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Poppa John
08-03-2014, 08:08 PM
Hi all.
As was noted in my "Possible Trojan" tread we appear not to have any AV programm. We do have MSS. We also "clean out" regularly.
XP support will end very soon. Does this mean that MSS upgrades will finish as well?

There have been many requsts on here for "the best" av program. Free & Paid. Withe the demise of XP support, it seems to me that we should now invest in a paid AV. I have tried the trial Nod32 & found it a little intrusive, maybe the paid version is less so.

So which IS the best & for me...the least complicated. Thanks PJ

pcuser42
08-03-2014, 08:13 PM
MSE will continue getting updates but won't be available for new downloads.

But with the end of support looming, now would be a good time to consider upgrading to at least Windows 7. Can't stay in the past ;)

wainuitech
08-03-2014, 08:26 PM
I have tried the trial Nod32 & found it a little intrusive, Can you please explain what is meant by that ?

If you mean Nod32 blocks bad sites and suspect / infected downloads then its doing its job.

ONLY time you should get any sort of pop up is when something nasty or suspect is detected,and a popup that disappears after a few seconds when doing its updates.

Lately seen several computers that have had MSSE totally disabled and destroyed by infections, the post you mentioned relating to Trojans is one ( typical)

Poppa John
08-03-2014, 08:31 PM
Would love to upgrade to W7 or 8. However the PC & this laptop would no handle an OS update. So it would mean new computers. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ this is the problem. Like many other people. PJ

Driftwood
08-03-2014, 08:55 PM
Have you concidered going to Linux.

coldot
08-03-2014, 09:58 PM
What are the specs of your laptop? I've installed Win7 on some older PCs - they work but someimes without some of the bells and whistles. If the laptop is really incapable, how about a second-hand desktop PC? Probably better than trying to resurrect XP.

Agent_24
08-03-2014, 10:21 PM
Windows XP market share GROWS AGAIN, outstrips Win 8.1 surge
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/05/windows_xp_market_share_grows_again/

wainuitech
08-03-2014, 10:31 PM
Interesting figures, heres the punch line -- "It's also clear that come April 9th, those with new ways to attack XP will have plenty of targets"

paulw
09-03-2014, 08:52 AM
There seems to be a lot of FUD being put out there by the news media and people with a vested interest. Lets face it unlike analog TV switch off, Win XP is not going to stop in April. It will go for years and quite safely if you have a good AV package like NOD32 and a Malware scanner say like Malwarebytes Anti-Malware. My wife has a perfectly good laptop running Win XP and there's no way I'm going to spend $1500 to replace it. It may run Win 7 but as it's only got 2Gig of ram and a dual Pentium CPU it may be a bit slow..

rumpty
09-03-2014, 09:39 AM
Poppa John, you have been on the forum for a long time, so you will be pretty much up with the play about what to do and what not to do to avoid infections.

Don't worry about an AV program at all. This computer is running XP, has been for years, no AV, never had an infection as far as I can remember. I think I have my wife trained to be careful on the computer, and usually mention to her about dodgy things on the internet, as they come up. Must admit Ransomware sounded really bad!

What do you reckon Speedy? You are a "no AV" man, aren't you?

I have to admit I have Linux on an older computer, and use that on the web if I want to do something "unusual".

Speedy Gonzales
09-03-2014, 09:45 AM
@paul. The netbook here has only got a 1.66 CPU and 2 GB. It'd be slower than yours (dont think it's dual core). But it runs Win7 fine. It even ran XP mode with no probs at all

wainuitech
09-03-2014, 10:02 AM
Poppa John, you have been on the forum for a long time, so you will be pretty much up with the play about what to do and what not to do to avoid infections.

Don't worry about an AV program at all. This computer is running XP, has been for years, no AV, never had an infection as far as I can remember. I think I have my wife trained to be careful on the computer, and usually mention to her about dodgy things on the internet, as they come up. Must admit Ransomware sounded really bad!

What do you reckon Speedy? You are a "no AV" man, aren't you?

I have to admit I have Linux on an older computer, and use that on the web if I want to do something "unusual". Thats a good laugh for a sunday :)

Please explain then why so many people get their computers infected, and its a safe bet to say at lest 90% of most computer repair work is due to infections or unwanted installs. Your own post contradicts its self by saying the ransom ware sounded really bad, reasonably sure people dont put that stuff on on purpose, and you can get that from anywhere ;)

Theres been plenty of times IE8 which is on XP is to old to work on some sites, and you need either FF or Chrome to use sites.

