PDA

View Full Version : What Windows 10 Collects about YOU !!!!



wainuitech
28-08-2015, 11:28 PM
Interesting article reposted on the Insider Program. Lest see MS deny this one ;)


As said in: http://www.disclose.tv/news/a_terrifying_traffic_analysis_of_windows_10/121544

Some Czech guy did a traffic analysis of data produced by Windows 10, and released his findings the other day. His primary thesis was that Windows 10 acts more like a terminal than an operating system -- because of the extent of the "cloud" integration, a large portion of the OS functions are almost dependent on remote (Microsoft's) servers. The amount of collected information, even with strict privacy settings, is quite alarming. Information transmitted: All text typed on the keyboard is stored in temporary files, and sent (once per 30 mins) to:

oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net

pre.footprintpredict.com

reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com

There isn't a clear purpose for this, considering there there's no autocorrect/prediction anywhere in the OS (There is autocorrect in certain text fields, but the supposed purpose for transmitting these keystrokes is to improve autocorrect across devices. Whether a full keylog is necessary for this (as opposed to just corrections) is questionable. Furthermore, this appears to still occur even if the user is not signed in to a Microsoft account, eliminating the "across devices" benefit. Perhaps there is a global autocorrect dictionary that benefits all users, but the privacy implications of an un-disableable always-on keylogger outweigh these potential benefits.). The implications of this are significant: because this is an OS-level keylogger, all the data you're trying to transmit securely is now sitting on some MS server. This includes passwords and encrypted chats. This also includes the on-screen keyboard, so there is no way to authenticate to a website without MS also getting your password.

Telemetry is sent once per 5 minutes, to:

vortex.data.microsoft.com

vortex-win.data.microsoft.com

telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com

telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net

oca.telemetry.microsoft.com

oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net

sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com

sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net

You might think that "telemetry" has to do with OS usage or similar... turns out it's telemetry about the user. For example, typing a phone number anywhere into the Edge browser transmits it to the servers above. In another example, typing the name of any popular movie into your local file search starts a telemetry process that indexes all media files on your computer and transmits them to: df.telemetry.microsoft.com reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com pre.footprintpredict.com It's hard to imagine any purpose for this other than the obvious piracy crackdown possiblities. When a webcam is first enabled, ~35mb of data gets immediately transmitted to:

oca.telemetry.microsoft.com

oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net

vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com

i1.services.social.microsoft.com

i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net

Everything that is said into an enabled microphone is immediately transmitted to:

oca.telemetry.microsoft.com

oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net

vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com

pre.footprintpredict.com

i1.services.social.microsoft.com

i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net

telemetry.appex.bing.net

telemetry.urs.microsoft.com

cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net statsfe1.ws.microsoft.com

If this weren't bad enough, this behaviour still occurs after Cortana is fully disabled/uninstalled. It's speculated that the purpose of this function to build up a massive voice database, then tie those voices to identities, and eventually be able to identify anyone simply by picking up their voice, whether it be a microphone in a public place or a wiretap on a payphone. Interestingly, if Cortana is enabled, the voice is first transcribed to text, then the transcription is sent to: pre.footprintpredict.com reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com df.telemetry.microsoft.com If Windows is left unattended for ~15 mins, a large volume of traffic starts being transmitted to various servers. This may be the raw audio data, rather than just samples. " copied.
1 person had this question

blanco
29-08-2015, 02:49 AM
Wow! That is really interesting. Thanks Wainui

Lawrence
29-08-2015, 07:08 AM
A lot of the telemetry also is been rolled out for Win 7/8.0/8.1 in the latest updates

I take most of these could be Blocked by the user for these

pctek
29-08-2015, 07:44 AM
Another reason to not bother with it.

apsattv
29-08-2015, 09:10 AM
So hackers simply ddos those addresses and Every Internet connected copy of windows 10 on the planet stops working?

wainuitech
29-08-2015, 10:28 AM
A lot of the telemetry also is been rolled out for Win 7/8.0/8.1 in the latest updates

I take most of these could be Blocked by the user for these Last night I went through the firewall settings on Eset Smart Security, removed the telemetry rule. This morning when opening a browser to come look at the morning browse through the forum, the very first popup from the firewall asking for permission was microsoft.telemetry, and the page hadn't even fully loaded yet.

