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undiejuice
15-10-2015, 10:26 AM
Hi,

I am currently on ADSL broad band (Unlimited plan with Spark) and soon next week I will be upgrading to the Fibre100+ Landline plan. Am I going to see any significant difference with fibre broadband, or is this just hype?

I am really excited about this, as I watch and download lots of videos, watch Netflix, into gaming and download the odd programs say (3 gig) in size that would usually take hours to download. BTW, I live in the city. Am I expecting a few seconds when it comes to downloading large files?

Cheers.

1101
15-10-2015, 10:37 AM
You need to be realistic.
Upload speeds will be faster , Winupdates might be faster ?

Download speeds are ALLWAYS limited by the speed every step between you and the other end. Just because you have 100Mb/s , doesnt mean the other
end will feed downloads to you at that speed.

Im on ADSL, I have NEVER maxed that out on downloads, never even been close . Fibre wouldnt change that.

wainuitech
15-10-2015, 11:11 AM
To Quote 1101 :)


Download speeds are ALLWAYS limited by the speed every step between you and the other end. Just because you have 100Mb/s , doesnt mean the other
end will feed downloads to you at that speed. Got that right ;) :D

Heres an example: I'm on Vodafone Cable, a speed test, depending on the time of day usually tops out at what I'm meant to get around 130Mbps.

Saturday late afternoon I downloaded a ISO 4.1GB, it came through at roughly 1.5 MB/s :sleep Thats Mega Bytes.

(Speed tests run usually in Mega Bits = Mbps)

Today - just tried, vodafone are outdoing them selves - either that or the pipe is open a bit ;) 16MB/S. (16 MegaBytes in 1 Second.)
Which by the speed test in simple terms would read as 160Mbps

Just to show I'm not exaggerating :

6774

If I tried that again tonight at 6pm - I'd be lucky if I even got into the MB's

Edited: With the advent of more TV on line with the likes of Netflix The internet often will come to a crawl from about 6 -10PM, simply because the ISP's cant handle the traffic being requested / generated.

inphinity
15-10-2015, 12:36 PM
It depends what you do. If you're already getting a good ADSL2+ connection at ~20Mbps, then streaming etc probably won't be much different. If you're on a poorer connection, and get buffering, or can't get HD streams etc, you'll get an improvement. You'll also find normal activities less impacted by any background downloads etc going on.

linw
15-10-2015, 01:22 PM
Then there is the subjective element - it just feels less susceptible to 'funny things happening' like bad joints (got enough personal ones!) and rain induced phenomena etc etc.

Kame
15-10-2015, 07:33 PM
16MB/second = 128Mbps, Theres 8bits to a byte.

undiejuice
15-10-2015, 08:22 PM
To Quote 1101 :)

Got that right ;) :D

Heres an example: I'm on Vodafone Cable, a speed test, depending on the time of day usually tops out at what I'm meant to get around 130Mbps.

Saturday late afternoon I downloaded a ISO 4.1GB, it came through at roughly 1.5 MB/s :sleep Thats Mega Bytes.

(Speed tests run usually in Mega Bits = Mbps)

Today - just tried, vodafone are outdoing them selves - either that or the pipe is open a bit ;) 16MB/S. (16 MegaBytes in 1 Second.)
Which by the speed test in simple terms would read as 160Mbps

Just to show I'm not exaggerating :

6774

If I tried that again tonight at 6pm - I'd be lucky if I even got into the MB's

Edited: With the advent of more TV on line with the likes of Netflix The internet often will come to a crawl from about 6 -10PM, simply because the ISP's cant handle the traffic being requested / generated.

Damn, that really, really sucks! What a waste of time me doing all of this for nothing!

undiejuice
15-10-2015, 08:24 PM
It depends what you do. If you're already getting a good ADSL2+ connection at ~20Mbps, then streaming etc probably won't be much different. If you're on a poorer connection, and get buffering, or can't get HD streams etc, you'll get an improvement. You'll also find normal activities less impacted by any background downloads etc going on.


I think my internet connection is good when watching Netflix, it takes 2 seconds to load before I can watch movies. A side from that, downloading is reasonable, for my ADSL plan at the moment.

undiejuice
15-10-2015, 08:29 PM
You need to be realistic.
Upload speeds will be faster , Winupdates might be faster ?

Download speeds are ALLWAYS limited by the speed every step between you and the other end. Just because you have 100Mb/s , doesnt mean the other
end will feed downloads to you at that speed.



Im on ADSL, I have NEVER maxed that out on downloads, never even been close . Fibre wouldnt change that.

