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The Error Guy
10-04-2013, 09:43 PM
Got a Macbook Pro here, recently put a new HDD in it and installed Lion, say two months ago. Been running fine ever since but now It won't boot, just shows a grey folder with a ? mark. Opened up disk utility via internet recovery and noticed the HDD wasn't showing, HDD spins up ok, just not detected.

Unplugged HDD and checked it in windows, SMART shows all good (as expected for a 2 month old HDD) and I can read from it ok. Put it back in and this time disk utility sees it. Great, fix permissions + verify just to be sure. All good. Reboot and everything fine. Put it to sleep (shut lid to put screws in) but when I open it up again it freezes with a "coloured wheel of death" :D reboot and same problem. Fiddle around and it boots ok, restart and still ok. Shut lid to put screws in and the same problem!

3rd time same process, if it works I can use it absolutely fine, all apps go great and the OS is responsive. Reboot several times it's fine. But as soon as it's put to sleep + the screws go in you're f****

Now I'm assuming it's sleep that does it, but it *might* be the screws. I was hoping someone might be able to shed light on this so I don't keep screwing around (pun intended) here. This will be the 4th time I have un done every blasted screw in the ruddy thing :P


Cheers,

TEG

plod
10-04-2013, 09:49 PM
http://support.apple.com/kb/ts144
Something to try

The Error Guy
10-04-2013, 09:54 PM
Getting a 404 ... HDD not found? :D assuming you meant KB TS1440? --> http://support.apple.com/kb/ts1440

Might add, the MBP only seems to find the HDD after It gets booted into recovery. So far no amount of re plugging has fixed it. Annoying because it has to re download every time I use it, takes 15 mins on our connection.

The Error Guy
10-04-2013, 10:12 PM
Great, so I get into recover/disk utility but it's not showing up again :grr:

Seems like hardware (controller?) issue

is this something for Apple Care? HDD is fine, SMART perfect and it shows up fine in windows evey time, or is it possible that this is some sort of software mixup (somehow?)

plod
10-04-2013, 10:13 PM
Why are you renown loading it?

The Error Guy
10-04-2013, 10:29 PM
Why are you renown loading it?

Sorry, don't quite follow that?

Update so far:

I'm guessing it's a faulty HDD cable or a bad/dying SATA controller on the mobo, boots fine from an external drive caddy. Device manager doesn't show any ATA/SCSI/SATA devices either - I guess that means they're dead/not detected (I'm not sure what's normal for a MBP to show there though)

I'll reset the PRAM and SMC as well as re apply any firmware updates for the system (SMC, BIOS/EFI etc) if that doesn't work off it goes to yoobee, although I don't think they'll take it. It got dropped once (which is why the HDD was replaced) and there are dents on the corners.

Other than yoobee are there any decent Apple repair centers in Wellington worth their salt? I know there's DSE but they will ship it out to god knows where and they're a bunch of muppets in store anyway.

I don't think much of yoobee after their feedback on the last MBP I gave them. When I handed over the MBP I also spoke directly to one of their "genies" and gave him list of things that were wrong and what I had done (I knew the HDD was bad, and had installed OSX on a new HDD to test to see if it was a bad install or a deeper problem - the problem persisted so it's a hardware fault) they give it back a week later saying "it's been dropped and the HDD is bad - you owe us $160" well no bloody sh*t Sherlock, I TOLD you that. Turned out to be a bad connection where the power connects to the mobo. So yeah, yoobee doesn't rank highly with me at the moment.

icow
10-04-2013, 11:14 PM
https://locate.apple.com/nz/en/service/?pt=4&lat=-41.2864603&lon=174.77623600000004

Iantech
10-04-2013, 11:17 PM
Sadly, any interaction with yoobee I have had in Chch has been exactly the same as your experience. I keep on getting told from Mac users and resellers that Macs never have problems so the problem you are describing cant exsist. Now of course we both know that there is about as much truth in that as there is in that Macs never get viruses ah. It sounds a bit like there isnt enough power getting to the HDD. It reminds me of those earlier external USB HDDs that required 2 USB connections for them to work properly, if you plugged just 1 USB in (either one), often it would spin up but still not communicate until the remaining one was plugged in. If you feel it is related to the screws, could it be possible one of them has a short preventing enough power going to where its needed? Failing that, I would think it is a mummyboard (or Logic Board as Mac prefer to call it) error resulting in the same result - not supplying enough power to the HDD.
Just my thoughts on what you have described.

wainuitech
10-04-2013, 11:32 PM
Since MAC's don't break :rolleyes: You must have the 1 in a million that does ;)

Anyways -- from past experience from Icows link, I have delta with Connect NZ relating to other name brand windows Computers that were warranty jobs, they weren't to bad. No Idea about MAC's though.

