PDA

View Full Version : Pre School eduacation.



mzee
05-07-2012, 10:32 AM
I find that the complaints about the lack of pre school education are ridiculous!
It is the parents responsibility to teach their children to read and write. I was taught by my Mother, and my kids were taught by my wife and I, they could read and write by the time they went to school.

Of course, if the parents are illiterate then you have a problem. Maybe breeding permits should be introduced, some of the conditions being that the parents are literate, married, financially stable.

Nick G
05-07-2012, 10:43 AM
Yup, fully agree with you, early childhood should be the parents responsibility. A parent can do what a kindergarten can't, such as leave them with a passion for reading e.t.c

Bobh
05-07-2012, 10:55 AM
I never went to Kindergarten before going to school. My mother stayed at home to look after us kids. Most likely the kids of today who go to Kindergarten are those who have working mothers.

I cannot remember being disadvantaged by not going to kindergarten maybe because it was a long time ago.

ChazTheGeek
05-07-2012, 11:26 AM
I never went kindergarten either. Mum tried to teach me a few things but I wasn't interested at the time. I was more interested in playing with my Lego.
I don't think there was any disadvantage in not going. But the again, kindergarten does give the parents a brake from the kids for a couple of days a week.

user
05-07-2012, 11:31 AM
Kindergarten, in my younger days, did not try to teach reading or writing in any form. I was certainly not disadvantaged by this.

inphinity
05-07-2012, 11:49 AM
Noone wants to take responsibility these days, it's always someone elses fault.

ChazTheGeek
05-07-2012, 12:00 PM
That is a sad part of life.

WalOne
05-07-2012, 01:38 PM
I don't think there was any disadvantage in not going. But the again, kindergarten does give the parents a brake from the kids for a couple of days a week.

For an eduacation [sic] thread we're not doing too bad ...

disadvantage in not going - subject but an indeterminate predicate
But the again - huh?
brake - break

:devil

beetle
05-07-2012, 01:53 PM
Even the best of us cant spell.........

And as i work at one of those centres.

We can only work with the children while they are with us, we set rules, boundaries, role modeling, as well as them learning, and a large moment of time seems to be given to teaching behavior what is acceptable, what not to do, and then try to get them sorted on language, numbers, names, colours, alphabet, and to write their names. Using scissors, and holding a pencil seems to be a big stumbling block for some children. Id also say there are families where there are no toys, or books in there house's, just TV's, PS2 / 3 or Xbox's......... and a lot i work with dont have computer's either.

They may be orn into the jet age and its all dropped in their lap, but if the parent who is raising them hasnt been parented in what is right and wrong.... then where is the hope that these children will turn out ok?

beetle

pctek
05-07-2012, 02:01 PM
Granddaughter has kindy. best thing they did for her.
She learns writing, (getting there, they're mostly recognisable now), reading and all that.
The main thing is interaction with other kids, she has no siblings and there are no neighbour kids or relatives for her.

My son went to kindy, he could write by the time he got to school. If he'd hated it I wouldn't have bothered but he liked Kindy.

I went to Kindy twice, first with my brother, because my mum had to take me (being younger) as my brother being as he was...
So by the time I finished my kindy, I could read. Properly, fully. Used to get in trouble at kindy for reading and then not wanting to participate in teacher reading time......I'd already read them...LOL.

So it's not just learning, it's being with other kids too.

And nothing wrong with a bit of learning before they get to school anyway, gets them used to the process, no crying fits at school on first day or any of that not knowing whats going to happen

mzee
05-07-2012, 02:59 PM
In my day we went to Primary school aged about eight. We had pre-primary schools from about 5 to 8. These were private and there was no compulsion to attend. They went over the top! Besides reading and writing, we were doing maths, geometry, and algebra at the age of seven!!
At primary school we wasted hours on learning Latin and French, and how Henry 8th beheaded his many wives. At the same time we were were not allowed to speak or learn the native language, Swahili. Much like the attitude they had in New Zealand regarding Maori.

ChazTheGeek
05-07-2012, 05:31 PM
For an eduacation [sic] thread we're not doing too bad ...

disadvantage in not going - subject but an indeterminate predicate
But the again - huh?
brake - break

:devil

Whoops, my bad :rolleyes:

mikebartnz
05-07-2012, 06:38 PM
Id also say there are families where there are no toys, or books in there house's, just TV's, PS2 / 3 or Xbox's......... and a lot i work with dont have computer's either.
One Maori guy who has written a book or two (can't remember his name) was giving away books to kids and I will never forget the look on this little Maori boys face as he received one. Priceless.

R2x1
05-07-2012, 06:58 PM
. . . Maybe breeding permits should be introduced, some of the conditions being that the parents are literate, married, financially stable.
Some councils insist you prove you are a fit and proper person before you can have a dog, - but having kids seems to be still classed as unskilled labour.

I guess that is logical to the councils, they derive revenue from dog owners but kids may well be just a liability on the public purse.

Metla
05-07-2012, 09:51 PM
I never went to Kindergarten before going to school. My mother stayed at home to look after us kids. Most likely the kids of today who go to Kindergarten are those who have working mothers.

