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pctek
11-10-2012, 07:02 AM
Who saw the Fair Go item on the car repair?
It's been my experience with WOFs.

I have been told all sorts of stuff:

Shocks failed
Brake master cylinder failed
Brake linings failed


and so on. None of which were the case.

The cylinder one, these guys had changed some hoses in my car, they had to remove and replace this to get at the hoses. It dipped a bit when they did so. A couple of weeks later and they fail it on this. I point out they caused the drip. No, fail.

Go home, clean drips, send husband back - passed.


Linings? Go home, take a look, linings fine, send husband back, pass.

I have only ever come across one honest mechanic. He was a backyard mechanic. The rest were like the guy on Fair Go.

inphinity
11-10-2012, 07:35 AM
Use somewhere that doesn't do the repairs themselves, and you'll find they no longer have a motivation to fail you unnecessarily just to drum up business...

bk T
11-10-2012, 08:01 AM
Not many 'trustworthy' car mechanics out there nowadays! I had one garage failed my WOF saying that one of my wheel has got some problem (too loose or something like that) and wanted $480.00 to fix it. No, no. I know my was OK. I took my car back, sent to another garage, and he passed it. This car has passed all the WOF tests since then. The charges for issuing a WOF varies from $15 to $50, different garage has different rates; this is just not right!

This WOF thingie is just an other way to give the car mechanics a chance to generate money!

I'm still looking a good and trustworthy mechanic and have been looking for 20+ years but to no avail.

lordnoddy
11-10-2012, 08:03 AM
Not being sexist but I've heard of WOF places failing female for things such as the above as they assume the woman will not know anything about cars and just pay out for the repairs. Hence passing when your husband took the car.

I went to VTNZ for a WOF on my old Mazda Familia in ~2010 and passed but was advised to replace a bulb in my rear break light. I didn't bother (seeing as I passed) and took my little car to another place 6 months later and passed without word of the tail light =\

So inconsistant...

bk T
11-10-2012, 08:04 AM
Use somewhere that doesn't do the repairs themselves, and you'll find they no longer have a motivation to fail you unnecessarily just to drum up business...

Maybe it's a good idea but then, they have 'connections' with other repair garages and get easy 'kick backs'! no difference. This system is just not right.

Gobe1
11-10-2012, 08:05 AM
Yeah my sister went to her regular mech to get something sorted 3 weeks after getting a WOF from VTNZ, they mentioned she needed 4 new tyres....went back to VTNZ and they checked she was still well within the limit of tread.
:groan: sounds like politicians

sam m
11-10-2012, 08:06 AM
Not being sexist but I've heard of WOF places failing female for things such as the above as they assume the woman will not know anything about cars and just pay out for the repairs. Hence passing when your husband took the car.

I went to VTNZ for a WOF on my old Mazda Familia in ~2010 and passed but was advised to replace a bulb in my rear break light. I didn't bother (seeing as I passed) and took my little car to another place 6 months later and passed without word of the tail light =\

So inconsistant...

Did you bother to check if your *brake* light was actually working? There is an unusual scenario where it is possible for a light bulb to not work but a gentle tap makes it work.

prefect
11-10-2012, 08:10 AM
The most honest mechanic I know in West Auckland is Hans at Candia Autos on Swanson Road, followed by Rick at Triangle Autos in Triangle Road.

wratterus
11-10-2012, 08:24 AM
We've got a few good ones in Motueka, mainly Parsons Motors, they are excellent.

WalOne
11-10-2012, 08:46 AM
The most honest mechanic I know in West Auckland is Hans at Candia Autos on Swanson Road, followed by Rick at Triangle Autos in Triangle Road.

And in Central Auckland, Barry at MSM Automotive in Station Rd, Penrose. Had my Camry in for an oil seal replacement, the seal cost around $25, but to get to it entailed removing the engine. About 5 hours work in total and a bill way into the hundreds. A few weeks later, the leak was back again. Barry thought perhaps the seal had a minor nick in it, so replaced the seal again, again having to remove the engine. Problem fixed, and at no charge. No arguments, and a win win situation because I'm a customer for life.