Ah crap!!! I want to know how long anyway it will tak to download windows updates (250+mb) in the first instance?. Anyhow, my class mate from South Korea tells me downloading GB files takes seconds and he doesnt bother downloading videos, because it is so fast............

undiejuice
15-10-2015, 08:32 PM
Obviously, fibre in the end is crap, just hype and will do Jack S for a S load of nothing, yet will cost $99.00 per month for mere F ALL, if I'm not going to see any difference with my current plan!

Thanks for your help everyone. Appreciate that. Peace!

wainuitech
16-10-2015, 07:00 AM
16MB/second = 128Mbps, Theres 8bits to a byte. OOPS - you're right , brain fade :xmouth: Not always thinking correctly with all these pain killers I'm on at the moment.

Still getting 16MB/Sec though ;) as picture shows


Damn, that really, really sucks! What a waste of time me doing all of this for nothing! No not really, if you have the capacity to use the speed, then its better than having a low top end, and being held back.

As 1101 pointed out, The internet speed is always determined by where the data is coming from, traffic etc.

linw
16-10-2015, 08:58 AM
Can't see how fibre can be a bad decision considering ISPs advertise it for the same price as ADSL.

CYaBro
16-10-2015, 09:22 AM
Unless you go for one of the 100mbps download fibre plans, and not the basic 30mbs, then you won't notice any difference at all really. Compared to a decent ADSL2 connection.
However if you send a lot of big emails, or upload files to the cloud, then the faster upload of fibre can make a huge difference, although VDSL would be better as well.

Also if you only have one device connected to the internet then you probably won't notice much difference, but if you have lots of computers and mobile devices, and maybe streaming devices like AppleTV etc, then more bandwidth is always better.

For an office environment then it's a no-brainer, fibre is the way to go.
It's much more reliable than a xDSL connection too, as well as more bandwidth.
We've been on the NorthPower fibre here at work for 5 years now and it's gone down maybe 4 or 5 times over that period. (Unscheduled outages)

dugimodo
16-10-2015, 09:22 AM
I'm on VDSL and get around 25/10 speeds and really good performance so I'm dubious about it but fibre has a lot of advantages and may actually be slightly cheaper (there's a $10 extra charge for VDSL). the thing that worries me is the posts I've seen from people who get great speed test results as expected but have trouble streaming without buffering which is a sign of poor ISP backhaul bandwidth or other network issues.

On my VDSL I can watch a streaming HD video while downloading files and playing games online and it normally all works flawlessly. Occasionally I may lag a little if the download is getting really good speeds but usually not. More commonly though I just game while watching youtube or netflix. I'm keen on fibre but worried it'll give a worse experience than my VDSL. Ultimately though it should be better.

Fibre is much less prone to cable faults, there are no copper joints to degrade and fibre itself is basically waterproof. It's also immune to electrical interference and crosstalk from adjacent cables. Nothing is immune to someone digging a hole through it of course. It has a much higher theoretical speed capability, much higher than is being offered by current broadband technology. Telcos and ISP's routinely use fibre to carry 2.5 & 10Gbps signals within their networks for example so it's potentially much more future proof.

I probably will make the change myself, but I am a little nervous about it. The UFB guys are cabling my street at the moment so it should be available soon.

Agent_24
17-10-2015, 06:58 AM
If I was in your situation to keep ADSL or upgrade to Fibre 100, I would take the fibre straight away.

True, not all servers will let you download at 100mbit, but if you use multi-source downloads of any kind you can expect a decent speed increase.

You can always run multiple downloads at once, too. Only get 1.6MB/s per download? Well, download 10 files at once then... it's still an improvement!

gary67
17-10-2015, 08:15 AM
If only we could
We live in a large rural community yet adsl2 is our only option with no plans to run fibre. Yet fibre is already in the village.

bk T
17-10-2015, 10:16 AM
I am with Fibre, and will never go back to ADSL/VDSL if I have the option.

Digby
17-10-2015, 07:40 PM
Yes I have just got UFB ( the lowest entry point plan) and I don't really notice any speed difference in my browsing.
Its not lightning fast or snappy.

But uploading a file is WAY faster.

If I had paid the $1,000 dollars it would have cost them to connect me up I would be VERY PISSED OFF at wasting a thousand dollars of my hard earned money.

At this stage I am not prepared to pay extra for a faster plan as that may not give me much faster speeds anyway.
It seems that once again here in NZ were are behind the state of the art technology they have in places like Japan or South Korea.

So we can probably blame the South Pacific Cable owners.

pctek
18-10-2015, 06:25 AM
ISPs advertise it for the same price as ADSL.

