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Poppa John
30-10-2013, 04:18 PM
Hi All.

Is it possible to delete the OS from one of these & replace it with W7 or W8? Thanks. PJ

Webdevguy
30-10-2013, 04:21 PM
It might be if you were a super guru tech person, but if you were you wouldn't be asking how to do it,so the answer is.. Nope, you can't.

Besides, Android is specifically designed to run on tablets.. Windows in all its flavours.... not so much.

wainuitech
30-10-2013, 04:24 PM
NOPE ---Wrong architecture

Webdevguy
30-10-2013, 04:26 PM
Windows RT and its other cousin also take up about half of the storage space on Windows tablets, which kinda defeats the purpose of having a fully capable but lightweight efficient OS running on your tablet with optimised storage.

Poppa John
30-10-2013, 04:32 PM
Ok Thanks. PJ

1101
31-10-2013, 07:50 AM
You can buy tablets with Win RT. There may be a reasosn no one wants them .
Win RT is NOT the same as windows, it wont even run Windows programs , needs a special version of you fav Win programs programs (correct me if Im wrong)
This was partly the problem, end users wouldnt understand the difference between WinRT & 'normal' Windows8
Tablets with 'normal' Win are also available, but they are really just a laptop with a touchscreen. Often Not cheap either

But yes, Samsung WinRT tablets WERE available, may still be. Doesnt mean they are worth having. ;)
http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/04/samsung-ativ-tab-review/

FYI, this looks interesting
next-gen-samsung-galaxy-tab-could-dual-boot-windows-rt
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-57606519-251/next-gen-samsung-galaxy-tab-could-dual-boot-windows-rt/

Speedy Gonzales
31-10-2013, 08:48 AM
Looks like people have managed to put XP on something with Android on it. On YouTube

But with a link / icon on the main screen. They didnt wipe what was on it. But it was so slow it took like 5-10 mins to boot into XP, and 5-10 mins for the menu to appear. But it didnt have anyway of getting online. And it didn't have sound

Webdevguy
31-10-2013, 08:56 AM
You certainly can buy tablets with Win RT, and the apps that run on them from the Windows App Market Place.. or Windows Store or what ever its called. But judging by the zero interest expressed in Windows Tablets by the general public - Its only schools that are being given them for FREE from Microsoft in order to gain market share by MS that are grabbing them, I'd suggest going with a Galaxy Tablet if you are not a fan of iDevices.

Now baring in mind that the Windows OS has been forcibly shoe horned to fit into a Windows Tablet as opposed to re written from the ground up and therefore optimised to run in a low power environment, I'd suggest avoiding it. After all there are plenty of better choices in the Android/Galaxy Nexus or iPad space.

Chilling_Silence
31-10-2013, 10:46 PM
You certainly can buy tablets with Win RT, and the apps that run on them from the Windows App Market Place.. or Windows Store or what ever its called.
And those apps are specifically written for Win RT, they're not compatible. It's x86 vs ARM architecture, the CPU's just aren't compatible.

nmercer
31-10-2013, 11:59 PM
You certainly can buy tablets with Win RT, and the apps that run on them from the Windows App Market Place.. or Windows Store or what ever its called. But judging by the zero interest expressed in Windows Tablets by the general public - Its only schools that are being given them for FREE from Microsoft in order to gain market share by MS that are grabbing them, I'd suggest going with a Galaxy Tablet if you are not a fan of iDevices.

Now baring in mind that the Windows OS has been forcibly shoe horned to fit into a Windows Tablet as opposed to re written from the ground up and therefore optimised to run in a low power environment, I'd suggest avoiding it. After all there are plenty of better choices in the Android/Galaxy Nexus or iPad space.

Schools are purchasing Surface (http://www.surface.com)tablets running Windows RT, and the schools that I've seen like to have another choice now rather that just iPad and Android devices

Parents I talk to don't like being told by schools that 8 year little Jonny needs to have at least an iPad 3 for school, else "he'll be left behind"

Sure they don't run desktop Windows apps, just like Android and iPad don't run Windows desktop apps. They run Windows Store apps. But I think they are the most productive tablets on earth, you can do real work on these things, they come with Office 2013 including Word, Excel, OneNote and Outlook. You can create content as well as consume it.

Windows RT has been designed from the ground up to go on low power long life tablets with ARM chips. But its not a toy mobile operating system OS, its not just a big phone. I can be productive, I can plug into external monitors and extend my desktop. They have real full size USB ports, they have microSD ports, they have a kick stand builtin. They properly multitask, so I can run apps side by side and be productive. They have the best email client and web browser on any Tablet I have ever used, they support flash, IE11 actually works beautifully fast and fluid with touch on Surface and I enjoy browsing on my Surface much more than my iPad or Google Nexus tablet. I can do things that are pretty hard on other tablets, like printing, like plugging in a mouse and keyboard, like connecting up to network file shares on my home or school/work network.

