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Ninjabear
21-06-2013, 11:01 PM
Hi

I have a GTX 580 1.5GB Graphics Card.

What would the next upgrade be at around $500-$650 for a new graphics card?

My friend suggested Ati 7870 but I kinda like Geforce cards.

What are your recommendation?

Does more Ram in a graphics card offer better quality and performance?

inphinity
21-06-2013, 11:42 PM
A 7870 is really a sidegrade from a GTX580, there isn't a huge difference. Really, the 580 is still a solid card, and you'd have to look to at least a GTX770 to justify upgrading imo, which may be a little beyond your budget at this stage. You might be able to get a 7970 in that price range, if you were willing to move to AMD, though again I don't see the need.

Chilling_Silence
22-06-2013, 03:20 AM
Yeah that pretty much sums it up, 7970 is about your only "upgrade" at the moment... Though you could argue you can sell your current card later, so splurge out a little more now? :D

dugimodo
22-06-2013, 08:31 PM
As coincidence would have it I just "upgraded" from a GTX 580 to a 7970. Don't do it. You can't tell the difference and WoW runs worse.
Only option around that price is either the 7970 or the GTX670 - neither of which is enough better to worry about. wait 6 months for the 7 series cards to come down in price and wait for a 770 to fit into your budget.

Incidentally a 770 is a renamed 680 with higher clock speeds and a 780 is a slightly crippled Titan, interesting games they play with graphics card names. Or do what I should have done and just keep using it until it can't handle new games.

Mirddes
27-06-2013, 01:23 PM
always laugh when people are asking what to ultra highend card they should upgrade to from their still highend card.

WAIT A YEAR OR 2

or build new computer every year.

pablo d
27-06-2013, 02:35 PM
Got an SLI mobo? Buy another 580.

Chilling_Silence
27-06-2013, 03:05 PM
WAIT A YEAR OR 2

or build new computer every year.

Why? I want better performance on newer games now, why wait?

And why rebuild every year, that's a total waste considering I've had my last PC for 3 years and have only just outgrown what was already an old CPU at the time...

dugimodo
27-06-2013, 04:55 PM
I typically build a new machine well before I need to, building them and getting them running is my hobby as much as using them is and I always want to build another one. I could go back several machines and still be playing all the current games with just a graphics card update.

I just sold my i5 with GTX 580 and built an i7 with a 7970, no real difference in performance honestly but I enjoyed doing it. Also I wanted to move from a full tower to an itx machine for portability :). I am regretting the graphics card choice though, wishing I'd gotten a 670 or waited for a 7 series card. WoW honestly does play worse on the 7970 than it did on the 580.

Ive gone through in the last few years;
AMD x2 4200 (prob quite a while ago now)
Core 2 Duo E6750
Core 2 quad Q9300
Core i7 920 (I should still be using this one)
Core i5 2500K (or at the very least this one)
Core i5 3570K
Core i7 3770 (abandoning oveclocking as unecessary)

And on the Graphics front during that time;
HD 4850 (Great card lasted me a long time)
GTX 260
GTX 460 x 2 in SLI
GTX 580 - to replace the SLI rig that was never very sucessful
HD 7970 - just because of the price and because the 3 slot GTX 580 wouldn't fit in the itx case.

And that's not counting all the secondary machines and media PCs I've played with, like my current phenom II x3 rig I use for general purpose stuff so as to not clutter up the gaming rig.

Chilling_Silence
27-06-2013, 05:09 PM
Yeah likewise!

I unfortunately have two spare gaming PC's gathering dust because we've had somebody move in with my wife and I, I've lost the 3rd room, so we only have the one room for a computer room now and no more space for the spares to be setup and operating :(

Ninjabear
27-06-2013, 10:04 PM
About upgrading PC

If I were to move my current PC to a water cooling one.
Would it be expensive?

pctek
28-06-2013, 07:23 AM
Toms Hardware has GPU performance reviews, if you want to see what's good, bad or average..