Lawrence
29-08-2015, 10:40 AM
Last night I went through the firewall settings on Eset Smart Security, removed the telemetry rule. This morning when opening a browser to come look at the morning browse through the forum, the very first popup from the firewall asking for permission was microsoft.telemetry, and the page hadn't even fully loaded yet.


AV suppliers would be under Microsofts thumb,a lot of the Hosts Files and scripts been written to circumvent telemetry are being flag by AV as threats

Win 7/8.0/8.1 may be safer as updates could be not installed/uninstalled that install Telemetry

http://www.techworm.net/2015/08/new-windows-788-1-updates-spy-on-you-just-like-windows-10.html

Speedy Gonzales
29-08-2015, 10:43 AM
Use the program I posted a while ago Shutup10 that'll disable what you dont need inc telemetry. You dont need scripts or whatever

wainuitech
29-08-2015, 10:51 AM
AV suppliers would be under Microsofts thumb,a lot of the Hosts Files and scripts been written to circumvent telemetry are being flag by AV as threats

Win 7/8.0/8.1 may be safer as updates could be not installed/uninstalled that install Telemetry

http://www.techworm.net/2015/08/new-windows-788-1-updates-spy-on-you-just-like-windows-10.html That's true, but any reasonable firewall, if set to interactive should block / ask first either in or out.

Heres an example as a test: Removed Cortana from the list, then within a minute or two -----

6715

When first installing W10 then putting in the Eset Smart security, set to interactive - the damn thing goes absolutely nuts with requests - so many from MS you cant keep up ;)

Edited: Interesting link Lawrence
:thanks

Driftwood
29-08-2015, 11:15 AM
Interesting thread.

mzee
29-08-2015, 12:42 PM
I will never use Windows 10, it is 100% malware. I also have updates disabled as there is more risk from Microsoft than any other source. The only update I did in W7 was SP1. I am now using W8.1 because it is faster than W7 and still have Updates turned off. I have Avira & Malwarebytes . When Windows decides to download 450Mb of updates, are these deleted later, or does Windows become bloated?

blanco
29-08-2015, 07:35 PM
https://davescomputertips.com/recent-updates-escalate-data-collection-in-windows-7-and-8-1/?utm_source=wysija&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weekly+Recap+Newsletter

Driftwood
30-08-2015, 12:04 PM
So how comfortable do you feel about keying in your bank details now?

Digby
30-08-2015, 12:10 PM
It does not worry me too much.

But I think that if they word gets around that MS are collecting a lot of data, then either people will stop getting it so that MS will change their policies.
Or some third party apps will be developed so that people can turn it all off easily.

It is probably illegal - so that will also stop them once they get found out in the main stream press.

fred_fish
30-08-2015, 12:30 PM
It is probably illegal - so that will also stop them once they get found out in the main stream press.

Whose law?

NZ law won't apply as you are 'exporting' your information.
Under US law you are a 'foreign national' (and probably wear a towel on your head) and have nearly zero legal protection at all.
As to where the data is actually stored and what law (if any) actually applies is probably a matter that needs debate.

wainuitech
30-08-2015, 12:46 PM
It does not worry me too much.

But I think that if they word gets around that MS are collecting a lot of data, then either people will stop getting it so that MS will change their policies.
Or some third party apps will be developed so that people can turn it all off easily.

It is probably illegal - so that will also stop them once they get found out in the main stream press. Its not illegal -- When ever someone installs a program or Operating System you always at some point have to click "I Agree" to the terms and conditions other wise it wont install.

Simply saying " I didn't read them" before clicking is no excuse. ( I've personally had that excuse used in court - guess who won ) :D

One part of the 45 Pages worth ( which I did Read from start to finish)
:tui: :lol:

Says you agree to the usage. windows-10-recording-users-every-move-358952 (http://www.newsweek.com/windows-10-recording-users-every-move-358952) Several links to terms, privacy etc in that link.

