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ianhnz
04-10-2018, 06:55 PM
I bought my first desktop, about 2003.
Was an SX25 with 8 MB ram and windows 3.
Moved to windows 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98 and finally XP, which I still think was their best windows.
After all these years I finally got sick of windows 10 and gone to Linux mint, 12 I think?
Had it about 3 weeks and not missed a beat.
Was thinking of doing a dual boot but my windows guy says better to stick with Linux.
What you guys think?
If so whats best way of doing it?

CliveM
04-10-2018, 07:08 PM
I tend to think that if Linux is doing what you want it is easier to stick with it and learn to use and maintain it properly. Otherwise you are just introducing complications that you do not really need.

wainuitech
04-10-2018, 08:18 PM
By all means run both, But I wouldn't dual boot. You would be better off having one set as a VM (Virtual Machine) Of course the main thing is you need to have a computer thats powerful enough to run a VM as well as the hardware is capable.

Running as VM's you can try many different OS's without effecting the host OS. Heres an example on this PC (VM) I can run any one of those in conjunction with the Host OS (Windows 10)

9066


In case you're interested, mint 12 is quite old - the latest is Mint 19. Trying to find help unless you have a friendly person who knows Linux can be painful.

Kame
04-10-2018, 09:16 PM
Do you mean 1983? My first PC was in 1987 and was a 386 running DOS version 3 and then later tried Windows 2 but mostly stuck to DOS. Eventually bought a 486 with Windows 3 and still was heavily using DOS.

I think Windows 2000 was their best OS, XP was just a candy coated version of it.

Anyways if you are thinking of doing dual boot, what are your reasons behind it? Since these would be the deciding factors over if you do or do not need it and everyone is different.

I do not need Windows, except I do have a Win10PE USB for times where I may need to flash a bios with a windows only method or need to see how a Windows utility works to mimick it. Other than that, i've not truly ran Windows since XP.

You could just continue using Linux until such time arises. If it ever does.

SurferJoe46
05-10-2018, 07:20 AM
@Kame:

In ways that I do not totally understand - I know that one can use VM - proviso one has a powerful-enough 'puter. That's all well n good and I understand some of that.

I am also of the opinion that one can run WINE to access Windows things - and there's where my wheels fall off. Do you have to have a fully installed and up to date version of Windows to run WINE from it?

IOW: Do I need to have (say) XP installed on the same HDD to use WINE in Linux?

I ask 'cause if I wanted to run Win/Office Writer while I'm in Mint, can I just access it via WINE --- and/or could I ONLY install Win Office Suite and cherry-pick it in Mint?

You might see that I do not want a full installation of Windows - just a copy of Win Office.

Do-able?

SurferJoe46
05-10-2018, 07:26 AM
By all means run both, But I wouldn't dual boot. You would be better off having one set as a VM (Virtual Machine) Of course the main thing is you need to have a computer thats powerful enough to run a VM as well as the hardware is capable.

Running as VM's you can try many different OS's without effecting the host OS. Heres an example on this PC (VM) I can run any one of those in conjunction with the Host OS (Windows 10)

9066


In case you're interested, mint 12 is quite old - the latest is Mint 19. Trying to find help unless you have a friendly person who knows Linux can be painful.

Question ------> if one is running a truly older desktop, then an earlier iteration of Linux should be all well-n-good - right?

Old hardware may dislike a newer distro. I need to run Linux Mint 17.3 'cause of my older 'puter.

9067

piroska
05-10-2018, 08:53 AM
I wouldn't bother dual booting if you are happy with Mint.
I did initially and it was just annoying, I never went back into Windows so I formatted and re-did it from scratch.

Wine does not need Windows, the whole point is it is a Windows Emulator.....WINE you see....WIN-E.

Nor do you need Office, Libre Office is no different.

Live Windows free....I haven't looked back and it's been nearly a year

SurferJoe46
05-10-2018, 08:59 AM
Oh yeah..... im happy with Mint..... I only posted the question and mentioned WinOffice as a f'rinstance, as I totally love LibreOffice.

My question was more generic as I thought one had to have a full installation of Windows on the same hdd so you could call any of its applications over to Linux before it could be used, that's all.

Kame
05-10-2018, 12:01 PM
I'm trying to think of a way to explain wine.

Wine is like a software translator/converter that helps other operating systems understand how to run windows programs. You do not need Windows as everything that is needed is available online or built into wine.

Being a translator/convertor, everything is not perfect and as a result some software may not work. You should check Wine's database to see if they have rated/tested it and knows whether it works.

I would not use wine to attempt to flash a bios, nor a virtual machine because I feel only the host has that direct access.

I used Wine many years ago to try different methods of installing Photoshop 7. The easiest method was directly copying the installation location from Windows over to Linux rather than installing from CD.

