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mzee
29-04-2018, 09:05 PM
I had an email from Microsoft Insiders about the new major update for Windows 10.
I am tempted, but my computers are triple booted, and I think it may demolish my boot setup. I would of course make a new full backup before updating Windows, but if it is likely to corrupt a system that works well, I may skip it.

What are the chances of it being a disaster?

wainuitech
29-04-2018, 10:04 PM
I had an email from Microsoft Insiders about the new major update for Windows 10.
I am tempted, but my computers are triple booted, and I think it may demolish my boot setup. I would of course make a new full backup before updating Windows, but if it is likely to corrupt a system that works well, I may skip it.

What are the chances of it being a disaster? The chances are the same as/ with ANY OS. Sometimes it all goes to plan other times it doesn't.

Had Windows /Linux Dual boot, Linux did some updates and blew away the dual boot option, had the same thing happen the other way around.

BTW: You can manually download the new ISO "Officially" on Tuesday (Monday USA Time) The official push out via Windows updates start is 10th May.

"unofficially" you can get it NOW -- The Official 17134.1 ESDs have been been available for a few days, or there is other ways to get the ISO's, Got 3 PC's running the new version for a while now, runs smooth as, no problems what so ever, AND there's one change I'm personally going to like using :devil --------- This question is for Techs or people who help others ---HOW many times have people said " I didn't go to ???? Site or open anything" (similar wording) -- Now you can see and ccleaner wont remove them --- I'm saying no more at the moment :D

B.M.
30-04-2018, 08:08 AM
there's one change I'm personally going to like using :devil --------- This question is for Techs or people who help others ---HOW many times have people said " I didn't go to ???? Site or open anything" (similar wording) -- Now you can see and ccleaner wont remove them --- I'm saying no more at the moment :D

Is that the feature of Win10 that calls home to tell Microsoft all about which “Porn Sites” one visits? :D

Yes your personal browsing history is important to Microsoft. :rolleyes:

piroska
30-04-2018, 09:13 AM
[QUOTE=wainuitech;1275999Now you can see and ccleaner wont remove them [/QUOTE]

That's a good thing is it?

wainuitech
30-04-2018, 01:43 PM
That's a good thing is it? Yes it is a good thing. In fact it was proven this morning. Just got back from installing a couple of new PC's Someone had ordered from me. The New W10 is on them. 1803

What happened was the lady whom was using the new PC went for her morning break, while I was setting up the other PC her boss was heard to be mumbling something (complaining). He was saying ( lets call her sue) Was working on an important document that another of their clients was waiting for on the phone. No one else knew how or where the document was, and she wouldn't be back for another 15 Minutes. I thought Hmmmmmm-- Said lets see- click on the icon, there was the document - is that it ?? fu**en great :clap was the reply --Problem solved.

Sure you can get it from Word/File/ open recent but that's the long way about. BUT if you run ccleaner it will also remove recent files on some computers.

After a while one of the other bosses came out and asked why their W10 didn't have this option -- Its coming I replied and explained -- you work weekends was the reply?? We want the whole office upgraded ASAP.

The 4 Network Printers picked up automatically and installed, no need to download software - couldn't have been easier. ( Linux wont do that) :p

Johny C
30-04-2018, 02:15 PM
Is there any links yet to get the update iso without using the creation tool ?

linw
30-04-2018, 04:43 PM
Interesting story, WT.

piroska
30-04-2018, 04:45 PM
sue working on an important document . No one else knew how or where the document was. I thought Hmmmmmm-- Said lets see- click on the icon, there was the document - is that it ??

Er....a word doc.
Right. BUt you said:

"-HOW many times have people said " I didn't go to ???? Site or open anything" (similar wording) -- Now you can see and ccleaner wont remove them"

Can't see the connection.
I would have thought Porn sites staying in History was not a good thing.

Regardless of word docs.

1101
30-04-2018, 05:24 PM
I would have thought Porn sites staying in History was not a good thing.

Regardless of word docs.

often you want to be able to check on staffers, kids, clients to see where they've been browsing

wainuitech
30-04-2018, 05:25 PM
Er....a word doc.
Right. BUt you said:

"-HOW many times have people said " I didn't go to ???? Site or open anything" (similar wording) -- Now you can see and ccleaner wont remove them"

Can't see the connection.
I would have thought Porn sites staying in History was not a good thing.

Regardless of word docs. I was using a word doc as an example that happened today, that is one of the items its designed for.

Web Sites also stay for 30 days if using Edge ( may change for other browsers in the future).

A clean example of a web site --- how many times have we all gone to some site looking for something, or just browsing, didn't book mark some site because we didn't think it was important at the time. BUT a few days later something happens and you go -- Damn I saw something about that the other day but cant remember the site ( insert many frustrated words trying to remember) History will be gone if a cleaner has been run, but it will still be available if the option hasn't been disabled in the settings.

If someone goes looking at porn sites that's their business. But where it will help, and how many times have customers said "no ones gone to ??? type of sites" or downloaded something that's dodgy.( yeah right) Now you can look to see what was downloaded that may be causing a problem. That's not really what its designed for but it can be used. You can remove any listing you want, or all of them.

Here's a good clean example -- A screen shot of 2 days ago, several visits to PF1 relating to trouble with a SSD Clone by Bryan - pages to the Samsung cloning software after reading the PF1 Forum Question.

and insider Forum Articles relating to a KB that's out.

8801


To answer Johny C -- The esd's which MS use to put out any upgrades are available tomorrow, or meant to by the creation tool as well, which you can make ISO's from. Its due out officially tomorrow (well 30th in the USA)

The way I have them already is grabbing from MS servers with a script that uses the media creation tool to unlock the download (supplied by someone on the insider forum), the new tool which will do the same is the official one. There are other methods as well to get them from Microsoft (official download).