Speedy Gonzales
09-03-2014, 10:13 AM
Well I dont have any AV programs on these (2 PC's and a netbook). Besides Windows defender. Havent had any since I installed windows (tried MSE, it doubled the boot time, so removed it).

I've never had probs with not having one. Myself I think its a load of crap that you need one. Altho I dont know about NOD, because I've never used it.

But the only way I would pay for one would be if it was a one off payment. I wouldnt waste my money paying for one every 6 mths / yearly or every 2-3 years

dugimodo
09-03-2014, 10:14 AM
However good or Bad MSSE is an AV program so if you have it you do have one. NOD32 is better if you can afford it but not needed.
I think personally if you can make a system image and store it safely there's no real risk.

Speedy Gonzales
09-03-2014, 10:17 AM
If I wanted to use XP on the netbook (if I went backwards from 7 to XP). I would just make an ISO with Nlite or something. Since from April there wont be any more updates. So it wouldnt really matter if it got infected with something. I would just extract the ISO to a USB flash drive, boot from it then reinstall XP. And its up to date

Agent_24
09-03-2014, 10:44 AM
Don't worry about an AV program at all. This computer is running XP, has been for years, no AV, never had an infection as far as I can remember. I think I have my wife trained to be careful on the computer, and usually mention to her about dodgy things on the internet, as they come up. Must admit Ransomware sounded really bad!

I have to admit I have Linux on an older computer, and use that on the web if I want to do something "unusual".

It may surprise you but you don't have to go to 'dodgy' websites, download dodgy email attachments etc, to get malware.
Remember the Blaster worm? You didn't have to download or do anything to get it. You just had to be connected to the internet:

The worm spread by exploiting a buffer overflow discovered by the Polish security research group Last Stage of Delirium[4] in the DCOM RPC service on the affected operating systems, for which a patch had been released one month earlier in MS03-026 and later in MS03-039. This allowed the worm to spread without users opening attachments simply by spamming itself to large numbers of random IP addresses. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_worm)

This is why I do not understand people who don't keep up to date with their Windows updates, and who don't run some kind of AV.


With XP come end of support soon the situation will be worse. There are likely to be new holes found, and Microsoft will not be patching them up. With the large market share that XP still has, and without updates, it will be a very viable platform for malware writers for some time to come.

Now, with the patches stopped, you have to rely solely on your Antivirus, and hope it can detect and stop any Zero-day malware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-day_attack)


Except, you're not running an AV either. All I can say is "Good Luck"

For me, XP will be gone from my main machines, and relegated to offline tasks like running old programs\games etc no longer compatible with Windows 7 and up. Yes I love XP to death, but I'm not about to compromise my system security over the nostalgia.

Poppa John
09-03-2014, 11:08 AM
Can you please explain what is meant by that ?

If you mean Nod32 blocks bad sites and suspect / infected downloads then its doing its job.

ONLY time you should get any sort of pop up is when something nasty or suspect is detected,and a popup that disappears after a few seconds when doing its updates.

Lately seen several computers that have had MSSE totally disabled and destroyed by infections, the post you mentioned relating to Trojans is one ( typical)

Re Nod 32. probably my lack of experience with Nod. There were popups coming often. I have had other AV programmes in the past which were much worse than Nod for asking permissions etc. Still dont know which way to jump. No way is a new computer going to happen. The infected laptop is a Toshiba L10 with 750MB of ram. An earlier thread reply says that 1GB of ram is max for this L10. So regardless of what the Techie did or did not do, I have got a laptop again for $30. PJ

wainuitech
09-03-2014, 11:26 AM
Re Nod 32. probably my lack of experience with Nod. There were popups coming often. In that case itt would have been warning you or detecting problems. Thats the only time you get any sort of poup mesage.

Unless you are talking about Smart security, which has the firewall as well, and thats set to interactive mode ( which is not the default), even then once its been set you wouldn't get popups unless something had changed or was wrong.

Good on ya if they only charged $30, wouldn't be surprised if theres still infections reappear later on, hopefully not, BUT if they do watch out as they may try charge you again. One company in wgtn is good for doing that sort of thing, only does quick scans and then within days the problems back and they want to recharge to fix again, and blame the person for reinfecting.

