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mzee
01-08-2014, 11:23 AM
US irritation grows over Gaza bloodshed
The Obama administration has condemned the shelling of a UN school in Gaza, using language that reflects growing irritation…

At the same time USA is not placing an embargo on the supply of arms and military equipment to Israel.
Israel seems to forget that that the land of Israel actually belongs to Palestine. It was used by the British as a refugee camp for Jews running away from the conflict in Europe. The Jews have stayed there and are trying to encroach further into Palestine.

1101
01-08-2014, 11:51 AM
double standards, from all those complaining ??

So you will being doing the right thing , & boycotting everything US made in protest, as you should
Arnt China, Russia, in fact most countries just as bad.
NZ isnt squeaky clean either.

kahawai chaser
01-08-2014, 03:04 PM
Germany will be compensating about a billion (http://goo.gl/xfF1it) in home care to holocaust survivors, maybe they should have offered land long ago to the Jews. Maybe time for a new promised land for them. Mass murderer Himmler's grand niece (http://goo.gl/gvbYu1) who was married to a Israeli Jew could lead a cause for them. They been fighting since 1967.

paulw
01-08-2014, 03:15 PM
US irritation grows over Gaza bloodshed
The Obama administration has condemned the shelling of a UN school in Gaza, using language that reflects growing irritation…

At the same time USA is not placing an embargo on the supply of arms and military equipment to Israel.
Israel seems to forget that that the land of Israel actually belongs to Palestine. It was used by the British as a refugee camp for Jews running away from the conflict in Europe. The Jews have stayed there and are trying to encroach further into Palestine.

You may want to go back a few weeks and see who started all this . It wasn't Israel..

kahawai chaser
01-08-2014, 04:23 PM
Or go back decades. Or perhaps centuries, as Jews (I think) claim it was their land way back.

gary67
01-08-2014, 04:55 PM
I thought the bible (which I will never read) called the Jews a peoples without a home I.e landless. I could be wrong though as I said I haven't read that work of fiction.

R2x1
01-08-2014, 05:28 PM
Blo**y treaty settlements are just endless trouble wherever they occur. Future wars should incur the extermination of the side that loses, just because they are losers. The other side should be exterminated for picking on a weaker group. Not a true 100% extermination, that would be cruel. The 10 poorest people on each side should be spared, because they are unlikely to have started the stoush. We may lose a few nations, but fortunately we have too many of them, so the slow learners can be winnowed. As a further means of tidying things up on our favourite planet, immediately a conflict commences all leaders and officials of religions and political parties throughout the Earth should be flogged into insensibility, then revived to be burnt at the stake. (Detecting a change in Act leaders as they become insensible is the trickiest part of this whole scheme.)
Executioners would be volunteers, appointed for life with a maximum term of 6 weeks. Owners of cats that pee on my doorstep can be training material for executioners in waiting. Naturally PF1 members in good standing are exempt (unless they own an Apple). ;)

prefect
01-08-2014, 05:58 PM
Long live Palestine.

mzee
01-08-2014, 07:58 PM
double standards, from all those complaining ??

So you will being doing the right thing , & boycotting everything US made in protest, as you should
Arnt China, Russia, in fact most countries just as bad.
NZ isnt squeaky clean either.

I have nothing against Russia or China, but I have been abused by both Britain & USA. First Britain conscripted me to the army and made me fight for my country which they promptly gave away to the same terrorists that we had been fighting. I also experienced a lot of arrogant American Peace Cor in Tanzania trying to convert the locals into being American puppets.
As for New Zealand when I came here in 1967 I had a look around and decided not to stay, but the Reserve Bank latched on to my Sterling so I could not leave, and took a job in Hamilton and the rest is history! In retrospect they did me a favour as I married a Kiwi and had 3 sons and a successful business for many years.

Lurking
01-08-2014, 08:55 PM
Gaza seems to be littered with UN Schools !!, what the h e l l are they teaching these people ?.

UN people in Gaza give the Israelis GPS co-ordinates, even tho there's a rocket behind the building, no wonder it gets hit.

More abuse has happened in Syria with 160,000 dead and homeless but what the heck, lets just be anti Semitic.

Wonder what the Bushs' would have done about it all !.