1101
30-04-2018, 06:03 PM
Web Sites also stay for 30 days if using Edge ( may change for other browsers in the future).

.

does the "clear browsing history " not remove that history now ?

wainuitech
30-04-2018, 06:19 PM
does the "clear browsing history " not remove that history now ? That remains the same as before.

Before the PARANOID (and we know whom) ;) starts jumping up and down, like all the settings they can be disabled--- This is called "learning what your operating system can do" :p

This is just one good thing about preview builds (insider), by the time it goes public you can learn all the new options. :D

https://pureinfotech.com/disable-timeline-windows-10/

EDITED: in the article -
It’s worth noting that this feature doesn’t clear of the data Microsoft collects about you, Again, can be turned off :) BUT these people who complain also don't seem to care that their browsers are sending info ( no matter what OS), smart phones tack and collect data ya de ya de ya :D

piroska
30-04-2018, 08:26 PM
Right, so nothing new then.
You can clear history, you gave me the impression you couldn't.

As for seeing where someone went, there ARE other places browsing history lurks, and clearing it from the actual browser doesn't wipe that out.
It's how I used to check if someone denied going to certain sites. But any tech would know that....

I can think of situations where not having porn in the history is good, like when the kid goes on, my GD knows about history, it would be rather awkward if she was to find something like that in her parents PC.

Lucky there isn't....

wainuitech
30-04-2018, 09:40 PM
It's how I used to check if someone denied going to certain sites. But any tech would know that....
You're dead right theres other places, but cant go giving away all the "secrets" eh !!

Mind you any tech worth doing a job would also keep up with the play, and not bury their head in the sand when the manufactures move onward with technology, there's lots that don't want to learn something new, and soon get left behind. This goes for ALL OS's be it Windows, Linux or iOS.

The new timeline, the majority of "general Users" wont have a clue its there

piroska
01-05-2018, 08:44 AM
Mind you any tech worth doing a job would also keep up with the play, and not bury their head in the sand when the manufactures move onward with technology

But I'm not a tech anymore, I stopped before I installed Linux.
You know that, you bought some of my stuff.

B.M.
01-05-2018, 08:48 AM
You're dead right theres other places, but cant go giving away all the "secrets" eh !!

Oh excellent, so by your own admission, there are numerous sneaky and secret access points where Microsoft can gather your information.

I can see the headlines, “Microsoft, major suppliers of Spyware”. :rolleyes:

wainuitech
01-05-2018, 08:56 AM
Oh excellent, so by your own admission, there are numerous sneaky and secret access points where Microsoft can gather your information.

I can see the headlines, “Microsoft, major suppliers of Spyware”. :rolleyes: its the programs that gather /store the information. Programs Like Firefox, Chrome and many others. just because you use linux B.M Doesn't mean any of your info isn't being sent back to whom ever.

As I mentioned in the Linux post -- Read that linux 18.3 sends info back to the developers -- Surprise :)

ANY how -- just checked and the upgrade is coming through, you wouldn't know it by the computer, NO speed drop, working 100%, lets see how long it takes.

wainuitech
01-05-2018, 09:37 AM
Well that upgrade was quick. Got a message pop up saying it needed to reboot, several options, Clicked reboot, went and had my shower, came back and all set to go waiting for me to enter the login password.

mzee
01-05-2018, 09:57 AM
I have been reading the fine print on the insiders page and understand that if the latest W10 update is installed 'Group Policy' editor will no longer work. If this is the case I will once again be continually interrupted by automatic updates.

autechre
01-05-2018, 10:11 AM
Once again, nothing really compelling in this update.

If you're running Firefox, you might want to upgrade to 59.0.3 - https://www.ghacks.net/2018/04/30/firefox-59-0-3/

Speedy Gonzales
01-05-2018, 10:15 AM
Group policy still works here after updating to 1803 through WU

However, networking / folder sharing doesn't work now. It did, before this update. Unless I'm doing something wrong

1101
01-05-2018, 10:33 AM
Oh excellent, so by your own admission, there are numerous sneaky and secret access points where Microsoft can gather your information.

I can see the headlines, “Microsoft, major suppliers of Spyware”. :rolleyes:

Ah,
you mean just like Android ph's , MAC's , ithings ,printer software, printer hardware, SOME TV's (yes that happened) , most websites, most free email services , search engines , etc etc etc
:)

Speedy Gonzales
01-05-2018, 11:35 AM
Group policy still works here after updating to 1803 through WU

However, networking / folder sharing doesn't work now. It did, before this update. Unless I'm doing something wrong

Scratch that had to turn password protection off again

B.M.
01-05-2018, 02:21 PM
Ah,
you mean just like Android ph's , MAC's , ithings ,printer software, printer hardware, SOME TV's (yes that happened) , most websites, most free email services , search engines , etc etc etc
:)

Next thing you’ll be telling me that people in Northland steal, people in Auckland steal, people in the Waikato steal, in fact in every province in NZ, and in fact worldwide, people steal, so it must be acceptable.

Well not here it ain’t.

Cuff ‘em and stuff ‘em I say! :)

wainuitech
01-05-2018, 02:48 PM
Next thing you’ll be telling me that people in Northland steal, people in Auckland steal, people in the Waikato steal, in fact in every province in NZ, and in fact worldwide, people steal, so it must be acceptable.

Well not here it ain’t.

Cuff ‘em and stuff ‘em I say! :) Best dump your computers ( no matter what OS is installed), Mobile phones and everything else that uses the internet or Telecommunications around the country /world. Doesn't matter what the device is, if it goes on the internet someone somewhere will be tracking or collecting data.

In bold in your quote -- If you really meant that ;) you would no longer post or even come onto PF1. They are tracking you via your Browser.