And with Surface 2 at $649 I think they are great value with a FHD 1080P screen, and 200GB of SkyDrive cloud storage included for 2 years, and 1 year of unlimited Skype calling to 60 countries around the world.

Its good to have choice.

linw
01-11-2013, 07:19 AM
Sounds good, nmercer. You make a good point re choice.

Webdevguy
01-11-2013, 07:53 AM
Yes choice is a good thing :), although with several models of iPad available and numerous models of fully customisable Android tablets, all of which cater for various forms of additional storage, one would figure there was a fair amount of choice already available on the market..?

As for productivity apps, although I don't own or use an Android tablet I'm pretty sure that users of them have no problems with being productive :) The iPad has its own set of productivity apps as well.

As for upgrading your device annually, I have a feeling that irrespective of which one we own, we will be "encouraged" to go out and buy the next improved version of it in 12 months time.. ;)

Cheers :)

linw
01-11-2013, 02:18 PM
Yep, they don't want us to keep the tabs and phones too long!!

Webdevguy
01-11-2013, 03:13 PM
Well of course not they don't and if you look at most teens and twenty somethings today, they will often buy the newer cooler model as soon as it comes out just so that they can be the coolest kid on the block for 5 mins :)

Chilling_Silence
01-11-2013, 05:39 PM
Not quite. For me it's about having disposable income and wanting something better, a fancier camera for example is what I'm hanging out for on a phone.

Also, Transformer Tablet, had all that he mentioned like USB, SD Card support, keyboard, mouse, bluetooth support, printing, browsing network shares, multitasking etc.... that came out what? 2+ years ago? Where's this "toy OS" you speak of?

Then the Transformer Pad Infinity also had a higher than Full-HD screen if that's your thing.
The "choice" has always been there, it's literally just "one more" in the market of dozens that'll fill that criteria.

Antmannz
02-11-2013, 11:07 AM
Just in case no one here is aware: Nathan Mercer, Technical Specialist, Microsoft NZ (http://www.microsoft.com/nz/techdays/speakers_nmercer.aspx)

Webdevguy
02-11-2013, 11:18 AM
Just in case no one here is aware: Nathan Mercer, Technical Specialist, Microsoft NZ (http://www.microsoft.com/nz/techdays/speakers_nmercer.aspx)

Thanks for that ;) That would also explain some of the comments he made regarding certain productivity apps on the Windows tablet where it "sounded like" the Windows tablet was the ONLY tablet that allowed the user to be productive... hmm not so much...

wainuitech
02-11-2013, 11:30 AM
Thanks for that ;) That would also explain some of the comments he made regarding certain productivity apps on the Windows tablet where it "sounded like" the Windows tablet was the ONLY tablet that allowed the user to be productive... hmm not so much... Yep Nathan works for Microsoft, but at least His comments are actual facts, not like some who only go by reviews, or have never actually handled what ever the software is , only read about it or has a mate who knows all and are suddenly experts. ;)

Webdevguy
02-11-2013, 12:10 PM
Yep Nathan works for Microsoft, but at least His comments are actual facts, not like some who only go by reviews, or have never actually handled what ever the software is , only read about it or has a mate who knows all and are suddenly experts. ;)

From a web designers point of view, I go for platforms that have either the most market share, or cater for users who spend the most money online - the first being Android users and the 2nd being iDevice users. Anything after that is purely optional. :)

nmercer
02-11-2013, 12:27 PM
Thanks for that ;) That would also explain some of the comments he made regarding certain productivity apps on the Windows tablet where it "sounded like" the Windows tablet was the ONLY tablet that allowed the user to be productive... hmm not so much...

I'd also point out I use an iPad, various Android Tablets and a Surface every day and I know which one I am able to be most productive on. Now sure I'm coming at it from a business point of view with my Surface - multitasking, side by side apps, a file system to copy files, the best remote desktop client, VPN support, a proper web browser than can use Flash if I need to, a USB port that supports a wide range of peripherals incl printers, a command line for when you need it, multi monitor etc

We all have our own definitions of productivity. Its easy to create a Tablet for amusing yourself with, watching videos, playing Angrybirds etc. I think its another story having a Tablet that actually crosses across being both a consumption and creation device and lets you do real work.... YMMV

nmercer
02-11-2013, 12:28 PM
From a web designers point of view, I go for platforms that have either the most market share, or cater for users who spend the most money online - the first being Android users and the 2nd being iDevice users. Anything after that is purely optional. :)

aren't you targeting browsers rather than platforms? Are you writing native apps too?

nmercer
02-11-2013, 12:30 PM
Not quite. For me it's about having disposable income and wanting something better, a fancier camera for example is what I'm hanging out for on a phone.