I cannot remember being disadvantaged by not going to kindergarten maybe because it was a long time ago.


Both my sons have attended Kindey, I am blown away by how much this expanded their world, mentally and socially. Line em up beside children who have only known the family home since birth and the difference is profound. if anything I consider it either selfish or lazy mothers who don't send there kids along.

And I made an effort to introduce numbers, letters, and the real world to my kids, Still do introduce and discuss new topics and concepts with them, But that doesn't compare to my 4 year old telling me all the names of the planets, what order they are in and how big each one is, and then wanting to debate if Pluto is a planet or not...And how the heck does the moon create the tides?


So I tell him about gravity, Turns out he knows all about gravity and tells me what happens on the moon.....




when the youngest finishes I'm going to personally thank each staff member, what they do is awesome.

The Error Guy
05-07-2012, 09:57 PM
I was brought up outside with no TV or computer. Read every night when I could read myself, before that mum used to read to us. Spent most of my time running around outside, I could spot and dodge a patch of gorse or blackberry on the sprint. When I had mates around i'd be off up the hill barefoot in a flash, i'd look back behind me and they would be still picking their way up slowly WITH shoes :D

As a kid I hated no TV, thought mum was old fashioned and all that. Once I left primary I didn't really care about it that much, realized there were better things to do. Now preparing to finish 7th form I couldn't feel better about my upbringing, I'm a prefect in the Junior boarding house and over the last few years the kids have become more and more wussy if you like. All wrapped in cotton wool. It's terrible, the stuff we used to get up to makes them shudder. All they do is play computer games and crap.

My kids (if i'm privileged/cursed enough to have 'em :p) are gonna hate growing up with no TV or internet in the younger years but I am glad and proud to have been brought up as close to proper as you can get these days. In fact I would have prefered to have been 18 entering the 50's. Got a decent job and lived a decent life. Maybe had a play with the tech when it rolled around in the 90's/2000's but other than that had a solid time.

I also think the cane should be brought back, pain is a great educator, breaking the rules and being told to sit in a corner does piss all, as it used to be in the boarding house, being up after lights out would find you face to face with a 7th or 6th former with a cricket bat and 2x fists. No, we didn't like it but you knew, out of bed = pain so you ran the risk, yeah we got beat a few times, didn't like it at all but looking back it shaped us to who we are and gave us respect.

I hate to think what sort of a world is less than a generation behind. The fact I am part of a generation that's causing a collapse isn't too comforting either :(

Nick G
06-07-2012, 08:57 AM
My early childhood is an interesting one here. Went to a playcenter until I was 5. But, I'm homeschooled, have never gone to school.

ChazTheGeek
06-07-2012, 10:08 AM
Mate I feel very sorry for you. School is heaps of fun. :)

mikebartnz
06-07-2012, 10:18 AM
Mate I feel very sorry for you. School is heaps of fun. :)
Which part because I never found sitting in a classroom heaps of fun.

Nick G
06-07-2012, 10:20 AM
Mate I feel very sorry for you. School is heaps of fun. :)
Yea, well being home-schooled is okay too. I could go to school if I wanted, just always haven't as I'm worried that there will be a slight difference in the stuff taught, so there will be some stuff I'm behind on. But, ah well.

Gobe1
06-07-2012, 10:28 AM
I think relying on parents is a bad idea, may have worked in the past but it wont now

In my day the kids who went to kindy were the bright ones at primary school, after a few years they all level out (sort of)

ChazTheGeek
06-07-2012, 08:53 PM
Which part because I never found sitting in a classroom heaps of fun.
Most parts of school are fun, depends on the teacher. Most of them are great.

Do you get homework Nick?

Paul.Cov
07-07-2012, 08:18 AM
My only memories of Kindy were of finger painting, a visit from Santa, who gave me a tiny matchbox truck which I loved, and banging nails through bottle tops into a piece of wood.

I still find that last bit hard to fathom. Getting a minor to 'decorate' a scrap of wood by getting tiny, delicate, uncoordinated fingers to try to bang a nail through a rough edged scrap of metal with a big brutal hammer.
It's bad enough as an adult at times trying to belt a nail through a bit of metal flashing... but why get an infant to do that?

I don't remember learning anything of any use at Kindy.
Also was bored with most of my schooling in the years that followed. I still consider 90% of my classwork to have been based on complete garbage, and that teachers spend much of their time just fluffing things up to waste even more time.

I still see that today. Former teachers, when up on their feet talking to a group are still in the habit of stretching out a simple short message into a long, boring lesson. They love to ramble on...

Apart from the basics of reading, writing, spelling and maths, the only other subjects of any value to me were the science / biology based stuff.

I suppose I gained a little bit from woodwork and metalwork classes. Mostly familiarity with the tools/equipment rather than learning any technique or method.

I really appreciate my dads example. Being too tight to pay a tradesman he'd do everything himself, and I'd learn by watching or participating.
If I'd never seen him with a drilll / a spanner / a concrete mixer I'd probably have never considered using any such gear myself, and I'd be a truly pathetic individual if I hadn't learnt from his willingness to rip things apart and repair them.
Just which he'd been a bit more interested in tech (ie computers), but he never touched one.

