

20-07-2002, 10:12 AM
Check your directory permissions (Dirinfo Button), and make sure you still own the directory(s) and have rwx permissions e.g.:

drwxr-xr-x 3 joe90 root 4096 Apr 23 08:04 htdocs

Although it sounds odd for the ownership/permissions to be changed, I have seen a new account on, that was not granted ownership.

Heather P
20-07-2002, 11:17 AM
One possibility is that they have temporarily run out of room.

A few years back ihug were issuing 5Mb space with all flat rate accounts. This didn't mean that for every 1,000 customers there was 5,000Mb space available as few people used their full allocation so why have it lurking around spare? There must have been a sudden rush that caught them unawares (a spot of bad planning but it happens). Within a few days they upgraded.

If you haven't been tampering with firewalls or the FTP program - check with Orcon.

On firewalls - yesterday I added a new one and FTP refused to connect. It was a setting on WS-FTP that needed changing.

20-07-2002, 01:46 PM
My site is transferring ok now, and I am using WS-FTP LE too - I suppose your's is as well by now.:)

Susan B
20-07-2002, 02:33 PM
Thank you for the replies.

Mike: Unfortunately, no I'm not able to access my other site again. The new page is under a totally different account. I was going to put it on another page anyway but was forced to do it sooner than I planned.

Greg: I'll see how I go and may try giving the helpdesk a call if all else fails. I haven't installed password protection on my pages but your advice may come in handy another day if I need to.

Heather: Haven't been tampering with my firewall and think I haven't fiddled with the FTP program. My other accounts work and I can't see any difference between them in the program.

wuppo: Do all the files need to have "drwxr-" in them? Some of my files don't, as follows:

drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jul 18 22:54 candy
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 28 10:37 graphics
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4007 Jun 28 10:39 index.html
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 50352 Jun 19 12:31 mydesktop.jpg
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 28 10:36 other
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2803 Jun 21 11:14 wertilea.jpg

As you can see, three don't have the 'd' at the beginning. Is this the problem? Unfortunately that information doesn't mean anything to me. In those three folders: candy, graphics and other, all the files in there are like this:

-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5813 Jun 19 12:41 susan.jpg

with no 'd' at the beginning. That must ring a bell, surely? But why is it like that?

One possibility is the fact that I tried adding another webpage (1B) to my account (1A). It isn't all that straightforward a procedure and it looked like it didn't work. I then tried making another separate account (2A) with the same name but got the "this name already exists, you can't have it". When I looked in 1A again there was the new page 1B, and it worked.

It was not long after that 1A stopped giving me permission to change things. It must be related but I don't see how, because you are supposed to be able to have a few websites on one account.

I tried deleting 1B but apparently they only delete pages once a month so it's stuck there until whenever that is. But I can still use it at the moment.

What a mess! Anyone got any more ideas, please?

Graham L
20-07-2002, 04:03 PM
Well, in that permissions string:" drwxr-xr-x", d=directory. Then, in each group of three, r=read, w=write,x=execute, -=no. The first group of three is the "owner" set, the others are "group", and "world". That is, you can do anything; everyone else can read your files and directories,, not write to them, and execute files or directories. (You "execute" a directory when you use it to access a file in it. I'ts possible to set things so that a directory is "--x" to other people, so that they can't see what's in the directory, but they can access a file if they know exactly where it is.) If a string hasn't got the "d", it belongs to a file.

It's all very logical. Unix is like that. ]:)

Susan B
20-07-2002, 04:19 PM
Ahh, so that's what the magic letters mean. Thanks Graham. :-)

And yes, it is Unix, something I know nothing about unfortunately.

I've discovered that the rogue website directory 1A is missing a line like this:

-rwxr-xr-x 1 thisname nogroup 20652 Jul 19 21:06 index.html

that the "good" sites have in one directory or another. The key word being "nogroup". Any ideas as to the signficance of that? They aren't all necessarily .html files.

20-07-2002, 04:31 PM
Hi Susan B,

I have recently built( or am building), a website at Orcon and
am using the same FTP app as you.

After reading your post I tried and was successful in uploading a couple of files!

Sorry this doesn't answer your problem other than to confirm that both
FTP client and Site are normal.


Graham L
20-07-2002, 04:37 PM
Well, that is not actually "missing". Each of those lines is a directory entry. There isn't one ending with "index.htm" because you don't have a file called "index.htm" in that directory. ;-)

The structure of the line is: permissions, "1" = the number of links to the object (you can have multiple links (aliases) for one object), owner, group, size, creation date+time, and file/directory name. The owner is your username, the group doesn't matter at all here : a web site needs full rights for the owner, and suitable "world" rights.

Normally, the permissions inside the directory are the same as those of the directory itself. You haven't been able to write to it because of the permissions on the directory, so it might still belong to "root", or they might have not given it the "755" permissions. (That's the other way to specify them - octal notation).

