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pct
19-07-2015, 05:05 PM
Hey, just wondering if Cortana will be available for NZ users when upgraded to Windows 10 & if not, is there any way around it? Thanks

pcuser42
19-07-2015, 06:04 PM
If it's not available in New Zealand upon launch you can change your regional settings to say you're in a country that has it. It's worked for me on an earlier build and on Windows Phone.

pct
19-07-2015, 06:35 PM
Thanks pcuser42, sounds good. I remember reading something about Windows 10 being available free for starters & having to pay after 2 years or something similar? That's not true, is it?

What's the thoughts on Windows 10, worth an upgrade from 8.1 ?

wainuitech
19-07-2015, 06:48 PM
I remember reading something about Windows 10 being available free for starters & having to pay after 2 years or something similar? No no no no -- :p

Heres the guff.

If you have Windows 7 or 8.1 the upgrade to W10 is free. You have till 29th July 2016 to upgrade. If you dont upgrade before 2016, you will then have to pay for it.

If you upgrade before 29th July 2016 its yours for ever, it never expires.

If you are on the insider program, which is a tester program, you get W10 as it goes on / Develops for free. BUT you have to have a MS insider account ( free) the software you get is still testing software so you will get all the latest builds ( and bugs), features before the general public, but time limited. Leave the insider program and all bets are off :)

The testing Versions are for people who like playing with new ( and unstable) builds, and when it all turns to custard you shrug your shoulders and start again. Of course any faults, it helps to report back to MS so they can fix them ( sometimes) ;)

The latest Build 10240 is okish ( sometimes) - but still unstable. Some people have no problems others have more than I care to mention.

To keep up with the "latest" (when we post) follow / check out This Thread (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?138792-Windows-10-Latest-Tech-Preview/page38)

You decide if you want to upgrade when appropriate :)

The debate on insider is whether 10240 RTM is actually the build going to general public - Some say its not as its to unstable still. MS are not saying :xmouth:

nmercer
20-07-2015, 09:43 AM
10240 is RTM

but you need to get your head around the fact that their really never is a "final" version of Windows 10

Its an ongoing development, together with you guys giving feedback on features you want and how they should be prioritised. Crowd sourced.

Every month there will be patches

3 times a year there will be major feature releases

so the July 2015 build is done and we are working on new features

wainuitech
20-07-2015, 10:22 AM
10240 is RTM

but you need to get your head around the fact that their really never is a "final" version of Windows 10

Its an ongoing development, together with you guys giving feedback on features you want and how they should be prioritised. Crowd sourced.

Every month there will be patches

3 times a year there will be major feature releases

so the July 2015 build is done and we are working on new features Thanks Nath, for the confirmation.

Looks like after the 29th Techs will be busy. I'm saying that because in its current form its causing a lot of problems with breakages, one minute it works fine next its playing up. Basically unstable in some areas.

One that I cant seem to find a fix for - the insider Hub App, tried everything, and its still not working, all the others are now that I rebuilt / reinstalled them Via Powershell.

Hope MS get the delivery via Windows updates sorted, LOTS of people on the insider still cant get any upgrades through, some are stuck several versions back. Theres all sorts of fixes offered, some work some don't.

If Microsoft want W10 to be a success, they need to get it right. In bold- in other words its coming out on the 29th still in Beta, with too many faults ;)

On going development is fine, but unstable is not.

nmercer
20-07-2015, 12:20 PM
Insider Hub has been removed since 10142, and will come back after RTM

The unstable/breakage issues you describe are not widespread as far as I can tell

The normal public will not have the insider Windows Update issues you have described as they will be doing an upgrade from prior version of Windows not build to build Windows 10 upgrades

Poppa John
20-07-2015, 12:21 PM
So is Cortana something we "Need" Will be "Useful"? What will it do for us? Thanks. PJ

Speedy Gonzales
20-07-2015, 12:28 PM
It's like siri for the Iphone. I've got it on my windows phone. Don't really use it tho. But have tried it

wainuitech
20-07-2015, 12:29 PM
Insider Hub has been removed since 10142, and will come back after RTM

The unstable/breakage issues you describe are not widespread as far as I can tell

The normal public will not have the insider Windows Update issues you have described as they will be doing an upgrade from prior version of Windows not build to build Windows 10 upgrades

The upgrades are coming Via windows update currently, so yes that's true about the insider updates.

