PDA

View Full Version : Ethernet Cables



Brucem
27-11-2017, 07:46 AM
We have in the last few days had fibre installed, download speeds have gone from about 4.8 Gbs on ASDL2 to about 101 Gbs. My problem is that the computer, and the modem are in a bedroom/office, and in the adjoining hallway. At the moment they are connected by a Ethernet cable 5 metres long on the floor. I want to connect them via two flush boxes in the walls, and have all the jacks, flushboxes etc. required, but cannot' make it work. The cable that I am using is a cat 5e, and I have been wiring it into the jacks as a cat 6 cable. I have tried connecting both ends as cat 6, and with one end cat 6 and the other cat 6 reversed. I haven't tried cat 5e connections because I cant find a description. Can anyone help?

wainuitech
27-11-2017, 08:14 AM
For starters, you have the speeds wrong, no way is ADSL2 going to give you 4.8Gbs, and certainly not 101, Mbs maybe.

The cabling-- if its not working then you have it wired incorrectly OR there's a break in the cable. Wall jacks will have a colour code sequence on them. The wiring must be correct, all it can take is to have 2 wires wrong ( cant have only one) and it can stop/cause problems. Make sure the wires are pushed in fully as well, and set to straight through.

The Ethernet cables in your case should also be straight through as well. Look up the wiring code and make sure you use a straight through option.

568B Standard

8446


Seen countless times that people simply put the wires how they like and while if they are straight through setup, makes is difficult to fault find if not in the standard order. Normally when I hit that I cut off the plugs and rewire the standard way. :)

If you are going to be making cables, then it also pays to invest in a cable tester, they are not expensive and will test to make sure the wiring is correct.

pctek
27-11-2017, 08:23 AM
I have tried connecting both ends as cat 6, and with one end cat 6 and the other cat 6 reversed. I haven't tried cat 5e connections because I cant find a description. Can anyone help?

Whether it is cat 6 or 5, makes no difference to how the wires should be.
I have my old cat 5 cables still in use, these ran under the house then back up through the floor to modem and pcs, all I did was plug them into the new modem instead.

(Wiring them, meh)

But as Wainuitech says, get your colour code right....

dugimodo
27-11-2017, 09:16 AM
Wire it like Wainuis' diagram, the pattern is more important than the actual colours though. What I mean is, each set of pins for a pair of wires must be connected to a pair, not split between two pairs.

So
1&2 - pair 2 (orange)
4&5 - pair 1 (blue)
3&6 - pair 3 (green)
7&8 - pair 4 (brown)

The pair numbers aren't important, that's just my days as a tech coming back, the colour code Blue, Orange, Green, Brown, Slate(grey) is burnt into my memory so to me blue is always the first pair.

If you mixed up any of the pairs it doesn't really matter - as long as it's the same at both ends. But if you split a pair by say putting it on pins 3&4 (which would seem logical but is wrong) it will not work.
For GigE the data is broken into multiple slower signals and each pair of wires is used in both directions to send a signal.

100M ethernet is much simpler and uses the blue and orange as send and receive and is more likely to work on a partially correct connection, however Gige adapters detect each other and will not automatically step down to 100M.
A bit of useless trivia perhaps, but I've used an old 100M switch on the end of a cable that only had 2 pairs to force the connection down to 100M and make it work when it wouldn't with the PC and router connected directly because they were both GigE.

KarameaDave
27-11-2017, 09:56 AM
We have in the last few days had fibre installed, download speeds have gone from about 4.8 Gbs on ASDL2 to about 101 Gbs. My problem is that the computer, and the modem are in a bedroom/office, and in the adjoining hallway. At the moment they are connected by a Ethernet cable 5 metres long on the floor. I want to connect them via two flush boxes in the walls, and have all the jacks, flushboxes etc. required, but cannot' make it work. The cable that I am using is a cat 5e, and I have been wiring it into the jacks as a cat 6 cable. I have tried connecting both ends as cat 6, and with one end cat 6 and the other cat 6 reversed. I haven't tried cat 5e connections because I cant find a description. Can anyone help?

That is your issue, as Wainuitech said it needs to be straight through (same both ends)

mzee
27-11-2017, 10:03 AM
How about using the house wiring with power-line adaptors?