Guess its one of those things, you want to use Windows OS or Google or many other services, you need to agree. Many don't like it, but there are ways being developed all the time to block some aspects as its been mentioned in earlier posts :)

kioti
31-08-2015, 10:48 AM
Excellent info on W10. I had clicked a Pop up in Taskbar/W10 icon (I applied for the free upgrade and am inline for it) that said "Cortana is watching you" about Cortana and what is does and how it can be disabled......closing gate after horse has bolted. And I find the info that new Windows updates for W7 have these 'telemetry' things in them. No more W7 updates for me. And I decided I would not accept the free upgrade to 10.
Good stuff Wainuitech, thanks.

nmercer
31-08-2015, 11:19 AM
If people cared about this they wouldn't be using Apple products, Google products like Android, Chrome and ChromeOS or Facebook.

Seems they still use all those products.

Driftwood
31-08-2015, 11:21 AM
You cant win though.
They will get you eventually when they pull the plug on win7

nmercer
31-08-2015, 11:26 AM
Excellent info on W10. I had clicked a Pop up in Taskbar/W10 icon (I applied for the free upgrade and am inline for it) that said "Cortana is watching you" about Cortana and what is does and how it can be disabled......closing gate after horse has bolted. And I find the info that new Windows updates for W7 have these 'telemetry' things in them. No more W7 updates for me. And I decided I would not accept the free upgrade to 10.
Good stuff Wainuitech, thanks.

How can a personal assistant like Cortana work if it doesn't know about you?

You trust Google more than Microsoft?

nmercer
31-08-2015, 11:30 AM
Windows 10 collects information so the product will work better for you.

You are always in control of your information with the ability to determine what information is collected.

No other company is more committed, more transparent and listening harder to customers on this important topic than Microsoft is.

Read the facts here http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/overview-windows-10-privacy not the scaremongering

Speedy Gonzales
31-08-2015, 11:35 AM
No, otherwise, I would use chrome. I dont.

Renegade
31-08-2015, 12:33 PM
Just type in you're going to assassinate Obama and see if a SWAT team locks down the neighbourhood.

wainuitech
31-08-2015, 12:40 PM
These places like MS, Google etc, must have a damn good collection of all the good porn sites if some customers computers are anything to go by.:lol:

Renegade
31-08-2015, 01:45 PM
LOL!

"I don't know how those got there"....

:tui:

tcam478
31-08-2015, 03:58 PM
That "Don't forget to reserve your copy of Windows 10" box has been popping up a lot lately. Thanks for this... I might give it a miss now.

rumpty
31-08-2015, 04:53 PM
Windows 10 collects information so the product will work better for you.

You are always in control of your information with the ability to determine what information is collected.

No other company is more committed, more transparent and listening harder to customers on this important topic than Microsoft is.

Read the facts here http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/overview-windows-10-privacy not the scaremongering

I've read the Microsoft article that you refer to, nmercer, but I still do not want to provide any personal data to MS in W10, if I can avoid it. I don't want or need the personal "help" that W10 offers.

The Newsweek item referenced in post #16 is typical of many that have appeared since Windows 10 came out, so it seems that there is quite a lot of concern over this privacy matter, concern that wasn't out there with previous Windows OSs.

wainuitech
31-08-2015, 04:59 PM
Windows 10 collects information so the product will work better for you.

You are always in control of your information with the ability to determine what information is collected.

No other company is more committed, more transparent and listening harder to customers on this important topic than Microsoft is.

Please tell us this then, WHY does Microsoft almost Hide the customize set up option when either upgrading or installing from fresh. IF they are so up front the default option would allow a person to select options. BUT by default everything is turned on ??

Please don't post back a standard read the privacy lists etc, which is common for MS to point to.

Its proven by people with the skills that more is being sent back than advertised /advised.

Even with everything disabled under the customize its still sending back as proven by Smart Security firewall blocking MS outgoing requests time and time again.