As for the troubles ?? are you really serious ? Have you actually had a look at how many people are having troubles with upgrading,one of the reasons to change to Windows updates from insider was of course to test out the update procedure - ( MS engineers and moderators posted it - which hasn't gone exactly to good for many ) and all the other various problems.

The way it is at the moment its to unstable.

As one of the members posted

Just sit back with your pop corn and watch the fun during August

Does the below look like the actions of a stable OS ? These are consistent on a daily basis. The reason for not shutting down correctly was because the whole thing froze sometimes other times it restarted by its self. Other OS's run perfectly fine, so its not hardware.
6605

pct
20-07-2015, 01:51 PM
thanks for clarifying wainuitech & others, helpful as always

re "If you dont upgrade before 2016, you will then have to pay for it." what happens if you upgrade but need to do a reset later on, will it roll back to 8.1 & need to pay for 10??

Yeah Cortana is probably not something I'll use much but something to give a go & see what it's like!

wainuitech
20-07-2015, 03:38 PM
thanks for clarifying wainuitech & others, helpful as always

re "If you dont upgrade before 2016, you will then have to pay for it." what happens if you upgrade but need to do a reset later on, will it roll back to 8.1 & need to pay for 10??

Yeah Cortana is probably not something I'll use much but something to give a go & see what it's like! When you upgrade, we are told there will be the option to download / create a W10 ISO of the Operating system, would pay to do that and keep is someplace safe like on an external HDD.

When you need to do a reinstall ( even after July 2016) using the ISO either burnt to DVD or USB drive, no problems, because the hardware (your computer) will be registered with Microsoft, so when doing a reinstall it will check to see if it was originally upgraded before July 2016, if it was alls well.

What I'm not to sure about and maybe nmercer can advise (he works for MS) is whether MS will be issuing new keys or if the old ones will work or you don't need any at all as the original key will be recorded at MS.

Where it will also become interesting is if changing hardware, to what point will it be considered a different computer ? From what I gather (and read) its changing the motherboard will be the trigger.

wainuitech
20-07-2015, 04:00 PM
Edit to above ( timer ran out) Just found the following on the insider Site :)


To enable clean installation of Windows 10 on devices that upgraded and activated online using the free upgrade offer

1. You will be able to download and create installation media on a USB drive or DVD for the appropriate Windows 10 Edition
2. You will be able to skip entering the product key during Windows 10 Setup. Windows 10 will activate online automatically on such devices. The skip option is only available when booting from media and launching setup

The automatic online activation will occur seamlessly after clean installing Windows 10 if the device had previously upgraded and activated online the same Edition of Windows 10. No product keys are required.

Full Post, all 53 pages of it ;) http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/reinstalling-windows-10-after-upgrade (http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/reinstalling-windows-10-after-upgrade/578d0b7f-57e4-4893-b9d1-6cfac0d6290a?auth=1)

gary67
20-07-2015, 06:51 PM
So you have to upgrade first then do the clean install, lets hope the upgrade works every time then.

No real answer on what happens if you change say one component and you had a retail key originally, I don't so won't affect me. Wonder what the price of Win10 will be to buy anyway as I'm overdue for a rebuild but can't afford to do it yet.

Poppa John
20-07-2015, 07:20 PM
When you upgrade, we are told there will be the option to download / create a W10 ISO of the Operating system, would pay to do that and keep is someplace safe like on an external HDD.

When you need to do a reinstall ( even after July 2016) using the ISO either burnt to DVD or USB drive, no problems, because the hardware (your computer) will be registered with Microsoft, so when doing a reinstall it will check to see if it was originally upgraded before July 2016, if it was alls well.