THis one is quite good for a comparison of the rankings:


GTX 690 Radeon HD 7990

GTX 590 HD 6990, 7970 GHz Ed.
GTX 680 HD 7970
GTX 670 HD 5970, 7870 LE , 7950
GTX 580, 660, 660 Ti HD 7870
GTX 295, 480, 570, 650 Ti Boost HD 4870 X2, 6970, 7850

GTX 470, 560 Ti, 560 Ti 448 Core HD 4850 X2, 5870, 6950

GTX 560, 650 Ti HD 5850, 6870, 7790

9800 GX2, 285, 460 256-bit, 465 HD 6850, 7770

GTX 260, 275, 280, 460 192-bit, 460 SE, 550 Ti, 560 SE, 650 HD 4870, 5770, 4890, 5830, 6770, 6790, 7750

8800 Ultra, 9800 GTX, 9800 GTX+, GTS 250, GTS 450 HD 3870 X2, 4850, 5750, 6750

8800 GTX, 8800 GTS 512 MB, GT 545 (GDDR5) HD 4770

8800 GT 512 MB, 9800 GT, GT 545 (DDR3), GT 640 (DDR3) HD 4830, HD 5670, HD 6670 (GDDR5)


As you see, sometimes last years card is fine.....if you are going to upgrade, well, sometimes, just cause it's the newest, doesn't mean better....

Mirddes
01-07-2013, 10:33 PM
for most people twice as good for less than $100 is good enough. even with the cost of selling existing hardware included.

SolMiester
02-07-2013, 11:24 AM
I think the 760 would be a nice upgrade, especially if you go 4Gb model, what resolution are you using?.....Had to LOL with Dugimo going from NV to AMD.....

pablo d
02-07-2013, 11:32 AM
I think the 760 would be a nice upgrade, especially if you go 4Gb model, what resolution are you using?.....Had to LOL with Dugimo going from NV to AMD.....

The 760 would be a terrible upgrade, less power, heat and noise maybe, but only ~5% better performance. It's pretty much a rebadged 670.

And why lol at going to AMD? The 7970 is a fantastic card. Better than the GTX 760 even. Fanboi much?

Chilling_Silence
02-07-2013, 04:08 PM
I love my 7970 :D

Saw the reviews for 7990 in the latest PCW... Drooled all over those pages!

dugimodo
02-07-2013, 04:12 PM
Well I let the price and benchmarks of the 7970 convince me mainly because I missed a special on the 670 I planned to buy but it's not proving the best of decisions. On some games the 7970 is fantastic, but I game at 1080P and the 580 was just as good as far as I could tell. The 7970 however has noticeably lower performance in world of warcraft which is still the game I play the most.

Also Crysis 3 kept crashing out of the opening scenes until I set the graphics card to stock clocks (had tried a small OC) and reduced some quality settings - it now plays and looks fantastic but the 580 handled higher settings smoothly and without crashing . For Crysis 3 it's mainly an academic thing as I have no complaints about how the game is running now, but it's another irritation knowing it's set lower than my "old" card.

The 7970 is doing the job, everything is playable and it fit's into the itx case that the 580 wouldn't, but I really regret not getting the 670 when it was on special (and has been again since) as it worked out $50 cheaper and would almost certainly not have had these issues.

I try not to become a "fanboy" and over the years have built many machines based on both ATI/AMD & Nvidia hardware with AMD & intel CPUs, picking whichever is currently offering the best performance at my price point (which has climbed a bit towards the high end over recent years I used to use midrange hardware once).
In my experince though AMD graphics cards need a few months from release for driver issues to be sorted out and more games favour Nvidia than AMD in general. So currenlt I recommend Nvidia graphics and intel CPU's because from my personal experience in gaming they work better most of the time. I dunno why the issues with the 7970 though, it's not that new of a model.

SolMiester
02-07-2013, 04:27 PM
The 760 would be a terrible upgrade, less power, heat and noise maybe, but only ~5% better performance. It's pretty much a rebadged 670.

And why lol at going to AMD? The 7970 is a fantastic card. Better than the GTX 760 even. Fanboi much?

Yes, I am a fanboy Pablo, since my 1st GPU back in 1992 when I purchased my diamond virge S3 2MB card.....Yes the 760 is only 5-10% faster, But it has 2GB of RAM which is all the OP needs at 1080p...The 760 is nothing like a rebadged 670, you are getting confused with AMD 7xxx rebadged for OEMs as 8xxx...The 7970 is a fantastic card if you dont have the reference cooler and dont mind wasting half your gaming time installing the latests drivers to work with your game. I have used 2 ATI\AMD cards in my life and the only time I touch them now is with other persons PCs....AMD may make great hardware, however their software team is very much second fiddle to NV. ****, 18mths and they STILL havnt fixed their stuttering CF issues!..Hence my LOL at Dugimo!

pablo d
02-07-2013, 07:47 PM
Same architecture, slightly less cores, slightly higher clock speed. I think "pretty much a rebadge" covers it accurately.

osbornezo
02-07-2013, 10:29 PM
About upgrading PC

If I were to move my current PC to a water cooling one.
Would it be expensive?

