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View Full Version : Gforce 4 - help me choose which one



mum in learning
11-07-2002, 08:06 PM
Got these options from the local comp shop. Incl gst and installed.

GF4/mx420/64mb DDR 128bit tv out $265
GF4/mx440/64mb DDR 128bit tv out $320

GF2/mx400/64mb SDRAM 128 bit AGP 4x/2x tv/video out. $237

They didn't give me any options on GF3.

$350 would be the most I will let the kids push me to.

We run 700mhz, ME, 128 ram.

Which of the above would be more future proof?
Is the G4 better with DDR than the G2?

Thanks,

Berys

godfather
11-07-2002, 08:14 PM
But what motherboard (or computer make and model) do you have, if it has "on-board" video now can it actually use an external card.....

mum in learning
11-07-2002, 09:12 PM
Would imagine so, this is the same shop I purchased from.

TMC PIII, 8MB PCI video card.

Don't know much more without asking the shop or taking the cover off.

Thanks.

Berys

godfather
11-07-2002, 09:17 PM
OK, its got a PCI card, so shouldn't be a conflict with on-board.

Just checking, if they sold it its a good sign, they cant duck for cover!

I am not a gamer (well, I won this months Medal of Honour game from PCW..) so cannot advise - but I am sure someone will. Might pay to mention what game(s) you are planning and how much RAM on board the PC. Someone's bound to ask as part of the advice.

Good Luck

Chris Wilson
11-07-2002, 09:18 PM
Why do you need a better card?
Is it for games, or is it for graphic design?
The biggest weakness i could see in what you have said, is that there is only 128 meg of ram, which would be a major issue for graphic design, and possibly some issue for games

Ok, i couldn't layout my way out of a plastic bag, but most of the experience i have with comps is graphic design orientated, not games, so there is my bias. Please excuse if my viewpoint makes my advice irrelevant

Without a little more knowledge about what the rest of your system is, and what you plan to do with it, it is very hard to guess which are the best options for you.

Mike
11-07-2002, 09:22 PM
> OK, its got a PCI card, so shouldn't be a conflict
> with on-board.
>
> Just checking, if they sold it its a good sign, they
> cant duck for cover!
>
> I am not a gamer (well, I won this months Medal of
> Honour game from PCW..) so cannot advise - but I am
> sure someone will. Might pay to mention what game(s)
> you are planning and how much RAM on board the PC.
> Someone's bound to ask as part of the advice.
>
> Good Luck

godfather,

if you're not a gamer, and don't really want your game... well <coff> I'm sure my daughter would love it :D <coff>

Mike.

mum in learning
11-07-2002, 09:23 PM
OK, thanks.

TMC Pentium III, 700mhz. 128 mb ram, (upping this to 256)
20 gig enhanced IDE HDD.
8mb pci video card - S3 Trio 3d/2x version 3.0
Win ME.

Still 6 months to go on a 2 year warranty.
Though warranty may be a gonner when they see I have installed a cd writer myself.

Just wanna play Quake III Arena. Bought the game, can't play it.
S3 Trio doesn't support Open GL.
Don't play heaps of games, but the kids want to be able to play some.


Any thoughts much appreciated.

Sam H
11-07-2002, 09:28 PM
Save your self some money and go with the GeForce 2 mx 400 64mb, this is still a perfectly good graphics card. Through experience it plays quake 3 arena wonderfully, was giving me 60-70 frames per second.

godfather
11-07-2002, 09:29 PM
Mike, I think she is a bit young yet....and anyway it wouln't agree with you PC I am sure, you would be posting here for OpenGl more RAM, faster CPU, etc.

Havent played far into it yet but seems OK on my PIII 667, 256MB On-board Intel 810 chipset under XP. Thought it would stutter but its OK so far.

Have to earn a living on this PC and if godmother caught me playing games I would be sunk.

Mike
11-07-2002, 09:32 PM
> Mike, I think she is a bit young yet....and anyway it
> wouln't agree with you PC I am sure, you would be
> posting here for OpenGl more RAM, faster CPU, etc.
>
> Havent played far into it yet but seems OK on my PIII
> 667, 256MB On-board Intel 810 chipset under XP.
> Thought it would stutter but its OK so far.
>
> Have to earn a living on this PC and if godmother
> caught me playing games I would be sunk.

I'm sure it would agree with my system, as my specs seem to be slightly higher than yours (note, I'm not the person who posted this thread) :) and besides <coff> I'm sure my daughter is old enough <coff> well, if not, I could try to teach her how to play :D

Mike.

-=JM=-
11-07-2002, 09:35 PM
I personally would have a look around as I've seen cheaper prices than that.

