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Nick G
11-09-2012, 01:44 PM
Never thought I'd say this, but I want to give linux a go on my laptop. Will be either dual or triple booting it along with win7 and win8 on a single HDD. Tried once to put linux on an older machine, but the bios didn't want me to boot from a usb. This one will have no problems doing that :cool:

Have only messed with linux once before, caused a major issue. I was booting a win xp machine into a live usb, and once I was finished windows couldn't read the HDD. Got it working eventually (can't remember how), but obviously want to avoid a repeat.

So, a couple of questions. Is it easy enough to do a triple boot, or will I be best of wiping my win8 partition first? Also, how do I avoid a repeat of when windows couldn't recognize the hard drive? I'm doing a lot of looking before I do this, what are some possible problems when booting windows and linux from the same hdd? Also, what is a good distro? I'm looking for a full fledged one, don't need something like damn small linux. Don't want to run with something that looks like windows, I'd prefer to jump in the deep end rather than slowly walk in ;) And finally, would I be likely to see things like my wireless mouse not working in linux due to drive issues?


Cheers from a linux newbie :thanks

tmrafi
11-09-2012, 01:51 PM
Why Linux? To be honest, Linux on the desktop/laptop is a dud. Unless you are a developer doing work on PHP, Ruby on Rails, etc, there is no strong argument for a regular user to use Linux, it is just a pain.
You would be much better just sticking to windows as most of the apps that a regular user needs are available for Windows / Mac only. Sure Linux geeks will say there are open source alternatives available, but they are exactly that, geek apps, not suitable for the common user.
My advice stay away from Linux. If you are so intent on running something other than Windows, get a Mac and dual boot OSX and windows.

Chilling_Silence
11-09-2012, 02:00 PM
Haha, funny guy tmrafi...

Nick G, I'd personally remove your Win8 trial. Can't say I've toyed much with Win8 & Linux dual / triple-booting, but I know that the Windows 8 bootloader does things differently half booting into Win8 before then giving you the option to reboot into Windows 7....

Give Linux Mint a try, it's clean, easy, simple, not too convoluted (In fact SurferJoe46 is about to try the same thing over here http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?126662 )

You're unlikely to run into any issues with mice / keyboard. MAYBE with relation to some eccentric WiFi card or Webcams but for the better part everything "just works". There are occasions when it doesn't, but you won't know until you give it a whirl. With the likes of Linux Mint / Ubuntu, you can boot off the CD and get a good "feel" for how it's going to operate / function when it's installed on your system, though obviously it's going to be significantly slower while operating off the disc prior to installation.

Best thing you can do is remove the partition that Win8 is on entirely and have the space "Free / unpartitioned" ready for Linux to use :)

tmrafi
11-09-2012, 02:18 PM
Haha, funny guy tmrafi...
I am speaking from experience Chill. Used Linux from 1994-2007 and then switched to OSX. Answer this, For a regular user what does Linux offer that Windows 7 doesn't. Dont tell me it is free, Windows is always bundled with laptops so in essence free.

Speedy Gonzales
11-09-2012, 02:23 PM
And you do buy laptops, unless you steal them. And I would hope it came with something on it, For what you pay for them. And thats not free. Would be good if laptops came with no OS at all. They'll be a lot cheaper

8ftmetalhaed
11-09-2012, 02:27 PM
You could also try something like the Linux live USB creator (LiLi) to put mint on a flash drive persistently. While it's a bit slow if you're using usb 2.0 kit, it's still faster than a CD from what I've seen and lets you play with it more than what a non persistent (live) version does.

tmrafi
11-09-2012, 02:34 PM
And you do buy laptops, unless you steal them.
The OP already had a laptop with Windows 7. No question of stealing here.

Yes I do use linux occasionally, BackTrack Linux for doing Network Security Audits. It sits nicely on a 8GB Pen drive with a secure encrypted filesystem and is persistent.
But I stick to my original comment, Linux on a desktop/laptop is a dud for a regular user.

psycik
11-09-2012, 02:47 PM
I would just install vmware player on the windows 7 instance, and then play from there.

KarameaDave
11-09-2012, 03:07 PM
I have for a while recommended Linux Mint but after putting the latest version on my netbook (eeepc 1201n)
I am less than impressed... issues include
Network manager dropped WIFI every 10 minutes or so (solution uninstall network manager, install WICD)
Had to install a different Bluetooth stack to get my BT mouse to work.
Getting compiz working is a rigmarole.
kept upsetting the BIOS
Mint Menu only shows an empty frame at times and have to click on it again.
Too many versions of it now so I think the devs are spread too thin to keep up with the bugs and regressions.
:(

I will be going back to PCLinuxOS as soon as I can get an .iso of it.

pcuser42
11-09-2012, 03:25 PM
Here I've got a machine quad-booting Windows 7, Windows 8 (think it's the RTM), Windows Server 2008 R2 (for the lulz :p) and Ubuntu. When installing Linux, the installer can create a bootloader setup that works using Grub, but if you don't mind playing around with EasyBCD a bit then you can get the Windows 7 bootloader loading Windows 8 as well as Ubuntu - just make sure you install Grub to the Linux partition if you do this though, not the MBR.

Nick G
11-09-2012, 04:13 PM
Ok, I'll run with linux mint. I'll wipe my windows8 partition, it would have expired in January 2013 anyway, and I would really be lost mucking about with bootloaders, I'd just **** it up :o
Next question - how best to partition my hdd. I have a 750gb hdd, which came pre partitioned into D - 394gb, and C - 350gb. I took 70gb off my C drive for win8, and have just realized that everything is on my C drive, my D is completely empty. Have tried to merge my D into my C drive, but the windows partition manager doesn't allow it. So, what I'd like to achieve would be to split my 750gb hdd into 4 partitions, a C for windows programs, a D for windows documents, photos etc, a Y for linux programs, and a Z for linux docs, photos etc. Best way/program to achieve this?

Cheers

pcuser42
11-09-2012, 04:42 PM
As for partitioning, GPared is your best bet :thumbs:


a Y for linux programs, and a Z for linux docs, photos etc.

More like invisible to Windows as it doesn't read ext2/3/4 :)

Chilling_Silence
11-09-2012, 04:47 PM
You could try using GParted Live (Another free linux live CD) to merge / join / resize / shrink / remove the partitions as appropriate if you wanted? I'm unsure if it comes on the Mint Live CD... Haven't had to try for a while.

As for the other stuff, just have 2 partitions and a little bit of free space. Linux will happily load your docs from the Windows partition, so make that one larger :)

EDIT: Yeah what pcuser42 said! :)


tmrafi, that's fantastic, I've been using Linux for over a decade now too, welcome to the club! I've done everything from running it on a Home PC, building my own Live CD distro, running LFS (Linux from Scratch) and Ubuntu, running Gentoo on the Xbox (with and without DistCC for good measure), running it for embedded devices (Like the Raspberry Pi / PC Engins Alix systems), running it on servers (Both physical and virtual) ... I've never had anywhere near the issues with Linux as I've had with Windows, but again as KarameaDave has found, it's different for everybody. You won't know unless you try, right, and if you're interested (As Nick G clearly is) then why not?

As for the question "For a regular user what does Linux offer that Windows 7 doesn't", it doesn't offer much, just in the same way that buying a Mac with OSX offers you bugger all over a Windows PC (Yet you'll still pay a premium for it). The only difference between OSX and Linux in terms of "being different from Windows" is that you have spent money on a pre-bundled product which has been deemed to work with a pre-defined set of hardware. In other words, you're paying a premium because somebody else has done the hard yards for you. If you were to go out and buy a PC to work with Linux, again it's not difficult to find hardware that will work 100% with 90% of current Linux distros out there. I can bet that your Mac wasn't "free" either, and somebody paid for it, just like you paid for Windows when you bought a normal Windows laptop for example.

I fail to see your argument, arguing that a user should stick with Windows, then arguing that you've gone with something non-Windows yourself?! Seems to be a case of "Do as I say, not as I do" if you ask me :-/

KarameaDave
11-09-2012, 06:57 PM
Yes, give it a try, if you strike problems such as I have, just google them using the relevant keywords.
Mint does have an active, helpful forum.
If you strike any issues I have resolved I will try to help you here:)
(Chills, gparted not in Mint but available through synaptic)

Driftwood
11-09-2012, 08:54 PM
Currently using Zorin os 6 on my home theatre media centre.
Been an interesting transformation from windows.
Having great fun sorting out all the audio files accumulated over the years.
The default Rhythmbox player is not too keen on wma files.

Have also got Zorin dual booted with vista on a laptop.
Went in with no problems.
Skype & webcam works fine.

fred_fish
11-09-2012, 09:46 PM
Answer this, For a regular user what does Linux offer that Windows 7 doesn't. Dont tell me it is free
It is free.
(note: this has nothing to do with the price)

Nick G
11-09-2012, 09:53 PM
Ok, I'll give GParted live a go tomorrow if I have time. Just tried an easy way (no live usb) using EaseUS. My D drive can't be absorbed into my C drive, although my Z drive (68gb originally from the C drive) can be merged with my D drive. Any ideas why this could be? Just for a heads up, my C drive is primary, my Z drive is logical, and my D drive is logical as well. As I said, I'll try GParted when I am awake and can think :p

mikebartnz
11-09-2012, 10:11 PM
You could try the PCLinuxOS live CD to see if all your hardware works with it and if you like it.
Make sure all your Windows installs are done before installing Linux as Windows still doesn't play at all nicely with other OS's.

mikebartnz
11-09-2012, 10:17 PM
I am speaking from experience Chill. Used Linux from 1994-2007 and then switched to OSX. Answer this, For a regular user what does Linux offer that Windows 7 doesn't. Dont tell me it is free, Windows is always bundled with laptops so in essence free.
You are a prat as Nick wants to try it which is an education on its own and if he later wants a job in IT has to be good.
I find it very hard to believe that anyone who has used Linux from 1994-2007 as you say you have could even say something like that. You sound more like a troll.
As for you saying Windows in essence is free it shows you know sod all.

KarameaDave
11-09-2012, 11:03 PM
You sound more like a troll.
As for you saying Windows in essence is free it shows you know sod all.
+1

Agent_24
11-09-2012, 11:53 PM
For a regular user what does Linux offer that Windows 7 doesn't

A severe lack of viruses.

Chilling_Silence
12-09-2012, 07:56 AM
A severe lack of viruses.

It's OK, he runs Mac OS, everyone knows they don't get .... Oh wait, yeah, they do get them too ;)

pcuser42
12-09-2012, 08:19 AM
A severe lack of viruses.