Try doing something really Illegal and bad via your computer that would get the attention of places like the FBI and see how long it takes to find you.

Personally there's been several times I glad google track my phone, it really helps when I lose it, could be because its dropped out of my pocket or I leave it someplace by mistake, go onto "Find my Phone" - and it locates it, can even make it ring at full volume or wipe its contents if required.

piroska
01-05-2018, 04:02 PM
Read that linux 18.3 sends info back to the developers -- Surprise :)
.
It can. It may. It isn't just a it does though. I have Sylvia and chose not to have anything sent.

wainuitech
01-05-2018, 04:36 PM
It can. It may. It isn't just a it does though. I have Sylvia and chose not to have anything sent. One HUGE difference, you're not a noob average user. Having Skills is a big advantage. Take the other post where the scanner is a single word command -- That DOES freak out lots of people.


Any typing command to some is like a different language, a few weeks ago I had to try and talk some one through opening the inbuilt (by default) windows remote desktop app. :waughh: I didn't want to do a 1 hour round trip to fix the persons problem, it was literally double click this right click that- single click - fixed.

On The phone - Trying to get the guy to either press the Windows Key + R or type in quick assist in the search was a nightmare, he simply couldn't do it. In the end the following day I called back when his wife was home and she did it in a second, remoted in, double click - Right click- single click - sorted :)

1101
01-05-2018, 04:49 PM
On The phone - Trying to get the guy to either press the Windows Key + R or type in quick assist in the search was a nightmare, he simply couldn't do it. In the end the following day I called back when his wife was home and she did it in a second, remoted in, double click - Right click- single click - sorted :)

tell the client, double click the TeamVeiwer icon on the desktop
I cant see it, its not there
Are you sure, I know I put it on the desktop.
cant see it , its not there.
So I go through the very .. very painfull process of explaining how to download & run TV. Not easy when they have zero PC skills ...... :badpc:
remote in, yep, there it is,TV QS, on the desktop where I put it. :mad:

piroska
01-05-2018, 07:32 PM
One HUGE difference, you're not a noob average user. :)
Er...in Linux, that's exactly what I am.

I may have done Windows for 20 yrs, but only been doing Linux for 5 months. ish....

wainuitech
01-05-2018, 09:24 PM
Er...in Linux, that's exactly what I am.

I may have done Windows for 20 yrs, but only been doing Linux for 5 months. ish.... There's noobs then there's beginners LOL.

Cant really see you Piroska going into panic mode over having to do some command prompt work.

Was at a persons place last week, opened CMD and started typing several different commands ( DISM commands) the look on their faces was priceless, as WTF is that ???

mzee
02-05-2018, 12:26 AM
I have just updated one of my Dell Vostro 1015 computer's (I collect them :) to W10 V1803. No problems, no data lost. Only had to reinstall a couple of programs, and my phone. Its early days, but so far not too impressed. Slower than it was. Control Panel is not on the right click start menu, have to search for it.

wainuitech
02-05-2018, 09:20 AM
I have just updated one of my Dell Vostro 1015 computer's (I collect them :) to W10 V1803. No problems, no data lost. Only had to reinstall a couple of programs, and my phone. Its early days, but so far not too impressed. Slower than it was. Control Panel is not on the right click start menu, have to search for it. The control panel on the right click menu was removed over a year ago, there's been a couple of builds / Upgrades released since then. Its easy enough to get it back, simply click in search, type in Control, then You can either pin it to the start or task bar.

Non of mine here have slowed down, the exact opposite actually.

pcuser42
02-05-2018, 09:22 AM
The Windows 10 upgrade went better than the Ubuntu upgrade I did, nothing broke :lol:
The control panel on the right click menu was removed over a year ago, there's been a couple of builds / Upgrades released since then. Its easy enough to get it back, simply click in search, type in Control, then You can either pin it to the start or task bar. I didn't even notice it was gone :lol:

autechre
02-05-2018, 09:59 AM
The control panel on the right click menu was removed over a year ago

Yep. Such a pain. The Settings app is a poor replacement. Its much larger - too much white space, and slower.

However, Microsoft is moving everything to it eventually. so better get used to it :badpc: :yuck:

1101
02-05-2018, 11:02 AM
Yep. Such a pain. The Settings app is a poor replacement. Its much larger - too much white space, and slower.

However, Microsoft is moving everything to it eventually. so better get used to it :badpc: :yuck:

Not really. Still plenty of important setting that you have to use control panel for.
Having Control Panel and "Settings" shows just what a half arsed hash up parts of Win10 still is.

Since MS want us to stop using control panel, either remove it and move EVERYTHING to " settings" or stop trying to hide it :badpc:
Insert BM's comment here :)

Downloading April 10 update now on the test laptop.
Im surprised it was available straight away via Winupdates, I thought MS usually stagger the release of major build downloads , so not everyone is trying to download at once

wainuitech
02-05-2018, 11:53 AM
Some people complain that the "setting" is to sparse, and rather have the Old Control panel, easy enough, but what I sometimes do is make available the old folder that's been called "God Mode" usually shuts them up as it overwhelms with ALL the functions :D

Simple enough to create, simply right click somewhere ( desktop is good) New - Folder, Name it (you can copy paste the code below into the name)

GodMode.{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C}

And bingo almost every setting you can want. You can call it something else apart from God Mode, but the numbers/letters - . and { } Must remain.

mzee
02-05-2018, 01:32 PM
Cleaned out a lot of rubbish, now speed is back to normal.
I had forgotten about God Mode. :)

coldot
02-05-2018, 10:08 PM
Upgraded 3 PCs overnight. But ended up with one odd icon telling me to install something - but it wouldn't tell me what and it wouldn't go away. After trying several MS update fixers I had to drag out my original MS Office 2010 install CD and let Windows 10 search for what it needed until it was fixed. It seems that my Windows has retained all the Office upgrades for the past 7 years and took only the bits that it needed from the CD.