Speedy Gonzales
27-11-2017, 10:30 AM
If you've got a smartphone put Electrodroid on it. It'll show you nearly every pinout (it has diagrams as well) for whatever cable It's only a few $ to buy it

Brucem
27-11-2017, 02:44 PM
I have removed the jacks from the ends of the Ethernet cable (approx 7 m long) and tested each wire for continuity. I dismantled each jack, and tested that I had continuity between the pins and the wire holders. I tested each wire in each of 3 patch cables for continuity. I could find no problems. I reassembled it all wiring both jacks identically: pin 1: Orange/White, pin 2: Orange, pin3: Green/White, pin 6: Green, pin 4: Blue, pin 5: Blue/White, pin 8: Brown, pin7: Brown/White. These pins are in order of down one side and up the other. It still doesn't work! Where do I go from here?

wainuitech
27-11-2017, 03:22 PM
How are you pushing in the wires ? They need to be fully seated, some Keystone /Krone connectors can be a bit touchy. Also Krone connectors you can wire in a different layout both 568A & 568B. The picture Below I wired in 568B, notice the A & B on the connector.

Should look like this when seated:
8452

To do that the best way is with either a correct punch-down tool which has a inbuilt trimmer, or at least an el cheapo, as pictured, the cheapo is the on on the right:

8453

To test if the wires are connected correctly use best to use a tester, this is mine, when plugged in if all the wiring is correct the lights flash from top to bottom in sequence, if any are dead or incorrect then it goes out of sequence:

8454

Theres instructions / Video on this page HERE (http://www.thatcable.com/product/IDC-Punch-Down-Tool-CAT5-RJ11-Network-Keystone-Krone)

If everything is as the pictures /video then you may have a faulty jack/connector.

Brucem
27-11-2017, 05:24 PM
I am using a thing called "Economy UPT Stripper" purchased from Jaycar. It looks as if I have to buy a tester.

dugimodo
27-11-2017, 05:44 PM
No need to strip anything, in fact you really shouldn't. These are called IPC or insulation displacement connectors. The connector has a sharp edge that cuts through the insulation and into the wire slightly. If done correctly even air is excluded from the joint.
You can use a small flat bladed screwdriver but that is very Bodgy and may damage the connector or just make a bad connection.

Slightly less bodgy :p is using a krone tool as pictured by Wainuitech but I don't think that's actually the correct tool either, the ethernet connector in the picture and the ones I've seen are not krone connectors. I've seen these tools advertised and sold for that purpose and I know they work, but Ideally you should use a connector and tool designed for each other. Unfortunately the real ones cost a fortune, mine looked like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/110-66-block-punch-down-impact-tool-cat-5e-cat-6-/320659992436 but again that's for a specific connector type and they are not all the same.

And apologies to Wainui if I have it wrong, maybe some of the RJ45 sockets are meant to use that tool - there are a lot of manufacturers and I've been out of the the install game for 10 years now.

This may help and it's how I do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkbz-uywLJs

dugimodo
27-11-2017, 06:10 PM
Was meant to be IDC above not IPC.

Also did some research, found out there are now hybrid connections that use either tool and how to tell the difference.
Informative video here, info on blocks and how to tell which is which starts at 15 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFVlhLxy52k

wainuitech
27-11-2017, 06:28 PM
And apologies to Wainui if I have it wrong, maybe some of the RJ45 sockets are meant to use that tool - there are a lot of manufacturers and I've been out of the the install game for 10 years now. Have a look at the link of the video I posted, http://www.thatcable.com/product/IDC-Punch-Down-Tool-CAT5-RJ11-Network-Keystone-Krone

Its the exact same tool, been using it for years, hence the wire cutting function is a little blunt and doesn't work as well as it used to. They are designed for connecting the wires into the jacks.

RJ45 are completely different tools, they are these http://www.thatcable.com/product/RJ45-Crimp-Tool-CAT5-CAT6-Ethernet-Network-Cable-8P8C

Mine aren't quite that flash, The ones shown have move safety shields but do the same job. Trust me the cutting blade damn well hurts when you slice your finger :crying Been there -done that (more than once).

dugimodo
28-11-2017, 07:08 AM
The socket is also RJ45 and is what I was talking about, not the plug. I also have one of those tools.
The plug you showed a photo of is probably a hybrid and I didn't know those existed, but it is not a krone connector which is what that tool was originally designed for.

The Video link I most recently posted explains it all and how to tell the difference but here's what I was getting at.

You showed a picture of a krone tool, we used to use those in the telco industry (still do) for phone jacks and cable termination blocks in exchanges and cabinets. When ethernet first started to take off here all the sockets and patch panels we sourced to install used the american 110 tool - a krone tool will not even go in. That was my experience and why I thought you had the wrong tool. Watching the Video above that I linked it turns out there are krone versions used mainly in the UK and 110 versions used mainly in the US and the tools do not work on each other. But since I stopped working on them they have now developed hybrid connectors that work with both tools and that's likely what is now being used here. It still does not look like a krone connection but if the tool works at all it has to be either krone or the hybrid.

