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The Error Guy
24-07-2012, 11:09 PM
Just been talking to my sister, she says that iPhoto has apparently deleted all her photo's (years worth)

Here's what she had to say:

" i plugged in my ipod to import a photo and iphoto autimatically popped up with a message iphoto needs a new photo library create new or choose from old and there were none available to choose from there wasn't a list so i clicked create new and then it said choose a name. and it came up with the name iphoto_2 Library or something like that so i clicked OK and it was empty and there was nothing there. no photos . so i looked for my old one by opening iphoto and it as gone"

I checked her photos folder over a very laggy Teamviewer connection (had to route it through TOR :p) and it seems the iPhoto library file has gone. There is no mention of her images as far as I can tell. The new library_2 is there but no mention of any other libraries as far as I know (not exactly an expert on iPhoto) I quick google doesn't bring up anything that seems to relate to a missing Library, they are more targeted at currupt XML's or corrupt libraries.


Anyone have a clue of what might have happened here? As far as I know iPhoto stores pics in an iPhoto library file, is this true? if so it seems awfully risky that something could happen to it damaging the contents?

Anyway, thank's for any leads on this, she's using a Macbook with no clue on iPhoto or OSX version. It's a 2011 model though.

TEG

fred_fish
24-07-2012, 11:44 PM
I don't know, but one would think that the 'iphoto library file' would simply be the database of metadata and file locations to where the pics are actually stored as separate original pic files (as per itunes with music). If not, it is a piss poor design.

Also a downfall of the UI being so abstracted from the actual process that the user has no idea where their stuff is ... :groan:

icow
25-07-2012, 12:47 AM
iPhoto stores photos In the pictures folder under IPhoto library. It keeps separate folders inside iPhoto library for different camera "rolls" usually roll1 is equivalent to the first lot of imported photos roll2 being the second and so on. There is also a folder for unedited originals somewhere in there as well. Have you checked the trash/recycling bin? All of apple's "I" software seems to like to just dump files there instead of actually deleting them.

Agent_24
25-07-2012, 04:03 AM
Also a downfall of the UI being so abstracted from the actual process that the user has no idea where their stuff is ... :groan:

That is something that seems to be getting continually worse, and users getting stupider as a result.

Ask someone where their files are and they load up some media library program. Then you have to explain the difference between the actual files and the database entries in the program... or even better, they delete the files on their hard drive because "there's already a copy in the library"

The Error Guy
25-07-2012, 09:03 AM
There is nothing in the subfolders of Photo's (as far as I can tell) other than .xml's

I'll have a look friday when I get home. Team viewer was far too slow to really do anything. Knowing the user, it's almost definitely going to be a user problem somewhere.


Her first response was "Should I take it to an apple store?" I know apple can be a tad more helpful with their novice customer support but i'm guessing they'll laugh, charge an inspection fee, laugh some more and say your life is ruined.

I'll keep you posted.

Nick G
25-07-2012, 10:11 AM
. Knowing the user, it's almost definitely going to be a user problem somewhere.

.

So true :)
Applies to most anything that goes wrong with my families desktop as well ;)

linw
26-07-2012, 03:21 PM
That is something that seems to be getting continually worse, and users getting stupider as a result.

Ask someone where their files are and they load up some media library program. Then you have to explain the difference between the actual files and the database entries in the program... or even better, they delete the files on their hard drive because "there's already a copy in the library"
Oh, yes, ain't that the truth. It's a big exercise getting data from an old comp to a new one as you have to look everywhere for files.

One business I reluctantly helped (malware infections) had their main business files about 6 levels deep under a temp folder!! Just as well I imaged the comp as I deleted all temp folders!

No idea how this ignorance can be fixed but it can be a real problem.

Agent_24
26-07-2012, 03:24 PM
Perhaps nobody teaches the importance of sensible folder structures these days?

The Error Guy
28-07-2012, 12:01 AM
Wow, Apple, what a joke.

So iPhoto uses an abstract method that distances the user so far from what is going on they have no blinking clue what the hell is actually happening. Images are imported into a database (called a library) which is an apple-esque package (.pgk? file type is in meta not extensions) This database is filled with all your pics ever imported in one easy to access (and delete) package which is stored in the users "photos" folder. This one is 20gb in size. The package can only be read with apple API's or iPhoto (according to their site).

It seems the user thinks that if it's in iPhoto its there forever, delete everything else... that included the library (no warning or anything to delete this ambiguous 20GB space hogging file) so away it goes, the user is lucky that apple has made them so dumb they dont know how to empty trash. Library is recovered. Unfortunately the library is corrupt. No problem, make a copy and let apple solve. 5 mins later and apple has corrupted the library further. Fails to read. Damn.

Good thing I have a spare copy!! Now apparently I can only open with fruity API's... never mind them, off to windows where I can open the package, inject a clean library and albumdata XML reconstructed (cut and paste, hit and miss style) from the corrupted library and get it working!

5 mins later, working library. Happy user. Frustrated me (because finder doesn't open with fruity keys + E... cannot be stuffed finding equivilent.


To be honest I never really use apply machines. Know my way around like your average bum, can problem solve/research to semi advanced level but i'm no pro. I always thought I never liked them because I never really use them but I found even the simplest task frustrating as hell.