1101
03-05-2018, 11:00 AM
Ran the update on 4 machines yesterday, via ISO from MS burnt to DVD.
All updated from within running Win .

Brand new PC , straight out of the box : no issues
Very old laptop , un-activated 10 , quite old 10 build : no issues

2 laptops : same brand , different model & spec. Both brand new straight out of the box
The cheap & nasty : no problems
the higher spec i5,SSD laptop : 1803 would not install, fails at 1% then restarts .

So, 1/4 failed . Given it wont install in a brand new laptop ... Im guessing alot of people will have issues

The laptop it failed on, twice, of course after that it tried to re-download & re-try : so thats a major issue right there if it just keeps re-downloading .
A banana to MS for that :banana :banana
:badpc:

1101
03-05-2018, 11:57 AM
Holly crap . No Spectre patch for 1803
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/05/01/all-the-issues-of-windows-10-version-1803-you-may-run-into/

"No microcode update to protect the system against Spectre attacks. Microsoft released updates only for Windows 10 version 1709 and earlier and has not incorporated the updates into Windows 10 version 1803. If you installed the update on the PC in an earlier version and ran the update afterward, you will notice that the PC is no longer protected. Tip: run InSpectre to verify."

wainuitech
03-05-2018, 01:37 PM
Holly crap . No Spectre patch for 1803
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/05/01/all-the-issues-of-windows-10-version-1803-you-may-run-into/

"No microcode update to protect the system against Spectre attacks. Microsoft released updates only for Windows 10 version 1709 and earlier and has not incorporated the updates into Windows 10 version 1803. If you installed the update on the PC in an earlier version and ran the update afterward, you will notice that the PC is no longer protected. Tip: run InSpectre to verify."

That's more than Likely (and only my opinion) That Intel haven't supplied patches yet for the New OS. Intel was warning people and companies / Manufactures NOT to install the Patches as it was causing a LOT of unwanted reboots.

Spectre is Hardware based (CPU) while meltdown is still covered, just ran the test and the CPU was the only problem. So until Intel get their act together it would be a huge problem if MS put out a knowing patch that will cause problem ( that would go down really well ) ;)

1101
03-05-2018, 06:01 PM
anyone having issues with Chrome freezing

after running 24hours without an issue, had some random freezing this afternoon .
Chrome was open & downloading software etc, but cant say for sure chrome caused it . OS freeze not hardware freeze (as caps lock light still turned on/off ok)
very frustrating , as have to wipe & reload older Win10 version or even go back to 7 .

B.M.
03-05-2018, 06:04 PM
That's more than Likely (and only my opinion) That Intel haven't supplied patches yet for the New OS. Intel was warning people and companies / Manufactures NOT to install the Patches as it was causing a LOT of unwanted reboots.

Spectre is Hardware based (CPU) while meltdown is still covered, just ran the test and the CPU was the only problem. So until Intel get their act together it would be a huge problem if MS put out a knowing patch that will cause problem ( that would go down really well ) ;)

Excuses, excuses, always someone else's fault. :lol: :rolleyes:

Speedy Gonzales
03-05-2018, 06:41 PM
anyone having issues with Chrome freezing

after running 24hours without an issue, had some random freezing this afternoon .
Chrome was open & downloading software etc, but cant say for sure chrome caused it . OS freeze not hardware freeze (as caps lock light still turned on/off ok)
very frustrating , as have to wipe & reload older Win10 version or even go back to 7 .

Looks like it's a known prob (https://www.neowin.net/news/google-chrome-is-freezing-intermittently-with-the-windows-10-april-2018-update)

I dont use it myself tho

wainuitech
03-05-2018, 09:11 PM
Excuses, excuses, always someone else's fault. :lol: :rolleyes: Look it up, it IS Intel's, AMD problem. And guess what it can happen on ALL OS's including LINUX. Its NOT OS related. Oh wait -- your PC runs on crap- guess that's not effected.

The CPU manufactures supply patches to MS which caused shutdowns and all other sorts of problems. Cant really see BIOS flashes being forced out over the internet.


The Spectre flaw affected nearly every modern computing device, including those with chips from Intel, Advanced Micro Devices Inc (AMD.O) and ARM Holdings.



Guess you're not smart enough to figure out the difference between a hardware or software problem.

wainuitech
03-05-2018, 10:26 PM
anyone having issues with Chrome freezing

after running 24hours without an issue, had some random freezing this afternoon .
Chrome was open & downloading software etc, but cant say for sure chrome caused it . OS freeze not hardware freeze (as caps lock light still turned on/off ok)
very frustrating , as have to wipe & reload older Win10 version or even go back to 7 . The current train of fixing is in Chrome disable hardware Acceleration , Settings / Advanced / Scroll down to System Switch off "Use hardware acceleration when available" ( its on by default)

8806

1101
04-05-2018, 09:57 AM
The current train of fixing is in Chrome disable hardware Acceleration , Settings / Advanced / Scroll down to System Switch off "Use hardware acceleration when available" ( its on by default)

8806

MS are working on a fix . Its not just chrome, some other apps also cause the freezing , eg Hey Cortana
fix due in the next update, 8May.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_cortana/some-devices-may-hang-or-freeze-when-using-certain/612a341b-340a-4ac0-8866-df5346327a52

Its quite intermittent. Chrome is the 1st thing I install on 10 (I hate edge) , & use chrome to download the other software etc.
Freezing maybee once every 45minutes on the new PC , the new laptop doesnt seem to have this issue (yet)

I guess MS are so wrapped up in Edge, they never are allowed to put Chrome on their test PC's
But Cortana causing they same issue...... obviously no real descent testing of this major update.
BM was right all along (only kidding)

