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Tony
06-04-2015, 05:20 PM
Since I have gone to VDSL I have a surplus ADSL wireless router, and I was wondering if I could plug it into am ethernet port in a distant part of the house and effectively use it as a wireless extender. I would want it just to provide the wireless access, i.e. no DHCP, no gateway, as that would be provided by my main router.

Is that do-able, or am I conceptually wrong? What settings do I need to look at to get it set up that way?

All (constructive :) ) contributions gratefully received.

wainuitech
06-04-2015, 05:28 PM
Generally yes you can, just need to disable some settings and enter others. Depending on the make of your Router will depend on where the settings are, but the following article gives the basics : http://www.tweaktown.com/guides/1575/using_an_old_router_as_a_diy_wireless_access_point/index.html

Tony
06-04-2015, 05:43 PM
Thanks Wainui - I'll check it out.

gary67
06-04-2015, 07:17 PM
If it won't work I have an extender here still boxed that I might be willing to exchange for money.

Kame
06-04-2015, 08:48 PM
Easiest thing to do, ensure IP is diff, disable dhcp, set wireless the same, make sure wireless on both use the same channel, link it and test it out.

Nothing really special to this setup, its more difficult if you don't use the Ethernet and aim to set up a repeater.

Cheers,

KK

Kame
06-04-2015, 08:49 PM
Hey Gary,

What's your extender?

Maybe interested.

Cheers,

KK

Tony
06-04-2015, 10:23 PM
Easiest thing to do, ensure IP is diff, disable dhcp, set wireless the same, make sure wireless on both use the same channel, link it and test it out.

Nothing really special to this setup, its more difficult if you don't use the Ethernet and aim to set up a repeater.

Cheers,

KK

That's interesting - In the link Wainui posted they say the wireless channels should be different. I'm still working my way through it - I'll report back.

Thanks for the offer but I'm not in the market for an actual extender - I'm only trying this because I (maybe) have the gear.

Kame
06-04-2015, 11:22 PM
Should test both methods out, same or diff. The thing is most routers select channels automatically to not conflict with the neighbours channel which is a different network.

Same network, same SSID, same everything for it to work seamlessly and is also the approach for repeaters.

I just set this up just last night so haven't had issues but just tried channel differences and got connected at 12Mbps, whether its related or not I dunno but I switched it back.

Cheers,

KK

Kame
06-04-2015, 11:43 PM
Just had a look at the link, but it seems he keeps track of which router he's accessing, that's why he uses diff SSID and a diff channel as its treated as separate.

Also means two logins, delays in switching between one or the other, the first one you connect to will hold onto you till the signal is lost, not till you get closer to a better network.

Keep it all the same if it does not matter which one you connect to, the main router keeps track of those connected.

Cheers,

KK

Tony
07-04-2015, 08:53 AM
Just had a look at the link, but it seems he keeps track of which router he's accessing, that's why he uses diff SSID and a diff channel as its treated as separate.

Also means two logins, delays in switching between one or the other, the first one you connect to will hold onto you till the signal is lost, not till you get closer to a better network.

Keep it all the same if it does not matter which one you connect to, the main router keeps track of those connected.

Cheers,

KK

I'd sort of come to the same conclusion. I'll be trying it out this morning.What I'm looking for is just the ability to seamlessly acquire a signal from the strongest available.

gary67
07-04-2015, 09:04 AM
Hey Gary,

What's your extender?

Maybe interested.

Cheers,

KK

Netgear WN604

wainuitech
07-04-2015, 09:10 AM
A true wireless extender actually picks up the original signal and pushes it along. While these do work, they are always slower than the original, at times by 50%

If you are using old equipment with new, sometimes the older stuff wont work as you may expect, it quite simply cant handle the newer equipment. By making everything the same on two devices, effectively you are actually creating a separate connection with the same name, which can be confusing and actually cause more troubles.

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_repeater fully, it explains it better.

Tony
08-04-2015, 02:28 PM
After a lot of experimenting and more reading, I think I've done it, and more simply than in the method in Wainui's original link. See here (http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/diy-it-guy/diy-setting-up-wireless-access-points-as-repeaters-to-extend-wireless-range/).

What you do is set up your current router and the old one to have static IP addresses, the same SSID and shared key, disable DHCP on the second router, put them on different channels and off you go.

It seems to be working, though atm there is not a great improvement in signal strength even when I am near the second router. A bit more checking is needed, but it does seem to work. You only see one network name on my phone and laptop, but funnily enough I see two identical network names on the new smart tv, each showing quite different signal strengths

Tony
10-04-2015, 03:22 PM
I'm still working on this - what I said in the previous post doesn't seem to be working after all.