Common sense ought to stop most of them anyway ;)

Nick G
12-09-2012, 09:25 AM
Wohoo! Thought I'd try a different partition manager, AOMEI worked! So, now to set up a dual boot and wipe windows 8. Next question - what do I need to do to make sure it goes on my secondary partition and doesn't do an install over windows?

mikebartnz
12-09-2012, 09:58 AM
Wohoo! Thought I'd try a different partition manager, AOMEI worked! So, now to set up a dual boot and wipe windows 8. Next question - what do I need to do to make sure it goes on my secondary partition and doesn't do an install over windows?
If you have wiped the Windows8 partition and it is showing free just have it installing in the free space. Your second HD will be sdb.

Chilling_Silence
12-09-2012, 10:07 AM
Just go through the install and it'll prompt you :)

Nick G
12-09-2012, 10:17 AM
Just go through the install and it'll prompt you :)
Ok, cheers.
Just been looking on the web and seen all the horror stories about not being able to boot into windows and the like lol
Well, if its as easy as running through the installer, hopefully by tonight I'll have linux - otherwise I'll be able to add my horror story to SJ's thread :p :D

Nick G
12-09-2012, 12:14 PM
Ok, just before I sell my commit myself to linux - been reading about cases where linux overwrote the windows bootloader and ****ed it up. Is this likely to happen or is this internet scare stories?

Agent_24
12-09-2012, 12:18 PM
Ok, just before I sell my commit myself to linux - been reading about cases where linux overwrote the windows bootloader and ****ed it up. Is this likely to happen or is this internet scare stories?

It's unlikely to happen if you install GRUB correctly, but it is possible.

However, you can easily repair the Windows bootloader from your Windows CD\DVD.

Chilling_Silence
12-09-2012, 12:23 PM
Yeah it's easy enough to boot back off the Windows CD / DVD and run:
fixboot /mbr

Nick G
12-09-2012, 12:57 PM
Yeah it's easy enough to boot back off the Windows CD / DVD and run:
fixboot /mbr
yea, don't have a Windows CD :p
Just my recovery partition.

Nick G
12-09-2012, 12:59 PM
It's unlikely to happen if you install GRUB correctly, but it is possible.

However, you can easily repair the Windows bootloader from your Windows CD\DVD.
I'm stuffed then :p
Gently talk me through the process of setting it up? No site I've found has been hugely helpful. I got the idea i just booted from a usb with mint iso on it, but there isn't much on the grub. Would I need to install it first in windows, or install mint then set up my grub? :confused:

Surfer Joe - I feel your pain :)

Agent_24
12-09-2012, 01:13 PM
It is normally all automatic, if the linux you're installing has a decent installer it will tell you if the location you selected for the bootloader may cause problems.

mikebartnz
12-09-2012, 01:24 PM
Ok, just before I sell my commit myself to linux - been reading about cases where linux overwrote the windows bootloader and ****ed it up. Is this likely to happen or is this internet scare stories?
Never had a problem any time I have installed Linux. During the installation the Windows partition has always been recognised.
It can always be sorted from the Linux live CD anyway.

Chilling_Silence
12-09-2012, 01:33 PM
I got the idea i just booted from a usb with mint iso on it, but there isn't much on the grub. Would I need to install it first in windows, or install mint then set up my grub? :confused:

First off, it's not *quite* like that. An ISO file is a CD Image, so predominantly you burn it to a CD / DVD.
However if you want to boot off a USB Drive, you can use something like this: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/
You basically download the Universal USB Installer, select your thumbdrive, select the ISO, and it puts the ISO onto the USB thumbdrive in such a way that makes it bootable.

As for Grub, don't worry about it. Linux Mint should automatically put it on to your MBR (Master Boot Record) overwriting the Windows one, and it'll auto-detect the Windows 7 partition and get it setup as an entry in Grub for you.
So when you boot your PC, you'll see something that looks like this:
http://tricks2fix.topwebhostingzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/linux-mint-grub.png

Basically if you leave it for 10 seconds, it'll boot Mint Linux, however you can also during that time push the up and down arrow keys (Which stops the countdown) and allows you to choose Windows 7 or the likes.

Easy :D

mikebartnz
12-09-2012, 01:40 PM
Easy :D
Certainly a lot easier than trying to install Windows after Linux.:D

tmrafi
12-09-2012, 01:52 PM
It's OK, he runs Mac OS, everyone knows they don't get .... Oh wait, yeah, they do get them too ;)
Very funny Chill, then why does Avast, ClamAV, BitDefender, AVG,etc make AntiVirus for Linux?
Any techie worth his salt knows that Virus writers have moved away from targeting OS as most of the OSes have got it right over the years. They now target Browsers and Browser plugins and that has got nothing to do with Windows, MacOS or Linux. An exploit in Firefox or Flash has got nothing to do with the OS it is running on.
As I said initially, unless a person wants to learn PHP, GCC, Ruby on Rails, etc, there is no requirement to install Linux. I specifically said for a regular user who just runs pre-built apps, Linux on a desktop/laptop is a dud.
And as for the Windows cost, it comes bundled with the laptop. Yes you can buy laptops without OS but not from a big brand and they are not any cheaper than the ones bundled with Windows anyway.
I don't want to take this thread to the dark side, but I never said I ran Apple Hardware ;-)

Nick G
12-09-2012, 01:54 PM
Easy :D
Thanks - doesn't sound too bad, I'll give it a go.
@Mikebartnz - yes, I saw some things to do with that, sounded almost impossible. :)

Nick G
12-09-2012, 01:56 PM
Very funny Chill, then why does Avast, ClamAV, BitDefender, AVG,etc make AntiVirus for Linux?
Any techie worth his salt knows that Virus writers have moved away from targeting OS as most of the OSes have got it right over the years. They now target Browsers and Browser plugins and that has got nothing to do with Windows, MacOS or Linux. An exploit in Firefox or Flash has got nothing to do with the OS it is running on.
As I said initially, unless a person wants to learn PHP, GCC, Ruby on Rails, etc, there is no requirement to install Linux. I specifically said for a regular user who just runs pre-built apps, Linux on a desktop/laptop is a dud.
And as for the Windows cost, it comes bundled with the laptop. Yes you can buy laptops without OS but not from a big brand and they are not any cheaper than the ones bundled with Windows anyway.
I don't want to take this thread to the dark side, but I never said I ran Apple Hardware ;-)
Yup, it comes bundled with the hardware. Linux is free, can't hurt to give it a go. Even if it is no better than windows, that means windows (which costs) is no better than a free OS. My guess - windows is better in some areas, linux in others. As I said, can't hurt to give it a go.

mikebartnz
12-09-2012, 02:16 PM
Very funny Chill, then why does Avast, ClamAV, BitDefender, AVG,etc make AntiVirus for Linux?
Any techie worth his salt knows that Virus writers have moved away from targeting OS as most of the OSes have got it right over the years. They now target Browsers and Browser plugins and that has got nothing to do with Windows, MacOS or Linux. An exploit in Firefox or Flash has got nothing to do with the OS it is running on.
You are wrong there as so many Windows users run as administrator as against Linux which positively discourages it.
I have Clam AV installed and once in a while I will run it but I mainly have it for when I have a Windows HD connected.
Having an anti-virus program running in Linux can help stop Windows viruses propagating.


As I said initially, unless a person wants to learn PHP, GCC, Ruby on Rails, etc, there is no requirement to install Linux. I specifically said for a regular user who just runs pre-built apps, Linux on a desktop/laptop is a dud.
What an earth is this requirement to install rubbish.
If it is such a dud why are more and more people from this site trying it.
There are three things I really find deficient in Windows when ever I use it and that is the lack of multiple desktops, lack of middle click paste and the other that I am always getting caught out with and that is how the action doesn't follow the mouse like in Linux.

Chilling_Silence
12-09-2012, 02:17 PM
Very funny Chill, then why does Avast, ClamAV, BitDefender, AVG,etc make AntiVirus for Linux?
Wow seriously? If you'd used Linux for so long you'd know they predominantly scan for Windows viruses .... zzz


Any techie worth his salt knows that Virus writers have moved away from targeting OS as most of the OSes have got it right over the years. They now target Browsers and Browser plugins and that has got nothing to do with Windows, MacOS or Linux. An exploit in Firefox or Flash has got nothing to do with the OS it is running on.
Not entirely
Again, on top of that, anything is *infinitely* more contained in Linux as the default user has just that: User permissions
On Windows is INSANELY easy to go %@#$ around in the registry, change it so that every time you load up your browser it also fires up this other malware, or modify it so that any EXE file that wants to load must go through that malware first. Doesn't just affect that one user either so it's a PAIN to remove.
Linux: Copy the un-infected pictures / videos / documents to a fresh user profile, delete the old one. Sorted


As I said initially, unless a person wants to learn PHP, GCC, Ruby on Rails, etc, there is no requirement to install Linux. I specifically said for a regular user who just runs pre-built apps, Linux on a desktop/laptop is a dud.
Well apparently not, it's seeing quite a bit of growth, and if you add in the fact that Android (Linux kernel base) has 500 million installs, people are starting to like what a Linux system has to offer and it's piquing interest in it on the Desktop.
On top of that, you can learn PHP on Windows too, there is no requirement to install linux just to do that.


And as for the Windows cost, it comes bundled with the laptop. Yes you can buy laptops without OS but not from a big brand and they are not any cheaper than the ones bundled with Windows anyway.
I don't want to take this thread to the dark side, but I never said I ran Apple Hardware ;-)
That's fine if you want to run a hackintosh, but that's potentially even *worse* than actually paying for it. You're using the non-mainstream OS (Why would anybody wanna use something other than Microsoft?) on non-standard hardware (So you've spent time clearly figuring out what to do to make your OS "work" for you, just as you would had you run Linux).
Yet you have the gall to suggest nobody else should do likewise?

Definitely a case of "Do as I say, not as I do". Not interested personally.

Again, if somebody is interested in it, why not let them? Why all the negativity?

mikebartnz
12-09-2012, 02:20 PM
Yup, it comes bundled with the hardware. Linux is free, can't hurt to give it a go. Even if it is no better than windows, that means windows (which costs) is no better than a free OS. My guess - windows is better in some areas, linux in others. As I said, can't hurt to give it a go.
So true as they both have their advantages.
Good on you for keeping an open mind and wanting to educate yourself by giving it a go. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

mikebartnz
12-09-2012, 02:24 PM
Again, if somebody is interested in it, why not let them? Why all the negativity?
Where is that troll icon.:D

Agent_24
12-09-2012, 02:34 PM
tmrafi makes no sense...

Since first trying Linux (Ubuntu) in the end of 2005 my usage has only ever increased. I've done a lot of things with it, and in fact I usually boot up Linux instead of Windows now unless I want to do gaming or run some Windows-only program.

It does have its problems, as does anything, but overall it's good and useful, and you can't argue with totally free!