What I'm not to sure about and maybe nmercer can advise (he works for MS) is whether MS will be issuing new keys or if the old ones will work or you don't need any at all as the original key will be recorded at MS.

Where it will also become interesting is if changing hardware, to what point will it be considered a different computer ? From what I gather (and read) its changing the motherboard will be the trigger.

I think I understand this right. When I get the W10 I don't have to replace W8.1 straight away, I can d/l to flash drive or CD/DVD first, then install later? Yes? Thanks. PJ

wainuitech
20-07-2015, 07:52 PM
I think I understand this right. When I get the W10 I don't have to replace W8.1 straight away, I can d/l to flash drive or CD/DVD first, then install later? Yes? Thanks. PJ Hope so because that's What I'll be wanting to do on the main Computers.

But to test it all out, I have several different PC's setup with W7 home,Pro & 8.1 just plain installs all up to date. These are all ready to get the ISO's when they are available.That way when upgrades fail for customers Via windows updates (and they will) the ISO's are available.

On the insider program Microsoft have changed the upgrade process from Insider to Windows update & the failures are still happening if that's the right terminology :D

There are LOTS of people stuck on previous builds that wont upgrade Via Windows Update. The only way its been working for some is to get the ISO others have made and upgrade from that.

Nathan posted earlier on:

The normal public will not have the insider Windows Update issues you have described as they will be doing an upgrade from prior version of Windows not build to build Windows 10 upgrades :illogical

If MS really think its all going to upgrade for everyone without any hitches I think they will be in for a bit of a disappointment. Hopefully for MS it goes reasonably well, but from past experiences it doesn't. Only time will tell.

Already got several people booked appointments to upgrade, they want me to image their current setups, and install W10. That way if W10 turns to a lemon, the original install is saved.

Personally I'm not against W10 at all, but when seeing all the problems others are still having on what is meant to be the RTM ---- its not a good look. (even on fresh installs)

gary67
21-07-2015, 06:42 AM
I'll be making fresh images of our computers this coming weekend, won't be home to do it the day before Win10 comes out, although I'm not expecting to upgrade for a month or some, just being cautious.

effie c
21-07-2015, 10:24 AM
Hi all,

Many thanks to each poster on this subject.

Question :

As I have backed up into E drive ( computer h/d ) and an external harddrive now in a secure place, so will that be sufficient to fall back to and reinstall my W 7 Pro if things go pearshaped? I do have the key and install CD anyway but it would be nice to have reassurances.

As I see it Microsoft hope to have a fault free upgrade ready July 29--- cynics say "yeah right " but assuming the success of the upgrade, in theory I can install W 10 straight away-- Yes ? or no!

Effie c

linw
21-07-2015, 03:34 PM
@PJ and WT. I think it is well publicised that the upgrade path is via windows update not via a downloaded ISO. You are welcome to prove me wrong!

There are many treatises on this but Paul Thurrott's piece, is worth reading https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/3898/a-few-more-answers-about-windows-10-upgrades

PJ, if you don't want to install win 10 straight away, cancel the reserved status if you have accepted that, and just wait to do the windows update when you choose. Just do it before the free upgrade offer expires in a year's time!

@effie c - yes, you can install win 10 straight away (or, at least when your turn comes up!). You will also be able to fall back to win 7 if you wanted to, but hopefully, you won't need to or want to. Good luck but I don't think you will need it. At least you have prepared backups.

wainuitech
21-07-2015, 04:20 PM
@PJ and WT. I think it is well publicised that the upgrade path is via windows update not via a downloaded ISO. You are welcome to prove me wrong!

There are many treatises on this but Paul Thurrott's piece, is worth reading https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/3898/a-few-more-answers-about-windows-10-upgrades

PJ, if you don't want to install win 10 straight away, cancel the reserved status if you have accepted that, and just wait to do the windows update when you choose. Just do it before the free upgrade offer expires in a year's time!