I have a weird thing happening. The "old" router (Netcomm) has become very iffy about accepting a password. If I have no security, then I can connect to the network from my phone no problem. If I enable security and create a passkey for the router (I'm using something dead simple and insecure atm for ease of use), the router accepts the password I create, but when I try to connect, the phone says I have an incorrect password. I've tried it with several different password setups on the router and it seems to be the same every time. I've turned the router on and off, and also totally reset it, but it is always the same.

Ideas??

Tony
10-04-2015, 03:25 PM
OK, interesting. I can connect through the netcomm router with my laptop - the password is OK, but not from the phone.

I'm confused...

Kame
10-04-2015, 07:43 PM
Maybe you phone does not support the encryption you are using.

Cheers,

KK

Tony
10-04-2015, 07:48 PM
Maybe you phone does not support the encryption you are using.

Cheers,

KK

I did wonder about that, but things have changed (again). I went out for a couple of hours and when I came home with nothing changed, everything worked fine. Weird.

wainuitech
10-04-2015, 08:33 PM
funnily enough I see two identical network names on the new smart tv, each showing quite different signal strengths Funny that :), two devices, with the same SSID what else would you expect ?


After a lot of experimenting and more reading, I think I've done it, and more simply than in the method in Wainui's original link Errrrrrr -- Two completely different connection types. One is a Access point the other is an extender, The extender option will be more unstable and give more problems ( as you have already described) - both are set up different so its a bit hard to compare instructions.

Tony
10-04-2015, 10:35 PM
Funny that :), two devices, with the same SSID what else would you expect ?Yes, but why only one on the phone and laptop?


Errrrrrr -- Two completely different connection types. One is a Access point the other is an extender, The extender option will be more unstable and give more problems ( as you have already described) - both are set up different so its a bit hard to compare instructions.Since I did that post and have done more reading I have realised that you are of course quite correct. What I have been hoping to achieve is the extender, but I think the two access points is actually more sensible. This whole exercise, apart from self-education, has been to give my new smart tv a decent signal to work with, For that I just need an access point that it can be permanently associated with. For laptop/phone it is just as easy to connect to whichever one is best at the time.

Tony
10-04-2015, 11:41 PM
Funny that :), two devices, with the same SSID what else would you expect ?Further to that, what I was expecting was something that looked to the world like a single access point, where a device would connect and use whatever signal was the strongest. I now realize that was (a) not necessary for my purposes and (b) probably not feasible anyway, although I was only seeing one access point on the phone and laptop. I could never tell which connection was actually being made and the signal strength didn't stay as strong as I was expecting/hoping, which plays to your second point in that post.

Kame
11-04-2015, 02:03 PM
Tony,

The idea is to give you access, it is by no means the best way to improve net speeds. Signal strength is used more like a radar and determines quality, look at TVs, if signal is poor it's fuzzier, network protocols however send the missing pieces. Speed however is decided on the components that drive it, so the ethernet to the router might be 100Mbps (assumed), that's a guide on the maximum you could expect from that router. It's signal could be stronger, this does not mean it's going to be faster, just means you're in a better location to receive from it.

If you were considering speed, then the link should be more than what could be output, so 1Gbps ethernet would benefit the setup and all components would need to be changed to reflect that or you boost the signal strength at the main router, if you looked at how antenna are designed, you could quite possibly replace the existing one on the router with one you can make that could give you better coverage and boost your signal.

Your setup is not a wireless range extender but is the easiest way to create access, an extender/repeater takes the wifi signal from the main router and receives that at the other router which then passes it on from there, difference is ethernet isn't the link but the wifi is and theoretically 300Mbps says it would be faster but because the second router is doing both sending and receiving, it's cut by 50% (can improve this result with routers suited for this), it has to receive and send instead of just sending like the main router. Also the signal from the main to the second, determines the quality and will then be reduced more so by the signal the second router sends to the device, so even more degrading, again things can be done here to improve quality. The reason to keep all the SSID the same, was to eliminate the need for multiple logins, but it's simple enough to change that design because even extenders/repeaters can have the same SSID or be changed, just depends on what you would do, e.g. slowest internet one could be used as bandwidth control for people you don't want to take up all your speed.

The thing is, you're learning more about it which is great. I have extenders/repeaters, linked routers, powerline adaptors, all sorts of things around my house, most of it just to test what would be better in my situation. I wanted to be able to walk around and not worry about spots I couldn't get the net and basically just left everything connected. Same SSID because it's so easy to hit the WPS switch on the main router and get everything to clone themselves to that.

Cheers,

KK