Chilling_Silence
12-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Where is that troll icon.:D
Probably the same place as our +1 button :p

Nick G
12-09-2012, 03:12 PM
Probably the same place as our +1 button :p
That needs +1ing :lol:

Nick G
13-09-2012, 04:11 PM
Well, here goes. Just wiped my win8 partition, burning the ISO to a dvd now, hopefully soon I'll be in linux.

mikebartnz
13-09-2012, 04:28 PM
Good luck.

Nick G
13-09-2012, 04:40 PM
Good luck.
Thanks - I might need it :D

Nick G
13-09-2012, 04:51 PM
Ok, first issue already encountered - before I even run the disk. When I start up, I still get the option to boot into windows 8, even though I formatted the partition it was on. How can I stop this?

Chilling_Silence
13-09-2012, 04:57 PM
^^ is a Windows fault, with the Windows Bootloader ;)
In Win7:
Right-click on Computer --> Properties --> Advanced System Settings --> (Startup and Recovery) Settings --> Adjust the OSs / Time to display there

Nick G
13-09-2012, 05:01 PM
So just make it 0 seconds?

Nick G
13-09-2012, 05:54 PM
Ok, cheers Chill, that works. Next issue that stumps me - I burned the ISO of linux mint to a DVD, put it in my drive, restarted, went into bios, set it to boot to the dvd. Got a message when trying to boot saying something like insert valid media to continue. Where have I gone wrong here?

Chilling_Silence
13-09-2012, 06:13 PM
You've burned the ISO to DVD as a file, rather than burning it as an image. In windows, how many files are there?

You need to use something like imgburn in windows to burn the disc

Agent_24
13-09-2012, 06:14 PM
You've burned the ISO to DVD as a file, rather than burning it as an image. In windows, how many files are there?

You need to use something like imgburn in windows to burn the disc

Perhaps, or the disk was crap or burned too fast etc

Nick G
13-09-2012, 06:23 PM
You've burned the ISO to DVD as a file, rather than burning it as an image. In windows, how many files are there?

You need to use something like imgburn in windows to burn the disc
Just the one file, a 906,200kb ISO file. Will format it, and try again using imgburn

8ftmetalhaed
13-09-2012, 06:34 PM
if you have the space on a flash drive, burn it to that for install. will likely be faster than a cd/dvd.

edit - plus saves you a disc.

Chilling_Silence
13-09-2012, 06:39 PM
Just the one file, a 906,200kb ISO file. Will format it, and try again using imgburn

Exactly, so I'm on the money. You need to use something like Imgburn... then it'll work :-)

Nick G
13-09-2012, 06:41 PM
Exactly, so I'm on the money. You need to use something like Imgburn... then it'll work :-)
burnt using imgburn, will try it now. Better standby for more problems :p

Nick G
13-09-2012, 06:49 PM
next problem.
starts to work, I get a grey background that says linux mint, but then get this 'invalid or corrupt kernel'

Agent_24
13-09-2012, 07:23 PM
Use Imgburn to verify the disk against the ISO file to ensure it was burned without errors.

KarameaDave
13-09-2012, 07:26 PM
OK, throw away that disc and make a new one, reburning often results in errors that render sensitive files like kernel images corrupt.
Better to use a non rewriteable medium and burn at a slow speed.
In my experience, anyway.

You could load the .ISO to a flash drive using unetbootin and boot and install from that if you want.

8ftmetalhaed
13-09-2012, 07:34 PM
http://www.linuxliveusb.com/

Nick G
13-09-2012, 07:50 PM
Doh! Sometimes I am stupid. I burnt a download of mint which had failed a quarter of the way through, not the one which had downloaded sucsessfully :blush:
Well, I'll get it all set up again, might not have time tonight as i have to be somewhere, might have to leave it till tomorrow.

sam m
13-09-2012, 07:54 PM
I think someone called tmrafi might have been on to something.

Agent_24
13-09-2012, 07:56 PM
I think someone called tmrafi might have been on to something.

I'm pretty sure he didn't say anything about problems due to a failed download.

Nick G
13-09-2012, 08:10 PM
I think someone called tmrafi might have been on to something.
The problem with my router, it crapped out halfway through and I didn't notice. Yes, I should have been paying more attention. No, that does not mean I shouldn't try linux.

KarameaDave
13-09-2012, 08:11 PM
tmrafi is definitely on something :D

Nick G
13-09-2012, 08:21 PM
tmrafi is definitely on something :D
Found my mistake. I had managed to successfully download it, but hadn't deleted the failed download. When it came to it, I selected the one that had failed partway through. Bad mistake that....
Anyway, would do it tonight, but have to leave as of now. See you all tomorrow so you can solve my problems then :D

mikebartnz
13-09-2012, 08:37 PM
Ok, first issue already encountered - before I even run the disk. When I start up, I still get the option to boot into windows 8, even though I formatted the partition it was on. How can I stop this?
You have to set the bios to boot from the CD.

mikebartnz
13-09-2012, 08:41 PM
I think someone called tmrafi might have been on to something.
Are you another troll.

mikebartnz
13-09-2012, 08:42 PM
tmrafi is definitely on something :D
The problems he has had has had nothing to do with Linux as he hasn't even got there yet.

Chilling_Silence
13-09-2012, 08:52 PM
Anyway, would do it tonight, but have to leave as of now. See you all tomorrow so you can solve my problems then :D

Don't worry, it happens :)

You should ask Jen about the time I burned her off an old redhat / fedora distro, I think I went through some 6-7 CD's back in the day? Funny story anyways, but it happens to all of us :)

Good luck and we'll see you tomorrow no doubt.

sam m
13-09-2012, 08:59 PM
The problems he has had has had nothing to do with Linux as he hasn't even got there yet.

He did say it was a pain, and we can all predict more to come. If he is os curious, enjoy the pain.

KarameaDave
13-09-2012, 09:34 PM
sam m = tmrafi? :D

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 12:06 AM
sam m = tmrafi? :D
=troll

sam m
14-09-2012, 04:25 AM
We shall see,. My penguin crystal ball tells me Nick will be back again and again and again and again. If he enjoys that learning then well done. Tmrafi advised that linux is a pain because of xyz and the MANY problems he will encounter. I read those posts and agree 100%. Linux = too many cooks spoil the broth.

Chilling_Silence
14-09-2012, 08:03 AM
We have the same problem with both Windows AND Mac users, so I don't understand your point?

Nick G
14-09-2012, 08:17 AM
You have to set the bios to boot from the CD.
I did. Still didn't work, that was as I burned the ISO incorrectly so it went to my secondary boot option. Then, when I burned it correctly, the file was only a 1/4 finished. Well, here I come again.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 08:21 AM
We shall see,. My penguin crystal ball tells me Nick will be back again and again and again and again. If he enjoys that learning then well done. Tmrafi advised that linux is a pain because of xyz and the MANY problems he will encounter. I read those posts and agree 100%. Linux = too many cooks spoil the broth.
Yup, I'll be back again and again and again, guaranteed. Also guaranteed I'll get really helpful support here that solves my questions, and a couple of months in I'll be zipping along linux wondering how I ever thought it would be so hard. If your point is windows will never have that issue, show someone a win8 pc and watch them struggle. Of course I enjoy that learning - its the reason that I'm on the forums and trying linux after having given win8 a go.

jcr1
14-09-2012, 09:13 AM
Yup, I'll be back again and again and again, guaranteed. Also guaranteed I'll get really helpful support here that solves my questions, and a couple of months in I'll be zipping along linux wondering how I ever thought it would be so hard. If your point is windows will never have that issue, show someone a win8 pc and watch them struggle. Of course I enjoy that learning - its the reason that I'm on the forums and trying linux after having given win8 a go.
Good on you Nick. That's how it's been for me, from time to time the last few years. There are some real helpful knowledgeable people here.
I've tried quite a few Linux things; obliterated the odd hard drive in the early days of dual booting:eek: (Mandrake, Red Hat and Debian - all since got easier - mind you I don't bother about Mandriva or Fedora now).
I built a Gentoo install, just about had me around the twist - but I got there, once again thanks to the help I received from this forum.
Recently I've built a couple of servers running Debian (actually Proxmox on one of them for virtualisation) and that's worked really well.
I don't use Linux so much for desktop stuff, but I do think it's fine - Ubuntu or Linux Mint would be my current picks. Linux has definitely got a lot easier in the last few years and the comment you made about the struggle people have with Win8, is a case in point and I'd go so far as to say that Linux can be easier to install than Windows:)
Linux projects can be absolutely fascinating and playing around with the command line (I sure am not an expert here though) a bit is great.
Down the track a bit, if you've got an old computer, you could install Debian on it and use it as a backup server etc. then connect to it via filezilla and putty.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 09:17 AM
Ok, have managed to get the setup started. I select my partition, and have an option to make the either /windows or /dos

What is this, and which one do I pick?
And there is also a box which says 'device for bootloader installation'. Which partition do I put this on?
Cheers

Chilling_Silence
14-09-2012, 09:36 AM
It's basically asking "When you're in Linux, where do you wanna find your Windows partition". Just be *certain* that you're not installing it onto that partition though, be sure to read and re-read what you're about to do there.

Put it on the primary partition :)

Nick G
14-09-2012, 09:41 AM
It's basically asking "When you're in Linux, where do you wanna find your Windows partition". Just be *certain* that you're not installing it onto that partition though, be sure to read and re-read what you're about to do there.

Put it on the primary partition :)
So I install linux on my secondary partiton, but put to bootloader on my primary partition? And should the mount point be /windows or /dos?

Cheers

KarameaDave
14-09-2012, 09:45 AM
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/09/12/7-tips-for-dual-booting-linux-distributions-and-windows/

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 10:47 AM
We have the same problem with both Windows AND Mac users, so I don't understand your point?
The point is that he is a boring old fart.

