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bk T
08-10-2017, 12:24 PM
When restarting this Win10 Pro PC, it stuck at : "Getting Windows ready Don't turn off you computer "

It's there for more than half an hour now and still spinning .....

Will give it another 30 min.


One got to be very patient with Win10 updates .... and, make sure you have no important/ urgent work to be done!

Speedy Gonzales
08-10-2017, 12:32 PM
There was an updates a few weeks ago that looked like it got stuck. In the end I rebooted and downloaded the update manually, from the windows catalog site

bk T
08-10-2017, 02:12 PM
It restarted successfully after ~40 mins. Seems to be running OK now.

Sigh ..... Win10 updates .... sigh .....

Speedy Gonzales
08-10-2017, 02:13 PM
Hopefully, the next update which is out next / or this week. The Fall update I think is faster

mzee
08-10-2017, 03:45 PM
It restarted successfully after ~40 mins. Seems to be running OK now.

Sigh ..... Win10 updates .... sigh .....

Turn them off! I prefer to use Linux when possible, when I open it I can get to work immediately, no updates, or AV to worry about. When I go to use Windows it spends more time preening its feathers and updating than working for me. Unfortunately I need to use some of the Windows software for my work, so I keep auto updates off except for AV.

gary67
08-10-2017, 04:01 PM
Funny how a few people have an issue with windows updates, 95% of the time everything happens in the background and I only know about it when I go to shutdown. I do use Linux from time to time and in Mint have to always trigger updates manually which is a much bigger pain than windows updates.

pcuser42
08-10-2017, 06:01 PM
Turn them off!

Personally I would never recommend that...

1101
09-10-2017, 09:36 AM
For a few, turning off Winupdates is a good option . Even if only temporarily
Sometimes you just cant afford to be out of action first thing in the morning , waiting an hour for updates to sort themselves out

bk T
09-10-2017, 11:47 AM
...
Sometimes you just cant afford to be out of action first thing in the morning , waiting an hour for updates to sort themselves out


:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

CliveM
09-10-2017, 03:44 PM
With Win 10 Pro it will update at whatever time you select for it to happen. Mine happens at 5:30pm when I almost never wish to use my desktop. I do not see what the problem is. Perhaps that option is not available in the home edition?

dugimodo
09-10-2017, 03:57 PM
Mine's just on whatever the default setting is and the only time I usually notice updates is when I shut down, and then occasionally when I start up the next day. But it's never been more than a few minutes in the morning that I recall. Overall it's largely unobtrusive.
Certainly it's not constantly updating for long periods of time the way some people seem to have experienced. The way you hear it described seems like a wild exaggeration compared to my experience with 4 pcs running windows 10. I guess some people are just unlucky.

wainuitech
09-10-2017, 04:53 PM
Mine's just on whatever the default setting is and the only time I usually notice updates is when I shut down, and then occasionally when I start up the next day. But it's never been more than a few minutes in the morning that I recall. Overall it's largely unobtrusive.
Certainly it's not constantly updating for long periods of time the way some people seem to have experienced. The way you hear it described seems like a wild exaggeration compared to my experience with 4 pcs running windows 10. I guess some people are just unlucky. That's how ALL the Computers here act as well. Only once Have I seen a message pop up saying it needs to restart, and even then you have the option "Restart Later".

Some users are their own worst enemies -- Some never shutdown or restart OR do any maintenance at all,so when ever updates need to go in and a restart required it takes a LOT longer.

There's a REALLY SIMPLE way to stop windows restarting ( it's known as get to know your PC /Settings) :p Alter the Active hours --Real rocket science ;)

8334

1101
10-10-2017, 10:18 AM
Its not Win restarting thats the issue, yes that can be delayed (now , after MS finally gave us that option)

Its the time it takes to restart after a major update.
If its a major update ( a new build ver) , then it can take 1/2 hour plus . For those in a hurry, needing to get an urgent email out the rush off to work, thats a major issue .

And yes, these major updates can take HOURS to install. Ive seen it .

