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DeSade
14-04-2019, 04:32 PM
Not sure if I posted about this before but it is a ongoing issue with my computer.

It hates to reboot, I don't know why but it takes sometimes multiple tries to reboot and start up again sometimes for over an hour.
Often I have to remove my keyboard/mouse and plug in a generic $20 set to get the machine to reboot and I am fed up with this.

The reason I am enduring this today is because the computer crashed on me. just died even Task Manager would not work, when it restarted and this time it restarted fine, my D:/ was missing, there was no indication of a problem with the drive, all the connectors are fine so I figured a reboot would probably sort it out. Now because I can't reboot I do not know if there is a problem with my D:/ or not but losing D:/ would be worse than losing C:/ for me.

All of the My folders are there, as well as all of my gaming data, the actual game installs are elsewhere but without the data they are blank, no character saves, no game saves, no mod files all on D. The worse part is my backup is also physically on D as a partition of it.

I am happy to listen to any advice anyone has but I think it might be best to have someone look at it, to that end I am looking for a on-site tech or company in Christchurch that can come to me to sort this out. Any recommendations or referrals, please feel free to refer yourself if you are a tech.

Lurking
14-04-2019, 04:56 PM
We have had good service from PCGuru, Thomas & Penny.

Will have to get them to fix my old XP desktop, believe it or not it just crashed and it holds the networking controls.

lurking.

DeSade
14-04-2019, 04:59 PM
We have had good service from PCGuru, Thomas & Penny.

Will have to get them to fix my old XP desktop, believe it or not it just crashed and it holds the networking controls.

lurking.

Seems to be a day for it.
I got this computer running again, using it right now and D:/ has returned.

Still I have to get this reboot issue sorted once and for all so yeah.
Is PCGuru on this board?

Lurking
14-04-2019, 05:04 PM
DeSade that worked ok.


Will let you get in first, have to figure out what we want in way of W10 & XP dual boot.


lurking.

Driftwood
14-04-2019, 05:31 PM
Silly question maybe.
What is the operating system, and is it up to date?

DeSade
14-04-2019, 05:32 PM
Silly question maybe.
What is the operating system, and is it up to date?

Windows 10.0.17134 Build 17134

wainuitech
14-04-2019, 06:59 PM
Just courious, Is this the install that was cloned /Imaged from a previous Working PC OR a complete brand new fresh install ?

Bryan
14-04-2019, 07:00 PM
Just bye and bye, you do know of course that that is an old build, not that that will have any bearing on your problem. You also do not indicate if D: is a separate drive or and extra partition on the C: drive.

DeSade
14-04-2019, 07:59 PM
Just courious, Is this the install that was cloned /Imaged from a previous Working PC OR a complete brand new fresh install ?

Fresh install


Just bye and bye, you do know of course that that is an old build, not that that will have any bearing on your problem. You also do not indicate if D: is a separate drive or and extra partition on the C: drive.

No
I install every patch that comes along so assumed it was up-to-date

D and G is a separate physical hard drive partitioned into two, D is my primary data drive and G is my backup drive.

Lurking
14-04-2019, 08:18 PM
Seems to be a day for it.
I got this computer running again, using it right now and D:/ has returned.

Still I have to get this reboot issue sorted once and for all so yeah.
Is PCGuru on this board?

No, they moved from Woolston to Burnside.

Their email address: ch.pcguru@xtra.co.nz

Last used it in Dec 2017, so hope it still works.

lurking.

wainuitech
14-04-2019, 09:25 PM
I install every patch that comes along so assumed it was up-to-date


Bryan is 100% correct, you have a old Build, that's actually build 1803, which is close to a year out of date.

If you open Winver Via the search it should show, prob 1803 ( highlighted in the picture).I've manually upgraded to the latest:

9550

What more than likely has happened in when 1809 came out ( the current public build) it was pulled /stopped because of a bug, when MS re -released it again, a HUGE number of computers didn't upgrade.

Having the second drive as D is not a good idea.

Cant explain the technical details right now ( SWMBO) is calling.

BUT as a quick experiment, go into drive manager, re assign a different Drive letter to the current D, F,H I -- what ever anything but D.

DeSade
14-04-2019, 09:51 PM
Bryan is 100% correct, you have a old Build, that's actually build 1803, which is close to a year out of date.

If you open Winver Via the search it should show, prob 1803 ( highlighted in the picture).I've manually upgraded to the latest:

9550

What more than likely has happened in when 1809 came out ( the current public build) it was pulled /stopped because of a bug, when MS re -released it again, a HUGE number of computers didn't upgrade.

Having the second drive as D is not a good idea.