I dropped off an appropriate contribution for the workshop's Friday night social get-together.

:D

Trev
11-10-2012, 08:52 AM
I have a Honda Civic and took it to the local Honda agent for a service check a couple of years. After the check they told me that a couple of bushes in the rear suspension will need replacing at a cost of $350 and probably won't pass a WOF. 4 WOFs later the car has passed each one with flying colours.
:)

B.M.
11-10-2012, 09:37 AM
A few years ago now Son heads off on his big OE and leaves his car with Dad to care for.

No problem, so I dutifully register and Warrant it but one day it fails its Warrant because there was a spot of rust within 150mm of a hinge on the Hatch. I protest that it wasnít dangerous and there was no chance of it falling off and endangering anyone. The guy doing the testing was unrepentant so I demanded to see the VTS boss.

The boss agreed with me and acknowledged it was in no way dangerous and had he been doing the testing he wouldnít have noticed it. However, the rules say (and he showed me them) that no rust can be within 150mm of a hinge and he was therefore unable to overrule his staff member.

Of course once it had been failed in the Testing Station it was on record and there was no point going to another garage. So, Iím afraid I resorted to Photoshop, if you get my drift, ;) and the car was eventually disposed of As Is Ė Where Is.

In the meantime it didnít cost me a cent, other than petrol. :D

So, as far as Iím concerned get rid of the Testing Stations all together. Other countries exist without them and have a better safety record to boot.

lordnoddy
11-10-2012, 09:45 AM
Did you bother to check if your *brake* light was actually working? There is an unusual scenario where it is possible for a light bulb to not work but a gentle tap makes it work.

Ah typo - thanks for the correction. I honestly can't remember. I did see it was out after getting the first WOF but because the light consisted of 2 bulbs I didn't follow up... And yes I have known of bulbs being "loose" and working again after a tap or two.

wratterus
11-10-2012, 09:45 AM
I would never take my car to a testing station again. Impersonal service and pedantic inspections.

I did that one time, the car failed as the rear brake balance was out apparently. Took the car for a drive, heated the crap out of the brakes, came back, passed. Stuff like that is just unnecessary.

pctek
11-10-2012, 10:12 AM
The most honest mechanic I know in West Auckland is Hans at Candia Autos on Swanson Road, followed by Rick at Triangle Autos in Triangle Road.

The Triangle Rd guys were the ones that went on about the Master Cylinder. In about 2004/2005. Never went back after that bit of crap.

And one of the worst WOF places is VTNZ - they don't do repairs. makes me wonder if they have cuzzies in the repair business though.....

Yes.....the female thing.....but we had a Triumph once, the guy husband took it to found a fault every 6 months. Funnily enough it always cost about $600 to rectify. Banned husband from taking it back after 3 repairs, passed just fine after that, including on it's last "problem". I think they just look at you and decide whether you look like you know about cars or not.

DeSade
11-10-2012, 10:24 AM
Doug (I think its Doug, I am terrible with names) from ClockTower Motors in Edmonton road Hornby Christchurch.
Brilliant Mechanic and honest as the day is long, done some fine deals for me over the years, including pointing out a repair I thought would cost hundreds and only cost me a new battery.

Trev
11-10-2012, 11:01 AM
VTN I take my car to in Napier are brilliant, nice courteous and friendly staff.
:)

The Error Guy
11-10-2012, 11:10 AM
Pays to know a bit about vehicles in order to avoid them taking you for a sucker or to understand what it is they are saying and if it really is as bad as they say.

I get all my WoF's done through a mates Service Station, never had a problem with them. That bloke on fair go really did get taken for a ride.

My car has a sticky thermostat that keeps the lower radiator hose cold therefore the choke comes on when the engine is hot under certain conditions (eg parked for 5 mins then turned on again) it's very unpredictable and doesn't happen often, when it does a quick rev up to 4.5 frees it up.