2 brand new laptops , different brands. Setting both up at the same time. Ran winupdate on both.
1 took bgger all time to restart & install updates , the other took 4 hours , yep 4 hours sitting there struggling with a major update.

Lets not pretend that Winupate doesnt sometimes cause all sorts of issues on 10 .
Lets not forget the particular model allin1 that a 10 update left them in an usable state (but fixable) , or the particular printers (cough cough HP) that
was left unusable after a version update .

dugimodo
10-10-2017, 01:40 PM
Yes I accept there are real issues with windows update at times. I just wanted to share a counter point of how well it works for many of us because these threads often give the impression that it happens constantly to almost everyone which just isn't true.
I've been using windows 10 since release on multiple machines and in all that time have not experienced more than a very minor occasional delay waiting for updates to finish. The only time I've seen it take very long is when I'm shutting it down - and I just walk away and leave it so that doesn't bother me.

chiefnz
10-10-2017, 03:34 PM
It should also be noted that the longer you wait between updates and upgrades the more time it will take to install those updates and upgrades when you do eventually decide to install.

The fact that it takes long has more to do with the system making sure (or at least trying to make sure) there is minimal disruption... I concede that this sometimes doesn't happen for all users out there but believe it or not MS have been trying to make this a reality and have come a long way over the years. Windows Update will check for prerequisites and superseded updates etc. before applying new ones this will inevitably prolong the time and in some cases updates have to be removed before the superseding ones can be installed. MS has progressively built this into its update process so that if you do need to restart you only need to restart once (or as few times as possible) the caveat being that post reboot may be a bit of a wait.

Personally, I think this is way better than say under Windows 7/8 where it would be quite common place for the machine to reboot multiple times to install a single set of downloaded updates.

I recently, did some work for a client.... Windows 10 migration, I built an MDT and a WSUS server for them. I built a standard OS image but had trouble adding the 1511/1607 and 1703 upgrades to the image initially. Eventually I managed to progress through images from 1503--->1703. Updating systems via WSUS from the original 1503 build to the 1703 build took significantly longer than those from say 1607 to 1703. So the fewer hops you have between update/upgrade installs the less likely you will experience lengthy post update reboots.

I have always left all my Windows 10 machines (laptops and desktops) on their default Windows update settings and I can honestly say that I've never had any issues with long reboots and I believe this is because I have left Windows Update to do its thing. In fact 2 months ago I updated a laptop which hadn't been in use for about 8 months so it was still on 1511, updating to 1703 to like 4 hours and there were multiple reboots with lengthy wait periods in between. My other machine which I use daily upgraded from 1607 to 1703 in about 20 minutes and there was no delay after reboot.

I know not everyone will agree but this is just my own experience. Windows updates can be a pain for sure, but if you use it as intended and set it up to meet your needs in terms of timing it is likely not going to be the villainous abomination so many people say it is.

wainuitech
10-10-2017, 03:55 PM
Fully agree with what both Dugimodo & Chiefnz posted :thumbs:

While some people seem to have problems all the time, on most occasions if its actually looked into you find the real cause, and its not the actual updates doing their thing ;)

How many times do techs go back to someone's place, and when investigating a problem you find simple things you have advised to do to maintain a smooth running machine have they not done, OR more to case the last time something was done was the last time you were there ( say a year previous).

W10 overall is far more stable than any of the other OS's.-- As proof -- Take this forum, look back over the years and now look since W10 came out - there are a lot fewer posts relating to W10 problems than previous OS's. Even the general workload has gone down :( , far less ACTUAL W10 problems than XP, Vista, W7 W8 etc.

There's more failures due to hardware or infections than the actual OS. Just did a quick look, going back over the last 35 jobs NONE have been related to W10 directly, any problems were caused by something else. (mostly upgrades to W10 or hardware related).

1101
10-10-2017, 04:23 PM
Most of the 10's Ive had to fix have been due to a bggered version update or fast start : fast not start :-)
The major ver updates cause the most issues, that Ive seen , but usually if I do that via latest DVD it goes without a hitch .