To say its more transparent is not correct. Read the original Article in post #1 and then deny its happening ;)

wainuitech
31-08-2015, 06:53 PM
Adding to the last line in the above post -----please dont say its false, heres some proof, just one of many popups all exactly the same but different IP addresses ;)

6720

Lawrence
31-08-2015, 07:13 PM
A few have traced through Whois lookup MarkMonitor https://www.markmonitor.com/ which is Partnered with Microsoft no doubt for their security plus wide ranging data collection to counteract Piracy,Branding,Security etc,MarkMonitor has fish hooks into everything to maintain security against those who indulge criminal acts

Sooooo basically you have nothing to worry about if you keep your nose clean,indulge in illegal activity online or are connected with a group under their watch which is committing criminal activity then expect some intervention

Google MarkMonitor :eek:

1101
01-09-2015, 11:22 AM
From one of the links in this thread...
"While I can understand and appreciate people’s concerns over privacy issues, I believe that users are generally overreacting to a lot of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) that has been written about Microsoft’s data collection policies. "

and..
"I might add that all this is not new; similar concerns were raised way back when Vista was released: 20+ Windows Vista Features and Services Harvest User Data for Microsoft. "

Who knows what the truth really is

This sort of thing happened back in Win95 btw, when caught there was an official ~oops, how did that happen ~
So if really concerned, then dont use ANY MS product, or Apple, or Goggle/gmail/chrome,
or Android (the worst)

Me, I'll just stick a 3rd party firewall on my Win7 ,and see what pops up. Any suggestions which firewall to install?

ruup
01-09-2015, 12:00 PM
Not only Windows 10....grab your tinfoil hats!

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2978239/windows/microsoft-slips-user-tracking-tools-into-windows-7-8-amidst-windows-10-privacy-storm.html

mzee
01-09-2015, 12:35 PM
All the more reason for keeping updates turned off. My W7's had the updates disabled after Sp1. At one stage I used Zone alarm fire wall, and then Comodo. Is it worth the hassle of training another fire wall?

rumpty
01-09-2015, 02:52 PM
...Me, I'll just stick a 3rd party firewall on my Win7 ,and see what pops up. Any suggestions which firewall to install?

I'm using Tinywall on W7 to control the outgoing stuff, and I have installed it on my W10 Insider as well. Whether it will stop the Microsoft Compatibility Telemetry data, and that sort of thing, if I want it to, who knows? Does anyone know?

I am impressed by that picture of Wainuitech's, with Smart Security 8 doing just that!

wainuitech
01-09-2015, 04:03 PM
I'm using Tinywall on W7 to control the outgoing stuff, and I have installed it on my W10 Insider as well. Whether it will stop the Microsoft Compatibility Telemetry data, and that sort of thing, if I want it to, who knows? Does anyone know?

I am impressed by that picture of Wainuitech's, with Smart Security 8 doing just that! Smart security does if its in interactive mode. Not to sure if the automatic mode does or not.

KarameaDave
01-09-2015, 07:45 PM
Thanks Wainuitech

Just confirms and re-enforces the opinion I have had for years

Believe Nothing that M$ says, and assume the worst.

wainuitech
01-09-2015, 07:54 PM
Right at the moment I hope MS are collecting data -- Some damn windows update just went in, and all hell has broken lose - everything is crashing, programs not opening, even CMD wouldn't open in safe mode, was going fine last night till the update went in. I've removed it, made it a bit better, at least now its usable. Now to fix it fully -- Just as well I know how. ;)

So MS collect this --- Fix the heap of ****en crap you call windows 10 :mad::mad:

Good time to change my Sig as well :D

KarameaDave
01-09-2015, 10:55 PM
I knew waiting was a good idea, the only question is, how long?
364 days from release? :waughh:

apsattv
02-09-2015, 08:31 AM
A week or 2 after the 1st service pack release

pcuser42
02-09-2015, 09:33 AM
A week or 2 after the 1st service pack releaseNo service packs with Windows 10, instead it's constantly updated. I don't buy all this FUD though.

rumpty
02-09-2015, 10:05 AM
Right at the moment I hope MS are collecting data -- Some damn windows update just went in, and all hell has broken lose - everything is crashing, programs not opening, even CMD wouldn't open in safe mode, was going fine last night till the update went in. I've removed it, made it a bit better, at least now its usable. Now to fix it fully -- Just as well I know how.

Do you have a KB number for the update you suspect?

nmercer
02-09-2015, 12:06 PM
All the more reason for keeping updates turned off. My W7's had the updates disabled after Sp1. At one stage I used Zone alarm fire wall, and then Comodo. Is it worth the hassle of training another fire wall?

choosing not to patch your machine with security updates is pretty odd.

mzee
02-09-2015, 01:02 PM
choosing not to patch your machine with security updates is pretty odd.