I have had quite a few calls from people asking about fixing MAC's that have obvious hardware problems, and some repair places (non Mac service recognised agents) have been less than "polite", some taking months ( yes months) to get the computer back to the owner.

Being a MAC, don't expect it to be cheap to repair. Several people I have spoken to say its almost cheaper to buy a new one esp if its a motherboard problem.

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 08:21 AM
I'll take it to yoobee simply because it's close, if they dick me around again I'll not be happy though. After charging me $160 just to tell me what I all ready knew they wanted $180 to attempt to take the data off the drive and a further $180-200 to install a new HDD.

$83 for the new HDD and an overnight copy of the data with some nice OSx based recovery software and done. For any poor "normal" person that would have been nearly $500 to replace a HDD and that STILL wouldn't have fixed the problem!

Anyway - as from last night, still can't get the on board SATA to work, I don't think its screws, just coincidental. When it works from boot it's ok, and when it sleeps I'm guessing it must be the sleep/wake trigger that causes the SATA controller to bugger off, hence the HDD can't be found and the OS sticks up the coloured wheel. It boots totally fine, sleep/wake and all the bells and whistles from the external drive so the HDD is fine. I'll take it in, kindly explain to them the problem and hope like hell a magical "genie" who knows whats up will take my money and do something useful with it. I swear, if they come back and say "SATA controller is dead - nothing we can do, $180 for data recovery" :rolleyes:

wainuitech
11-04-2013, 08:40 AM
Only just re-read the original post.

Stating the obvious, what happens if you disable the Sleep and actually shut it down, does it fire up OK after that ? It's possible if it does startup OK, that the OS cant actually re power the ports again from sleep .

It could be doing similar to certain Windows PC's/Laptops, when in sleep mode some devices are turned off to save power, the network card is a common one, and many wont work till a reboot no matter what settings are changed.

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 09:01 AM
It seems to reboot ok if it shuts down. The problem is now that it can't see the HDD again I can't get it to boot normally. If it was a sleep/wake issue I'd have thought it should clear on boot. It doesn't. Unless Macbooks keep a list of the power states in the PRAM or something, but I have cleared PRAM and SMC to no avail.

plod
11-04-2013, 09:55 AM
Have you done a hardware test? hold down D i think when booting. My previous post was asking why you keep downloading(presuming the OS)

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 10:02 AM
Just finished hardware test, came up clean. Since the HDD isn't detected there's no recovery partition to boot from, the temp storage it uses for the internet recovery partition must be on the RAM or other volatile storage because it has to re download after a reboot.

Interestingly, after running hardware test it's found the HDD again and booted. I'll see if I can find mention of any power saving features related to SATA and disable them for now.

Out of interest it's an Intel 6 Series controller, any known issues with them? Google doesn't show anything obvious.

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 10:33 AM
Cheeky bastard of a laptop, now it wants to work fine. Several re boots and sleep/wakes later and still going fine.

I give in. If it dies again it's going to become someone else's problem.

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 11:02 AM
Finally on to something, apply external power and the problems back. Seems like it runs fine on battery, but as soon as that chargers connected it's a gonner.

Still, if it's hardware (esp in a laptop where everything's glued to the mobo) It's out of my "fixability" - off to the "genies" at yoobee :p

Agent_24
11-04-2013, 11:32 AM
Finally on to something, apply external power and the problems back. Seems like it runs fine on battery, but as soon as that chargers connected it's a gonner.

Maybe there's something wrong with the charger then

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 04:44 PM
Maybe there's something wrong with the charger then

Could be, dropped it in today though as I really couldn't be bothered spending more of my time going nowhere.

Anyway - here's what I got back from yoobee (AKA reinforcing the fact I don't trust them at all)


4928

To me $120 to replace a HDD is a bit steep, especially if you just charged them $70 to look at it. $120 for the actual drive is pretty damn steep too. I bought the WD Blue (500GB) for ~$90 and then nearly $40 for a SATA cable? They're about $15-$25 on eBay. By itself I guess the prices are justifiable but $400 to replace the HDD on a laptop? Good yarn! In my current position I'd charge $50 for labour + parts, if I ran a business maybe $100 + parts?

TL/DR - They say the drive has failed and want $400 to replace it

A bit suspicious about the HDD failure, if it has it's under warranty but it ran fine in an external enclosure and when it booted. No errors, SMART clean. A clicking HDD is pretty hard NOT to notice.