More reliable, or just better hardware, drivers, & less user fiddling . :)
A well built Win7 , with SSD & lots of RAM is pretty solid, if kept uncluttered with crap .

Given how many 10's are out there & how few need repair, yeah its reliable . But so is the XP that Im still using :)

linw
11-10-2017, 09:01 PM
My experience is also very positive. I have 4 active here and they all update as they are supposed to. I am also surprised that the 18 or so I have upgraded for people never have needed my later attention for update problems. Or any other OS problems for that matter.

I don't have any problems with my Insider comp either. It is my main driver (but I do have good macrium images on hand!).

But there are a few on the Insider forum I am on that regularly seem to have update problems. Some machines/people just seem to attract the negatives.

As irony would have it, I have just had a popup on this notebook screen telling me I am ready for an update restart!!

So, over and out.

linw
11-10-2017, 09:12 PM
Yawn... 8 min from restart to desktop.

wainuitech
11-10-2017, 09:16 PM
There is one thing about the updates I have noticed (well had it happen many times on customers computers) A Lot still had not upgraded from 1607 to 1703, they have only just started to come through, half a dozen this week so far.

Most that have not upgraded have been on wireless connections. The few that were on a ethernet connection, there is also a pattern ------people start their computers, basically look at the email, maybe have a quick look at some news site then shut down------Problem not being on long enough to actually complete downloads, most average users don't have a clue how to manually check for updates.

Bryan
11-10-2017, 09:37 PM
I turn my desktop off nightly. In the morning, after the PC has booted I always (silly me) check for updates. Most mornings there are none but just sometimes there are and not always on a Wednesday either.

linw
12-10-2017, 09:47 AM
I'd agree (again!!) with WT. While MS is trying to get updates done without intervention by the user, a bit of management and understanding can help. Checking for updates, occasionally, when you don't want to use it would help.

Personally speaking, considering the complexity of these machines, the bigger miracle is that so many run so well with very limited skilled intervention!

Most users know practically nothing about what is going on and are not prepared to invest any time in finding out. Some seem to think divine intervention is how we acquired our knowledge.

Ask them whether they use the browser for email. Pause to explain what a browser is. And they won't be able to tell you which one they use.

And knowledge of file/folder structure? Forget it. Backups? Again, forget it. Had a friend here yesterday. He told me he had a USB drive attached and his computer was continually updating it. What program was doing this? No idea. What files were being backed up? No idea. Is it, in fact, still working properly? No idea. But good on him for trying but you can't just set and forget.

Etc etc.

So, let us stop blaming MS for all our ills and pause to marvel at how much does get done well, in spite of the lack of management expertise.

1101
12-10-2017, 10:57 AM
So, let us stop blaming MS for all our ills and pause to marvel at how much does get done well, in spite of the lack of management expertise.

I'd disagree . In the real world, the average user IS NOT tech savvy.
MS didnt design things with them in mind, so MS ignored the needs of the av, non techy user

one good example is Win7,10 backups . Win10 : its too damn hard to find (ie search "backup"). Then , rather than have a single, well designed backup system & sticking with
it (ala Apple) , MS make it a confusing mess for the av user. Why have 2 completely diffenernt backup system in Win. Why have one of them that didnt even backup everything
Why have a stitzo OS . To get to settings we have both control panel & Win settings .Then Win Tried to hide control Panel. We have normal desktop & Tiles. We have normal programs & apps

So yes, blame MS . :-)
this is why those who leave MS for Apple never come back.

wainuitech
12-10-2017, 11:31 AM
I'd disagree . In the real world, the average user IS NOT tech savvy.
MS didnt design things with them in mind, so MS ignored the needs of the av, non techy user

one good example is Win7,10 backups . Win10 : its too damn hard to find (ie search "backup"). Then , rather than have a single, well designed backup system & sticking with
it (ala Apple) , MS make it a confusing mess for the av user. Why have 2 completely diffenernt backup system in Win. Why have one of them that didnt even backup everything
Why have a stitzo OS . To get to settings we have both control panel & Win settings .Then Win Tried to hide control Panel. We have normal desktop & Tiles. We have normal programs & apps

So yes, blame MS . :-)
this is why those who leave MS for Apple never come back. There one HUGE flaw with all that -- The AVERAGE USER.