On the odd occasion when I have allowed automatic updates it has ended in strife. I sometimes look through the available updates to see if there is anything I need.

nmercer
02-09-2015, 01:04 PM
Users have consistently proven they’ll have trade privacy for usability.

At least Microsoft/Facebook/Google/Apple/etc are generally trustworthy and have incentives to keep the data private and well secured

All these random websites and their tracking services are far less trustworthy.

wainuitech
02-09-2015, 01:04 PM
Do you have a KB number for the update you suspect? No I don't sorry, Some updates went in (automatically) and needed to restart, on starting everything hung, lagged, or crashed - left it a while to see if it would sort its self out, It didn't. :(

Had similar happen before when Microsoft put out hardware updates that make things worse.

Restarted it, and went into safe mode, tried a few options, settings wouldn't open neither would the control panel, even CMD wouldn't open, they would try , they all would flash then close.

Tried a few things using DaRT, ( Microsoft Diagnostics and Recovery Toolset) but didn't really help - Ended up running system restore back a day and that at least got it working mostly, but still not right.

Ended up putting back a daily backup image from Sunday when it was working fine - when booting, good as gold,:thumbs: ran windows updates manually and no updates were available older than the 28th Sept.

pcuser42
02-09-2015, 02:56 PM
On the odd occasion when I have allowed automatic updates it has ended in strife. I sometimes look through the available updates to see if there is anything I need.I've never had a problem with automatic updates breaking anything. I'd take security first any day.

fred_fish
02-09-2015, 06:45 PM
choosing not to patch your machine with security updates is pretty odd.

Obfuscating what an update contains seems pretty odd (for a "trustworthy" provider).

nmercer
02-09-2015, 06:53 PM
Obfuscating what an update contains seems pretty odd (for a "trustworthy" provider).

welcome to the new world. Apple and Google have been doing it for ages.

If it bothers you install the LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) of Windows 10 which gets no features, only security updates. Or install Linux where you can inspect the code yourself and determine if you want to install that patch.

fred_fish
02-09-2015, 07:40 PM
welcome to the new world. Apple and Google have been doing it for ages.Again - really? So if I spot some local hoodlums beating you up on the street, you'ld be fine if I come along and had a go too? After all you were letting them do it before I arrived...


If it bothers you install the LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) of Windows 10 which gets no features, only security updates.No thanks.
Or install Linux where you can inspect the code yourself and determine if you want to install that patch.
Well, yes, you can inspect the code if you want, but updates are generally accompanied by a changelog saying exactly what it's for and what it fixes, not just vague "benefits" (for who, one wonders...).

Alexandersim
03-09-2015, 10:13 AM
Very interesting thread indeed, I am not as much a geek so had to read a lot more to understand some of the claims and now I'm freaked. Though not using it.

1101
03-09-2015, 02:06 PM
I've never had a problem with automatic updates breaking anything. I'd take security first any day.

I have, on a few PC's. It happens . Nothings perfect .
Ive had system devices stop working & 3rd party software stop working after an update : all fairly easily fixed IF you are tech savvy .

heres some, just to show these issues are real (but NOT common)
http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/03/ms-update-3033929-causing-reboot-loop/
http://www.zdnet.com/article/has-microsoft-stopped-testing-their-updates/

And another, this from the horses mouth , so to speak :-)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3024777

Unfortunately , the alternative (not doing updates) cant really be recommended either . Waiting a week or 2 is the best way, as MS has in the past pulled some flaky updates.
Thats not an easy option now though, for Win10 home.

Ms have released a tool to "hide' updates(Win10 home) that you find to cause issues. Why wasnt this tool included OEM ??
http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/how-hide-specific-updates-windows-10#slide-0-field_images-57901

wainuitech
03-09-2015, 09:34 PM
Some interesting articles -- Claims stopping Windows snooping and stopping Windows updates ( even on home) While the updates is temporary, would be handy for WHEN Microsoft puts out dicky updates :)

First two pinned articles. http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/179-windows-10/