It is expensive if you do it custom but you can buy a cpu watercooler for about $200. If that is what you mean by your question

SolMiester
03-07-2013, 09:18 AM
Same architecture, slightly less cores, slightly higher clock speed. I think "pretty much a rebadge" covers it accurately.

Eh, course its the same architecture, its respined silcon!....rebadges dont upgrade components, this also has boost 2.0, same as Titan, and 780!

pablo d
03-07-2013, 11:21 AM
Call me old fashioned but I don't think anything less than new/significantly improved microarchitecture or a shift to a smaller process node justifies launching a new generation.

pablo d
03-07-2013, 11:38 AM
I also think people overstate the "Driver problems" that AMD has. Nvidia is obviously superior in this department but honestly, it's such a non-issue most of the time.

Source: proud owner of (Nvidia) Riva TNT2 M64, MX440, FX5200, 6800GS, 7800GS, 8800GTS, 9600GT, GTX 660 Ti, GTX 680 and (ATI/AMD) 9600 Pro, 9800 Pro, HD2900 Pro, HD3850 CF, HD3870 CF, HD4770 CF, HD4850 CF, HD4870 CF, HD4890, HD5850 CF, HD6850 CF, HD6870, HD7850 CF, plus a few others I've probably forgot about, and not including the dozens and dozens of models I haven't personally owned but tested for various publications over the years.

SolMiester
03-07-2013, 01:48 PM
Call me old fashioned but I don't think anything less than new/significantly improved microarchitecture or a shift to a smaller process node justifies launching a new generation.

Well, it doesn't really matter what you deem a worthy new generation, as for the driver issues, i cant believe you are serious, launch drivers was the only driver to use for 7xxx if you wanted CF and eyefinity, they only just fixed microstutter on single 7970 6mths ago and have yet to fix CF MS....Not to mention, while one driver works for game A, its broke next driver release....
If you are a PC enthusiast, then you might enjoy spending 50% of your gaming time getting the right driver combo, but not for me. AMD drivers were getting better, the 6xxx proved that, however they went backwards with the 7xxx IMHO!

pablo d
03-07-2013, 01:53 PM
I guess if you predominantly play the games that have the most serious driver issues then yeah the situation probably seems far worse. I'm just saying I haven't personally been affected by it that much. Just my 2c :)

dugimodo
04-07-2013, 01:00 PM
I've only owned 2 AMD graphics cards (not counting very old cards I've forgotten the names of), the HD 7970 I currently have and a HD 4850 which I used for a long time. It's a small sample set, but both have had driver issues or issues with particular games when I got them. In contrast I don't remember any similar issues with all the Nvidia cards I've had and there's a lot of them.

My HD 4850 proved to be one of the best cards I've ever had. It lasted for a couple years of very good performance at a very good price but for the first 3 months I owned it I had to put up with weird graphical glitches in several games. Eventually a driver update fixed that. It still will play most modern games at medium settings even now (I'm not using it but I still have it available to test with).

Similarly the 7970 is a great card, plays far cry 3 at maxed out 1080P settings and Crysis 3 & WoW at near to max settings but of those 3 games I have so far tried on it it has issues with 2 of them - not a great start. WoW has lower framerates than a GTX 580 and drops to almost unplayable levels occassionally in raid type situations (doesn't happen on the 580 - even at maxed out settings) and crysis 3 crashes if I leave it at it's default detected settings. I don't think saying AMD have driver issues is unjustified. It could well be that I just happened to pick 2 games with issues out of the hundreds that possibly don't, but feedback on the net would indicate otherwise.

Anyway the main point is at a $600 budget there is no currently worthwhile upgrade available from either Nvidia or AMD from a GTX 580, remembering these were $800-$900+ cards a couple years back and occupied the space occupied subsequently covered by a GTX 680 until the recent relase of the 780. A GTX 670 is an upgrade, but not a huge one, the 7970 is a little faster again but costs slightly more also. Neither would do more than enable an occasional game to play at slightly higher graphics settings. So back to my original statement, wait until a GTX 770 or better is affordable.

Some people are not receptive to using WoW as a measure of a cards perfomance due to it's age and perceived low requirements (not true at all). But consider this, it's a 7 year old game with still more than 10 million subscribers - any graphics card manufacturer that doesn't test with it is ignoring a large portion of the gaming community.
Also despite numerous opinions to the contrary, WoW on ultra is unplayable on anything other than a fairly high end graphics card and reasonably fast procesor. A 650Ti Boost can handle it on high quite well, for ultra you need a 660Ti or better.