Also, Transformer Tablet, had all that he mentioned like USB, SD Card support, keyboard, mouse, bluetooth support, printing, browsing network shares, multitasking etc.... that came out what? 2+ years ago? Where's this "toy OS" you speak of?

Then the Transformer Pad Infinity also had a higher than Full-HD screen if that's your thing.
The "choice" has always been there, it's literally just "one more" in the market of dozens that'll fill that criteria.

in particular I'd say the toy OS is the one that is a big phone that all the sheep are using

wainuitech
02-11-2013, 01:28 PM
I'd also point out I use an iPad, various Android Tablets and a Surface every day and I know which one I am able to be most productive on. Now sure I'm coming at it from a business point of view with my Surface - multitasking, side by side apps, a file system to copy files, the best remote desktop client, VPN support, a proper web browser than can use Flash if I need to, a USB port that supports a wide range of peripherals incl printers, a command line for when you need it, multi monitor etc

We all have our own definitions of productivity. Its easy to create a Tablet for amusing yourself with, watching videos, playing Angrybirds etc. I think its another story having a Tablet that actually crosses across being both a consumption and creation device and lets you do real work.... YMMV :thumbs: Thats got to be one of the best comeback answers I've seen in a while. :D

And its true -- A lot of people use popular tablets ( Androids / ipads) for "playing or basic functions" try to do any real work and they use either a Desktop PC or laptop.

Chilling_Silence
02-11-2013, 04:00 PM
So why then are so many businesses still opting for iPads if the Windows RT is so superior for "getting work done"?

plod
02-11-2013, 04:10 PM
So why then are so many businesses still opting for iPads if the Windows RT is so superior for "getting work done"?

Please don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. I remember when the iPad came out, it was totally misjudged by majority here. All opting for their almighty netbooks, pretty sure you can't buy a netbook anymore. Surface and rt tablets in general master nothing and a compromise at most things.

Webdevguy
02-11-2013, 04:20 PM
:thumbs: Thats got to be one of the best comeback answers I've seen in a while. :D

And its true -- A lot of people use popular tablets ( Androids / ipads) for "playing or basic functions" try to do any real work and they use either a Desktop PC or laptop.
I think that when you give part of the IT decision making process to your employees and let them decide what device they want to use at work, I'd have to say that you will get a swing away from Windows.

Webdevguy
02-11-2013, 04:36 PM
Please don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. I remember when the iPad came out, it was totally misjudged by majority here. All opting for their almighty netbooks, pretty sure you can't buy a netbook anymore. Surface and rt tablets in general master nothing and a compromise at most things.
Good answer :)

Webdevguy
02-11-2013, 04:47 PM
aren't you targeting browsers rather than platforms? Are you writing native apps too?
I target browser based on device for responsive websites so we tend to build the site then upload to our remote server so that we can build and test on various devices as we go. As stated before, the testing preference is for iPhone/Android based on market share and highest amount of online purchases spent using a device range. We usually test on IE last due to a much smaller market share of mobile Windows device users.
I don't write native apps yet. Although I would say that corporate app building preference tends to gravitate towards the iPhone first, then Android... Then what ever comes next.

wainuitech
02-11-2013, 05:01 PM
I think that when you give part of the IT decision making process to your employees and let them decide what device they want to use at work, I'd have to say that you will get a swing away from Windows. Any business that does that is asking for trouble. Some employees want the shiny toys that wont do what the company actually wants. So going by your theory the staff get the shiny toys because they look good, dont care about the cost, work cant be done-- Yeah real bright.

The ipads are a "halo" style effect, theres plenty of things they cant do, in fact one of my customers they were looking at getting tablets for the kids at their school ( over 200 of them) , they looked at the ipads and compared to the Androids at the time, Android won hands down as ipads couldn't do half the tasks. Some web sites dont work or display correctly on ipads where they do on Androids or Windows or Linux.

I know many places that the staff have ipads, but when they want to do some real work they use either laptops or Desktop PC's of either windows or MAC's, the ipads simply cant do the work.

I had Yellow pages here the other day sorting out some advertising, she tried to show me a couple of sites, some looked weird, so I opened the Android, and they looked as they were meant. Now you may say the sites not designed for ipads, well sorry but the ipad is NOT the be all to end all.

In bold in the quote -- care to provide some actual proof, or is it another one of these thats what I think comments ?