Cant explain the technical details right now ( SWMBO) is calling.

BUT as a quick experiment, go into drive manager, re assign a different Drive letter to the current D, F,H I -- what ever anything but D.


How can I upgrade the OS then?

What will happen to shortcuts and everything else that points to D?

wainuitech
14-04-2019, 10:13 PM
Assuming its at 1803, check With Winver ( from Search, then open and check)

9551

If its 1803, you can manually upgrade to the current Public Build 1809, via the media creaton tool, several options - have a read. ( wont post how to get 1903 YET as its still not public released and they still have a couple of minor fixes before they do.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

If you download it you can make an ISO or use a flash drive ( thats from Downlaod Tool Now)

Leave the drive letter as is for the mean time.

Remember anyone here cant see how you have things setup ( what goes where etc) this is why often its 20 Questions. Where as seing in front of the screen its easier.

NOTE: upgrading can take 5-6+ hours or more depending on what has to be done (within Windows automatically)

DeSade
14-04-2019, 10:39 PM
Yeah I know no one can see what I have and I expect to be questioned.
I would put the answers in advance I just don't know what I will be asked.

Does any of this relate to the issue I have with rebooting?

The D drive situation has sorted itself out now that the machine managed to reboot.

piroska
15-04-2019, 07:42 AM
Forget the OS version.
It shouldn't do that whatever latest or not anything.

Test it with a Linux boot...you don't need to install..........

I'd say thats a hardware issue. What hardware? Well, that's going to take some troubleshooting, what does Event Viewer say, if anything?

DeSade
15-04-2019, 08:41 AM
Forget the OS version.
It shouldn't do that whatever latest or not anything.

Test it with a Linux boot...you don't need to install..........

I'd say thats a hardware issue. What hardware? Well, that's going to take some troubleshooting, what does Event Viewer say, if anything?

Nothing in Event Viewer that I can see

Harware

ASUS X99-E WS/USB3.1 Intel X99 DDR4 LGA2011 WorkStation Motherboard
Intel Haswell-E Core i7 5960X 8 Core 16 Threads 3.0Ghz 20M Cache LGA2011
Corsair Dominator 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-2666 x2
Samsung 950 PRO 256GB M.2 NVMe SSD
Seagate SSHD ST4000DX001 4TB 64MB Solid State Hybrid Drive SATA3 x3
Gigabyte Aorus GeForce GTX1080TI 12GB Waterforce Xtreme
Corsair AX Series AX1500i Digital 1500W Modular Power Supply 80Plus Titanium
Thermaltake View71 T Case

CliveM
15-04-2019, 08:59 AM
All of the My folders are there, as well as all of my gaming data, the actual game installs are elsewhere but without the data they are blank, no character saves, no game saves, no mod files all on D. The worse part is my backup is also physically on D as a partition of it.


I am sure you already know this! A backup should not be placed on the same disk as the data you are backing up it should be on a drive which is physicaly separate from from your PC. That way you can easily restore things if it all turns to custard.

DeSade
15-04-2019, 09:39 AM
I am sure you already know this! A backup should not be placed on the same disk as the data you are backing up it should be on a drive which is physicaly separate from from your PC. That way you can easily restore things if it all turns to custard.

Yes but that is not practical.
I am not backing up to the cloud and this computer is not connected with anything else that is large enough to hold its backup.

1101
15-04-2019, 10:35 AM
Assuming you dont have a CD\DVD drive ....... ( causing conflicts with drive lettering, D: )

Could be that 2nd hard drive is starting to fail. That may be why it works or doesnt on a whim :-)

Get a good backup of that 2nd drive .
I wouldnt worry about ~only~ having v1803. There are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of PC's working happily with 1803
If 1809 was important to have, MS would have forced that upgrade onto all Win10 PC's .
I would wait untill your PC is stable before upgrading to 1809 , or just wait untill the next big Win10 build update (just an opinion)

DeSade
15-04-2019, 11:06 AM
Assuming you dont have a CD\DVD drive ....... ( causing conflicts with drive lettering, D: )

Could be that 2nd hard drive is starting to fail. That may be why it works or doesnt on a whim :-)

Get a good backup of that 2nd drive .
I wouldnt worry about ~only~ having v1803. There are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of PC's working happily with 1803
If 1809 was important to have, MS would have forced that upgrade onto all Win10 PC's .
I would wait untill your PC is stable before upgrading to 1809 , or just wait untill the next big Win10 build update (just an opinion)


I do not have any optical drives in this machine.

Its never showed any indication of failure and this is the first and only time its ever disappeared like that.
This seems to be a windows issue rather than a drive issue and it is all working fine now.

pcuser42
15-04-2019, 12:40 PM
Failing drives can cause all sorts of weird and unexplained issues - the symptoms aren't always consistent.