However it was successful either way and helped me understand why wine shouldnt be called an emulator.

piroska
05-10-2018, 01:46 PM
Wine is like a software translator/converter that helps other operating systems understand how to run windows programs. You do not need Windows as everything that is needed is available online or built into wine.
.

It is an emulator.
Stuff may work, or it may not.

If it doesn't oh well, plenty of Linux alternatives around.

I have it to run 2 very old games....that were Windows. Worked well.

SurferJoe46
05-10-2018, 01:52 PM
.... I'm after getting Audacity to play at all. It worked when this 'puter was on XP - but on Mint, no way.

KarameaDave
05-10-2018, 02:52 PM
It is an emulator.
Stuff may work, or it may not.

If it doesn't oh well, plenty of Linux alternatives around.

I have it to run 2 very old games....that were Windows. Worked well.

Ah but you see Wine Is Not an Emulator!
https://www.winehq.org/
It is a compatibility layer, not the same at all

wainuitech
05-10-2018, 03:04 PM
.... I'm after getting Audacity to play at all. It worked when this 'puter was on XP - but on Mint, no way. Dont try the windows version,its not designed for linux.

Dont know about older versions of Linux, but on Mint 19, I simply went to this site https://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/audacity Clicked on the Install on the right and followed the prompts ( mainly permissions) and it installed fine, one part it did take a while but its also saying please wait..

This is Mint 19 on a VM with Audiacity installed and working as it should:

9068

piroska
05-10-2018, 03:54 PM
Ah but you see Wine Is Not an Emulator!
https://www.winehq.org/
It is a compatibility layer, not the same at all

Wine emulates the Windows runtime environment by translating Windows system calls into POSIX-compliant system calls, recreating the directory structure of Windows systems, and providing alternative implementations of Windows system libraries, system services through wineserver and various other components (such as Internet Explorer, the Windows Registry Editor, and msiexec).

Blah...blah...I don't really care.
It works. Good enough for me.

Kame
05-10-2018, 04:20 PM
I was trying to explain it without suggesting it's an emulator.

An emulator imitates the functions while wine may seem like this, it actually translates the functions to something the OS understands, you would normally call that a subsystem or in wine's case a compatibility layer.

So an emulator will create the actual function to do the task, e.g if Windows had jump() the emulator will also have the function jump() but the programming may not be exact while wine sees jump() it will call the hosts OS function which maybe leap() and translates that back to something that is understood back to the program.

I haven't kept up with ReactOS but this was an OS with the aim of becoming binary compatible with Windows with a lot of the code created from wine. You could say this is a Windows clone. When I last tried it, it resembled Windows 2000/XP.

Audacity does work in Linux but for proprietary formats like .mp3, etc you need to install the plugins. It will work directly with the .ogg format. Try installing gstreamer plugins the good, bad and ugly. Just 'apt search gstreamer' then look for those 3 plugins. Also you may want to search for 'restricted' as mint may have a package that installs all the required plugins/codecs needed. It normally offers to do this for you during installation.

SurferJoe46
05-10-2018, 05:46 PM
I was trying to explain it without suggesting it's an emulator.

An emulator imitates the functions while wine may seem like this, it actually translates the functions to something the OS understands, you would normally call that a subsystem or in wine's case a compatibility layer.

So an emulator will create the actual function to do the task, e.g if Windows had jump() the emulator will also have the function jump() but the programming may not be exact while wine sees jump() it will call the hosts OS function which maybe leap() and translates that back to something that is understood back to the program.

I haven't kept up with ReactOS but this was an OS with the aim of becoming binary compatible with Windows with a lot of the code created from wine. You could say this is a Windows clone. When I last tried it, it resembled Windows 2000/XP.

Audacity does work in Linux but for proprietary formats like .mp3, etc you need to install the plugins. It will work directly with the .ogg format. Try installing gstreamer plugins the good, bad and ugly. Just 'apt search gstreamer' then look for those 3 plugins. Also you may want to search for 'restricted' as mint may have a package that installs all the required plugins/codecs needed. It normally offers to do this for you during installation.

....... and the International Date Line has me at it's mercy again.

This'll have to wait for the morning.

I really am getting some understandable information here - thanks to everyone. FWIW: I printed out your instructions for the morrow!

wainuitech
05-10-2018, 06:06 PM
. Also you may want to search for 'restricted' as mint may have a package that installs all the required plugins/codecs needed. It normally offers to do this for you during installation. When you install Mint, it asks to download and install media Players, required codecs from third party suppliers etc, its an option not a requirement, if this option is chosen theres a good chance they will already be there.

That's what I did with the VM /mint 19, as per the link also supplied installed Aduiacity, dragged a MP3 and it worked perfectly fine.