Bobh
11-10-2012, 11:56 AM
I'm all for getting someone who will not be doing the repairs to inspect my car for a WOF. This way there is no incentive for the inspecting mechanic to discover repairs that will bring him extra turnover. The car sales yard that I bought my car from offer free WOF inspections for the life of the car. This way if a defect is found I can take it to another garage for repair. Alternatively I could use VTNZ to inspect the car.

DeSade
11-10-2012, 01:56 PM
I use On-The-Go for the testing, they are WOF only but not *******s like the testing stations.

prefect
11-10-2012, 04:18 PM
We've got a few good ones in Motueka, mainly Parsons Motors, they are excellent.
That's where my Dad takes his car, they are good.

prefect
11-10-2012, 04:20 PM
And in Central Auckland, Barry at MSM Automotive in Station Rd, Penrose. Had my Camry in for an oil seal replacement, the seal cost around $25, but to get to it entailed removing the engine. About 5 hours work in total and a bill way into the hundreds. A few weeks later, the leak was back again. Barry thought perhaps the seal had a minor nick in it, so replaced the seal again, again having to remove the engine. Problem fixed, and at no charge. No arguments, and a win win situation because I'm a customer for life.

I dropped off an appropriate contribution for the workshop's Friday night social get-together.

:D

Amazing how much goodwill you get with a box of cold piss on a Friday afternoon.

Lawrence
11-10-2012, 04:21 PM
Have to be careful at VTNZ Tauranga

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10784973

That's if you are Female

prefect
11-10-2012, 04:33 PM
The Triangle Rd guys were the ones that went on about the Master Cylinder. In about 2004/2005. Never went back after that bit of crap.

And one of the worst WOF places is VTNZ - they don't do repairs. makes me wonder if they have cuzzies in the repair business though.....

Yes.....the female thing.....but we had a Triumph once, the guy husband took it to found a fault every 6 months. Funnily enough it always cost about $600 to rectify. Banned husband from taking it back after 3 repairs, passed just fine after that, including on it's last "problem". I think they just look at you and decide whether you look like you know about cars or not.

Well if there was a dispute between you and one of the best and most honest mechanics I have ever met says a lot for you.

R2x1
11-10-2012, 05:27 PM
........... and the rest of the mechanics you know. ;)

mzee
11-10-2012, 06:38 PM
Our young lodger took her old Toyota to Millhouse Motors, Glenfield and instructed them to replace the cam belt as she had been told that it was overdue. He examined the car and found that the belt still had 16,000Km to go. He replaced a blown head lamp bulb and charged her $18 for his trouble. I have taken several vehicles to him over the years; always a good job at a reasonable price. He said that he didn't want her to spend money unnecessarily on an old car which could develop a serious fault at any time.

gary67
11-10-2012, 07:39 PM
Doug (I think its Doug, I am terrible with names) from ClockTower Motors in Edmonton road Hornby Christchurch.
Brilliant Mechanic and honest as the day is long, done some fine deals for me over the years, including pointing out a repair I thought would cost hundreds and only cost me a new battery.

Good to know now we are living here, anyone over Beckenham side of town?

Need a WOF next week, always used the AA in Nelson and they were fine

inphinity
11-10-2012, 08:14 PM
John at Midas in Wairau is great, too, for repairs/servicing.

pctek
12-10-2012, 06:42 AM
Well if there was a dispute between you and one of the best and most honest mechanics I have ever met says a lot for you.

I see. There wasn't a dispute. It was simple.
They changed a hose, removing the cylinder. They then failed it on faulty cylinder later.
I reminded them they had removed it, most likely causing the drip. They insisted.

I went away, had it cleaned and it was then taken back and passed.

Says a lot about them actually. Not me. And you, that you would jump to their defense without even knowing the situation.

B.M.
12-10-2012, 07:16 AM
Have to be careful at VTNZ Tauranga

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10784973

That's if you are Female

:lol: Well thatís the same Testing Station but I donít recall any Cows roaming the premises. :lol:

bk T
12-10-2012, 02:59 PM
... And you, that you would jump to their defense without even knowing the situation.