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 10:48 AM
Yup, I'll be back again and again and again, guaranteed. Also guaranteed I'll get really helpful support here that solves my questions, and a couple of months in I'll be zipping along linux wondering how I ever thought it would be so hard. If your point is windows will never have that issue, show someone a win8 pc and watch them struggle. Of course I enjoy that learning - its the reason that I'm on the forums and trying linux after having given win8 a go.
:thumbs::thumbs:

Nick G
14-09-2012, 11:03 AM
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/09/12/7-tips-for-dual-booting-linux-distributions-and-windows/
Cheers, will have a look at that.

sam m
14-09-2012, 11:33 AM
The point is that he is a boring old fart.

very clever, you did remember, and the pain still hurts doesn't it.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 12:09 PM
Ok, my next question.
I have the boot loader going on /dev/sda2, which is my primary partition where windows is. I have linux going on /dev/sda5. I go to click install. and get this. 'no root file system is defined. Please select one from the partitioning menu'. What??? :confused:

Agent_24
14-09-2012, 12:11 PM
Ok, my next question.
I have the boot loader going on /dev/sda2, which is my primary partition where windows is. I have linux going on /dev/sda5. I go to click install. and get this. 'no root file system is defined. Please select one from the partitioning menu'. What??? :confused:

You need to define at least one partition for Linux and give it "/" mount point.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 12:14 PM
You need to define at least one partition for Linux and give it "/" mount point.
Oh, ok, So I stick the / on the one I want to install linux on? Will do, thanks.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 12:18 PM
Ok, I now have a pretty small partition for swap space, and my 200gb partition that I want to put linux on to formatted as ext2, with a / mount point. Have I got this right?

pcuser42
14-09-2012, 12:25 PM
Ok, my next question.
I have the boot loader going on /dev/sda2, which is my primary partition where windows is. I have linux going on /dev/sda5. I go to click install. and get this. 'no root file system is defined. Please select one from the partitioning menu'. What??? :confused:

First of all, I don't think you want to install the bootloader to your Windows partition ;) How are you planning on loading the various OSs? With Windows or Grub?

IIRC to fix that error message you need to put in a \ somewhere, can't exactly remember where though (someone else can assist here).

Agent_24
14-09-2012, 12:33 PM
Ok, I now have a pretty small partition for swap space, and my 200gb partition that I want to put linux on to formatted as ext2, with a / mount point. Have I got this right?

Sounds good, but I would go with ext3 or ext4 if available as they are newer\better

Don't make swap too small, though. If you want to use hibernation swap needs to be at least the same size as your RAM or larger. For most usage though, 512MB is probably all you need.

On this machine with 4GB RAM the swap was automatically created at 900MB

Nick G
14-09-2012, 12:34 PM
First of all, I don't think you want to install the bootloader to your Windows partition ;) How are you planning on loading the various OSs? With Windows or Grub?

IIRC to fix that error message you need to put in a \ somewhere, can't exactly remember where though (someone else can assist here).
Was planning on using the windows bootloader. Where would you recommend placing it?

Nick G
14-09-2012, 12:35 PM
Sounds good, but I would go with ext3 or ext4 if available as they are newer\better
Ok, will do. I have my '/' in the right place?

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 12:37 PM
Sounds good, but I would go with ext3 or ext4 if available as they are newer\better
Go for Ext3 for the boot partition and Ext4 for the rest.
I always create the minimum of / , /boot , /home.
Just put grub on the MBR and it will pick up Windows no problem.

Agent_24
14-09-2012, 12:39 PM
Ok, will do. I have my '/' in the right place?

Only you can really answer that. Have you selected the correct drive\partition that you want to install to?

Nick G
14-09-2012, 12:47 PM
Sounds good, but I would go with ext3 or ext4 if available as they are newer\better

Don't make swap too small, though. If you want to use hibernation swap needs to be at least the same size as your RAM or larger. For most usage though, 512MB is probably all you need.

On this machine with 4GB RAM the swap was automatically created at 900MB
My swap is 4287mb, so same size as my ram.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 12:48 PM
Only you can really answer that. Have you selected the correct drive\partition that you want to install to?
Yes, so its all good then there at least.

pcuser42
14-09-2012, 12:48 PM
Was planning on using the windows bootloader. Where would you recommend placing it?

Place the bootloader on the Linux partition. EasyBCD in Windows should then pick it up.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 12:49 PM
Go for Ext3 for the boot partition and Ext4 for the rest.
I always create the minimum of / , /boot , /home.
Just put grub on the MBR and it will pick up Windows no problem.
Boot and home?! How large a partition would you put each of them on?

Nick G
14-09-2012, 12:50 PM
Place the bootloader on the Linux partition. EasyBCD in Windows should then pick it up.
Thanks, will do.

Agent_24
14-09-2012, 12:57 PM
Boot and home?! How large a partition would you put each of them on?

I'm not sure because I don't do it that way. I just stick everything on /

http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/partitioning-your-hard-drive-during-a-linux-install/ shows some suggested sizes if you want to do multiple partitions

Chilling_Silence
14-09-2012, 01:00 PM
Here's a better question:
Why are you not just letting it auto-partition it and telling it "Use all unpartitioned space"? :p

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 01:07 PM
Place the bootloader on the Linux partition. EasyBCD in Windows should then pick it up.
Grub is just as good and it gets set up automatically on install so why muck around with EasyBCD.

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 01:09 PM
Post #98 I missed out the /swap partition.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 01:09 PM
I'm not sure because I don't do it that way. I just stick everything on /

http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/partitioning-your-hard-drive-during-a-linux-install/ shows some suggested sizes if you want to do multiple partitions
Veru useful link thanks - I'll just chuck it all on / as well.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 01:10 PM
Here's a better question:
Why are you not just letting it auto-partition it and telling it "Use all unpartitioned space"? :p
Because I am difficult? ;)

KarameaDave
14-09-2012, 01:10 PM
xactly

Nick G
14-09-2012, 01:10 PM
Well all - have set everything up correctly (I think :p) and am about to let it rip. We shall see.....

Thanks for all the help.

KarameaDave
14-09-2012, 01:28 PM
Good luck!

Nick G
14-09-2012, 01:42 PM
Well, looks as though all went well - it said the installation worked, and I'm in windows now downloading easybcd. Will see how I go.

pcuser42
14-09-2012, 01:43 PM
Grub is just as good and it gets set up automatically on install so why muck around with EasyBCD. Because that's what Nick wanted to do ;)

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 02:26 PM
Boot and home?! How large a partition would you put each of them on?
Not sure if you have grub2 but I set /boot to 80mb
/ to about 100GB and /home as big as you can.
/swap I usually set to 2GB If it needs more than that you need more memory.
I have Firefox / Thunderbird / Lazarus (full IDE) / Synaptic / KDiskFree / Conky / Libre Office and a game all open and am using 887MB of 1.73GB without it using any of the swap file.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 02:29 PM
Well, everything is working! I jut chucked /boot and /home on to /, ran through the installation, booted into linux mint, had a very quick play, shut down, and here I am in windows 7. It's all working!

A huge :thanks to all.

Agent_24
14-09-2012, 02:36 PM
Great!

KarameaDave
14-09-2012, 02:37 PM
Yay!

Agent_24
14-09-2012, 02:41 PM
Now let's see if you can make your next post from inside Linux instead of Windows

Chilling_Silence
14-09-2012, 03:15 PM
Now let's see if you can make your next post from inside Linux instead of Windows
Exactly!

Where's that pesky +1 button when you need it ...

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 03:46 PM
Exactly!

Where's that pesky +1 button when you need it ...
I seem to remember it is in the same place as the troll button.:D

Nick G
14-09-2012, 04:23 PM
I seem to remember it is in the same place as the troll button.:D
Yes :D
I know linux isn't as bad for viruses as windows, but I'd like one anyway. As I can't get MSE, what is the best free antivirus for linux?

sent using firefox for linux mint

Nick G
14-09-2012, 04:35 PM
Sweet, been playing around with mint, really like it. So far, only three questions. Is there a folder like program files, or do I have to make a folder to stick programs in? And is there any way to bring back the start+d = show desktop? Its annoying not being able to do that lol. And finally, keyboard shortcuts like function=f6 to up brightness don't work. Any get around for this?

Cheers
sent from firefox for linux

Nick G
14-09-2012, 04:53 PM
And.....another simple question - I can't find an answer to it on the web though. How do you install programs in mint, and what format do they need to be downloaded in?

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 05:04 PM
And.....another simple question - I can't find an answer to it on the web though. How do you install programs in mint, and what format do they need to be downloaded in?
There will be a program like Synaptic package manager in Mint (haven't used it) where you can get all the programs you need via a repository and you don't have to worry about where they go or anything. You will find anti-virus there too. While in there make sure you run an update.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 05:34 PM
There will be a program like Synaptic package manager in Mint (haven't used it) where you can get all the programs you need via a repository and you don't have to worry about where they go or anything. You will find anti-virus there too. While in there make sure you run an update.
Cheers, will do.

KarameaDave
14-09-2012, 06:29 PM
Go to the menu in the left pane, there should be software manager, and package manager.
They do similar things, use package manager it is better IMO (it is really synaptic)
You then select what you want to install and it downloads it from the repository and
installs the components and dependencies where they must go.
I recommend you do a bit of reading before rushing into installing stuff, as it is very different to Windows.

8ftmetalhaed
14-09-2012, 07:27 PM
you also may want to familiarise yourself with the linux shell/bash thingy. I fully intend to... at some point. Similar to windows command line, but a bit more friendly if you've gotten nudged in the right direction, you've got a fair few more commands than the standard settings and such may show.

As for installing programs and such yes you can use the package manager.

Chilling_Silence
14-09-2012, 07:32 PM
You using Cinnamon or MATE?
In Cinnamon it's just a case of moving your mouse to the top-left corner of the window. I've just installed the MATE version myself this afternoon but haven't had a chance to play.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 07:43 PM
MATE

mikebartnz
14-09-2012, 07:44 PM
you also may want to familiarise yourself with the linux shell/bash thingy. I fully intend to... at some point. Similar to windows command line, but a bit more friendly if you've gotten nudged in the right direction, you've got a fair few more commands than the standard settings and such may show.
The Tab key is very useful within it too.

Nick G
14-09-2012, 09:04 PM
Another problem. When I'm in linux and flip my lid shut on my laptop, it goes to sleep (as it should). When I open up the lid, it won't wake up, and just shows a black screen. Any ideas?

Driftwood
14-09-2012, 09:15 PM
I been trying out the various Linux distros also.
You may find it helpful to check out the finux forums

http://forums.linuxmint.com/

KarameaDave
14-09-2012, 09:45 PM
You could Google it, I did, it is one of the many issues with Mint, apparently.
If you are going to survive in the Linux world I recommend you read the documentation that is embedded in Mint
You can then search the Mint Forum for answers to these common questions and issues
with a far greater chance of getting a solution than here where emphasis is on supporting Windows, mainly.




http://www.google.co.nz/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=suspend+to+ram+issues+linux+mint&oq=suspend+to+ram+issues+linux+mint&gs_l=hp.12...2176.17321.1.20145.32.30.0.2.2.0.582. 14079.3-3j18j9.30.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.igXtZi32JOE&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=7a36375cff9cb737&biw=1128&bih=475

johnd
14-09-2012, 10:14 PM
Why Linux? To be honest, Linux on the desktop/laptop is a dud.
Sorry - but what you have written is pure opinion - one could just as likely say "Why Windows? To be honest, Windows on the desktop/laptop is a dud". I have used Linux on my desktop since 1998 (single boot since 2001) and would never go back to Windows for my personal machines. I use and teach Linux and Windows server stuff at work and would maintain (for what it is worth) that I have less problems on my desktop than I would running Windows.

johnd
14-09-2012, 10:26 PM
And you do buy laptops, unless you steal them. And I would hope it came with something on it, For what you pay for them. And thats not free. Would be good if laptops came with no OS at all. They'll be a lot cheaper
Buying a laptop with no OS or with Linux is again an option after a long wait - see https://zareason.co.nz/home.php

Yorick
15-09-2012, 09:35 AM
How is Mint with restrictive license multimedia Codecs like WMV and so forth. Are they in there out of the box or do you need to install from non-free repositories. This is an issue with OpenSuSE, I buy mine from Fluendo because one fee covers pretty much every multimedia codec out there.