Oh well, little sis can fork out the $70 for the inspection and the $20 for a new HDD cable... a savings of $310 :p

Agent_24
11-04-2013, 05:13 PM
It's a Mac, what do you expect it to cost?

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 05:35 PM
It's a Mac, what do you expect it to cost?

A price that wasn't a rip off, followed by a service that wasn't bullsh*t

Didn't even check if that two month old hdd was in warranty in the (which it is) event of failure

wainuitech
11-04-2013, 06:46 PM
$120 for the actual drive is pretty damn steep too So how much do you think they actually are ??

Just looked on several sites, and a Seagate 2.5" 500GB Hdd is roughly $94 +, so being installed into a MAC $120 is about right.


In my current position I'd charge $50 for labour That's the sort of prices cowboy businesses charge, ( not saying your a cowboy but low prices generally mean "fly by nighters")you'll find most business ( because they know what they are doing) that have been around for a while are closer to double that, if not more / hour.

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 06:52 PM
Just got the laptop back.... in parts. They'd taken the flex out, left the screws in a little bag and just handed it to me. I was in a big rush so didn't really stop to argue. Just put the HDD back in the laptop, pocketed the screws and left.

Quite shocked at the poor level of service really, I mean price/diagnosis aside handing a customer back a laptop that's still in bits is ridiculous.

Never again yoobee. Never again. Wouldn't have expected it from such a high profile (and apple authorized) repair center.

wainuitech
11-04-2013, 06:57 PM
especially if you just charged them $70 to look at it Just saw that comment ---- HP service centres charge more than that, last time I checked it was $80 +gst just to inspect them, even if its obvious what the problem is.

Realistically I think you need to get real with what a real business charges, not a fly by night, amateur cost with no backup service when it turns to custard.

How you got the laptop back is not uncommon, Esp with the comment :
I was in a big rush so didn't really stop to argue they could have been waiting for you to answer, they aren't going to put it back together only to strip it and fix it at a later time.



I got a Toshiba Laptop like that at the moment, its all in bits on a workbench - I'm waiting for the customer to get back to me as to if she wants me to replace the suspect , and failing parts.

Most of the work in fixing a computer is actually finding the fault. Once the fault is found the rest is easy and generally not time consuming. Could take hours /days to track down the problem.

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 07:35 PM
Fair enough re cost, I don't really know what's "acceptable" on that front since I don't work in the "proper" industry by definition, nor do I have extensive experience with how much is "normal" for such an operation. The main fault with the $70 was that was on top of the installation charges. To me that seemed a little steep (or perhaps I'm just being too much of a tight bastard)

I didn't come in rushed though, I had places to be but didn't show it. Just said I wasn't going to go through with the repair, paid off the bill and then they show up with all the parts. What got me was the way they'd all ready taken things apart in preparation for assuming I'd go through with it.

Probably went a bit over the top in the response after seeing them quote $400 to replace a HDD... that's what really got me.

plod
11-04-2013, 07:51 PM
So would it be fair to say the original problem was caused my sister dropping it, current problem caused by your botched attempt of fixing original problem? And the price wasn't just for replacing HDD, it also included other parts that were damaged

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 08:29 PM
Wouldn't say it was a "botched" effort?

HDD failed due to impact damage, although it carried on for at least a year before it got bad BUT the bad HDD wasn't causing the original problem (random re starts) that was a problem with the magsafe connector module which was replaced. Ran fine for two months since then, she re starts and this happens. Probably all connected to the original damage which is pretty severe but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a result of a botched effort on my part.

Only thing I botched was not trying a new flex cable (didn't have one) and probably calling yoobee out unnecessarily. Fair call, caught in my own moment and over reacted regarding price.

Only part actually damaged was the flex cable, the WD drive is fine, you might remember in an earlier thread I thought I got a DOA drive since it clicked in two of my caddys and wouldn't initialize. Never actually pinned the problem, I think it has something to do with trying to use a 5v instead of 12v power supply or not getting enough current... I think, can't confirm that.

Tested the drive since it's out of the laptop, SMART still clean. Surface scan clean. Drive is fine.

wainuitech
11-04-2013, 09:13 PM
re the it wasn't assembled when you went to get it --- If you hadn't contacted them before going in and advising you didn't want it repaired then they wouldn't have put it back together yet.

As mentioned before, ( think about it for a moment) if you stripped a computer to find a fault, and were waiting to get a reply as to if you were going to fix it or not, would you strip it find the fault, put it back together, the person then says yes go ahead, so now you would have to re- strip it to repair it ?? I know I wouldn't till I go t a reply one way or the other ;)

If you turned up, and after the shock say NO, and want it now, then they would pick it up and give it back as is.