Depending on brands.

Bam Bam
11-07-2002, 09:36 PM
Any GeForce card with the prefix of MX in front of it means it's a budget version of the standard Gforce card which usually have the prefix of TI.

My preference would be the GeForce MX440. I don't think you'd go to far wrong with that. It'll certainly keep the kids happy, and any money you've got left over can be used for the crowbar you'll need to pry them away from the screen. :D

tweak\'e
11-07-2002, 09:55 PM
i think u need to work out what hardware you have. can't see why they quote agp video cards if you have a pci vid card.

if agp i would go for a geforce3ti200. it should be at the top end of your price range.

-=JM=-
11-07-2002, 11:32 PM
for $354.38 you can get a Leadtek: Geforce 4 Ti: Leadtek Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti 4200 with TV-Out & DVI Out 64 MB 4ns from Starlyte (http://www.starlyte.co.nz)

bmason
12-07-2002, 12:00 AM
The price of the GF2 is a bit high, I got a Asus geforce2 mx 400 64mb (no tv out) for $150 at a local place.

Even with only a PII-400 I got 60-70fps in Quake III HighQuality 800x600 and 25-30fps at 1024x768.

I would just get the GF2 and save getting a better card until your next upgrade.

Biggles
12-07-2002, 09:34 AM
There isn't much point getting a GF2 unless you are only paying $150 or so. If you are comparing prices between GF2 and GF4 and the difference (as seen above) is really only a few bucks, don't bother with the GF2.

Having said that, I run a GF2 and it is fine - it will certainly handle Quake III. But if future proofing is your concern, thent he GF4s make more sense. The kids are only going to go out and buy something like Doom III when it arrives and then they'll start pestering you for a better video card.

There is an argument which says, given that Quake III is all you are currently concerned about, that it might be an idea to spend $150 now on some flavour of GF2 (shop around, they really are going cheap now) and wait a while before buying a GF4. By the time you need one (Doom III again...), they will have dropped enough in price that you culd pick up a better one at the $300 price range than you can currently get. I've held off buying a new card for a while now, waiting for prices to drop, and the GF2 has kept me satisfied.

Hervard
12-07-2002, 11:34 AM
If you're looking for the lowest onlice prices in NZ, check out www.pricespy.co.nz - it lists *heaps* of computer components, checking just about all (I think) online shops, comparing prices.

--
Hervard

tweak\'e
12-07-2002, 11:44 AM
sorry bruce but the gf4mx's will not be able to play the likes of doom 3.
only real video cards need apply ;-)

any video card will be better than those s3 trio crappula vid cards.

Biggles
12-07-2002, 11:51 AM
They'll play it - just not to full effect. Better than a GF2. I figure sh'es not in the market for a $1000 plus card :-)

tweak\'e
12-07-2002, 11:57 AM
don't count on it. according to one of the press releases (montys news had it long time back) the minimum will be a gf3. i think its due to the game useing the extra parts of the gpu (tranform & lightning??) that the g4mx dosn't have.

i'll see if i can dig out the press release on it.

Susan B
12-07-2002, 11:59 AM
Tut tut tut, it takes a mum to understand another mum... (need a "roll-eyes" emoticon again)

mum in learning said in her original post that the prices quoted "Incl gst and installed." So of course everyone can get cheaper prices than that. The shop is probably stinging her half the cost of the board for installation.

Maybe someone could post instructions here, or point her in the direction for instructions, for her to do it herself then she could get the fantastic prices you're all quoting and have plenty left for the crowbar. ;-)

If she's prepared to sacrifice her remaining six months' warranty, that is.

If there is any warranty left after installing the CD writer, that is.

Biggles
12-07-2002, 12:17 PM
True - MinL may well be happy to pay more for the peace of mind of having the installation done. Still, if she really is "in learning" then dropping the new video card in is a good place to start . . .

Hervard
12-07-2002, 12:25 PM
http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=pg_20011106217193 has installation instructions in 2D and 3D views. B-)

--
Hervard

mum in learning
12-07-2002, 05:42 PM
I just luv this place. Got in from work 5 mins ago, turn on the box (this one) and 11 more replys to my question. Awesome. We novices can learn heaps just by listening to the banter about questions asked.

Well said Susan B.

Will check out the post below yours, if it ain't too difficult, will give it a go.

Please be aware, that in lil old Gisborne, the choice is very limited as to computer shops, or techies.

Once again guys and gals, thanks for your help.

Cheers from wet Gissy.