KarameaDave
15-09-2012, 09:51 AM
How is Mint with restrictive license multimedia Codecs like WMV and so forth. Are they in there out of the box or do you need to install from non-free repositories. This is an issue with OpenSuSE, I buy mine from Fluendo because one fee covers pretty much every multimedia codec out there.It has them installed.

Yorick
15-09-2012, 10:58 AM
I am speaking from experience Chill. Used Linux from 1994-2007 and then switched to OSX. Answer this, For a regular user what does Linux offer that Windows 7 doesn't. Dont tell me it is free, Windows is always bundled with laptops so in essence free.

Aaah I so love it when people make these "I am experienced" statements.

Firstly 2007 was five years ago, which in IT, as you would know is a lifetime, though perhaps it could be argued that in Windows not so much, that's just a couple of service packs. In Linux and especially desktop Linux, it is several lifetimes. KDE and Gnome (the two main Desktop environments) show the benefits of hard fought competition and are both far ahead of the opposition. Windows got Aero long after Compiz was common on the Linux Desktop. Multiple desktops are standard where windows only gets them through third party plugins and even then it's a shadow of the Linux method. Some Linux purists argue that the KDE-Gnome battle is just a battle for bloat, but then they just don't use either, they use the myriad of lightweight, but still powerful DEs such as LXDE or XFCE or Enlightenment. (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/237516/five_linux_desktops_that_arent_unity_or_gnome_3.ht ml) Windows as per usual forces hardware upgrades to suit the OS, Linux allows the user to adjust their Environment to suit the hardware.

Now as to what you can do in a Linux Distribution that you can't do in Windows 7. The answer is lots. I'll work from OpenSuSE because that's what I use and have done since way back not sure when really but at least ten years, old age and memory and all that... or perhaps because I just didn't care enough to be able to be precise but I went from Win 2K. Those that remember Win 2K will be able to predict WHY I went to linux. I went to Mandrake first, for the same reason I use OpenSuSE, I wasn't a CLI guru, I wanted to be able to totally administer my system from a GUI, which I can.

As to the question. OpenSUSE comes on double sided media, not necessary to download. It has 64 bit on one side and 32 bit on the other. So that's the first thing, I can take that media and install it on any number of machines. Can't do that with Win7, BUT the man says "this is about already installed" True, however what it means is I can upgrade to the latest Version or even a different distro (If you have home directory on a separate partition) and have all the other machines in my house/business matched with my new machine and I can do that when the next version comes out on and on. So that no matter how old my new hardware becomes I have the latest OS automatically rather than the hardware becoming obselete when the Next Big Thing comes along. Can't do that with Win7, well not legally.

OpenSuSE media allows you to set up as a server, all the software is there. Can't do that with Win7. The OpenSUSE install comes with over 4 gigs of software, productivity software, Image editors, Illustration software, Sound editors, Accounting packages IDEs and so and so on, all installed out of the box(or you can customise). In fact you can install OpenSuSE using a particular package set off the DVD and you can be doing high end productivity straight up, Word processing, Spreadsheets, Database, Graphic design, Multimedia, right up to web development or if you're a proper propellor head full on programming. Can't do that on a basic Win 7 install.

I have a Win 7 install, I have it for support as well as XP and Win 2K, the Win 2K install is to run my old Solidworks instance. These all run in Virtual machines on my OpenSuSE box, can't do that with a base Win7 install.

My problem with Win 7 is I can't do anything except browse the web, get email and type things in notepad, whereas in OpenSuSE I can do everything I need straight out of the box. Then when I want to do High end stuff invariably the software is on the repositiories with a simple secure download and install process. On top of all this I can as a non geek, if I wish, create my own distribution with all of the software I need or only the software I require by building it in SuSE Studio, can't do that for Win7.

People who buy machines that have Win 7 preinstalled or OSX on Mac are paying money to be used in the marketing campaigns that convince them to buy it! :D Weird circular thing innit. Linux distros do almost no marketing (other than the biggies of course RedHat, SUSE Enterprise, Oracle etc in the corporate space) except Ubuntu on the desktop and the spend is miniscule compared to Win and Mac and yet they have a substantial following. That says something.

Bobh
15-09-2012, 01:29 PM
Has anybody come across Zorin OS 6 linux. I downloaded it this morning and burnt the ISO to a DVD. I am currently reviewing it from the DVD and am replying to this thread using Zorin. I like it so far. It comes with all the goodies that allow me to view movies, use a word processor, get mail, etc. It appears that after you install it to your hard drive you can make it look and act like Windows 7, Vista or even a Mac if you prefer.

I might do a dual boot onto my laptop tomorrow. I think that the advice given on this thread will prove useful to me.

Read here (http://www.zorin-os.com/).

mikebartnz
15-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Has anybody come across Zorin OS 6 linux. I downloaded it this morning and burnt the ISO to a DVD. I am currently reviewing it from the DVD and am replying to this thread using Zorin.
Seems as it runs from a live DVD I will have to give it a try but being based on Ubuntu puts me off a little.

Driftwood
15-09-2012, 03:04 PM
Yep, currently have OS 6 on my Home Theatre Media System.
Was a system put together out of spare parts.
Possibly could have used xp pro, but with Linux you don't have to worry about COA's
Boy, this has turned into a long thread.

Bobh
15-09-2012, 04:10 PM
Seems as it runs from a live DVD I will have to give it a try but being based on Ubuntu puts me off a little.

I find it to be a bit different from Ubuntu although there must be some similarities. It does appear easier to work with but reviewing it from DVD does limit the features you can use. You are unable to save settings or download programmes unless you install it on a hard disk I guess.

Driftwood
15-09-2012, 04:50 PM
All you have to do is swap in a spare hard drive & install the os & away you go.
Currently writing this from Mint 13 Mate.

Hopper
15-09-2012, 05:22 PM
Or use a USB stick, slightly faster and saves settings!

Bobh
15-09-2012, 09:35 PM
I have managed to install Zorin OS 6 on a USB drive and am working from it now.

Nick G
16-09-2012, 07:54 AM
I have managed to install Zorin OS 6 on a USB drive and am working from it now.
Any good? I might give a cd with it a go.

jcr1
16-09-2012, 08:53 AM
For trying out Linux Distros;
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/
This works well (for me anyway - I have tonnes of flash drives)

jcr1
16-09-2012, 08:56 AM
Just had a look - Zorin is there

Chilling_Silence
16-09-2012, 09:10 AM
Yeah I've used YUMI to make a USB drive that has both the MATE and the Cinnamon LiveCD / installers on it. It's a handy little tool!

Nick G
16-09-2012, 09:14 AM
Yeah I've used YUMI to make a USB drive that has both the MATE and the Cinnamon LiveCD / installers on it. It's a handy little tool!
Random question here Chill - which do you prefer, cinnamon or MATE?

jcr1
16-09-2012, 09:17 AM
Yeah I've used YUMI to make a USB drive that has both the MATE and the Cinnamon LiveCD / installers on it. It's a handy little tool!

I like the admin type tools that are available as well. Linux is so good for an endless range of purposes.

Nick G
16-09-2012, 11:18 AM
What program do you all use to make a usb stick bootable - I've looked around and tried a few, but all have failed so far. And I'm out of DVD's :p

KarameaDave
16-09-2012, 11:26 AM
I format with the Hewlett Packard USB formatting tool,
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Hard-Disk-Utils/HP-USB-Disk-Storage-Format-Tool.shtml
then install with Unetbootin (Windows version)
http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/

Nick G
16-09-2012, 11:48 AM
I format with the Hewlett Packard USB formatting tool,
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Hard-Disk-Utils/HP-USB-Disk-Storage-Format-Tool.shtml
then install with Unetbootin (Windows version)
http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
Cheers. I'm just about to try another program, if that fails I'll give unetbootin a go.

Nick G
16-09-2012, 12:32 PM
Ok, I had the same problem with that one as I have with all the others. I put the iso on using the program, shut down the computer, start it up, set the bios settings to boot from the usb, save and exit.....and.....I'm always returned to the bios. Any ideas?

icow
16-09-2012, 12:39 PM
if you hit (f8?) a bunch of times does the USB stick show as a bootable device along with your HDD and CD drive?

Nick G
16-09-2012, 12:43 PM
if you hit (f8?) a bunch of times does the USB stick show as a bootable device along with your HDD and CD drive?
I'll have a look.

Nick G
16-09-2012, 01:36 PM
Done the f8, I got a list of what I wanted to do, no list of what I could boot from though.

mikebartnz
16-09-2012, 01:56 PM
Go into the Bios and see if you can choose to boot from the USB from there.

Nick G
16-09-2012, 03:26 PM
Go into the Bios and see if you can choose to boot from the USB from there.
Done that, the option is there. I set it as my only boot option, save changes, and exit. Instead of booting into the usb stick, it just goes straight to the bios.

icow
16-09-2012, 03:30 PM
Motherboard model number?

Nick G
16-09-2012, 03:41 PM
Copied off speccy
Manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
Model K53SD (CPU 1)
Version 1.0
Chipset Vendor Intel
Chipset Model Sandy Bridge
Chipset Revision 09
Southbridge Vendor Intel
Southbridge Model HM65
Southbridge Revision 05

Is that all the required info?

Nick G
16-09-2012, 03:50 PM
Additional info as well. I have booted from the same usb drive before, worked fine when I had the win8 rp on it.

icow
16-09-2012, 04:04 PM
Probably a formatting issue then.

Nick G
16-09-2012, 04:26 PM
Probably a formatting issue then.
ahh ok. Does it matter if it is fat32 or nfts when trying to boot from it?

mikebartnz
16-09-2012, 04:43 PM
ahh ok. Does it matter if it is fat32 or nfts when trying to boot from it?
Fat32

Nick G
16-09-2012, 05:02 PM
Fat32
Thanks for that - I have a hunch it is formatted nfts. I'm in linux at the moment, still getting to grips with it - how do I check what format my flash stick is from here?