These 6 monthly major build updates issues are doing real harm to MS's reputation.

wainuitech
04-05-2018, 10:06 AM
MS are working on a fix . Its not just chrome, some other apps also cause the freezing , eg Hey Cortana
fix due in the next update, 8May.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_cortana/some-devices-may-hang-or-freeze-when-using-certain/612a341b-340a-4ac0-8866-df5346327a52

Its quite intermittent. Chrome is the 1st thing I install on 10 (I hate edge) , & use chrome to download the other software etc.
Freezing maybee once every 45minutes on the new PC , the new laptop doesnt seem to have this issue (yet)

I guess MS are so wrapped up in Edge, they never are allowed to put Chrome on their test PC's
But Cortana causing they same issue...... obviously no real descent testing of this major update.
BM was right all along (only kidding)

These 6 monthly major build updates issues are doing real harm to MS's reputation.

Only had two freeze ups, and that was during beta Builds, it wasn't the OS, I know what the problem is just cant be bothered fixing it :) Its a fault on the VERY OLD hard Drive, when it gets to hot it plays silly buggers.

gary67
04-05-2018, 10:14 AM
Came across one problem that was an easy fix the mute light stopped working on the ute key on the keyboard, updated the realtek driver and its back, this on a HP laptop

1101
04-05-2018, 11:29 AM
God help us.
This hanging issue was known & reported 4 weeks before the general release
Insiders have been reporting the issue . MS ignored .

mzee
04-05-2018, 12:48 PM
The current train of fixing is in Chrome disable hardware Acceleration , Settings / Advanced / Scroll down to System Switch off "Use hardware acceleration when available" ( its on by default)

8806

You are right, this often fixes it in both Linux & Windows. Hardware Acceleration can also cause streaks & crackles on the screen.

B.M.
04-05-2018, 05:40 PM
BM was right all along (only kidding)

These 6 monthly major build updates issues are doing real harm to MS's reputation.

Windows 10 is nearly 3 years old and still they haven’t got it working properly and reliably.

What a laugh, if any motor vehicle manufacturer, or whatever, had produced such an unreliable new product they would have been well and truly out of business by now.

Personally, I’m picking we’ll witness the “Second Coming” before Windows 10 becomes a reliable Operating System. :)

wainuitech
04-05-2018, 08:22 PM
Windows 10 is nearly 3 years old and still they haven’t got it working properly and reliably.

What a laugh, if any motor vehicle manufacturer, or whatever, had produced such an unreliable new product they would have been well and truly out of business by now.

Personally, I’m picking we’ll witness the “Second Coming” before Windows 10 becomes a reliable Operating System. :) Linux brings out a new distro every 6 months, and still has problems, the same ones that have been happening over and over - Look at the other thread Piroska started where the wireless scanner wont work, works OK on hers but another family member seems to be having a nightmare. Why not put all your :2cents: of knowledge into helping.

For someone who Wants nothing to do With Windows BM you sure spout nothing but run down opinions. Damn troll !!

Nobody really cares what you like or don't like. Certainly of no help to anyone whom has problems ( Windows OR Linux).

B.M.
04-05-2018, 08:38 PM
God help us.
This hanging issue was known & reported 4 weeks before the general release
Insiders have been reporting the issue . MS ignored .

Well if what you say is correct 1101, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then Microsoft must have committed the “Cardinal Sin of Business” and released a knowingly faulty product.

They must have a Death Wish and the creditability of their faithful followers will go down with them. ;)

wainuitech
04-05-2018, 09:16 PM
God help us.
This hanging issue was known & reported 4 weeks before the general release
Insiders have been reporting the issue . MS ignored . Please provide link to actual insider article /report.

Things like that on insider builds are common, 4 weeks out its not signed off to release yet. Actual official release date is not till 8th May.

mzee
04-05-2018, 09:27 PM
No point in hating Windows. Most of the time I use Linux, but sometimes I use Windows because I need, and have the software, or it is simpler to do a specific task on Windows. I agree that doing a major update can cause problems, but you can disable auto updates, and be selective. I have updated one of my computers to version 1803, but will not be doing the others as there is nothing new which I need.

wainuitech
04-05-2018, 09:38 PM
but you can disable auto updates, and be selective Thats right, but many don't know that you can disable the upgrades for 365 days - A whole year. There's not tricky reg settings or disabling services manually its all in plain site in the update options.

linw
04-05-2018, 10:54 PM
B.M. why don't you clear off. Your trolling is so inappropriate in this forum. It was a relief for you to have shut up for a while but looks like you just can't control yourself.

Where are the mods when we need them?

Poppa John
05-05-2018, 08:34 PM
If it is Really a Major Update shouldn't that make it W11 now. PJ

wainuitech
05-05-2018, 09:03 PM
If it is Really a Major Update shouldn't that make it W11 now. PJ Microsoft have gone away from that model. There is the version scheduled to be out every 6 months. Its all Windows 10 but different editions.

The good thing about more releases is as long as you keep upto date the changes are not that great. ( unlike W8 -8.1)

Linux does the same thing, every 6 months there's a new version.

feersumendjinn
06-05-2018, 10:36 AM
Did anyone see this?
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/03/07/windows-10-s-mode-coming-soon-editions-windows-10/#JvT4C8q0WM6ckFRd.97
Does this mean if you apply the 1803 update, your installation will revert to 10 S whether you want it or not?
(Yeah I know (apparently) you can turn it off).:annoyed::badpc:
This would have cost you $49 (us) until M$ changed their mind.
Perhaps this may have something to do with reports of Chrome etc not working.

fred_fish
06-05-2018, 11:07 AM
Linux does the same thing, every 6 months there's a new version.