Older versions of mint may not be so accommodating, but that's like ANY OS -- the newer versions make things easier, (read as dumbs them down) :p guess its the keeping up with progress. Newer Versions Of mint will have more features than older. BUT some still want to bury their heads in the sand, which is fine if happy with an older version.

Take the Aduiacity, piece of cake after a quick google search "Aduiacity mint" = 1st result ;)

fred_fish
05-10-2018, 06:42 PM
Question ------> if one is running a truly older desktop, then an earlier iteration of Linux should be all well-n-good - right?

Old hardware may dislike a newer distro. I need to run Linux Mint 17.3 'cause of my older 'puter.

9067No.
Old hardware is supported very well by the linux kernel (unless you’re talking nearly prehistoric - 486 support has just been removed f.e.).
Old releases will also have (well documented) security issues that will never be patched.
Use a current release and, if necessary, pick a DE or WM that is less resource hungry than Cinnamon/Gnome etc.
LXDE is a pretty complete and preconfigured Openbox setup that should be pretty usable on most crufty old boxes. Of course, Blender etc. will still struggle so you’ll have to pick your apps to suit as well.

ianhnz
06-10-2018, 12:16 PM
By all means run both, But I wouldn't dual boot. You would be better off having one set as a VM (Virtual Machine) Of course the main thing is you need to have a computer thats powerful enough to run a VM as well as the hardware is capable.

Running as VM's you can try many different OS's without effecting the host OS. Heres an example on this PC (VM) I can run any one of those in conjunction with the Host OS (Windows 10)

9066


In case you're interested, mint 12 is quite old - the latest is Mint 19. Trying to find help unless you have a friendly person who knows Linux can be painful.
Sorry, quite right, is 19.
I'm still trying to used to it.
I did a linux cause, years ago, called unix I think and cant remember any of the commands.
Must be old age, Gold card & all.

ianhnz
06-10-2018, 12:17 PM
No.
Old hardware is supported very well by the linux kernel (unless you’re talking nearly prehistoric - 486 support has just been removed f.e.).
Old releases will also have (well documented) security issues that will never be patched.
Use a current release and, if necessary, pick a DE or WM that is less resource hungry than Cinnamon/Gnome etc.
LXDE is a pretty complete and preconfigured Openbox setup that should be pretty usable on most crufty old boxes. Of course, Blender etc. will still struggle so you’ll have to pick your apps to suit as well.
The computer I'm using is about 18 month old.
It has 5 processors & 8 b's ram.
Running so much better on Linux.

ianhnz
06-10-2018, 12:23 PM
I bought my first desktop, about 2003.
Was an SX25 with 8 MB ram and windows 3.
Moved to windows 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98 and finally XP, which I still think was their best windows.
After all these years I finally got sick of windows 10 and gone to Linux mint, 12 I think?
Had it about 3 weeks and not missed a beat.
Was thinking of doing a dual boot but my windows guy says better to stick with Linux.
What you guys think?
If so whats best way of doing it?
Sorry was noy 2003, dah was 1992.....

ianhnz
06-10-2018, 12:25 PM
Though was a bit strange.
I posted this a few days back and thought funny had no email to say someone had replied.
Dont know how to check why this is not working???

wainuitech
06-10-2018, 03:38 PM
Though was a bit strange.
I posted this a few days back and thought funny had no email to say someone had replied.
Dont know how to check why this is not working??? Try this, log into your account, Settings (top right) - On Left, General Settings - Under "Messaging & Notification" Locate "Default Thread Subscription Mode:" Options there.

ianhnz
06-10-2018, 04:39 PM
Try this, log into your account, Settings (top right) - On Left, General Settings - Under "Messaging & Notification" Locate "Default Thread Subscription Mode:" Options there.

Thank you, I hope,
Ian

mzee
07-10-2018, 04:10 PM
No problem dual booting Windows 7,8 & 10 (have not tried xp) with Mint 18.3
Assuming that Windows is already installed, the easiest way to do it is to provide an unallocated space of not less than 20GB on a hard drive. When you install Mint it will ask you if you wish to install Mint alongside the current OS, Yes. Mint will format the unallocated space into 1 ext4 partition, and 1 Linux Swap partition. Windows will be listed in the Mint start menu.

mzee
07-10-2018, 04:13 PM
No problem dual booting Windows 7,8 & 10 (have not tried xp) with Mint 18.3
Assuming that Windows is already installed, the easiest way to do it is to provide an unallocated space of not less than 20GB on a hard drive. When you install Mint it will ask you if you wish to install Mint alongside the current OS, Yes. Mint will format the unallocated space into 1 ext4 partition, and 1 Linux Swap partition. Windows will be listed in the Mint start menu.

ianhnz
07-10-2018, 04:20 PM
No problem dual booting Windows 7,8 & 10 (have not tried xp) with Mint 18.3
Assuming that Windows is already installed, the easiest way to do it is to provide an unallocated space of not less than 20GB on a hard drive. When you install Mint it will ask you if you wish to install Mint alongside the current OS, Yes. Mint will format the unallocated space into 1 ext4 partition, and 1 Linux Swap partition. Windows will be listed in the Mint start menu.