20-07-2002, 04:39 PM
The problem is that your directorys are owned by 'root'

drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jul 18 22:54 candy

and as such, you don't have permission to transfer files into them

they should read something like

drwxr-xr-x 2 candy root 4096 Jul 18 22:54 candy

if 'candy' was the user ID for the site.

Give the helpdesk a tuneup.

20-07-2002, 04:45 PM
In fact your files are also owned by root. (Which is why you can't delete them). Your user id should be the first of the two names in each of the directory listing lines.

Graham L
20-07-2002, 04:48 PM
Damn: was focussing on the "d" the first time, then looking at the non-existent directory entry the second time. :_| Ah well, we got there in the end. :-)

Susan B
20-07-2002, 05:00 PM
Yes, I was comparing your info with mine, wuppo and could see there was a difference.

OK, I'll look up the helpdesk number and give them a call.

Thank you for your help, both of you. :-)

Heather P
20-07-2002, 09:33 PM

Remember a few weeks back there was a post
http://pressf1.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=21645&start=15&msRange=15 on permissions with FTP?

Problem there was trying to load folders into the root directory.

If you're still having problems it may help to reread it.


Susan B
20-07-2002, 09:56 PM
Thanks for that Heather. I had a look at the Ipswich site, which looks very useful, and it just confirms what wuppo said.

I'm not doing anything different to previously and all the website files are visible in the right-hand pane - I just can't do anything with them. Adding another site to my account must have stuffed things up somehow.

I've sent Orcon another email and if they haven't replied by Monday after work I'll phone them up.

Heather P
20-07-2002, 10:03 PM
One further thought... do you have a size limit on your site? Have you reached it?

Susan B
20-07-2002, 10:15 PM
Yup, there's a 10MB size limit and I have used a grand total of 0.36MB so far.

I'd be in a bit of trouble if I had filled my quota, wouldn't I? Not even able to delete anything LOL.

Heather P
20-07-2002, 10:27 PM
0.36 out of 10Mb. You're pushing the limits are a bit aren't you?

Heather P
20-07-2002, 10:28 PM
Dearest Susan,

as you ask so nicely....
it will be done.


Heather P
20-07-2002, 10:28 PM
Wrong post. Meant the faq.

Susan B
20-07-2002, 10:42 PM
> Dearest Susan,
> as you ask so nicely....
> it will be done.

Your hubby will never be able to use the excuse that he "lost" the instructions then, will he? :D

20-07-2002, 11:23 PM
Tried my "play" homepage on orcon, its fine...full access

Susan B
20-07-2002, 11:37 PM
Rub my nose in it, won't you ....

How come that when I type www.godfather.orcon.net.nz I just get the Orcon's home page?

Actually, you can do me a favour - now go and add another webpage to your account and see if the original one still works. Go on!

20-07-2002, 11:43 PM
Have emailed you the link (hotmail address)

Susan B
21-07-2002, 12:20 AM
Gasp!! I'm not sure I can handle the shock!! :O

Graham L
21-07-2002, 03:06 PM

There are not many home sites on orcon which have the "www." It is a hostname, not an indicator of protocol.

The "fully qualified domain name" of godfather's site is almost certainly "godfather.orcon.net.nz" . So the hostname would be "godfather" (in the domain orcon.net.nz), unless he gave it the name "www.godfather", which would mean that the hostname was "www" in the godfather.orcon.net.nz domain..

I would guess that the DNS in orcon's system will map anything in the orcon.net.nz domain which is not recognised to the main home page.

You can't set the ownership of the top level directory of your site, because it belongs to root. That has to be set by the administrators --- or by a script running as root. I hope that they would have a script, but sometimes someone "improves" things like scripts by adding more functionality. ;-) Then they don't work. :_|

22-07-2002, 06:13 PM
Susan - did you get an answer to your problems with your second web page with Orcon? If you did, or do, I would be interested in what you had to do to set the second up successfully.

Many thanks

Chris Wilson
23-07-2002, 01:10 AM
your not alone Susan,
i set up 2 orcon sites. The first one something.orcon i have lost access to completely, i never put anything there, but i definatly used the same password as the second site which works fine, i have proper access to the second site, but none to the first, it is as if i used a differant password, but i didn't.. o yeah just like yours the images seem to have disapeared.

BTW, your images are back, maybe you can access yours again????

23-07-2002, 06:42 PM
Whats worse is that I know of two sites at tripod/lycos that are down at the moment. While two others are still up.

They must have had a server crash.

I hope tazzie had backed up his database. I hadn't backed mine up yet.

Susan B
23-07-2002, 08:54 PM
R.M.: No, I'm still locked out of my site. Have emailed Orcon a couple of times and have yet to receive a reply so I'll have to phone them. I do want it sorted out.

Chris: At last someone else has had problems!! It's terribly lonely being the only one. :-(

Chris Wilson
23-07-2002, 09:27 PM
maybe they know we have 2 sites, so they kill the first one!?