Cheers

wainuitech
16-09-2012, 05:06 PM
Has anybody come across Zorin OS 6 linux.

Tried it on a workshop PC that runs Windows 7 or 8 easily -- What a heap of rubbish. Took ages to boot. So changed drives and installed it again. Still the same - waste of 1.3GB download.

How slow ?? well, hit the start button, went inside, fired up the Media centre which has far less power, running windows 8, that fully started, walked back out to the workshop and Zorin was still loading.

BTW, have run ubuntu 11.04 on the PC and that runs fine, just downloaded 12.04 and thats fine as well.

fred_fish
16-09-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm in linux at the moment
Then you should stop faffing about with windows usb tools and just dd the iso onto the stick.
Plug the usb in.
Type 'dmesg' to MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE CORRECT DEVICE NAME.
Then 'dd if=/path/to/iso of=/dev/sdb'
Boot from it.

Nick G
16-09-2012, 05:25 PM
Too late lol
booted into windows to chech how it was formatted, it was fat32 after all.

Nick G
17-09-2012, 09:01 AM
Well, I tried putting a different distro on my usb - linux mint cinnamon. It booted into a screen that asked what I wanted to do, when I selected start linux mint, I just got a blank screen. Whereas openSUSE just got me straight back to the bios.

On an unrelated note - Chill, is there any way to format a dvd once imgburn has put something on it? I've tried, has never worked.

gary67
17-09-2012, 09:06 AM
Well, I tried putting a different distro on my usb - linux mint cinnamon. It booted into a screen that asked what I wanted to do, when I selected start linux mint, I just got a blank screen. Whereas openSUSE just got me straight back to the bios.

On an unrelated note - Chill, is there any way to format a dvd once imgburn has put something on it? I've tried, has never worked.

You might if it is re-writable

KarameaDave
17-09-2012, 09:18 AM
Well, I tried putting a different distro on my usb - linux mint cinnamon. It booted into a screen that asked what I wanted to do, when I selected start linux mint, I just got a blank screen.

How long did you give it to boot? A blank screen is normal for a bit as it auto-detects hardware and loads drivers.

Nick G
17-09-2012, 09:47 AM
How long did you give it to boot? A blank screen is normal for a bit as it auto-detects hardware and loads drivers.Honestly couldn't give you an answer for that one, I don't know. I'll give it another go and leave it for ages :)

KarameaDave
17-09-2012, 10:12 AM
Cool, let us know the result! :)

Nick G
17-09-2012, 10:33 AM
Cool, let us know the result! :) Definitely doesn't boot. Tried cinnamon again, got to the option screen, selected the run cinnamon option, and waited. And waited. And waited. End result - it stays on the black screen. Another interesting thing to note - the activity led on the flash stick blinks from when it turn my computer on to when just after select the start cinnamon option and get the blank screen, when it stops showing any activity.

Agent_24
17-09-2012, 10:36 AM
is there any way to format a dvd once imgburn has put something on it? I've tried, has never worked.

You can always format and reuse DVD-RW or DVD+RW just like a CD-RW.

If you have DVD-R or DVD+R you cannot format and re-use them.

Nick G
17-09-2012, 10:42 AM
You can always format and reuse DVD-RW or DVD+RW just like a CD-RW.If you have DVD-R or DVD+R you cannot format and re-use them.My DVD'a are DVD+RW. I've tried formatting them, but it hasn't worked. I've always got an 'this operation could not be completed' message.

Nick G
17-09-2012, 10:51 AM
Tried another format. It said it was a success, but a quick check reveals that olny 2.48 gbs out of the 4.38gbs are free. imgburn will not write to it for that reason.

Bobh
17-09-2012, 11:02 AM
I have just placed Zorin OS 6 Linux on my HP Compaq laptop. When I installed it I took the option for installing along side Windows 8. After installation I rebooted the laptop and all I got was Windows 8 booting up as normal. I searched my hard drive and found no sign of Zorin in it. Eventually I realized that Zorin had installed onto a My Passport USB drive that was plugged into the laptop.

I have found that I can easily boot into Zorin linux by pressing 'Esc' before Windows 8 starts to boot up. Eventually a 'Startup Menu' appears. Options are listed. I choose F9 for Boot Device Options'. WD My Passport is chosen and after pressing 'Enter' Zorin loads in.

This works fine for me at the moment.

Agent_24
17-09-2012, 11:41 AM
Tried another format. It said it was a success, but a quick check reveals that olny 2.48 gbs out of the 4.38gbs are free. imgburn will not write to it for that reason.

Try erasing them with the Windows inbuilt burning program, does that work?

Nick G
21-09-2012, 08:12 AM
Try erasing them with the Windows inbuilt burning program, does that work?
Nope, sadly it doesn't work.
I've given up on that for now, will just get some more DVDs and do it then.

On a final note
I'm getting used to linux now, I much prefer it to windows. I got around the problem were it wouldn't wake up from suspended mode by changing the settings so when I shut the lid it went to a blank screen rather than suspend. I now only have one last question - I have noticed linux drains my battery much much faster than windows does. Has anyone else running linux noticed this?


Cheers, and thanks for all the linux help. :thumbs:

KarameaDave
21-09-2012, 09:02 AM
You could try the CPU scaling application Jupiter, which should be available through Synaptic.
It is supposed to be superior to the default one.
(you are still on Mint 13?)

Nick G
21-09-2012, 09:06 AM
You could try the CPU scaling application Jupiter, which should be available through Synaptic.
It is supposed to be superior to the default one.
(you are still on Mint 13?)
Yup, still on mint 13. Thanks, I'll give it a go.

KarameaDave
21-09-2012, 09:31 AM
Sorry Nick, I put you wrong, it's not in synaptic by default, the repository has to be added
check out the page here
http://www.webupd8.org/2010/07/jupiter-ubuntu-ppa-hardware-and-power.html
Or at Mint forums
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=109554
Once again sorry for that!

Erayd
21-09-2012, 10:09 AM
I now only have one last question - I have noticed linux drains my battery much much faster than windows does. Has anyone else running linux noticed this?This usually means the appropriate power management tools are either not installed or incorrectly configured. Most distros have reasonably sane defaults, so my guess is that they're simply not installed.

As KarameaDave says, CPU scaling is a good first step - however if you find this isn't enough, there are other things you can do too.

KarameaDave
21-09-2012, 10:29 AM
Tell me too! :D
Always keen to learn how to squeeze a bit of extra performance or power saving.

Nick G
21-09-2012, 10:53 AM
Sorry Nick, I put you wrong, it's not in synaptic by default, the repository has to be added
check out the page here
http://www.webupd8.org/2010/07/jupiter-ubuntu-ppa-hardware-and-power.html
Or at Mint forums
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=109554
Once again sorry for that!
No problems, I really appreciate the help :)

KarameaDave
21-09-2012, 10:58 AM
You're welcome, no doubt one day you will be able to help me :)

Nick G
21-09-2012, 11:23 AM
hopefully :)

Nick G
21-09-2012, 11:24 AM
This usually means the appropriate power management tools are either not installed or incorrectly configured. Most distros have reasonably sane defaults, so my guess is that they're simply not installed.

As KarameaDave says, CPU scaling is a good first step - however if you find this isn't enough, there are other things you can do too.
Ok, downloaded the applet, will have a look. Also have 300 updates to install :eek:

Agent_24
21-09-2012, 11:28 AM
Nope, sadly it doesn't work.
I've given up on that for now, will just get some more DVDs and do it then.

Very strange. What is your model of DVD writer and what DVDs are you using?

fred_fish
21-09-2012, 12:35 PM
Powertop (http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/) is a handy app.
It's in the debian repo's but no idea about Mint.

KarameaDave
21-09-2012, 01:02 PM
I have installed Jupiter, along with its wee applet for eeepc( on my eeepc 1201n)
Now I can change the CPU power setting usung the Fn and space bar...just like in That Other OS
Yay!

Nick G
21-09-2012, 01:26 PM
I installed Jupiter as well, but it won't open :confused:

KarameaDave
21-09-2012, 02:49 PM
Have you rebooted?
It should be in the notification area, it looks like a lighting bolt.
Just click on it.

Nick G
21-09-2012, 04:09 PM
Have you rebooted?
It should be in the notification area, it looks like a lighting bolt.
Just click on it.
Ah, no, I haven't rebooted. Will now though :)

Nick G
21-09-2012, 04:45 PM
Very strange. What is your model of DVD writer and what DVDs are you using?
My dvd writer is a Slimtype DVD A DS8A8SH, and I am using dvd + rw.

Nick G
21-09-2012, 07:17 PM
Well, continuing my linux saga
I went to reboot after installing jupiter, shut down, went to restart, only to find I can no longer boot into linux. I can select linux from the windows bootloader, but instead of getting the grub boot option menu, I just get a blank screen with what looks like a flashing underscore or hyphen in the top left corner. I've left it for 10+ minutes, but no change. Windows works just fine.

KarameaDave
21-09-2012, 10:24 PM
Oh bugger, I don't think I can help you with that!
I use GRUB and no probs.
Maybe try redoing the easyBCD thingy?

Chilling_Silence
22-09-2012, 02:42 AM
Yeah I'm gonna pass on that one too, much easier to use GRUB (GRand Unified Bootloader) rather than the windows one :-/

Agent_24
22-09-2012, 11:05 AM
My dvd writer is a Slimtype DVD A DS8A8SH, and I am using dvd + rw.

Looks like a rebranded Lite-on. Perhaps it has problems with the media you're using, you might be able to find a firmware update from your PC\Laptop maker, if it's a compatibility problem.

KarameaDave
23-09-2012, 10:06 AM
Nick, any progress?
You could boot from the Linux DVD
and reinstall grub from there you know?
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/245
this will remove bcd and put GRUB in its place but you should still be able to boot into Windows as well.
If you can't then repairing the bcd bootloader is easy enough.
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/32523/how-to-manually-repair-windows-7-boot-loader-problems/

Nick G
23-09-2012, 04:14 PM
Nick, any progress?
You could boot from the Linux DVD
and reinstall grub from there you know?
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/245
this will remove bcd and put GRUB in its place but you should still be able to boot into Windows as well.
If you can't then repairing the bcd bootloader is easy enough.
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/32523/how-to-manually-repair-windows-7-boot-loader-problems/
I've been tramping this weekend, so haven't tackled it again :)
Thanks, I'll have a look and reinstall grub.

KarameaDave
23-09-2012, 06:29 PM
Where did you go tramping?
If you find yourself on South Terrace (Karamea) stop in for a cuppa!

Nick G
23-09-2012, 06:34 PM
Where did you go tramping?
If you find yourself on South Terrace (Karamea) stop in for a cuppa!
Warfedale track, went up the track yesterday, stayed at the doc hut, then took the Mt. Oxford route back. If I ever go to Karamea I'll take you up on the offer :)

Now, time to have a go at reloading grub......