Since the Lappy has been dropped at some stage, its also possible its got a intermittent fault / damage that has gotten worse over time.

(some advise) Sometimes trying to be helpful, by saying you have done this that and the other sometimes gives an impression of a "know all".

I wish I had $$$$ for every time someone said my "brother, Mate, son, daughter, the dog across the street" says its ?????????, I take comments like that with a grain of salt, often to find the fault is something completely different -----------Oh Wait I do get $$$$$ :p

When I get the comments, Brother , Mate etc knows all about computers I'm tempted to say " so why are you calling me then " :D



One thing that I'm not surprised about is the outcome you got - Meaning, looking back over this thread in post #6 it was made very clear the previous time you dealt with them it was far from a good experience. They may have been closer to where you are, but the "experience" this time only really repeats previous.

Have you thought of getting the parts and fixing it yourself ?? Mind you getting MAC parts is like pulling teeth sometimes ( read most times, MB's etc)

The Error Guy
11-04-2013, 10:09 PM
Looks like I dug myself a nice hole, fair enough. Should have let them know etc. I don't think it will get much better over time, I'm kinda waiting around for to mobo to go on it tbh.



(some advise) Sometimes trying to be helpful, by saying you have done this that and the other sometimes gives an impression of a "know all".

On reflection it probably does come across that way, will keep that in mind for next time. As with people who bring in their stuff to me, I'll never take the customers diagnosis as fact. Use it as a starting point but other than that it's pretty unreliable, and I'm only a few steps up on the ladder so my "diagnosis" isn't likely to be much better :p

Last time wasn't good but I thought I'd give them a chance, perhaps they had a "bad day" in the sense of it. This time wasn't much better but it probably didn't go too bad compared to what it sounds like, certainly don't rate them highly though. I'll try elsewhere next time and see how that goes.

I got the parts for the last fix from trademe, tried configra to see if they stock the HDD flex, if not I'll try find another NZ supplier. If not ebay, but NZ would be better since it will get here faster. The next thing to go will be the mobo, and if that goes then I'm going to say get a new one. No point feeding money into a dying beast. Only reason I took it to a shop was because I thought it would be under warranty, apparently not.

Ach, oh well. Lessons learned with regards to shooting my mouth and dealing with this MBP. Had to make an foolish example of myself this month :D

wainuitech
11-04-2013, 10:50 PM
One ting to keep in mind -- If something's been dropped and there's marks /damage to show it has, kiss away the warrant instantly. Even if its not showing outward damage sometimes internal damage says different.

That's all the name brands need to say - not a "usual working condition Fault" In those cases its an insurance job.

Bit like a Toshiba laptop I sent in to be fixed under warranty, completely dead, I gave it a quick look at, looked fine, no marks etc. When Toshiba removed the covers you could see the bent components inside and the lid, once the cover was removed it was obvious it had taken a fall.

The customer, in the end confessed ( when presented with the pictures showing damage) it had been dropped several times from the couch onto the carpet :groan:

plod
11-04-2013, 11:54 PM
One ting to keep in mind -- If something's been dropped and there's marks /damage to show it has, kiss away the warrant instantly. Even if its not showing outward damage sometimes internal damage says different.

That's all the name brands need to say - not a "usual working condition Fault" In those cases its an insurance job.

Bit like a Toshiba laptop I sent in to be fixed under warranty, completely dead, I gave it a quick look at, looked fine, no marks etc. When Toshiba removed the covers you could see the bent components inside and the lid, once the cover was removed it was obvious it had taken a fall.

The customer, in the end confessed ( when presented with the pictures showing damage) it had been dropped several times from the couch onto the carpet :groan:ots a shame apple doesn't have a proper presence in NZ, going by things I have heard from rallies in the states the apple stores are very non judgemental with a lot of things

The Error Guy
12-04-2013, 12:07 AM
ots a shame apple doesn't have a proper presence in NZ, going by things I have heard from rallies in the states the apple stores are very non judgemental with a lot of things

I'd agree with that, so many times you see people on forums go to the Genius bar with a problem to come away smiling with a refurbished laptop, new phone etc etc when presented with funny issues. Their policy seems to be if it's not too old, replace it. One post I saw had a guy go in with a new MBP retina with the Ghosting issue, walked away with a brand new one. Do that here and the sales reps will laugh at you.

I'm surprised we don't even have ONE! There are a lot of re sellers but not a single proper store. I think it would be good to have one, a nice central location for apple products and shift some of it out of the retail stores. Dick Smith, Noel Leemings are notable retailers who could do with less apple stock. You walk in and it's like an apple store in disguise, everything is "compatible with iThis and iThat"