+1

prefect
12-10-2012, 04:00 PM
+1
-1

Paul.Cov
12-10-2012, 05:03 PM
I'm sick to death of the local VTNZ tossers failing my rear brakes... every 6 months either rear brakes too weak (on the pedal) or uneven. Fine on the handbrake.

The physics of the thing is such that if the handbrake is fine, then the only way the rears can be weak (and the front great) is if the proportioning valve is kaput.

These prop valves cost a bundle, so the only feasable option is the wreckers.
Replacement valves are just like the one that came out. They're pre-set in the factory and are pretty fool proof (but a real bastard to thread 5 pipes into while it drips brake fluid all over the place).

Eventually took the car to a different VTNZ station and it passed without any drama.

Spewing mad with the local tossers. Get your damned brake machine properly serviced!

Personally, I do care about safety standards, so I won't use a garage. I want the brakes properly assessed on reliable hardware, so I'll continue to use VTNZ, but the local station will likely never see me again.

I've also had issues with rust near hinges (the rear hatch... as if that matters) and above the windscreen.
Got a warning about a pending rust issue near one of the bonnet hinges and front suspension strut.

Also had some fuss about rear belts not retracting swiftly enough to please the test nazi.
What a waste of my efforts that was.

prefect
12-10-2012, 05:47 PM
Easy take the proportioning valve out and take it to pieces and throw out all the internal valves and springs just leave the case . Had to do it a few times. These valves can also stick when you are bleeding the brakes can be freed with a bash with a knockometer but if they they do it to me twice they get the internals gutted.
They are there to stop the back brakes locking up under heavy braking. I am afraid if you are getting structural rust problems it may be time to ditch the car rust seems to snowball into too hard and expensive. What I have done with the seat belt retraction speeds is just go back there again and few hours later without touching them and they say yes these are OK now. Find a VTNZ that has only proper New Zealanders in it or go somewhere else to a proper New Zealander garage.

plod
12-10-2012, 06:41 PM
I'm sick to death of the local VTNZ tossers failing my rear brakes... every 6 months either rear brakes too weak (on the pedal) or uneven. Fine on the handbrake.

The physics of the thing is such that if the handbrake is fine, then the only way the rears can be weak (and the front great) is if the proportioning valve is kaput.

These prop valves cost a bundle, so the only feasable option is the wreckers.
Replacement valves are just like the one that came out. They're pre-set in the factory and are pretty fool proof (but a real bastard to thread 5 pipes into while it drips brake fluid all over the place).

Eventually took the car to a different VTNZ station and it passed without any drama.

Spewing mad with the local tossers. Get your damned brake machine properly serviced!

Personally, I do care about safety standards, so I won't use a garage. I want the brakes properly assessed on reliable hardware, so I'll continue to use VTNZ, but the local station will likely never see me again.

I've also had issues with rust near hinges (the rear hatch... as if that matters) and above the windscreen.
Got a warning about a pending rust issue near one of the bonnet hinges and front suspension strut.

Also had some fuss about rear belts not retracting swiftly enough to please the test nazi.
What a waste of my efforts that was.had my rear brakes fail from being uneven from VTNZ. Solved problem by getting car retested at local garage that didn't have equipment to test them independently. If that makes sense. Cost me a new fee for getting it retested. As for your seatbelts, spray with silicon, gets them retracting in no time

Terry Porritt
12-10-2012, 07:00 PM
had my rear brakes fail from being uneven from VTNZ. Solved problem by getting car retested at local garage that didn't have equipment to test them independently. If that makes sense. Cost me a new fee for getting it retested. As for your seatbelts, spray with silicon, gets them retracting in no time
Why not pull the drums off, clean the brakes out, and re-adjust so that each side has the same number of 'clicks' backed off ?? It is not a difficult thing to do.

Better than having uneven braking, a bit hazardous in the wet.