The slowest fibre plan is the same price....and that is one I wouldn't bother with.....reminds me of the slow adsl when they first started broadband.
And as with any broadband, it's not just the speed of the method - there's traffic and all that which affects your end performance.
Still fibre is faster than the alternatives.....

Agent_24
18-10-2015, 07:33 AM
Yes I have just got UFB ( the lowest entry point plan) and I don't really notice any speed difference in my browsing.
Its not lightning fast or snappy.

Your internet connection will make a difference, up to a point. Then the next point is the browser itself. The page rendering takes time, even if the content downloads quickly.
Make sure you're running a fast\up-to-date browser to begin with, use adblock etc to reduce what has to load etc.

Alex B
18-10-2015, 09:31 AM
UFB completely removes the issue of the slow last mile. Copper is a best effort service and speeds break down over a relatively short distance compared to UFB. If you live next to a cabinet/exchange then you can expect good ADSL/VDSL speeds. Live 3k away from an exchange it's a different story. With UFB if you live 30-40k from an exchange you can expect the same quality of service as if you lived right next door. It also doesn't suffer issues with corrosion or bad internal wiring like copper services do.

Upload speeds are also 10Mbps vs 1Mbps with UFB vs ADSL.

beetle
18-10-2015, 10:34 AM
We looked at getting fibre, it was cheaper than what we had at the time.......

but :( because of the house being on a hill and the road below us, the cable would skim the cars in the driveway...so they said not possible unless we want to pay for a new frame for the roof to make it higher up............... and he said would be no speed change on what we currently have, he just said we may get better stability. the last time I got a frame / aerial / stand thing made it was over $800 and I dont have that sort of $$ so we canceled it. well hopefully its cancelled lol

pctek
18-10-2015, 12:08 PM
UFB completely removes the issue of the slow last mile. L.

https://www.chorus.co.nz/what-is-broadband/slow-broadband-speeds/things-that-make-your-broadband-slower

If your broadband is being delivered over copper, the biggest factor impacting your speed is your distance from the cabinet or exchange. The further away you are, the greater the attenuation on the copper and the slower your broadband speed. We can only deliver broadband over copper within 5 to 6 kilometres of our exchange or cabinet.

We're installing new fibre-fed cabinets in some rural areas as part of the Rural Broadband Initiative. Use our broadband capability map to see if you're within reach of our fibre network or when it's coming to your area.

Fibre is much less sensitive to distance and will ultimately be your best option for high quality, reliable broadband.
Capacity

Capacity is also referred to as congestion.

The time of day or night when you use the internet can impact your broadband speed. In busier periods of the day you can experience slower speeds, for example in the afternoon when school and work finish and more people get online at home. Internet traffic reaches a point where a component within our network, your broadband provider's network or even the website you're accessing, exceeds capacity.

This could be caused by backhaul which is how we connect your property to our core network. Please contact your broadband provider and ask them to investigate.

If you're accessing an international website, their peak time will be different to ours. Try accessing a local website to see if that makes a difference.
Broadband plan

If your speed drops suddenly and you've been downloading lots of content, you may have exceeded your the data limit on your broadband plan and as a result, your speed is decreased. Please contact your broadband provider if you want to upgrade your plan.
Modem

Your modem can impact your broadband speed and like most technology, age is a factor. If your modem is five years or older, you may need to upgrade to a newer model. Chat to your broadband provider as some provide modems with plans or shop at an electronics store.

If you've upgraded to VDSL you'll definitely need a VDSL modem. Contact your broadband provider as they have tools to confirm if your modem is the issue.
Wiring

Poor wiring is one of the leading causes of broadband speed issues. Unless your property is less than 10 - 15 years old, it's likely the wiring and jackpoint/s were installed to deliver a good phone service, not high speed broadband. This contributes to increased attenuation and slower broadband speeds.

You can reduce the impact of home wiring by adding filters to all jackpoints used to deliver phone-based services including any used by your home alarm.

If you're building or renovating, please read our information on home wiring including information on star-wiring and Cat6 cables.
Hardware and software

Older computers and software can impact your broadband performance. Improve your broadband speed by:

regularly updating your internet browser
cleaning out old software you no longer use
using less memory-heavy software while browsing
regularly deleting cookies and internet browser history
updating your security software

Copper quality

The quality of the copper delivering your broadband can impact attenuation and speed. If you think there's an issue with our copper, please contact your broadband provider and ask them to investigate. They have diagnostic tools they can use to confirm a specific problem.
WiFi

If you are doing a speed test don't do it via WiFi but connect your computer directly to your modem using an ethernet cable.

Accessing the internet through a WiFi modem/router, particularly if there are a number of devices connecting at the same time, can slow your broadband speed.