Example of scaning times: got one going right now, XP, roughly 40GB of space used on drive, Running malwarebytes in FULL scan mode, so far its been going for 1 1/4 hours, it didn't start finding problems until at least 90% of the way through. A quick scan would have missed them.

1101
10-03-2014, 09:40 AM
Many (most ??) XP PC's I see arnt running regular Win updates anyway, so its death date is not a big issue, wont be any different for many PC's .
It IS a good way to sell new PC's , put a bit of fear into the people.
Its just a good Headline for online articles & blogs .

pcuser42
10-03-2014, 09:43 AM
It IS a good way to sell new PC's , put a bit of fear into the people.

It's at least partially justified IMO. I can see hackers finding exploits in XP but not releasing the details immediately, instead waiting until 9 April then letting hell loose.

SP8's
10-03-2014, 11:07 AM
Rumpty ... If you have no AV, how can you say your've never been infected ? Try doing an online scan with ESET NOD32 (free) and SAS (Superantispyware, also free) then post the results here. I would be interested in having a look at them.

1101
10-03-2014, 11:45 AM
It's at least partially justified IMO. I can see hackers finding exploits in XP but not releasing the details immediately, instead waiting until 9 April then letting hell loose.

is that really that much of an issue ?? What percentage of PC's ever got hacked from not being updated?

XP users are often still on old non-updated versions of IE (v6 etc) & many arnt updating anyway, but dont have issues with hackers . Look how many XP pcs still arnt on SP3 . Many XP users arnt even installing the flash, java & Acrobat reader security updates .
More likely would be the usuall virus infections that have allways plagued us, regardless of SP's

Webdevguy
10-03-2014, 12:08 PM
Personally I don't see what the big issue is. XP is a dinosaur that MS is finally laying to rest. It's time to move on people, move on and update.In with the new and out with the old :thumbs:

Agent_24
10-03-2014, 12:26 PM
Personally I don't see what the big issue is. XP is a dinosaur

That may be, but the replacements are so far nothing more than hyperactive baboons.

Webdevguy
10-03-2014, 12:40 PM
That may be, but the replacements are so far nothing more than hyperactive baboons.

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and move with the times. Choose the the best option from what is available and go with it.

For 99% of users out there the 3 options that I have mentioned are perfectly suitable for day to day stuff.

1101
10-03-2014, 01:03 PM
Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and move with the times.

Many small business's simply wont spend money on IT. They just dont want to spend $ on a few new PC's or upgrades .
So they are also still stuck on 15+ year old software , designed for Dos, with no support & may not run on Win7,8 . I have one customer still using a serial network .:horrified
The state of some old business PC's Ive seen is mind boggling , barely useable junk that belongs in the bin ( no exaggeration ) . I dont know how they expect the user to get any work done on the things.

Webdevguy
10-03-2014, 01:10 PM
Many small business's simply wont spend money on IT. They just dont want to spend $ on a few new PC's or upgrades .
So they are also still stuck on 15+ year old software , designed for Dos, with no support & may not run on Win7,8 . I have one customer still using a serial network .:horrified
The state of some old business PC's Ive seen is mind boggling , barely useable junk that belongs in the bin ( no exaggeration ) . I dont know how they expect the user to get any work done on the things.

I've heard of similar situations before. I think that lack of budget is used as an excuse to cover up the stubborneness of not wanting to upgrade on top of fear of IT in general.

Often the outdated computers at work act as a hinderance to staff trying to get work done.

Nomad
10-03-2014, 03:49 PM
With my hobby, some use older OS - the great dedicated film scanners not made today only work with the older OS or if you dual boot or run them via VM. You can go flatbed but a 4MP dSLR gets more details :lol: Or else you pay $100 per individual image to be scanned for you.

But XP works with the most of the modern stuff for "people". They do gigabit, multicore CPUs .... I'm still on that boat some who just use it for FB or check their Gmail why buy a new computer or update Windows on a aging system. But yeah .. if the business is a small owner operated motel or just to go on FB, emails, do the supermarket shopping online and the family budget. What's the point in upgrading that ...

gary67
10-03-2014, 06:59 PM
I'm not upgrading the PC that runs my 3D printer, its a pain to set up the software and it only needs the min of resources and is only used for that so XP is fine until the PC dies