These are the same people who never did backups even in Windows 7, Never did any sort of maintence of ANY sort, Clicked on suspect popups /links even after being told countless times not to.
Move a desktop Icon from one place on the desktop to another and OMG its all wrong, cant do that. Ask them what browser they are using and they cant tell you, and (heres the beaut) claim they have 1TB of memory - in other words dont know the differeance between a hard Drive /Memory.

So it doesn't really matter how simplified MS try to make it some people simply cant do the tasks mentioned.

There are some who I've dealt with, show them how to do backups ( basically 3 clicks) , and they still wont. Some want to save to cloud storage - yet tell them to put a file into either google drive or one drive folder and its to hard :waughh:

There have been a few people I've put on auto uploading programs to do backups of some degree, most dont even know they have them. Their main working data gets backed up automatically. There are a few, you can set up auto backups, BUT all they had to do was plug in a USB drive before a certain time -----Even that was to hard.:waughh:

EVEN with Apple, which has Time Machine. MANY still dont use it - to much trouble to plug in an external Drive.

chiefnz
12-10-2017, 12:46 PM
I'd disagree . In the real world, the average user IS NOT tech savvy.

Allow me to disagree right back...

The rationale behind MS re-designing the Windows Update mechanism and platform is for the very reason you mention above. MS are very much aware that the average user is NOT tech savvy.

To further strengthen my argument look no further than other product offerings and services such as OneDrive and the ubiquitous MS Account.

MS brought these in because they know the average user isn't tech savvy, so why not provide a service or mechanism which allows them to save things on their computer but have them "backed" up automatically to OneDrive or the user's MS account in the cloud. Now if the average user is not as tech savvy as you say, and they left everything at defaults in Windows10 and signed in with a MS account, then they wouldn't lose their photos, docs music etc. or require a backup process because it would be available via their MS Account so even if they lost the OS and didn't save data outside their profile as long as they logged in with the same MS account they'd be fine. MS has actually designed Win10 around this whole principal, your data, anytime you want on any device you use as long as it has the same MS account signed in!

The only people who would bypass the use of an MS account on the computer would be users such as ourselves who are more tech savvy and/or work in IT. Personally, if I come across a not so tech savvy person I encourage them to use a MS account as well as syncing the data to OneDrive or their MS account because it saves them a lot of angst and grief not mention reduces the need for me to make house calls when something breaks. I don't use this myself but that's because I run backups, AV/Malware scans, update Windows regularly and don't click on things I shouldn't be or don't trust. Any user can follow those simple steps...all of which can be googled and/or setup automatically for you by Windows with a few clicks... but you have to take some time and read stuff on the screen in front of you.

The other thing is that most people in general are just plain ignorant and lazy. Tech savvyness aside, if you don't bother reading the instructions and make one or two changes to your system to ensure your own techno sanity then why are you surprised when things go belly up. It amazes me that even in this day and age some people (and I mean a lot) think that computers/technology just do stuff on their own, this may be the case with AI down the track but we are not there yet.

B.M.
12-10-2017, 03:34 PM
Let’s put things into perspective.

Windows 10 is now 3 years old and still causing problems!

I wonder what the Win10 Spin Doctors would say if they got in their car in the morning and got a message “Do Not put car in Drive as OS is updating” or, if you managed to get it going, you got home and got another message “Do Not switch off car as OS is configuring”.

Then the next day you had to call a mechanic because the damn car wouldn’t do anything useful.

May Microsoft never design Cars or Aeroplanes. :)

wainuitech
12-10-2017, 03:52 PM
Let’s put things into perspective.

Windows 10 is now 3 years old and still causing problems!