Berys

-=JM=-
12-07-2002, 09:33 PM
> don't count on it. according to one of the press
> releases (montys news had it long time back) the
> minimum will be a gf3. i think its due to the game
> useing the extra parts of the gpu (tranform &
> lightning??) that the g4mx dosn't have.
>
> i'll see if i can dig out the press release on it.
>

umm the MX440 will still be able to play it. Just not to the full effect. You can also with softare *emulate* those functions as well. ;)

tweak\'e
12-07-2002, 10:05 PM
mmmmm.....strange ...when the g4 was launched id commented that gamers should not buy the mx series because it won't play q4/doom3. i'll have to find the post with it in(major search job).

-=JM=-
12-07-2002, 11:28 PM
posted by tweak'e on Feb 13, 2002 10:00 PM
id Software lead programmer John Carmack has posted a .plan http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/finger.pl?id=1&time=2002021122 3659 update for Doom 3 where he discusses 3D acceleration of the new Doom game on ATI Radeon and NVIDIA GeForce boards. The most interesting part of the whole update is this final comment listed below:
On the topic of current Nvidia cards:
Do not buy a GeForce4-MX for Doom.
Nvidia has really made a mess of the naming conventions here. I always thought it was bad enough that GF2 was just a speed bumped GF1, while GF3 had significant architectural improvements over GF2. I expected GF4 to be the speed bumped GF3, but calling the NV17 GF4-MX really sucks.
GF4-MX will still run Doom properly, but it will be using the NV10 codepath with only two texture units and no vertex shaders. A GF3 or 8500 will be much better performers. The GF4-MX may still be the card of choice for many people depending on pricing, especially considering that many games won't use four textures and vertex programs, but damn, I wish they had named it something else.
As usual, there will be better cards available from both Nvidia and ATI by the time we ship the game

tweak\'e
13-07-2002, 12:12 AM
ok you may slap me silly wuth a wet fish but you must grease me first ]:):^O:^O:^O

tweak\'e
13-07-2002, 12:15 AM
>Do not buy a GeForce4-MX for Doom (and quake4)

or any decent next gen game ;-)

note- fish must not be frozen.

-=JM=-
13-07-2002, 12:29 AM
> ok you may slap me silly wuth a wet fish but you must
> grease me first ]:):^O:^O:^O

it would appear as if I've proven you wrong :)

though I most certainly would not recommend it for doomIII.

Susan B
13-07-2002, 10:46 AM
> >Do not buy a GeForce4-MX for Doom (and quake4)
>
> or any decent next gen game

OK, so what would be recommended for those two games then? GF 2? Not high end $1000 cards, just decent average ones. Given that the information was written back in February, does this apply yet:

As usual, there will be better cards available from both Nvidia and ATI by the time we ship the game. ?



> note- fish must not be frozen.

JM, note that tweak'e didn't specify a size limit. Shall I obtain something like a 40lb grouper for you? :D

tweak\'e
13-07-2002, 11:39 AM
for doom3 & quake4 a GF3 minimum (a cheap GF3 is only just a bit dearer than a GF4mx440 and a whole lot quicker) or any non mx GF4. GF2 pro might do just but a g3 is a whole lot better.

fish may be any size that he can pick up with one hand ;-)

Susan B
13-07-2002, 11:43 AM
Another entry for the Cardfile. Thanks tweak'e. ;-)


JM, how big are your muscles? ;-)

mum in learning
13-07-2002, 12:23 PM
Great debate.
Will take the cover off today. Check for AGP slot. Then buy GeF3ti.

Will then need instruction on install.
Checked out the previous page thread.

Do I uninstall the previous card? / drivers?

Or do this after the physical replacement and reboot.

Thanks,


PS. Please make the fish a small one, might need help further down the track!!

DeSade
13-07-2002, 02:06 PM
I have heard the MX versions described as a Ferrari with flat tyres and a volkswagon engine.

In other words, all show no go.

tweak\'e
13-07-2002, 05:58 PM
basicly put- you need to change the driver to a standard vga driver (stock windows),uninstall the video drives (add&remove) and any video driver utilities, shut down, change card, install new drivers.

-=JM=-
13-07-2002, 08:05 PM
JM, how big are your muscles? ;)

The ones that I steal off the farms in the bay are good ;)

oh you mean the ones on my arms :O
ummm not huge but they still get requests alot. :)

Susan B
13-07-2002, 10:30 PM
mum-in-l: Keep us informed of progress, won't you? :-)

tweak'e: OK then, JM can use his 2 inch goldfish; we don't want our newsman bailed. :-(


> The ones that I steal off the farms in the bay are good

Yes, I thought I saw some empty shells tucked away behind your monitor.... ;-)

> oh you mean the ones on my arms
> ummm not huge but they still get requests alot.

Must be the B.S. :D