Lurking.

prefect
02-08-2014, 08:13 AM
The German SS have been criticized for fighting hard in WW2 but the jews are much more brutal than the SS ever were. Just like the Whites in South Africa had to surrender to the blacks, world opinion will seal the jews fate one day.
I was in the military for 27 years and if some officer said fire on a known school I would refuse the order just like decent soldiers would. Jews however are not decent fighters just barbarians.

paulw
02-08-2014, 02:01 PM
The Arabs basically want to complete what Hitler didn't do in WW2 and wipe them all out. Of course the liberals in west will stand by again and let it happen..

pctek
03-08-2014, 08:14 AM
The German SS have been criticized for fighting hard in WW2 but the jews are much more brutal than the SS ever were.

Well not quite. They're not stuffing people into ovens.

At the end of WWII Britain decided they could have "Israel". Some Palestinians were happy to stay and live in "Israel" along with the new owners.
That wasn't allowed, they were raped, shot, chased out.

The US gave weapons to Israel and the fighting has continued ever since, but of course that distracts from the oil pipelines so the US and UK are happy with that arrangement.

pctek
03-08-2014, 08:27 AM
I thought the bible (which I will never read) called the Jews a peoples without a home I.e landless. .

It's actually about various tribes (of Israelites) who wander about with their animals and at various times get - with gods permission or help - the chance to attack other peoples towns and cities and take over.

Jericho for instance.

God chose them you see. Why a god would do such a thing with it's creation of peoples beats me....anyway later Jesus cancelled that idea apparently and everyone got to be part of gods chosen ones - so long as they did the right godly things.
The traditional jews don't exactly go along with that idea....

The "bible" was just a bunch of various writings, and there were heaps, that said all sorts of bizarre things - anyway after Constantine, it was decided to have the "official" religion, and the "official" collection of the writings, therefore they picked out what suited their religion at the time and made the "bible". The rest of the writings were discarded and declared pagan, gnostic, heresy etc.... Except for Catholics who have 2 extra writings in their bible as opposed to everyone elses.

The fighting has continued ever since.

kahawai chaser
03-08-2014, 09:51 AM
Well not quite. They're not stuffing people into ovens.

Or throwing children alive in the camp fires, stomping on newborn, and the lucky ones were dismembered alive, injected with poisons, and many hung on hooks. The SS with their Einsatzgruppen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen) made sure to wipe out Jewish/polish villages. SS dehumanized their regular soldiers as hidden German pow tapes (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/secret-nazi-tapes-shocking-germany-1336922) (from UK daily mirror) revealed their atrocities.

prefect
03-08-2014, 04:59 PM
Sure there were some bad apples in the SS just like there was some in the Wehrmacht.

gary67
03-08-2014, 05:04 PM
It's actually about various tribes (of Israelites) who wander about with their animals and at various times get - with gods permission or help - the chance to attack other peoples towns and cities and take over.

Jericho for instance.

God chose them you see. Why a god would do such a thing with it's creation of peoples beats me....anyway later Jesus cancelled that idea apparently and everyone got to be part of gods chosen ones - so long as they did the right godly things.
The traditional jews don't exactly go along with that idea....

The "bible" was just a bunch of various writings, and there were heaps, that said all sorts of bizarre things - anyway after Constantine, it was decided to have the "official" religion, and the "official" collection of the writings, therefore they picked out what suited their religion at the time and made the "bible". The rest of the writings were discarded and declared pagan, gnostic, heresy etc.... Except for Catholics who have 2 extra writings in their bible as opposed to everyone elses.

The fighting has continued ever since.

And I always thought the bible was the ramblings of a mad man a true work of fiction. So what your actually saying is what I said they were a people without a land

Winston001
03-08-2014, 08:58 PM
The Jewish people were "dispersed" ( the Diaspora) out of Judea by the Romans in CE 70, and the land was renamed Palestine. A few obscure Jewish settlements remained.

In the 1880s the Zionist movement arose in the US and Britain with the aim of helping Jews return to their ancient home. Land was purchased from Palestinians who were happy to sell what was essentially desert to naive settlers. The land in bits and pieces was bought and paid for and took decades to be made fertile.

Palestine at this time was held by the Ottoman Empire and land sales required the local Governor's consent. The Ottomans had no sympathy for Jews so didn't make it easy.

In 1917 came the Balfour Declaration that Britain would look kindly on a homeland for the Jewish people. Deliberately vague and meaningless given that WWI was at a stalemate, but eventually Britain did take over the Palestinian Mandate.

In 1948 the United Nations (not Britain or the USA alone) resolved that parts of Palestine would become the new nation of Israel. In May 1948 four Arab armies attacked the new state. The attacking soldiers told the local Palestinians to leave, on the promise that they could come back in a few days and share the spoils. To this day that is one of the core reasons for Palestinian's loss of land.