Edit: the uneven braking could have been due to leaking cylinder, better safe than sorry.

plod
12-10-2012, 07:03 PM
Why not pull the drums off, clean the brakes out, and re-adjust so that each side has the same number of 'clicks' backed off ?? It is not a difficult thing to do.yeah did that, went for recheck and their still failed it. That's when I payed for it again at the local garage. Their saw why it failed previously, but said their testing equipment didn't test for rear brake unevenness only overall effectiveness

prefect
12-10-2012, 07:36 PM
Yep the garages use a tapley brake meter or US equivalent cant remember its name. I does not measure brake inequality very well, they can do a skid on gravel road to check equality. VTNZ use a rolling road brake tester. Adjusting slack up on brakes does not affect brake inequality much it just means more movement in the slack sides wheel cylinder, the mean pressure will still be the same after the slack cylinder catches up.
If you take off the drums and cant find anything obviously different but they are unequal swop one brake shoe from left to the right or swop drums if they aren't handed wheel nuts.
They raised the rolling brake machine unequality a few years ago to 30% so it if it fails it would be noticeable I guess pulling to one side under heavy brakes but you might not know because you are grabbing the steering wheel more firmly!

Paul.Cov
12-10-2012, 08:39 PM
Yeah, I wondered for a while if my prop valve(s) were becoming stuck simply because I never stomp on the brake hard enough to make the darn thaings actually do some work, so I got really heavy on the pedal for a bit, and maybe it helped. I can hear the shoes moving and releasing if I give it a good firm pump, and on odd occasions I work the brakes hard while waiting at lights just to keep things moving.

Personally, I struggle to understand why they'd want a valve that makes the rear brakes so feeble compared to the front brakes. If I'm gonna lose traction during an emergency stop, I'd rather let the rear slide and keep some steering (traction / control) on the front.
Instead these prop valves are configured to ensure your front end loses control first. Where is the logic in that? Is it based on the assumption the average mug will lock things up and fail to correct for it?

It'd be the first bit of gear they'd trash in a car used at Bathurst... bar the Holdens, which are trash within a decade anyway. ;)

B.M.
13-10-2012, 07:23 AM
Thereís an interesting article HERE (http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/7808525/WoF-test-how-often-is-safe) which seems to confirm what Iíd always suspected that it is actually the Nut behind the Steering Wheel that causes most accidents. ;)

However, thatís not included in the WOF test.

prefect
13-10-2012, 08:23 AM
Yeah, I wondered for a while if my prop valve(s) were becoming stuck simply because I never stomp on the brake hard enough to make the darn thaings actually do some work, so I got really heavy on the pedal for a bit, and maybe it helped. I can hear the shoes moving and releasing if I give it a good firm pump, and on odd occasions I work the brakes hard while waiting at lights just to keep things moving.

Personally, I struggle to understand why they'd want a valve that makes the rear brakes so feeble compared to the front brakes. If I'm gonna lose traction during an emergency stop, I'd rather let the rear slide and keep some steering (traction / control) on the front.
Instead these prop valves are configured to ensure your front end loses control first. Where is the logic in that? Is it based on the assumption the average mug will lock things up and fail to correct for it?

It'd be the first bit of gear they'd trash in a car used at Bathurst... bar the Holdens, which are trash within a decade anyway. ;)

The proportioning valves usually stick when they are operated under max braking, at rest they are closed so if stuck there they would not be proportioning. They quite often stick open when bleeding the brakes so there is almost no braking at the back wheels.
The valves are more for woman drivers who only know go and stop in the car.

coldfront
14-10-2012, 09:45 AM
Talking to last week who was complaining about the cost of Brake Pads being replaced on his car and how unsafe his car would be if a WOF was done every 12 months. He could not see my point that 12 months would be the maximum to go before getting a WOF and if he felt that way nothing was to stop him having a WOF every 6 months or whenever during that 12 months. Thats when he started on about his Brakes again!

When I pointed out to him that I noticed he liked using his brakes a lot and keeping a little bit of distance would mean not using them so much he got a bit upset. Anyways on Friday he was stuck behind me :) First thing he said to me after we parked up was "Your Brakelights dont work!!", probably because I did not need to use them was my reply. Is it so hard to understand that being in control looking ahead far enough to predict what is happening prevents wear to the brakes as well as to the tyres?