Test the secondary drive at least, and if it is dying replace it.

DeSade
15-04-2019, 01:00 PM
Failing drives can cause all sorts of weird and unexplained issues - the symptoms aren't always consistent.

Test the secondary drive at least, and if it is dying replace it.

Test it how?
I assume you mean something more than just a scandisc

1101
15-04-2019, 01:08 PM
Test it how?
I assume you mean something more than just a scandisc

Download that HD manufacturers test tool.
WD has WD diag, Seagate has seatools (or something newer now)
Some HD's can pass every test you throw at it, but still be faulty & soon die.

DeSade
15-04-2019, 01:10 PM
Download that HD manufacturers test tool.
WD has WD diag, Seagate has seatools (or something newer now)
Some HD's can pass every test you throw at it, but still be faulty & soon die.

Well its not a new drive and its not an old drive either
so if it was going to be faulty it would have done so already and it is far to young to die because of "issues"

Not saying it can't just saying it is not in its danger zones for that.

wainuitech
15-04-2019, 02:04 PM
Well its not a new drive and its not an old drive either
so if it was going to be faulty it would have done so already and it is far to young to die because of "issues"

Not saying it can't just saying it is not in its danger zones for that. Sorry to say but that logic isn't really correct.

Hard Drives can and do fail for a number of reasons at ANY stage, either new or old.

In Bold from your post -- What do you consider the "Danger Zones" ?

Want an example ;) One of my own office PC's, had no problems at all for 1 1/2 years, then one night, shut it down as normal, following day - Error no HDD WTF !!

Looked in the BIOS and sure enough no HDD showing. Put in a brand new HDD, put back an image from my auto backups the night before - --- Sweet, for a week - BAM !! Another gone, different error this time, but it had failed as well.

By this time you may be suppecting something else causing the failures -- put in a different brand from a different Supplier, again dropped the previous nights image, went fine for another 2 years till I decided to upgrade the HDD to a SSD, still running sweet as with no problems. The HDD that was taken out is now in a workshop PC and still going strong.

Simple FACT-- Drives fail.

1101
15-04-2019, 02:22 PM
Well its not a new drive and its not an old drive either
so if it was going to be faulty it would have done so already and it is far to young to die because of "issues"

Not saying it can't just saying it is not in its danger zones for that.

Ha :)
Drives fail without warning all the time. There is no 'danger zone' .
Thats why data recovery specialists can have a viable businesses , even in NZ .

D: missing : I would suspect the HD untill proven otherwise . Its one of the most common things to fail on PC's

dugimodo
15-04-2019, 02:54 PM
Could be something else though, inexplicable software glitch that never happens again, failing hardware (drive, MB, PSU) even a simple flat BIOS battery can cause similar issues - had all kinds of weird boot issues with that recently. I have a partly dead PSU here that causes drive glitches among other things - think one or more rails is not working right.

But I also had a hdd fail during a backup overnight, was almost new and stalled copying one sector for 8 hours. Was never quite sure if the hdd failed causing the software to hang (seems most likely) or the software had a problem and killed the drive sector by writing to it continuously for 8 hours straight. Point being an almost new drive developed 1 bad sector all of a sudden - and to make the story weirder continued to work flawlessly for years afterwards with no more bad sectors even though I never fully trusted it (low level format "hid" the bad sector)

1101
15-04-2019, 02:58 PM
"Samsung 950 PRO 256GB M.2 NVMe SSD
Seagate SSHD ST4000DX001 4TB 64MB Solid State Hybrid Drive SATA3 x3 "

Samsung 950 PRO 256GB M.2 NVMe : could be bad connector/socket causing issues . Unplug & reseat a few times .
ST4000DX001 : good news is they rated well in reliabilty a few years back. bad news is there were fakes sold . Try another sata cable & plug on the mb . Run the seagate test tool on it , because its only a 5 minutes effort

Of course it could be something else. You test the easy common things first, because they are the easy things to test .
I doubt he has a spare PS/mb/ram to do thorough testing .


"The worse part is my backup is also physically on D"
I'll say no more :-)

DeSade
15-04-2019, 04:18 PM
"Samsung 950 PRO 256GB M.2 NVMe SSD
Seagate SSHD ST4000DX001 4TB 64MB Solid State Hybrid Drive SATA3 x3 "

Samsung 950 PRO 256GB M.2 NVMe : could be bad connector/socket causing issues . Unplug & reseat a few times .
ST4000DX001 : good news is they rated well in reliabilty a few years back. bad news is there were fakes sold . Try another sata cable & plug on the mb . Run the seagate test tool on it , because its only a 5 minutes effort

Of course it could be something else. You test the easy common things first, because they are the easy things to test .
I doubt he has a spare PS/mb/ram to do thorough testing .