KarameaDave
23-09-2012, 06:38 PM
Good luck.
That's a lovely area, used to go wandering around Coopers creek, Kowhai bush and Lake Sumner
when I was younger (lived in Springfield back then) The Beech (Notofagus) forest particularly nice.

Myth
23-09-2012, 07:39 PM
Nick; you are in luck.. I had this problem just this week (thanks to losing a harddrive and having to buy a new one and installing debian)

I haven't dual booted in years, but when I did last dual-boot, grub should be the first thing you see. Maybe with Windows 7 this has changed...
If grub is not on the harddrive where the computer is looking, the computer goes into a dormant state (the flashing cursor).

In my case, the fix was thus:

I had to reset BIOS to default settings as something went amiss - possibly powercut - and the BIOS was seeing the harddrives in the wrong order. A reset to defaults (and then change first boot to CD again) and everything was fine ... even although the install CD was seeing things correctly and installing grub and debian to sda as it should have. When the computer rebooted, everything was fine.

I shall be keeping an eye on this computer, hopefully it was just a glitch and is not the indications of a mobo on its way out...

Nick G
24-09-2012, 10:50 AM
Nick, any progress?
You could boot from the Linux DVD
and reinstall grub from there you know?
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/245
this will remove bcd and put GRUB in its place but you should still be able to boot into Windows as well.
If you can't then repairing the bcd bootloader is easy enough.
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/32523/how-to-manually-repair-windows-7-boot-loader-problems/
Progress - I guess.
I went through those steps, rebooted, and got the same thing as before. I've now decided just to reinstall linux mint from scratch, but first have another question. I have a couple of docs on my mint partition I hadn't backed up, is it possible to get those off? Windows doesn't see the partition, and I've googled myself to death here.

Yorick
24-09-2012, 11:06 AM
Progress - I guess.
I went through those steps, rebooted, and got the same thing as before. I've now decided just to reinstall linux mint from scratch, but first have another question. I have a couple of docs on my mint partition I hadn't backed up, is it possible to get those off? Windows doesn't see the partition, and I've googled myself to death here.

Hi Nick,

Did you put your /home directory on a separate partition to /, if you did, then your documents are safe, just do the reinstall but only format the / partition. When you set up the first user during install it will recognise that /home directory assigned to a user of the same name and simply prompt to update permissions and all will be good.

Cheers
Yo

Nick G
24-09-2012, 11:18 AM
Hi Nick,

Did you put your /home directory on a separate partition to /, if you did, then your documents are safe, just do the reinstall but only format the / partition. When you set up the first user during install it will recognise that /home directory assigned to a user of the same name and simply prompt to update permissions and all will be good.

Cheers
Yo
Unfortunately not. I just made a /swap and a /.

Driftwood
24-09-2012, 11:25 AM
Wont it boot off a linux cd & run in trial mode.
Then you should be able to access the hard drive.

Agent_24
24-09-2012, 11:38 AM
Wont it boot off a linux cd & run in trial mode.
Then you should be able to access the hard drive.

This.

Nick G
24-09-2012, 11:46 AM
Wont it boot off a linux cd & run in trial mode.
Then you should be able to access the hard drive.
That's what I thought, but I must be missing something. I booted off a linux cd, but could only find my windows stuff, not my linux stuff. Will try again.

Yorick
24-09-2012, 12:13 PM
Unfortunately not. I just made a /swap and a /.

Oops, darn it, I've noticed the Ubuntu derivatives doing this a lot these days. From a security point of view I like to have a /home partition. It means that your root partition can get completely screwed but the valuable stuff is still intact. It also means that if you get tired of one distro you can install another over the top of your root directory without killing all your important stuff and all linux distros recognise /home and will look for the user directory in there. We sometimes suffer from one particular Windows hangover: That the Operating system is important/valuable. It isn't. The Linux standard recognises that the most valuable stuff is the users content and keeps it separate in it's own partition, the OS is a simply a tool to allow you to interact with your content.

Any way to the issue at hand, you have an openSUSE DVD on hand? Run it as KDE live, put in a USB drive, open Dolphin file manager, normally Dolphin will display "Home" in the left hand pane and you should be able to copy your docs to the USB.

Cheers
Yo

Nick G
24-09-2012, 12:26 PM
Oops, darn it, I've noticed the Ubuntu derivatives doing this a lot these days. From a security point of view I like to have a /home partition. It means that your root partition can get completely screwed but the valuable stuff is still intact. It also means that if you get tired of one distro you can install another over the top of your root directory without killing all your important stuff and all linux distros recognise /home and will look for the user directory in there. We sometimes suffer from one particular Windows hangover: That the Operating system is important/valuable. It isn't. The Linux standard recognises that the most valuable stuff is the users content and keeps it separate in it's own partition, the OS is a simply a tool to allow you to interact with your content.

Any way to the issue at hand, you have an openSUSE DVD on hand? Run it as KDE live, put in a USB drive, open Dolphin file manager, normally Dolphin will display "Home" in the left hand pane and you should be able to copy your docs to the USB.

Cheers
Yo
Was actually burning one just as this post appeared :)
Will do, thanks.
Once I get those off I'll be making a /home directory lol.

tmrafi
24-09-2012, 12:52 PM
Progress - I guess.
I went through those steps, rebooted, and got the same thing as before. I've now decided just to reinstall linux mint from scratch, but first have another question. I have a couple of docs on my mint partition I hadn't backed up, is it possible to get those off? Windows doesn't see the partition, and I've googled myself to death here.
Just install Disk Internals Linux Reader (http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/) in your Windows and you can read (not write) your Linux partitions and copy the data to Windows.
Apart from EXT2/3/4 and ReiserFS filesystems of Linux, it will also read UFS (FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc) and HFS (Mac)

Nick G
24-09-2012, 01:17 PM
Just install Disk Internals Linux Reader (http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/) in your Windows and you can read (not write) your Linux partitions and copy the data to Windows.
Apart from EXT2/3/4 and ReiserFS filesystems of Linux, it will also read UFS (FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc) and HFS (Mac)
Cool! Thanks :)

Yorick
24-09-2012, 01:58 PM
Was actually burning one just as this post appeared :)
Will do, thanks.
Once I get those off I'll be making a /home directory lol.

:D Good plan.
Root directory only needs to be 25 gig, less if you're squeezed for space, probably 10 gigs minimum for a modern distro.

Swap used to be twice RAM but these days of cheap memory, not so much. On a desktop (unless you're using it to run a battery of thin clients) you'll rarely use more than 2 gigs so generally if your Ram is 2 gb or more your swap should be same size as Ram as that allows the system to write the whole ram to swap during hibernation. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq

/home the rest of the drive space

Cheers
Yo

Nick G
24-09-2012, 05:00 PM
Ok, got the docs off my mint partition.'
Am setting up now to reinstall, just want to check I have this right. I should convert my / partition to a /home and a /root, I get that. Just checking here, all programs I install goon the /home, not the /root? So the /root is just for the linux os itself?

Cheers

Yorick
24-09-2012, 05:52 PM
Ok, got the docs off my mint partition.'
Am setting up now to reinstall, just want to check I have this right. I should convert my / partition to a /home and a /root, I get that. Just checking here, all programs I install goon the /home, not the /root? So the /root is just for the linux os itself?

Cheers

OK, sda1 should be your windows partition, you should have probably an extended partition though you don't need it, sda1 should be showing as ntfs and your swap should show as "swap". That will either be sda2 or sda5 if have used an extended partition. Your old root partition either sda3 or sda6 will show as EXT3 or 4.

Delete that partition so you have sda1 - NTFS. Sda2(?) - Swap or sda2 extended and blank space or delete the extended partition. Create a new primary partition in the blank space. Make it around 20 or so gigs and EXT 4. Mount point for this partition will be /

Format the rest of the blank space as EXT 4 and mount this as /home

Programmes are installed in one of two directories, either /usr or /opt. The Linux standard is: All the important stuff, in other words the Users content, goes in /home all the software and configuration files go in /. The user's personal settings for each application are kept in hidden files in the /home/(whatever the username is) which is created every time you add a user. Those files are prefixed with a " . ", if you go "Show Hidden Files" you'll see a lot of files pop up in your home directory with dots in front. The directory labelled /root is the administrators home directory which doesn't get used much, if at all.

Nick G
24-09-2012, 06:59 PM
Ok, I formatted it, now have 228gb of space for linux.
I'm not going to worry about a /root partition, I'll just chuck /root on my /. But I will make a /home partition.
So, space wise, how best to allocate my 228gb?

Myth
24-09-2012, 08:30 PM
Just to give you an idea of what is used on a new-ish install:

/dev/sda2 3.4G /
/dev/sda1 31M /boot

This is a week old install of debian stable. swap is not listed (on this drive 4GB)

In your case, I would suggest:

/ 10-15 GB
swap 2GB
/home ... the rest

Nick G
24-09-2012, 08:35 PM
Just to give you an idea of what is used on a new-ish install:

/dev/sda2 3.4G /
/dev/sda1 31M /boot

This is a week old install of debian stable. swap is not listed (on this drive 4GB)

In your case, I would suggest:

/ 10-15 GB
swap 2GB
/home ... the rest
Cheers, will do. I'll probably give my / 20gb, a nice round number lol.

Nick G
24-09-2012, 08:53 PM
Ok, so I set up my partitions, am installing now. I take it a custom install option is what I want to dual boot? I'm trying opensuse this time.

Yorick
24-09-2012, 11:24 PM
Ok, so I set up my partitions, am installing now. I take it a custom install option is what I want to dual boot? I'm trying opensuse this time.

With OpenSUSE the defaults are pretty much bang on, just use the suggestion, it figures the windows partition and does all the rest and installs grub, you can just let it do it's thing. However, custom install works as well if you want to be hands on.

Nick G
25-09-2012, 11:58 AM
Right, I've installed it, all works fine.
Cheers guys

sent from OpenSUSE

Yorick
25-09-2012, 12:47 PM
Just be aware that openSUSE by default does not come preloaded with all the video codecs that have licensing issues: MP3, MP4, AVI, WMV, etc. Also flash is not installed by default for the same reason. Not sure why this is, probably because SUSE's corporate parent, Novell, want to keep their arses covered against legal attacks.

The easiest way is to install VLC media player, that will cover the multimedia stuff. However VLC is not in the default repositories, it's in what is called a Community repository. You'll have to add those in YAST.

Just go to YAST > Software > Software repositories. The default repos will come up in the Configured Software Repositories window, click "Add" and in the "Media Type" window that opens, click "Community Repositories" click next and sit back and let it do it's thing. There will be a number of license things you'll have to agree to as it updates the software list, that cover those proprietary licenses. (You only have to do this once) Once it's all finished, you'll have a huge list of software available including proprietary stuff. If you have a big enough data cap there are even a whole pile of high end games.