An overlooked piece of legislation to make people aware of vehicle safety would be to issue demerit points for illegal tyres at 25 points per tyre and be just as harsh on private vehilces as they are on commercial vehicles. But then I guess I am one the few who finds the current WOFs easy to pass through.

Trev
14-10-2012, 02:57 PM
I see Greg Murphy is getting into the WOF issue.
:)

CliveM
14-10-2012, 04:07 PM
I see Greg Murphy is getting into the WOF issue.
:)

Not quite. He is being very well paid to present the MTA's interest. Got little to do with his personal perspective on the subject.

prefect
14-10-2012, 05:28 PM
Not quite. He is being very well paid to present the MTA's interest. Got little to do with his personal perspective on the subject.
I always detested Murphy after his childish tantrum when he got beaten by the Pirtek Ford driven by Marcos Ambrose. Now I hate the bastard for campaigning for bi yearly inspections of cars.

Trev
14-10-2012, 05:48 PM
Not quite. He is being very well paid to present the MTA's interest. Got little to do with his personal perspective on the subject.
I'm will aware of that.
:)

WalOne
14-10-2012, 05:49 PM
I always detested Murphy after his childish tantrum when he got beaten by the Pirtek Ford driven by Marcos Ambrose. Now I hate the bastard for campaigning for bi yearly inspections of cars.


He is being very well paid to present the MTA's interest

At least Murphy's a little more subtle than say a retired Fair Go announcer flogging off carpets.

CliveM
14-10-2012, 06:14 PM
At least Murphy's a little more subtle than say a retired Fair Go announcer flogging off carpets.

I could not agree more. I have lost all respect for that guy.

plod
14-10-2012, 06:21 PM
At least Murphy's a little more subtle than say a retired Fair Go announcer flogging off carpets.i would say Kevin Milne would have done a little bit of home work before letting a company use his name to front a company, it's a shame the same cant be said for some ex sports players fronting financial companies

Nick G
14-10-2012, 06:26 PM
i would say Kevin Milne would have done a little bit of home work before letting a company use his name to front a company, it's a shame the same cant be said for some ex sports players fronting financial companies
Or car adverts.

WalOne
14-10-2012, 07:39 PM
i would say Kevin Milne would have done a little bit of home work before letting a company use his name to front a company, it's a shame the same cant be said for some ex sports players fronting financial companies

I'm not too sure Plod.

A "reference sell" as it's known, is more or less acceptable (e.g. sports people lending their endorsement to adverts). Everyone accepts a "celebrity" has a price, and may or not know anything at all about the product they endorse. Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.

But like CliveM, I too have lost any respect for the guy. I think he destroyed his entire reputation, built on professional impartiality and objectivity, by such an endorsement.

That price is too much to trade for a few paltry dollars.

plod
14-10-2012, 07:52 PM
I'm not too sure Plod.

A "reference sell" as it's known, is more or less acceptable (e.g. sports people lending their endorsement to adverts). Everyone accepts a "celebrity" has a price, and may or not know anything at all about the product they endorse. Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.

But like CliveM, I too have lost any respect for the guy. I think he destroyed his entire reputation, built on professional impartiality and objectivity, by such an endorsement.

That price is too much to trade for a few paltry dollars.so did you hold him in such high regards like the Governor General, that once he leaves his post he should be paid a salary for the rest of his life for doing nothing?

WalOne
14-10-2012, 08:17 PM
One Governor General I have never held in high regard and have personally told him so. Other Governors General I have met and in one case served on a committee with, I did (hold in high regard).

Apples with apples, and this thread really has nothing to do with any GG and their retirement benefits.

This debate is starting to become clouded. If I read you correctly, your argument is that anyone is entitled to make an income and trade on their reputation. I essentially agree. But.

I contend though, that if one has built their lifetime reputation on the qualities of impartiality, objectivity, and "fair go", then that implies that products they do not endorse could be seen to be inferior. Not worthy of that expert's endorsement.

It's not fair practice, to say the least.