I used a krone tool for more than 20 years and never once cut my finger, that's a talent you have right there :)

wainuitech
28-11-2017, 08:18 AM
I used a krone tool for more than 20 years and never once cut my finger, that's a talent you have right there :) Did you even bother to look at the links ??

The tool, A krone tool, also known as a punch down tool Google pictures and you'll see. ITS THE SAME THING.

Go to this site http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-Use-a-Krone-Tool-/10000000206363248/g.html Watch how its used.

Dont know what you are talking about but the plugs are RJ45 and using a krone tool, again different, some call the connectors RJ45 sockets but that's not their common name. They are normally called Krone Connector or Keystone jacks, Again same thing called different names -- Google it you'll see I'm right.

And the tools -- I said I cut fingers on the Crimping tool, Which you would have seen in the links provided,not a punchdown tool.

It was easy, the safety latch came undone or I hadn't clipped it correctly, reach into the box where it was and the exposed blade cut finger as it was in the open position.

Just to prove it here is the tool with the safety off.

8461

It is very easy to cut fingers if its open. More newer tools have better safety protection covers.

dugimodo
28-11-2017, 02:23 PM
This is getting a little serious feeling. I was just poking a little fun originally :p

I looked at your links, did you look at mine? As they explain there are 3 types of connectors and I only had experience with the US version which is what the one you posted most closely resembles. I'm going to assume it's a hybrid as it is clearly not a krone connector but the tool would not work at all with an 110 socket - go ahead and watch the video I linked if you don't believe me. I just mistook that you were talking about the krone tool and cutting your finger, I get where you are coming from now. I never cut myself on one of those either :p I never used that cutting blade though, I just used my side cutters. Done so many my fingers seem to know how to do it with out any conscious thought on my part. You need a decent pair of side cutters with shearing blades though, not those horrible things i see in cheap tool kits.

RJ45 is a standard that describes both the plug and the socket. I would also call the tool for the crimping the plug an RJ45 tool like you did, but earlier I was referring to the socket being an RJ45 not the tool that you use to connect the wires to it.
Using different terminology is a common issue between those with a telco background like myself and those from an IT background that I've been running into for years. I've used all the tools you linked extensively but I just have used them in a different environment with different names for things.

In the companies I worked for krone tools were used for 10 way krone blocks and phone jacks, The US 110 tool I mentioned was used for patch panels and RJ45 sockets on wall plates. There was never any cross over between the two. I have never came across anyone calling an RJ45 socket a krone connector before but if you say that's common in the IT industry I will take your word for it. I asked a couple people here out of curiosity and was met with confusion, there's nothing we would call a krone connector as such.

When I think about it now it's easy to see that telcos just pick a standard and stick with it, so I only ever saw the connectors & tools they decided on. I never even knew a krone version of an RJ45 socket existed until today, and I've done thousands of them (I used to install 2mbps circuits into businesses for many years).

Here's an example of different usage - the guy in the Video didn't know what the flat bladed attachment on a krone tool was for. Whatever people use it for now it's original use pre dates ethernet, 10 way krone blocks clip onto stainless steel back mounts and the flat blat is for releasing them so you can get them back off the mount. Krone changed to a rail mount system many years ago but some telcos have persisted with the old style mounting system so they are still available and the tools still have the attachment. You'd be hard pressed to find them in use very much outside of the telco industry where the blocks are used to terminate copper cables in cabinets and exchanges.

wainuitech
28-11-2017, 03:11 PM
We are basically talking about the same things. Different people call certain items by different names, just depends on how a person is taught.

I "did" have a good quality crimping tool once, but left it on a job by mistake, and at the time couldn't remember which job. :(

Anyway Back on topic, Bruces problem could be either a faulty Jack (or what ever name whom ever wishes to call it) OR some other problem like the wires not seating correctly. Only Bruce can answer that by suppliyng what has been tried and the results.

Brucem
28-11-2017, 04:43 PM
Thanks for everyone's help, I cut a short Ethernet cable in half, plugged this into the ends of the main cable , stripped the wires and tested for continuity. some wires were OK, some were not, and some were only OK when pressure from the crude punch down tool was maintained. I went out and bought a 'Pro'sKit' 8PK-31141A ($29). Everything works now, all I have to do now is get into the ceiling and place it. Once again thanks.

pctek
28-11-2017, 06:33 PM
The tool, A krone tool, also known as a punch down tool Google pictures and you'll see. ITS THE SAME THING.
.

I still have mine.
When I worked for Akld Uni, doing back end networks, I had to pass the Krone course, we used Krone fittings and it was part of the warranty....a qualified installer.
we got given a Krone tool like this.

Wainiuitech is quite correct, just the punch down tool. Husband has one too, but his is a phone one, for jackpoints, which he go way back when he was at NZPO.