My boot sector had a major problem, after another windows update.
My computer guy removed windows and installed Mint 19 as a standalone.
Been toldit possible to run it inside windows, cause in the past I did that with Linux but no idea how to do that???

ianhnz
07-10-2018, 04:21 PM
Thank you, I hope,
Ian

Latest posting came through, so we musta fixed it.

wainuitech
07-10-2018, 04:53 PM
My boot sector had a major problem, after another windows update.
My computer guy removed windows and installed Mint 19 as a standalone.
Been toldit possible to run it inside windows, cause in the past I did that with Linux but no idea how to do that??? Hence the reason behind my earlier comment #3
You would be better off having one set as a VM (Virtual Machine) Of course the main thing is you need to have a computer that's powerful enough to run a VM as well as the hardware is capable.

A VM isn't going to screw up the boot loaders, and you can run both at the same time, side by side or on top of one another, changing between them as you feel the need :) With Linux you'll have to install a VM, the popular ones are VirtualBox and VMware.

IF you had Windows 10 Pro as a Host OS (the main OS) then you can use the inbuilt Hyper-V or the before mentioned Programs.

If Linux is the Host OS then you can run other distros as well as Windows in a VM -- The biggest drawback is the Computer must be capable of running a VM.

Heres What I'm talking about, :nerd: the screen shot below has a THREE operating systems running at once --Windows 10 Pro ( you can see it peaking underneath at the bottom) as the Main OS, running two VM's same time Mint 19 (on the right) and CentOS (on the Left)
The CentOS Linux distribution is a stable, predictable, manageable and reproducible platform derived from the sources of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)--Enterprise software, not the noob versions.

Of course you can minimize the VM's or expand them out to Full screen jumping between any of them :)

9071

ianhnz
07-10-2018, 04:58 PM
Hence the reason behind my earlier comment #3

A VM isn't going to screw up the boot loaders, and you can run both at the same time, side by side or on top of one another, changing between them as you feel the need :) With Linux you'll have to install a VM, the popular ones are VirtualBox and VMware.

IF you had Windows 10 Pro as a Host OS (the main OS) then you can use the inbuilt Hyper-V or the before mentioned Programs.

If Linux is the Host OS then you can run other distros as well as Windows in a VM -- The biggest drawback is the Computer must be capable of running a VM.

Heres What I'm talking about, :nerd: the screen shot below has a THREE operating systems running at once --Windows 10 Pro ( you can see it peaking underneath at the bottom) as the Main OS, running two VM's same time Mint 19 (on the right) and CentOS (on the Left) --Enterprise software, not the noob versions.

Of course you can minimize the VM's or expand them out to Full screen jumping between any of them :)

9071

Soundsway to complicated, for me.
I'vebeen unwell for about 5 years and last time I run Linux was about 6year ago, so a big learning curve, for me.
Washoping there was a, simple way?

wainuitech
07-10-2018, 05:48 PM
Its actually not hard at all.

To be honest have not had a linux OS as the host with others as VM's. The problem may be different Linux OS's may require different methods to install a VM Machine.

BUT the way it goes is, you install What ever VM programs you want (like any other program) The when opening the program install the OS inside that either from a ISO or DVD/CD

SurferJoe46
08-10-2018, 05:03 PM
Dumb question time ........

What if you tried to put a VM in your 'puter and it wasn't physically capable of running it.

Would you do any damage and/or just totally wipe out whatever host you have running (successfully, I am saying - a working version of Mint, f'rinstance.)?

Just asking - haven't done anything foolish this week (yet).

wainuitech
08-10-2018, 05:54 PM
Dumb question time ........

What if you tried to put a VM in your 'puter and it wasn't physically capable of running it.

Would you do any damage and/or just totally wipe out whatever host you have running (successfully, I am saying - a working version of Mint, f'rinstance.)?

Just asking - haven't done anything foolish this week (yet). 1st you would have to have VM program installed. If the Computer cant run one then nought would happen.

A VM Program is just that a program that works with the Host OS and hardware, enabling another OS to run in a virtual environment - if one isn't up to speck nothing will work.

Bit like saying the cars got all its wheels missing as someone put them in the back seat - it aint going anywhere ;)

Kame
08-10-2018, 09:40 PM
The VM should warn you that it won't work.

In this case, all it's done is installed itself and wasted your time. You may as well uninstall it. It should not affect your host.

If it works, it will create a virtual disk (a pretend hard drive made from free space). If you no longer want it, you just delete it like it were a file and the vm manager will be none the wiser other than to tell you it cant find it at its location anymore.