The whole iPhoto debacle was crazy dumb (a database library package... pfft) and whole OS seemed silly.


Ayway, that's my short story long and also my cool story of the day!! next time some ones socks go missing iphoto probably databased, check the trash!!

//Rant

zqwerty
28-07-2012, 04:43 AM
OS9 was a stinker, haven't really used OS10 enough to comment.

Agent_24
28-07-2012, 11:31 AM
Wow, Apple, what a joke.

So iPhoto uses an abstract method that distances the user so far from what is going on they have no blinking clue what the hell is actually happening. Images are imported into a database (called a library) which is an apple-esque package (.pgk? file type is in meta not extensions) This database is filled with all your pics ever imported in one easy to access (and delete) package which is stored in the users "photos" folder. This one is 20gb in size. The package can only be read with apple API's or iPhoto (according to their site).

Wow. That is retarded.


It seems the user thinks that if it's in iPhoto its there forever, delete everything else... that included the library (no warning or anything to delete this ambiguous 20GB space hogging file) so away it goes,

Yep, told you that's what they do. They don't understand the difference between the two! But with a program like that, how would they?

plod
28-07-2012, 06:28 PM
How does windows handle it, I thought their were located in my pictures?

plod
29-07-2012, 02:06 PM
Wow, Apple, what a joke.

So iPhoto uses an abstract method that distances the user so far from what is going on they have no blinking clue what the hell is actually happening. Images are imported into a database (called a library) which is an apple-esque package (.pgk? file type is in meta not extensions) This database is filled with all your pics ever imported in one easy to access (and delete) package which is stored in the users "photos" folder. This one is 20gb in size. The package can only be read with apple API's or iPhoto (according to their site).

It seems the user thinks that if it's in iPhoto its there forever, delete everything else... that included the library (no warning or anything to delete this ambiguous 20GB space hogging file) so away it goes, the user is lucky that apple has made them so dumb they dont know how to empty trash. Library is recovered. Unfortunately the library is corrupt. No problem, make a copy and let apple solve. 5 mins later and apple has corrupted the library further. Fails to read. Damn.

Good thing I have a spare copy!! Now apparently I can only open with fruity API's... never mind them, off to windows where I can open the package, inject a clean library and albumdata XML reconstructed (cut and paste, hit and miss style) from the corrupted library and get it working!

5 mins later, working library. Happy user. Frustrated me (because finder doesn't open with fruity keys + E... cannot be stuffed finding equivilent.


To be honest I never really use apply machines. Know my way around like your average bum, can problem solve/research to semi advanced level but i'm no pro. I always thought I never liked them because I never really use them but I found even the simplest task frustrating as hell.

The whole iPhoto debacle was crazy dumb (a database library package... pfft) and whole OS seemed silly.


Ayway, that's my short story long and also my cool story of the day!! next time some ones socks go missing iphoto probably databased, check the trash!!

//RantI will also point out that this is where MS metro is heading, taking the user away from the file structure.

The Error Guy
29-07-2012, 02:58 PM
Unfortunately it is where apps are heading. In a tablet/smartphone that's OK, less is better when on the move but I think on a desktop client keeping the user in knowledge of the process is very important. W8 and metro will be an interesting kettle of fish indeed.

The thing that got me was how the library file is "just there" with no way of average joe user actually knowing what it was for. I'm surprised there is no warning that deleting the library package will delete photos.

Windows photo gallery imports photos to the users photo folder (or wherever is specified to import) All management is done by using the existing directory structure. It's really just like a photo orientated version of explorer. To be honest it's not as nice to look at and maybe use as iPhoto (I don't use iPhoto much and have only recently started to use Windows Live photo Gallery) but it does mean that you can find photos without using the app and on other machines (such as over a network/backup HDD/Flash drive) as file and directory structure are maintained across the experience.

Every app has its pros and cons, I guess I only really dig deep with apple when others have problems which taints my experience significantly. It's not that bad but little things like that stun me a little, esp as my general experiance with apple have been simplicity and ease of function. The result is often cotton wooling the user which stops things like this from happening.

Hopefully this gets fixed soon so others don't fall into the same trap and hopefully future versions of Win Photo Gallery get a wee facelift.

plod
29-07-2012, 03:16 PM
The pictures folder in the finder side bar is a shortcut you can also get to it through the file structure. I still don't see what is different to how windows handle this currently

The Error Guy
29-07-2012, 04:04 PM
indeed, which is similar to the libraries function in win7. The problem I have is iPhoto's library package. Everything else can probably be put down to me having a rant and the fruity company, nothing is actually wrong with them. It's more than likely me using it wrong (or not being used to it and trying to do it wrong, like trying to use bash and DOS)

plod
29-07-2012, 04:16 PM
So it acts the same as windows, but it's apple so it's retarted, I can open photos in iPhoto from the preview app which is the same as explorer. So I will put down your sisters experience down to ignorance and yours down to arrogance

icow
29-07-2012, 07:41 PM
I can't say I've ever seen iphoto bundle an entire album into one file. Everytime I've used it all the photos just end up in some generic folder structure.