You've said this a couple of times now and either you are just deliberately talking ****, to pretend Win is not so bad after all, or you just really don't know how it works.

"Linux" is the kernel. Many different OS's use this kernel, and have different release cycles ranging from immediate (rolling) to years, depending on their purpose and target audience. You can use what suits your needs.

wainuitech
06-05-2018, 11:55 AM
You've said this a couple of times now and either you are just deliberately talking ****, to pretend Win is not so bad after all, or you just really don't know how it works.

"Linux" is the kernel. Many different OS's use this kernel, and have different release cycles ranging from immediate (rolling) to years, depending on their purpose and target audience. You can use what suits your needs. Not talking **** at all. So are you saying when A new version of Linux os comes out its the exact same as the previous ?? Now thats ****. The majority of users see the OS interface, not the kernel, well apart form die hards who have no life.

With Windows every version that comes out has minor changes from the previous, sometimes things have been removed sometimes things added. There are options in Version 1803 for example that aren't in any previous.

Funny how the linux users always rubbish Windows, maybe they suffer from personalty problems, after all take Mint there are 4 different options to select from. NOW if you said to a complete beginner go download Mint - a beginner wouldn't know the difference between the 4. Before you say there isnt 4 options -- stick this where you sit. The descriptions are about as unless as you.

8813


"Linux" is the kernel. Many different OS's use this kernel, and have different release cycles ranging from immediate (rolling) to years, depending on their purpose and target audience. You can use what suits your needs. That on its own is a problem. Sure some have specific use for a distro, but how many times have people asked what is he best to use -- Well you'll get many different answers depending on who answers. Again, as per the picture, which of the 4 if a person has no idea ?? And what ever you say, thats only your opinion, someone else may like a different interface.

wainuitech
06-05-2018, 12:21 PM
Did anyone see this?
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/03/07/windows-10-s-mode-coming-soon-editions-windows-10/#JvT4C8q0WM6ckFRd.97
Does this mean if you apply the 1803 update, your installation will revert to 10 S whether you want it or not?
(Yeah I know (apparently) you can turn it off).:annoyed::badpc:
This would have cost you $49 (us) until M$ changed their mind.
Perhaps this may have something to do with reports of Chrome etc not working. It may come with Windows S on New PC's as an option, but shouldn't on any upgraded unless you tell it to. Only problem is the toaster shops wont know the difference and more than likely get it all wrong.

The S version is more security based, this means you cant install any programs unless they come Via the windows store, there are quite a few options disappeared.

Tried it a few months back when the option was available, didn't like it. You can download and try if you want NOW, BUT you have to have version 1709: Windows 10 Pro, Windows 10 Pro Education, Windows 10 Education or Windows 10 Enterprise. The problem changing " to have a look" is once its installed, you cant roll back to the previous version you have.

Just found this article bit more info: https://redmondmag.com/articles/2018/03/08/windows-10-s-mode-changes.aspx

fred_fish
06-05-2018, 01:58 PM
**waffle**
So it's option 2 then...

wainuitech
06-05-2018, 02:52 PM
So it's option 2 then... Is that it for today ?? :confused: Must be a slow day, oh well :)

Here's some info for you -- Looks like the Kernel changes are quite frequent. 4.X 16 Changes in 3 years.

https://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxVersions

As for frequency of releases that most people associate with, lets have a look at Mint, it appears to be popular:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint_version_history

Now lets be honest -- a Average user, do they look (or even care) what the Kernel version is, or more interested in the user interface and what they can do with that.

fred_fish
06-05-2018, 03:37 PM
Is that it for today ?? :confused: Must be a slow day, oh well :)

Here's some info for you -- Looks like the Kernel changes are quite frequent. 4.X 16 Changes in 3 years.

https://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxVersions

As for frequency of releases that most people associate with, lets have a look at Mint, it appears to be popular:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint_version_history

Now lets be honest -- a Average user, do they look (or even care) what the Kernel version is, or more interested in the user interface and what they can do with that.
OK, so you're talking about Mint then ... you should have said.

Most distro's with a 'Fixed Release - longer support' model (Debian, Slackware, Red Hat/CentOS, OpenSuse etc.) generally use a single mainline kernel release (usually the most recent LTS one at time of release) and stay with that for the life of the release (backporting security fixes as appropriate).
This means stable ABI's and unchanging functionality - so regular updates bring in security improvements and don't break anything - it continues to work the same as when it was released.
For a lot of people and use cases this is a big advantage, but for some, new shiny things are more important, so there are also distro's that update things much more frequently, bringing support for new hardware, along with the latest new "bright ideas" of the various software devs.

Again, the beauty of having a choice - you can pick whatever suits you - for example, we don't all drive the same model of car, there are many variations to suit differing use cases, and most people seem to cope with that choice OK (or else get help deciding).

As for the proverbial "Average User", you just need to look at Win10 to see where catering to the Lowest Common Denominator gets you...

wainuitech
06-05-2018, 04:03 PM
OK, so you're talking about Mint then ... you should have said.


As for the proverbial "Average User", you just need to look at Win10 to see where catering to the Lowest Common Denominator gets you... Yep, Mint - Reason -- Thats because that's what the questions here are generally about. Its been well reported /marketed ( for the lack of a better word) that Mint is a beginners OS.

All the other "higher up" Distros the users generally don't need to ask for help on public forums as its beyond the knowledge base with maybe the exception of 1 or 2.

An example of that (windows based) how many posts are there relating to higher end Servers -- next to none here.


Lowest Common Denominator Thats the way the world is.

Look at all the main OS's, Linux, Windows and iOS-- Over the years they are all requiring less and less knowledge of the user to operate. Its only going to get "worse", everyone is slowing developing voice commands, soon you wont use a keyboard or mouse.