Graphics drivers are a must if you want to be able to use all the effects in Gnome or KDE desktops, if you're lucky your laptop has an Intel GPU in which case all the drivers are installed. ATI and Nvidia however, need to be installed. Nvidia drivers are a particular pain in the butt, hence Linus Torvalds "F**k you, Nvidia" comment at a conference a few months back. However if you like flashy effects on your desktop then it's probably worth the effort. if not, then the default Nouveau drivers will be perfectly adequate.

Flash will have to be installed as well. Just go to YAST > software management > Search Tab. Type in: "Flash" then click "Search" check the box next to "Adobe Flash Player", go back the Search box tye in "VLC", check the box next to vlc in the search results window. Then simply go "accept" a window will popup and say something like "These dependencies need to be installed" click OK and it will download and install everything automagically.

Cheers
Yo

Nick G
25-09-2012, 01:10 PM
Ok, thanks Yorick.
I'll see if I can be bothered getting the graphics drivers ;)

Driftwood
25-09-2012, 07:38 PM
Glad to hear you finally nailed it.
What a marathon.

mikebartnz
25-09-2012, 08:22 PM
Just install Disk Internals Linux Reader (http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/) in your Windows and you can read (not write) your Linux partitions and copy the data to Windows.
Apart from EXT2/3/4 and ReiserFS filesystems of Linux, it will also read UFS (FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc) and HFS (Mac)
If it doesn't do EXT2/3/4 it is about as useful as tits on a bull.

Erayd
25-09-2012, 08:47 PM
If it doesn't do EXT2/3/4 it is about as useful as tits on a bull.His post says that it does...

sam m
25-09-2012, 09:06 PM
Wow, and I thought this was going to be tough.

mikebartnz
25-09-2012, 09:24 PM
His post says that it does...
I think I may have misread his post. He would have been better off using "as well as" instead of "apart".

Nick G
25-09-2012, 09:31 PM
Glad to hear you finally nailed it.
What a marathon.
I'll say! Still, I've learned a lot, tried two distros of linux, picked my favourite, and now have enough knowledge and confidence to try any I feel like. I think I won the marathon ;)

:thanks to all who've helped me out on this thread, you've been great guys :)

Yorick
25-09-2012, 10:44 PM
Ok so now you can have a bit of fun! :)

Distro wars are common, but the real war is between Desktop Environments!

So which one did you go for during install, Gnome or KDE? You can if you wish put the DVD back in the drive, pop into YAST > Software > Sotware management >RPM Groups > system-GUI There is Gnome, KDE, LXDE, XFCE, Windowmaker, themes, icon sets all sorts of stuff. And software to do everything from text editors to the software to set up your own web-server. And that's just on the DVD, once all the repositories are lined up there are more. Have fun! :)

Cheers
Yo

Nick G
26-09-2012, 08:32 AM
I'm running Gnome, might have a play around with some others later.
:)

Yorick
26-09-2012, 09:44 AM
They're all pretty damn good these days just different ideas about how to do things. I think the way to sum them up (although others are encouraged to disagree :) ) is:

KDE is shiney and infinitely adjustable and their file manager (dolphin) is a work of art and Konqueror is brilliant as a file manager when you have websites with ftp. Just treats your ftp as another file

Gnome assumes a lot about the way you want to operate, so it's a lot like Windows and Mac in that attitude but it just works for the most part. The Gnome file manager is getting better but it's still not a patch on Dolphin. As a consequence I use Dolphin when I'm in gnome in any case, but I like the way that Gnome handles desktop effects, better than KDE IMHO.

LXDE and XFCE sit on your machine very lightly, lightning fast and very usable but without the eyecandy that KDE and Gnome do so well. Both use a windows familiar environment

Windowmaker is the slightly cracked member of the family :) Nothing looks familiar, theming is out there on the ragged edge but from a user perspective once you get used to the different way of doing things it makes the speed of all the others seem glacial. Very Goth, I love it.

Of course then there is Fluxbox, Enlightenment, BlackBox, FVWM and probably several hundred that I haven't come across. It is very easy to kill a lot of hours just playing. :D

Rod J
27-09-2012, 03:52 PM
They're all pretty damn good these days just different ideas about how to do things. I think the way to sum them up (although others are encouraged to disagree :) ) is:

KDE is shiney and infinitely adjustable and their file manager (dolphin) is a work of art and Konqueror is brilliant as a file manager when you have websites with ftp. Just treats your ftp as another file

Gnome assumes a lot about the way you want to operate, so it's a lot like Windows and Mac in that attitude but it just works for the most part. The Gnome file manager is getting better but it's still not a patch on Dolphin. As a consequence I use Dolphin when I'm in gnome in any case, but I like the way that Gnome handles desktop effects, better than KDE IMHO.


I agree with your comments regarding KDE. I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 (Gnome) to Kubuntu 12.04 (KDE) a few months ago and I'm very impressed with KDE. Indeed Dolphin is a much more polished file manager. I was never happy with Nautilus in Gnome. I actually use Krusader now though almost exclusively in Kubuntu. I like to attach comments to many files and could never do this reliably in Ubuntu but can in Kubuntu (although the nepomuk repository is as complex as anything I've seen elsewhere, I wish the developers would keep in mind the old saying: KISS).

The one thing about KDE that does seem to be lacking is mouse key shortcuts. In Ubuntu I could hold down the Meta (Windows) key and use the mouse scroll wheel to zoom the desktop (a very intuitive method I think). I've never been able to achieve this in Kubuntu (I have to use Meta++ on the keyboard then move the mouse to where I want to magnify, then Meta+- to revert to normal. Very clumsy in comparison I feel).

Nick G
27-09-2012, 04:36 PM
Yep, I'm loving the shortcuts as well, particularly the 'press the windows key to bring up thumbnails of all open apps'.

Yorick
27-09-2012, 05:31 PM
Yep, I'm loving the shortcuts as well, particularly the 'press the windows key to bring up thumbnails of all open apps'.

The KDE Desktop does that by putting your mouse cursor in the top left of the screen. If you have "Desktop Effects" switched on in Gnome, try Ctrl+Alt+ Down arrow and you'll begin to see why multiple desktops are so handy.

I just got all keen again and I've installed Enlightenment, I'm about to give it a try

You're probably just about getting to the point of wondering why Windows is so popular when it is so far behind. :)

Nick G
27-09-2012, 06:17 PM
The KDE Desktop does that by putting your mouse cursor in the top left of the screen. If you have "Desktop Effects" switched on in Gnome, try Ctrl+Alt+ Down arrow and you'll begin to see why multiple desktops are so handy.

I just got all keen again and I've installed Enlightenment, I'm about to give it a try

You're probably just about getting to the point of wondering why Windows is so popular when it is so far behind. :)
Ok, maybe I'm using KDE then, I used the top left cursor before realising the start button did the same thing. Could have sworn I was in GNOME though - ah well.
I must admit I am wondering why people use windows. Dolphin is a very nice file manager, the top left corner to bring up open windows + favourites, with an option to bring up all apps is brilliant. And installing software, which was my main concern, is dead simple.

And to cap it all, even if I have to reinstall linux for some reason my docs are still there. I haven't noticed a substantial power drain with OpenSUSE like I did with Linux Mint either. Took a while to get all the community repositories, but definitely worth the effort. I'm loving OpenSUSE :)

If I have time in the school holidays, I'll show off to my family and put lubuntu on my old laptop :)

Yorick
27-09-2012, 06:53 PM
OK so Enlightenment not so enlightening, Windowmaker does the same with more style, posting this from LXDE which is, I think, the easiest of the DEs to get used to if you're shifting from Windows. Grease lightning fast, a bit like Win2K on a quadcore box with many gigs of Ram. Has a similar feel to Win2K as well, simple stripped back and no nonsense, although Compiz does work and so you can have desktop effects if you feel the need. Uses the Gnome Compiz manager so the keyboard shortcuts are the same as Gnome. Very cool, XFCE used to be my favorite of the lightweight desktops, I might have to revisit that.

KarameaDave
27-09-2012, 07:32 PM
Wondering why people continue using Windows?
If you strike a few of the issues others have, with the multiplicity of linii, you would gain an insight.
At least, when you buy a computer with M$ finest you will not have to trawl the internet in order to get
your frigging hardware working, I have been fu**arsing about for several weeks in order to get a stable
usable linux mint on my netbook.
Getting close but still a couple of issues.
THE WEAKNESS with Linux is the crazy dilution of effort, as soon as 2 developers disagree, you have 2 new Linux distros and neither will be any better.
For all that I still keep trying, stupid much?
Just my two cents worth.

Nick G
27-09-2012, 07:42 PM
Wondering why people continue using Windows?
If you strike a few of the issues others have, with the multiplicity of linii, you would gain an insight.
At least, when you buy a computer with M$ finest you will not have to trawl the internet in order to get
your frigging hardware working, I have been fu**arsing about for several weeks in order to get a stable
usable linux mint on my netbook.
Getting close but still a couple of issues.
THE WEAKNESS with Linux is the crazy dilution of effort, as soon as 2 developers disagree, you have 2 new Linux distros and neither will be any better.
For all that I still keep trying, stupid much?
Just my two cents worth.
Nah, not stupid. Sometimes then end result is worth the effort. Just curious here, what issues are you having with mint? Just interesting to see the flip side of the coin.

Agent_24
27-09-2012, 07:46 PM
While I don't disagree that Linux can be a pain at times, I can't agree that in Windows you do not have to trawl the internet to get hardware working!
And even when you do, then of course you upgrade Windows and find you can't get new drivers etc.


At least in Linux, once someone writes a non-proprietary driver for something, it sticks around.

pcuser42
27-09-2012, 07:47 PM
I can't agree that in Windows you do not have to trawl the internet to get hardware working!

What's worse is trying almost everything to try and get a device working, then realise it came loose when you were last working inside the PC. :o

KarameaDave
27-09-2012, 07:58 PM
O.K. Network manager drops the WIFI every 10 minutes, EVERY 10 minutes, then it fails to reconnect.
The only fix is to uninstall it and install WICD, then my T-stick won't work.
It took a week to find out how enable the 3d desktop effects that were a one click task in Mint 10
It is noticeably slower booting, needs a custom power manager to get 3/4 of the battery life when in Windows
It still takes twice as long to load a webpage as Windows (Firefox 15.01 in both with identical profile)
I am not a great fan of Windows but to me it is working better overall.
The opposite of the situation 4 years ago when if I wanted performance and ease of use I booted Mint.

Once again just my 2 cents worth.
Good luck.