"The worse part is my backup is also physically on D"
I'll say no more :-)


I am pretty sure my drives aren't fake, they registered fine.
Apart from that ONE glitch last night I have had no drive issues, why would it spend all that time and energy to swap cables and ****?
I ran the Seatools on all drives and the short test was fine, the long test has 6 hours left to run.

I do not have spare parts to test with nor am I pulling this machine apart to do so.


Is is the drive that had the space for it so I partitioned it to take the windows backups.
So what can I do here, install a new drive for the backups, my options are somewhat limited.

wainuitech
15-04-2019, 04:50 PM
Is is the drive that had the space for it so I partitioned it to take the windows backups.
So what can I do here, install a new drive for the backups, my options are somewhat limited.

The reason(s) and there are a few why you DONT have an internal permanent drive connected are as follows.

IF you have a internal Drive as a backup, while it may be OK if the main drive falls over but thats about it.
Why Not a good Idea to have a internaldrive as backup ??


If someone breaks in steals your computer - Wheres The Backup = GONE
Being anywhere that may have a natual or man made disaster distroying everything -- Wheres the backup =Gone
If there is some sort of power related Problem, PSU fails puts 240V into 12/5 volt components frys EVERYTHING connected both internally and externally connected -- Wheres the Back = Gone up in smoke (seen this happen a few times)
You get a Virus or some sort of encryption infection - Distroys everything, wheres the Backup=GONE




Others can add to the list, there will be more.

Think you get the idea ;) Whats better is to have a backup off site, either external drive stored someplace safe away from your own home, OR in the cloud.

It all may sound like to much work, BUT ask yourself , if tomorrow all of a sudden everything, your irreplaceable work / data disappears for some reason, what would you do ??

It DOES happen. I got a laptop here at the moment roughly 3 years old they say, the drives in a real bad way, was fine last week (or so they thought), NO BACKUPS at all, didn't get around to it, they are in a real panic as theres lots of important data. At the moment Linux is really struggling to read the drive, windows programs wont even look at it, getting some data back but going to be along process.

piroska
15-04-2019, 06:16 PM
I have 4 drives.

Main in PC.
Older smaller, backup inside PC.

Haha, yes, get a power issue or some such and both can be killed.

Which is why I also have 2 not attached, portable drives as backup.
One lives in PC room, not on desk, not plugged in to PC.

The other is elsewhere, cause burglars are likely to knick the PC and any backup drives they see lying about.

4 drives...chances of loosing all 4 at once? Minimal.

Of course if your really want to be paranoid, have all that AND a cloud backup.

But don't just rely on cloud and nothing else.

DeSade
15-04-2019, 09:18 PM
I have 4 drives.

Main in PC.
Older smaller, backup inside PC.

Haha, yes, get a power issue or some such and both can be killed.

Which is why I also have 2 not attached, portable drives as backup.
One lives in PC room, not on desk, not plugged in to PC.

The other is elsewhere, cause burglars are likely to knick the PC and any backup drives they see lying about.

4 drives...chances of loosing all 4 at once? Minimal.

Of course if your really want to be paranoid, have all that AND a cloud backup.

But don't just rely on cloud and nothing else.


So how exactly do you automate your backups to 4 separate drives?

piroska
16-04-2019, 08:01 AM
Automate? LOL.

Linux had a built in backup thing. It backups to the internal. (not main)

Then I copy it over to the other 2.

wainuitech
16-04-2019, 08:18 AM
You can automate but that's not always the best either as any infections can be transferred . All OS's ( windows, Linux or MAC's) can auto backup to the cloud storage, some have it inbuilt some you can install programs. I got both (or should that be 3 ) 2 automatic and one manually.

For the external drives, plug them in, and either copy the data over you wish to back up OR there are programs that can do it for you.

The problem with non connected is people get lazy, they often don't get around to it, or its "to much trouble". BUT I can tell you if something happens and the only backups are ones on an external drive you are thankful you took the time. :)

CliveM
26-04-2019, 07:33 AM
I am also facing the same issue, what I have done, I formated my computer and taken out hard drive. now, it works.

New technology! a PC that can be used with no drive. I'll bet your car runs without any fuel as well!

mrgrtt123
26-04-2019, 05:47 PM
It really is important that we have a backup as PC crashing is inevitable.

fred_fish
26-04-2019, 07:11 PM
What, no helpful link? ....

CliveM
27-04-2019, 08:36 AM
It will come soon.