Look into the future - The Animated/Kids Movie Wall-E, may not be to far from the truth ??

fred_fish
06-05-2018, 05:22 PM
Yep, Mint - Reason -- ... Mint is a beginners OS.
...
Look at all the main OS's, Linux, Windows and iOSAgain, "Linux" is not an OS - Mint is an OS, Debian is an OS etc - they are all put together by different groups according to their particular priorities and how they want their OS to be. Choose one that fit's you.
Or, at least, don't make ignorant generalisations based on one distro.


Over the years they are all requiring less and less knowledge of the user to operate.Of course, being easier to use is a good thing, but often that comes at the expense of not being able to do complex things or removing choices that may be beneficial for some - when you can't 'opt-out' and don't fit into that particular box, that becomes a problem.
Also, as you so often note, knowing how your tools work, and how to use them properly should be encouraged, not locked away behind "dealer service only" signs.
Being able to choose an OS that works the way you want (or to be able to change it if it doesn't) is a good thing, not just having to put up with whatever someone (who, in the case of commercial OS's, has their own bottom line at heart) decides you should have.


Its only going to get "worse", everyone is slowing developing voice commands, soon you wont use a keyboard or mouse.

Look into the future - The Animated/Kids Movie Wall-E, may not be to far from the truth ??All well and good, but the "developments" being pushed out in Windows seem to be less about enabling users and more about increasing their monetary value to MS.
https://www.computerworld.com/article/2917799/microsoft-windows/microsoft-fleshes-out-windows-as-a-service-revenue-strategy.html

wainuitech
06-05-2018, 06:29 PM
Again, "Linux" is not an OS - Mint is an OS, Debian is an OS etc Technically that's true. If you look at it like that, then ya better jump on EVERY other Linux Titled thread in this forum, they all have the word "Linux" in the title, but actually refer to Mint. ;) Best keep an eye on the Forum- and jump on anyone who asks a "Linux" question to put them right :p


Windows seem to be less about enabling users and more about increasing their monetary value to MS. Last time I heard, making money if a business is the goal - Any Business that doesn't usually shuts down. Windows is a Product of Microsoft.

fred_fish
06-05-2018, 07:15 PM
Technically that's true.Apology accepted. :)


If you look at it like that, then ya better jump on EVERY other Linux Titled thread in this forum, they all have the word "Linux" in the title, but actually refer to Mint. ;) Best keep an eye on the Forum- and jump on anyone who asks a "Linux" question to put them right :pNo, I don't think so - there's a difference between "users" asking for help, and someone "knowledgeable" making uninformed claims about something.


Last time I heard, making money if a business is the goal - Any Business that doesn't usually shuts down. Windows is a Product of Microsoft.Yeah, but good ones do it by providing value to, rather than extracting value from, their customers.

wainuitech
06-05-2018, 07:46 PM
No, I don't think so - there's a difference between "users" asking for help, and someone "knowledgeable" making uninformed claims about something. Now Now, I've NEVER ever said I know a lot about Linux. I use variants on various devices around here. All the servers / Storage devices (with the exceptions of 1) Are Linux Based. I know enough about Linux to do basic tasks (repairing etc) but that about it. NEVER claimed any different. If you are on forums and start talking to technical it goes Zooooom Right over some peoples heads.

The Linux Based I'm referring to , And Thats THEIR wording


Open-E Data Storage Software V7 is a Linux-based data storage software used for building and managing centralized data storage servers - NAS and SAN
Is https://www.open-e.com/

Sure I have HDD's with Mint on, but rarely ever use it. A HIGH percentage of Users Refer to their OS as linux ( we all know that) and the usual question to follow if not stated is What Version ( referring to The OS Name) Bit like Windows some say I'm running windows 10 -- OK What Version ??? Then have to get that info, as its no point in sending someone looking for a setting if its not there yet :)

1101
07-05-2018, 10:14 AM
Please provide link to actual insider article /report.

Things like that on insider builds are common, 4 weeks out its not signed off to release yet. Actual official release date is not till 8th May.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/8gf68w/chrome_freezes_windows_after_april_update/
" Can anyone explain why this wasn't found before May? Insiders had 17134 for weeks in April (not to mention 17133, which might very well have the same issue). Was this really never reported before?! It never hit me, so I wasn't aware of it, but surely a lot of people had the right hardware to turn it up.

Update: So it was reported around a month ago in at least these submissions:

http://aka.ms/Ne4ziw

http://aka.ms/Nkqu6d

http://aka.ms/Cwn1sm

Now the question becomes why MS didn't pick up on these various reports and merge them into a "Collection," which would have been acknowledged by MS and been easier to find and upvote (one master issue vs. having smaller ones scattered around)."

Are other links & others mentioning they reported these issue

1101
07-05-2018, 10:17 AM
heres a list of all the issues . A long list :-)
Saying that, not every PC/laptop is affected . I only had issues on one of the machines I updates to 1803. But, the issues may be unseen
untill you've been using it for a couple of hours , as in my case.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3269773/microsoft-windows/win10-1803-bugs-roll-in-chrome-freezes-skype-burps-alienware-craters-and-hey-cortana.html

B.M.
07-05-2018, 12:10 PM
Remember THIS (https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/windows-10-anniversary-update-breaks-most-webcams/)? Well that was August 2016.

In the case of my wife’s laptop, the fix was to reinstall the Win 7 Driver.

However, with nearly every Windows 10 update or patch I’ve had to reinstall the Win 7 Webcam Driver again. The driver folder now sits on the desktop.

I know some of you think this is acceptable, but I don’t! :mad:

1101
07-05-2018, 12:20 PM
Remember THIS (https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/windows-10-anniversary-update-breaks-most-webcams/)? Well that was August 2016.

In the case of my wife’s laptop, the fix was to reinstall the Win 7 Driver.