The location of the WiFi device has an impact, particularly if you are at the other end of the house or have dense walls.
The other end of the line

Your broadband experience can be affected by who you are connecting to and how they are connected to the internet. International connections, the capacity of their line and the content you are connecting to can all affect the quality of broadband.

John H
18-10-2015, 01:29 PM
I have gone on to fibre at our new (new to us, not a new build!) home in Taupo.

First, I tried to get on to VDSL through Vodafone, but there were no slots left in our area for any service provider, so the only choice was between ADSL and fibre. Secondly, I found out that both Actrix and Spark were selling ADSL and fibre for the same price. Third, Actrix could not provide a fibre connection in our street. Fourth, Vodafone was out because I was fed up with the way they have kept messing us around. Finally, Spark had a special deal on for Fibre 30 Unlimited - same price as ADSL Unlimited, and cheaper than VDSL, 6 months free on Lightbox. Whilst I didn't want to go to Spark, there was really no alternative, and fibre was the best deal on offer. Our house already had the Chorus box installed as well.

The Chorus guy told me that copper will continue to go up in price, and fibre will continue to go down (the prices had already changed that way during the period we were being faffed around by Vodafone.

My experience thus far is that we almost always get speeds that are twice the download speeds we have had for years in North Canterbury on ADSL2. I normally get around 28 - 30. At the moment, Sunday afternoon, Speedtest shows 28.48 Mbps, and 10.58 Mbps upload. I rarely got better than 14 Mbps download on ADSL2.

Do I notice the difference in speed? No when it comes to web surfing. Yes when it comes to downloading updates/large files, and streaming video. I never upload any significant size files, so that has not been significant for me.

Digby
18-10-2015, 05:36 PM
Your internet connection will make a difference, up to a point. Then the next point is the browser itself. The page rendering takes time, even if the content downloads quickly.
Make sure you're running a fast\up-to-date browser to begin with, use adblock etc to reduce what has to load etc.

So do those lucky people in Japan and South Korea need to worry about the latest browser etc.

No, its just that here in NZ we are being sold a pup with UFB.
When it slows to a halt with Netflicks etc, then maybe our politicians will force South Pacific Cable and Chorus to give us some decent speeds.

dugimodo
18-10-2015, 10:20 PM
You want prices and service like Japan, move there. We don't have the economy to support what they have or the population density. Also our cable run is slightly longer.
We get pretty good service all things considered, better than a lot of Aussies get for example. They only just started running fibre to their cabinets let alone houses.

I get tired of people bitching about not getting everything larger countries on the other side of the world get at the same prices, we are small and remote and not overcrowded and that's part of what makes NZ awesome in my opinion.
If that means things cost a bit more I'm ok with that.

1101
19-10-2015, 08:48 AM
Want better fibre speeds, THEN PAY FOR IT.
if you want it, and are willing to pay the premium price for a premium service .........
ie not domestic price for an overloaded domestic service : this is the result of home internet price wars , a race to the bottom .

You will still be limited by the speeds at the other end . :thumbs:

linw
19-10-2015, 09:02 AM
Yep, that old kiwi desire to have the best as long as the cost doesn't go up!

Digby
20-10-2015, 05:51 PM
Yep, that old kiwi desire to have the best as long as the cost doesn't go up!

I know that we are a small isolate country, but why do we always have to pay so much more for things.
A small premium would be OK.

And I'd rather we were a bigger isolated country.
It would make things far more vibrant and cost effective.

There are hundreds of cities in the world with more people than NZ.

Digby
20-10-2015, 05:51 PM
Yep, that old kiwi desire to have the best as long as the cost doesn't go up!

I know that we are a small isolated country, but why do we always have to pay so much more for things.
A small premium would be OK.

And I'd rather we were a bigger isolated country.
It would make things far more vibrant and cost effective.

There are hundreds of cities in the world with more people than NZ.

dugimodo
20-10-2015, 06:42 PM
[QUOTE=Digby;1233355
And I'd rather we were a bigger isolated country.
It would make things far more vibrant and cost effective.

There are hundreds of cities in the world with more people than NZ.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't make them better. Personally I'd rather we were not any bigger.
We do get ripped off on some things, but we also have some unrealistic expectations at times. Running a fibre cable from NZ to anywhere is not a trivial undertaking and nobody will spend that kind of money without a reasonable expectation of a good return.

Anyway, back to the original topic :) Fibre is better. Maybe not as much better as expected but the cost is similar so why not adopt it.

decibel
20-10-2015, 06:59 PM
So do those lucky people in Japan and South Korea need to worry about the latest browser etc.