Lets put the whole OS range in perspective, and when they came out ;) ( this is general releases, not including servers)

BTW W10 is only 2 years old, NOT 3

XP -- October 25, 2001
Vista - January 30, 2007
Windows 7 - October 22, 2009
Windows 8 - October 26, 2012
Windows 10 - July 29, 2015

The WHOLE LOT still give problems. The older the OS the more problems they have.

When you deal with hundreds of computers like us real techs do a pattern develops very quickly as to what's causing problems.

As I mentioned a while back ACTUAL OS repairs of W10 have all but dried up, its all hardware or infection related. If a HDD fails that's hardly the OS's fault.


What ChiefNZ posted is spot on, esp the last sentence :thumbs:. Sometimes its a user that's caused a problem in the first place.

B.M.
12-10-2017, 05:12 PM
BTW W10 is only 2 years old, NOT 3

8338

:confused:

wainuitech
12-10-2017, 05:32 PM
8338

:confused: That's not wrong, BUT please see what I put in Brackets :) "this is general releases"

This means when it was released to the public.

It was announced earlier, but not generally available. The insider ( pre-release) versions were out to testers, but not generally released.

Example of that - See the start date of the thread in Chat http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?138792-Windows-10-Latest-Tech-Preview Things have changed quite a bit since then :)

Shortly, the next upgrade will be out ( reported 17th October) it will be version 1709 = 2017/ Month 9 ( current is 1703) code named RedStone 3. The 9th month was when it was completed, between then and now they are tidying up bits and pieces. Already got it on a couple of Computers. :)

The next version Red Stone 4 is also due out shortly, maybe even this week. What the general public get, people who want to play with insider builds have had for some time now, weeks sometimes months ahead. That's why sometimes when working on customers computers I say Under my breath "awhh crap" This is still behind, the option I want is not yet available to general.

As reported https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-redstone-4-builds-might-be-coming-to-the-fast-ring-tomorrow.

Speedy Gonzales
12-10-2017, 05:56 PM
Looks like the update that came out yesterday for Windows 10 1703, really screwed things up for some people. It caused a BSOD

Thankfully, I did a clean install of 1709 on Tuesday

B.M.
12-10-2017, 05:59 PM
That's not wrong, BUT please see what I put in Brackets :) "this is general releases"

This means when it was released to the public.

It was announced earlier, but not generally available. The insider ( pre-release) versions were out to testers, but not generally released.

Example of that - See the start date of the thread in Chat http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?138792-Windows-10-Latest-Tech-Preview Things have changed quite a bit since then :)

Shortly, the next upgrade will be out ( reported 17th October) it will be version 1709 = 2017/ Month 9 ( current is 1703) code named RedStone 3. The 9th month was when it was completed, between then and now they are tidying up bits and pieces. Already got it on a couple of Computers. :)

The next version Red Stone 4 is also due out shortly, maybe even this week. What the general public get, people who want to play with insider builds have had for some time now, weeks sometimes months ahead. That's why sometimes when working on customers computers I say Under my breath "awhh crap" This is still behind, the option I want is not yet available to general.

As reported https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-redstone-4-builds-might-be-coming-to-the-fast-ring-tomorrow.

Oh I see.

We have the date of conception, followed by the gestation period, followed by the first born, followed by a family of others, all courtesy of various fathers.

Got it now, why didn’t you tell me that in the first place? :)

KarameaDave
12-10-2017, 06:07 PM
Same sort of thing for Linux you know B.M.
Alpha releases
Beta releases
Final release to general users.

wainuitech
12-10-2017, 06:09 PM
Oh I see.

We have the date of conception, followed by the gestation period, followed by the first born, followed by a family of others, all courtesy of various fathers.

Got it now, why didn’t you tell me that in the first place? :) Didn't think of it like that.

The way you wrote that out, its actually quite clever and accurate :D :thumbs:

Guess that could go for many things -- like the people "running" the country, winnie playing guess who -- Lets not go there . ;)