More wars occurred and at one point Israel controlled the whole of the Sinai Peninsula, which is larger than Israel itself. But it gave the Sinai back to Egypt in the hope of peace and in fact that worked. The only bordering nation which has continued to fight is Syria.

CliveM
03-08-2014, 10:52 PM
Nice to have a few facts introduced into the discussion Winston.

prefect
04-08-2014, 06:20 AM
I see the filth bombed a UN school last night.

gary67
04-08-2014, 06:36 AM
The Jewish people were "dispersed" ( the Diaspora) out of Judea by the Romans in CE 70, and the land was renamed Palestine. A few obscure Jewish settlements remained.

In the 1880s the Zionist movement arose in the US and Britain with the aim of helping Jews return to their ancient home. Land was purchased from Palestinians who were happy to sell what was essentially desert to naive settlers. The land in bits and pieces was bought and paid for and took decades to be made fertile.

Palestine at this time was held by the Ottoman Empire and land sales required the local Governor's consent. The Ottomans had no sympathy for Jews so didn't make it easy.

In 1917 came the Balfour Declaration that Britain would look kindly on a homeland for the Jewish people. Deliberately vague and meaningless given that WWI was at a stalemate, but eventually Britain did take over the Palestinian Mandate.

In 1948 the United Nations (not Britain or the USA alone) resolved that parts of Palestine would become the new nation of Israel. In May 1948 four Arab armies attacked the new state. The attacking soldiers told the local Palestinians to leave, on the promise that they could come back in a few days and share the spoils. To this day that is one of the core reasons for Palestinian's loss of land.

More wars occurred and at one point Israel controlled the whole of the Sinai Peninsula, which is larger than Israel itself. But it gave the Sinai back to Egypt in the hope of peace and in fact that worked. The only bordering nation which has continued to fight is Syria.

Thanks Winston rather than myth spread in a book

pctek
04-08-2014, 06:45 AM
The Jewish people were "dispersed" ( the Diaspora) out of Judea by the Romans in CE 70, and the land was renamed Palestine. A few obscure Jewish settlements remained.



Ah but pre-Rome? They weren't dispersed, just taken over.....and before the romans was all the wandering about and taking over others, according to that book anyway......

B.M.
04-08-2014, 11:16 AM
I was in the military for 27 years.

Ahhhh, so that’s how our National Anthem came about. :D

Lurking
05-08-2014, 04:56 PM
Ah but pre-Rome? They weren't dispersed, just taken over.....and before the romans was all the wandering about and taking over others, according to that book anyway......

Book by New Zealander Frederick Robert Augustus GLOVER tells the story of pre Roman Israelites, just starting to read it on the net. They were taken captive by the Assyrians modern day Germans about 700BC.

Lurking.

Billy T
05-08-2014, 05:52 PM
From my readings of the history of the Jewish people and their fight over the centuries for a place to call home, the reaction by Israel to Hamas rocket fire and tunnel infiltration was telegraphed well in advance, and it is no surprise that they declined the invitation to lie down and die. If the rockets stopped, the tunnels were filled in, and the Gaza radicals reined in, peace would ensue.

Following Hitler's solution to the 'Jewish Problem,' which was an attempt to wipe the entire Jewish population off the face of the earth, man woman and child, (and he would have done so had he not been defeated), the Jewish People swore that they would never again lie down and submit to any aggressor who attacked their people. To that end they have become an 'army state' with every adult liable for the call of duty to defend Israel.

That is the heart of it all, but it seems to me that they do not strike first, but once attacked, they retaliate with a 'two for one' policy.

If those who inhabit the Gaza strip, and the rogue States that provide an inexhaustable supply of rockets for Hamas to fire across the border, do not wake up soon, there will be no Gaza strip, it will be left a smoking ruin. On the other hand, if the rockets stop, and the tunnels cease to carry militants from Gaza to Israel, peace will return.

Maybe I'm wrong, but old history supports the current history.

Billy

prefect
06-08-2014, 06:13 AM
What is needed is for some of the Arab countries and Iran to get their arse into gear and build up some nuclear weapons and create a balance with Israel. Its disgusting that non Arab Iran is supporting Palestine more than the Arab countries.

pctek
06-08-2014, 07:57 AM
They're all mad. Look at the comments (on both sides) - they killed X family member, therefore we will kill them - teach our children to kill them etc etc.

paulw
06-08-2014, 08:38 AM
What is needed is for some of the Arab countries and Iran to get their arse into gear and build up some nuclear weapons and create a balance with Israel. Its disgusting that non Arab Iran is supporting Palestine more than the Arab countries.