@effie c - yes, you can install win 10 straight away (or, at least when your turn comes up!). You will also be able to fall back to win 7 if you wanted to, but hopefully, you won't need to or want to. Good luck but I don't think you will need it. At least you have prepared backups.

There will be a option to upgrade from ISO, or reinstall From a ISO.

As per MS Q /A


You’ll also be able to create your own installation media like a USB drive or DVD, and use that to upgrade your device or reinstall after you’ve upgraded. Full Details: http://answers.microsoft.com (http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/wiki/insider_wintp-insider_install/how-to-upgrade-from-previous-versions-of-windows/31722b30-1da9-42bb-b331-0edc4649bf43)

nmercer
22-07-2015, 06:18 AM
We'll be launching a tool that will download Win10 bits and create USBs for you in one-step

If you upgrade you have 30 days to use Go back which will bring you to Windows 8.1 but if you refresh or reset you will go back to 10

The free upgrade can be deployed in two ways:

Through Windows Update
The simplest option is to connect each device to Windows Update, and upgrade to Windows 10 through that in-place upgrade experience.

Deploy an upgrade image
Upgrade media will be provided as part of the free upgrade offer. This media can be used on a machine (or multiple machines) to initiate the upgrade process. During the process, a Windows 10 license will be obtained from the Windows Store for the device, in the same way that a license would be obtained when upgrading through Windows Update.

The Windows 10 license created for the device during the upgrade is a consumer license that is tied to the device. The license will continue to work for reinstalling Windows 10 after the free upgrade period ends- on the same device only.

Free upgrade available for qualified Windows 7 and Windows 8 devices. See http://windows.com/windows10upgrade.

gary67
22-07-2015, 06:53 AM
Thanks Nathan, so I'm guessing no more having to write the licence number down anywhere to get lost then? What about if you buy Win10 for a new machine will you still get sent a licence to plug in to prove you paid?

wainuitech
22-07-2015, 08:22 AM
The Windows 10 license created for the device during the upgrade is a consumer license that is tied to the device. The license will continue to work for reinstalling Windows 10 after the free upgrade period ends- on the same device only.

Free upgrade available for qualified Windows 7 and Windows 8 devices. See http://windows.com/windows10upgrade. Question: Thats more or less what the OEM has always been.
What will happen if a motherboard Dies on a New computer, still in warranty, lets say 6 months old - It wont reactivate because the hardware is different, --In the past when this has happened and you need to reinstall / activate you would call MS tell them and a new code is given and entered. How will the Auto license handle that ?

1101
22-07-2015, 09:37 AM
Question: Thats more or less what the OEM has always been.
What will happen if a motherboard Dies on a New computer, still in warranty, lets say 6 months old - It wont reactivate because the hardware is different,

Doesnt the OEM lic mean, that a significant hardware change (motherboard) would require a new lic anyway. ;)

Would the Win10 auto lic be based on(linked to) network card MAC address + CPU s/n , some bios identifier etc etc .
So would a change in mb would cause auto lic to fail (as expected) ?

wainuitech
22-07-2015, 09:53 AM
Doesnt the OEM lic mean, that a significant hardware change (motherboard) would require a new lic anyway. ;)

Would the Win10 auto lic be based on(linked to) network card MAC address + CPU s/n , some bios identifier etc etc .
So would a change in mb would cause auto lic to fail (as expected) ? "Technically" yes, although try telling a customer with a New Computer that their Licence they have just brought, and still has the gloss on it cant be used because it died with the motherboard-- Take another example, the boards less than 2 weeks old and dies ? . No need to try to hard to guess what the response would be :D

Had to do it in the past, call MS, tell them its a new build, XX Days / Months old still in warranty, the Motherboard was Classed as DOA or replaced under warranty -- 100% they have said, thankyou for explaining the problem, I'll give you a new activation code -- punch in the code and away you go again.

linw
22-07-2015, 11:40 AM
How long has your second upgrade path been out in the wild, Nathan?

Just curious as I have read many articles/discussions by people supposedly informed in these things but never seen this method described before.

Thanks for the clarification - sounds good.

One week to go!!