However, with nearly every Windows 10 update or patch I’ve had to reinstall the Win 7 Webcam Driver again. The driver folder now sits on the desktop.

I know some of you think this is acceptable, but I don’t! :mad:

Hey, even Linux has had driver issues .
No OS is perfect.

Ive had Winupdates break drivers as well , more than once on the same device . Believe it or not, it hardly ever happens though.
I'd get alot more work if it was a common occurrence :)

B.M.
07-05-2018, 12:43 PM
Hey, even Linux has had driver issues .

Tell me, which Linux Driver remains unfixed since August 2016? :confused:

wainuitech
07-05-2018, 01:07 PM
Tell me, which Linux Driver remains unfixed since August 2016? :confused: Did you read fully including all the links to the Linux /Scanner Post ??

Latest Driver 14-Feb-2013 Didn't work.


The 2nd oldest driver worked on laptop, not desktop,

So why did the Newest Driver work on One PC and Not the other ?

Have a look at Surferjoes posts -- Seems there's a LOT of trouble with Wireless Drivers.


WSKY/Realtek - RTL8812AU driver inconsistency is well documented on many - if not all - websites

For someone who hates Windows and claims to refuse to use it you sure have a lot of problems with it :lol:

EVERY OS has driver issues, get over it, you know the fix so be happy with that.

(Now waiting for a Car reference of some sort) :p

1101
07-05-2018, 05:38 PM
Tell me, which Linux Driver remains unfixed since August 2016? :confused:

I guess when there is NO linux driver for certain hardware I cant claim its broken :banana

Driver issues cant all be blamed on MS.
Often the hardware manufacturer just cant be arsed writing,fixing,updating drivers . Thats not MS's fault.
cough cough certain HP printers that wouldnt work on 10, ie prints 1 page then nothing . Seen a couple of those, blame HP for abandoning their printers & putting out
crappy bloated 300M driver installs that fails anyway after taking 15minutes to install


https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.htm l#Desktop_Linux_Problems_and_Major_Shortcomings

B.M.
07-05-2018, 06:26 PM
I guess when there is NO linux driver for certain hardware I cant claim its broken :banana


https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.htm l#Desktop_Linux_Problems_and_Major_Shortcomings

Both Linux and Microsoft have the same responsibility to provide drivers, or endeavour to provide drivers, for various equipment.

Linux has met their obligation, Microsoft haven’t.

Simple as that!

And from your very own link. :banana

8818

wainuitech
07-05-2018, 06:42 PM
Its obvious B.M didn't read the complete article, if he did he would have stopped. :D


If you believe Linux is perfect and it has no problems, please close this page. :lol:

Are you really serious B.M


Both Linux and Microsoft have the same responsibility to provide drivers, or endeavour to provide drivers, for various equipment.


What a joke, Why should ANY OS Manufacture make drivers for EVERY piece of hardware in the world. NO ONE does. Its upto the manufactures of the equipment to make drivers for Various OS's ( which ever it is).
Using your car examples as you seem so fond of doing - Why don't Car manufactures make tyres or petrol for every car they manufacture ? You know very well they don't.

You say Linux provide drivers --- REALLY - how's that Web cam going you tried for ages to get going -- OH Right - NO LINUX drivers-- Why NOT??

Digby
07-05-2018, 06:57 PM
Why are there so many Linux devotees on here when it has such a very small market of the DESKTOP and LAPTOP world.
Why do so many PC World members stick with Windows 7, which is going nowhere.
Get with the program and start being at the leading edge?

wainuitech
07-05-2018, 07:18 PM
Some words of Wisdom from Linus Torvalds back in 2009 ( Some will have to look up who this is).


There are 'extremists' in the free software world, but that's one major reason why I don?t call what I do 'free software' any more. I don't want to be associated with the people for whom it's about exclusion and hatred."

Torvald also defends Microsoft against those who argue that Microsoft's code release was only done for selfish reasons. In fact, he says, all open source code is written for selfish reasons, so Microsoft's motives are no different than anyone's in the open source community.

"I agree that it's driven by selfish reasons, but that’s how all open source code gets written! We all 'scratch our own itches'. It's why I started Linux, it's why I started git, and it’s why I am still involved. It's the reason for everybody to end up in open source, to some degree.

So complaining about the fact that Microsoft picked a selfish area to work on is just silly. Of course they picked an area that helps them. That’s the point of open source -- the ability to make the code better for your particular needs, whoever the 'your' in question happens to be.

Does anybody complain when hardware companies write drivers for the hardware they produce? No. That would be crazy. Does anybody complain when IBM funds all the POWER development, and works on enterprise features because they sell into the enterprise? No. That would be insane.
So the people who complain about Microsoft writing drivers for their own virtualization model should take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves why they are being so hypocritical."

1101
08-05-2018, 10:29 AM
Both Linux and Microsoft have the same responsibility to provide drivers, or endeavour to provide drivers, for various equipment.

Linux has met their obligation, Microsoft haven’t.


BS.
Plenty of hardware doesnt have Lin drivers .
IF Linux had a responsibility to provide drivers , who is going to pay for the salaries of the team that has write all those drivers, and buy the hardware to test each driver .
I dont really think anyone expects Lin to have the range of drivers that MS does :)

And if the MANUFACTURERS of hardware care so little about the stuff they sell, why should MS be expected to write the drivers for them, and keep those drivers updated

Issues with drivers, blame the manufacturers who made the damn thing . Its like making a electric car with no way to charge the thing up .
Issues with drivers, by a brand that do make the effort to have WORKING bug free drivers & keep them updated

linw
08-05-2018, 10:45 AM
Why the hell are we arguing with troll, BM, about Linux on a windows thread? Just sod off, BM.

pcuser42
08-05-2018, 11:19 AM
Is BM winmacguy, but Linux?