Chilling_Silence
02-11-2013, 06:19 PM
Yeah when I worked at Ricoh it was like that. Even first gen Android tablets beat out the iPad when we did objective independent tests in the IT team between like 7 different tablets...

They still went out and purchased over a hundred iPads :-/

Webdevguy
02-11-2013, 06:20 PM
Agreed that some sites don't work well with iPads/android tablets. They are more likely to be older sites that were not designed to be responsive. I've encountered heaps of them in my research. As to tablets not being suited to all computing work, that's correct. They were never designed to handle everything although what they were designed for they do very well:)

There can also be some variation in the way IPads and some android devices handle some animated features on html5 sites due to the way they process the jquery libraries.

wainuitech
02-11-2013, 08:03 PM
They were never designed to handle everything although what they were designed for they do very well Thats very true.

What Microsoft is attempting to do is have a variety of products, all using the same OS, all able to do the same thing no matter where they are, at a office desk, at a cafe or some other location.

If you think about it, thats what Windows 8 is, the same OS and programs on a Desktop PC, Laptop or Tablet. (They openly have stated that numerous times) The exception there is the Windows 8 Tablets and Windows RT. Spose there has to be "the poor cousin" somewhere (RT)

At the moment no one is actually doing that. Sure Apple have MAC's with iOS, iphones and ipads, but they all work differently, the ipad and iphone are about as close to one another as it gets.

Webdevguy
02-11-2013, 08:48 PM
Very true although Microsoft currently has a few handicaps, they were very late to a fast moving game, and mating hardware to software and being profitable right off the block on a relatively level playing field is not something they excel at.

I would say that the Android market would have to collapse in order for MS to succeed into 2nd place. Of course anything is possible :)

The iPhone and iPad OS was essentially redesigned as a standalone system that connects to the Mac OS.

Nerdtastic
03-11-2013, 11:10 AM
Isn't this the end goal for Microsoft and Apple?

To have a universal OS for all devices with all (or most) of the storage in the cloud.
Mavericks and Win8 both show the trend. In the end tablets will be the new laptops.

I'll still own a desktop though :)

Webdevguy
03-11-2013, 11:40 AM
[QUOTE=Nerdtastic;1180382]Isn't this the end goal for Microsoft and Apple?

To have a universal OS for all devices with all (or most) of the storage in the cloud.
Mavericks and Win8 both show the trend. In the end tablets will be the new laptops.

I'll still own a desktop though :)[
Yes I would say that would be a fairly common goal for both companies. I still own and work off my desktop computer. I use my partners laptop when I need to be mobile and I regularly use my iPhone and our iPad for testing websites that I'm building.

Webdevguy
03-11-2013, 04:24 PM
in particular I'd say the toy OS is the one that is a big phone that all the sheep are using
Here's some "sheep" aka a lot of tradespeople doing some real work on the run - (also known as running their small businesses, invoicing clients and booking and recording jobs etc) from the new app GeoOp. Not sure if its out on Android yet but its certainly out on iPhone.

http://www.3news.co.nz/GeoOp-app-for-tradies-eyes-global-market/tabid/421/articleID/319513/Default.aspx#.UnXP2ZR83O8

wainuitech
03-11-2013, 05:18 PM
Here's some "sheep" aka a lot of tradespeople doing some real work on the run - (also known as running their small businesses, invoicing clients and booking and recording jobs etc) from the new app GeoOp. Not sure if its out on Android yet but its certainly out on iPhone.

http://www.3news.co.nz/GeoOp-app-for-tradies-eyes-global-market/tabid/421/articleID/319513/Default.aspx#.UnXP2ZR83O8 Well the video was a waste of time. Its nothing that Microsoft ,Apple & google aren't already doing, and capable of doing with programs already in place and working.

Webdevguy
03-11-2013, 06:19 PM
Well the video was a waste of time. Its nothing that Microsoft ,Apple & google aren't already doing, and capable of doing with programs already in place and working.

True although not sure how many of those programs that are already in place have been customised specifically for ease of use on a smart phone.

gary67
03-11-2013, 06:59 PM
We have Win 8.1 at work and also a Samsung tablet/laptop similar to the Asus prime (detachable keyboard) running Win 8 as well and it actually works very well. We use it when meeting clients to discuss their kitchens so we can record what they want in our database

Webdevguy
04-11-2013, 08:18 AM
We have Win 8.1 at work and also a Samsung tablet/laptop similar to the Asus prime (detachable keyboard) running Win 8 as well and it actually works very well. We use it when meeting clients to discuss their kitchens so we can record what they want in our database

Sounds like a good way to do things from a "show new design options perspective". Do you use it for invoicing and job tracking as well or is that done separately?