No, its just that here in NZ we are being sold a pup with UFB.
When it slows to a halt with Netflicks etc, then maybe our politicians will force South Pacific Cable and Chorus to give us some decent speeds.
Netflix (New Zealand) won't be going over the Southern Cross Cable.

Agent_24
20-10-2015, 09:59 PM
If they already waived the $1000 install fee as you claimed, that's pretty good of them...

undiejuice
22-10-2015, 05:48 AM
Can't see how fibre can be a bad decision considering ISPs advertise it for the same price as ADSL.

I agree, that is what I noticed too. Cheers.

undiejuice
22-10-2015, 06:45 AM
Hi dugimodo,

Interesting reading. Thanks for your input by the way. My fibre is going to be installed today above ground; over the roof of my house so I cannot wait to see the end result.

undiejuice
22-10-2015, 06:50 AM
We looked at getting fibre, it was cheaper than what we had at the time.......

but :( because of the house being on a hill and the road below us, the cable would skim the cars in the driveway...so they said not possible unless we want to pay for a new frame for the roof to make it higher up............... and he said would be no speed change on what we currently have, he just said we may get better stability. the last time I got a frame / aerial / stand thing made it was over $800 and I dont have that sort of $$ so we canceled it. well hopefully its cancelled lol

Man, that must sux. Sorry to hear that.

undiejuice
22-10-2015, 06:58 AM
To ALL of the people here who have contributed to this forum, I would like to say a big mighty thanks. It has been very helpful and insightful reading peoples experiences and advice. I did not think this conversation would continue, so I thought at least to drop by and say thanks anyway.

Cheers.

Chilling_Silence
22-10-2015, 12:59 PM
Netflix (New Zealand) won't be going over the Southern Cross Cable.

Not entirely true.
It depends on a lot of things. I know Vibe have a local cache, but in order to have a local cache they expect you to be doing a few gigabits during peak, and they also expect something like a 5gbps pipe to another of their CDNs (Sydney for example).

So it's entirely possible that Netflix NZ comes from Australia etc

Chilling_Silence
22-10-2015, 01:04 PM
At this stage I am not prepared to pay extra for a faster plan as that may not give me much faster speeds anyway.
It seems that once again here in NZ were are behind the state of the art technology they have in places like Japan or South Korea.

So we can probably blame the South Pacific Cable owners.

Actually the _main_ cost if you have a 30/10 or 100/20 UFB connection, goes to Chorus. Roughly 50% goes straight from your ISP to Chorus.
This leaves them with very little for:
- Tech support
- Accounting and billing
- General business infrastructure
- Technical infrastructure
- Buying routers to 'give' or 'lease' to customers
- And finally, international bandwidth

Speeds will vary depending on your ISP, how fast they're racing to the bottom with their pricing, and subsequently how much they're oversubscribing their international bandwidth.

Alex B
22-10-2015, 01:31 PM
Not entirely true.
It depends on a lot of things. I know Vibe have a local cache, but in order to have a local cache they expect you to be doing a few gigabits during peak, and they also expect something like a 5gbps pipe to another of their CDNs (Sydney for example).

So it's entirely possible that Netflix NZ comes from Australia etc

I thought most of the big ISP's had confirmed (or not denied in some cases) that they had Netflix Open Connect boxes in their infrastructure.

Chilling_Silence
23-10-2015, 06:32 AM
I'm sure many would, it makes sense, but anything other than the big 5-odd players and you're still possibly getting your Netflix from overseas.

Digby
23-10-2015, 05:08 PM
Actually the _main_ cost if you have a 30/10 or 100/20 UFB connection, goes to Chorus. Roughly 50% goes straight from your ISP to Chorus.
This leaves them with very little for:
- Tech support
- Accounting and billing
- General business infrastructure
- Technical infrastructure
- Buying routers to 'give' or 'lease' to customers
- And finally, international bandwidth

Speeds will vary depending on your ISP, how fast they're racing to the bottom with their pricing, and subsequently how much they're oversubscribing their international bandwidth.

I sort of agree with your 50%.

But not all UFB connnections are with Chorus they only have 75% of the NZ roll out (not mine)

And How much of that 50% to Chorus goes to the Southern Pacific Cable?

Chilling_Silence
23-10-2015, 06:36 PM
None. None of that goes to the Southern Cross Cable. That's PURELY for your UFB connection, so they backhaul the data from your house to your ISPs datacenter.
The "International bandwidth" which I listed at the bottom of that list, that's the southern cross cable effectively. This is why there's only ~$10-20 difference between a really %@#$ oversubscribed ISP and one that'll maintain excellent bandwidth throughput at all times.