Iran would just nuke Israel in the name of Allah and to hell with the consequences. I guess Prefect you are all in favor of "The final solution"

BBCmicro
06-08-2014, 09:20 AM
, if the rockets stop, and the tunnels cease to carry militants from Gaza to Israel, peace will return.


You sound like Lord Farquaad. "If only I could get rid of that unsightly swamp, the kingdom of Duloc would be perfect."

I am surprised at you Billy

BBCmicro
06-08-2014, 11:39 AM
IMHO the whole sorry mess would have been sorted out decades ago if American Christians actually practised Christianity instead of only pretending to.

The fundamental rule of Christianity is

"being compassionate trumps being right"

In other words, even when you are in the right, the better course of action is to take a hit.

I find it ironic that American Christians are worried about "going to heaven" yet in their actions they seem hell-bent on going the other way.

I picture the following exchange on Judgement Day:

(US Christian): Lord, we opposed gay marriage. Let us into heaven.

(JC): See this child here, paralysed from the neck down and calling for her dead mother, why did you do this to her?

Lord, this child was collateral damage in a just war.

Eh....? Let me get this right. You are saying you did this because in some obscure technical sense, you were [I]right? Get out of my sight...

___________________________________
And here's the same scenario for an American liberal on Judgement Day:

[Liberals are considered baddies in the US. They read the Huffington Post rather than Fox News and they oppose the bombing.]

Lord, please forgive me. I didn't realise that gay marriage was such a Hugely Stupendous Crime in your view.

(JC chuckles then becomes serious)

See this child here, paralysed from the neck down and calling for her dead mother... you supported her when everyone else was supporting the bombing.

Did I, Lord? I don't remember...

Well, you wouldn't remember, because you didn't do it to remember. You did it because your (Samaritan) heart was in the right place... Welcome to heaven!

prefect
06-08-2014, 08:38 PM
IMHO the whole sorry mess would have been sorted out decades ago if American Christians actually practised Christianity instead of only pretending to.

The fundamental rule of Christianity is

"being compassionate trumps being right"

In other words, even when you are in the right, the better course of action is to take a hit.

I find it ironic that American Christians are worried about "going to heaven" yet in their actions they seem hell-bent on going the other way.

I picture the following exchange on Judgement Day:

(US Christian): Lord, we opposed gay marriage. Let us into heaven.

(JC): See this child here, paralysed from the neck down and calling for her dead mother, why did you do this to her?

Lord, this child was collateral damage in a just war.

Eh....? Let me get this right. You are saying you did this because in some obscure technical sense, you were [I]right? Get out of my sight...

___________________________________
And here's the same scenario for an American liberal on Judgement Day:

[Liberals are considered baddies in the US. They read the Huffington Post rather than Fox News and they oppose the bombing.]

Lord, please forgive me. I didn't realise that gay marriage was such a Hugely Stupendous Crime in your view.

(JC chuckles then becomes serious)

See this child here, paralysed from the neck down and calling for her dead mother... you supported her when everyone else was supporting the bombing.

Did I, Lord? I don't remember...

Well, you wouldn't remember, because you didn't do it to remember. You did it because your (Samaritan) heart was in the right place... Welcome to heaven!

Absolutely high grade post from a respected member of this forum. Wish there were more people like you around.

pctek
07-08-2014, 07:49 AM
IMHO the whole sorry mess would have been sorted out decades ago if American Christians actually practised Christianity instead of only pretending to.
!

Have you read the instruction manual?? They do.....it's full of instructions on doing nasty things to the "unbelievers" and other people who do shocking things like eating shellfish, wearing clothes of mixed fabrics and living in another location.

1101
07-08-2014, 09:45 AM
If you follow the bible.....
then selling your daughters into slavery is OK
killing the innocent (children) is also OK

But : though shall not kill. Bit of a mixed message ?

rumpty
07-08-2014, 10:00 AM
IMHO the whole sorry mess would have been sorted out decades ago if American Christians actually practised Christianity instead of only pretending to...


Nice one BBCmicro. +1 and all that. And my BBC micro is still in a favoured place in the workshop. Hasn't been turned on for quite a while though.