There are adults out there that are scared to use a screwdriver! People who don't know how to change a tyre.

One of lifes greatest pleasures can be DIY work.

Nick G
07-07-2012, 09:12 AM
Most parts of school are fun, depends on the teacher. Most of them are great.

Do you get homework Nick?

All my work is homework :p

stratex5
07-07-2012, 09:18 AM
Yea, well being home-schooled is okay too. I could go to school if I wanted, just always haven't as I'm worried that there will be a slight difference in the stuff taught, so there will be some stuff I'm behind on. But, ah well.

But you've got have have your NCEA exams at a school:D

Trev
07-07-2012, 09:21 AM
Never went to Kindy. Lived in the country. Didn't learn to read or write till in primary school. Once I had learnt to read you couldn't keep me away from a book. We had a massive book collection at home. Alot of Enid Blyton books.
:)

Nick G
07-07-2012, 09:23 AM
But you've got have have your NCEA exams at a school:D

NCEA? who needs it? Both my brother and older sister are at uni without ever having done NCEA :D

kenj
07-07-2012, 10:49 AM
One of the girls on my school run was telling me her 3.5 yr old brother was kicked out of early childcare for continuous use of foul language.

This confirms my thoughts that it all starts in the home environment..... good and bad.

Ken

ChazTheGeek
07-07-2012, 10:53 AM
Oh dear!

mikebartnz
07-07-2012, 11:07 AM
One of the girls on my school run was telling me her 3.5 yr old brother was kicked out of early childcare for continuous use of foul language.

This confirms my thoughts that it all starts in the home environment..... good and bad.

Ken
True but that also works in reverse in that kids who don't hear foul language at home pick it up at Kindy.
I'm of two thoughts about Kindy. A home environment with a good and varied circle of friends and parents who try to teach them the fundamentals I think is probably better over all during those impressionable years.

Bobh
07-07-2012, 12:25 PM
My only memories of Kindy were of finger painting, a visit from Santa, who gave me a tiny matchbox truck which I loved, and banging nails through bottle tops into a piece of wood.

I still find that last bit hard to fathom. Getting a minor to 'decorate' a scrap of wood by getting tiny, delicate, uncoordinated fingers to try to bang a nail through a rough edged scrap of metal with a big brutal hammer.
It's bad enough as an adult at times trying to belt a nail through a bit of metal flashing... but why get an infant to do that?

One of lifes greatest pleasures can be DIY work.
I recall a toy that resembled a small bed with holes in the base so that dowels could be hammered through with a small wooden hammer. To repeat your performance you simply turned it over and continued to hammer the dowels back into the holes. Could keep a small kid amused for hours and was much safer than giving a kid real hammer and nails.

Metla
07-07-2012, 01:22 PM
I don't remember learning anything of any use at Kindy.
Also was bored with most of my schooling in the years that followed. I still consider 90% of my classwork to have been based on complete garbage, and that teachers spend much of their time just fluffing things up to waste even more time.

I still see that today. Former teachers, when up on their feet talking to a group are still in the habit of stretching out a simple short message into a long, boring lesson. They love to ramble on...

Apart from the basics of reading, writing, spelling and maths, the only other subjects of any value to me were the science / biology based stuff.




But when were you at kindy?, My experience in 1978 was quite a bit different from my sons 2012...hell, The entire schooling system has be rebuilt more then once in that time. I go to help my older son with his math homework and hes been taught to do it arse about face.And for all I know the new way is the better way. he seems to have a grasp on it.

Though I do believe the Te Kohanga Reo failures is something that needs to be addressed.

Anyhow, Your other reference to school, I have to agree. In the 5th form I had a strong interest in History, well, Ive had it all my life, So I took History, In 6 weeks of lessons we had learned nothing apart from being expected to memorise the ever changing boundaries of European boarders from a 20 year period in the 1300's.

When I lost interest in this lazy crap I was pulled aside, When I told them there were events, people,wars, social events ,stories behind these border changes that we should be learning about rather then just drawing lines all over a map and that I considered it a poor effort and a waste of my time I was told not to come back.

Fine said I, You're not teaching me anything, I could cover everything we have done so far in 20 minutes with a single text book.

So, They rang home and told me ma I had no interest in History and had been removed due to my attitude.

Lmfao.

Chumps, I had an interest in learning not being fobbed off with endless fluff to make it look like we were doing something.

mikebartnz
07-07-2012, 02:09 PM
But when were you at kindy?, My experience in 1978 was quite a bit different from my sons 2012...hell, The entire schooling system has be rebuilt more then once in that time. I go to help my older son with his math homework and hes been taught to do it arse about face.And for all I know the new way is the better way. he seems to have a grasp on it.
I was in the forth form when we switched to so called new maths and to me it was a load of useless crap and it used to be one of my favourite subjects. I felt I wasn't getting any where with it but everyone else was in much the same position, as I remained in the same position in class.
I remember trying to teach my nephew some simple ways of doing maths but basically gave up because he couldn't get his head around the logic because of the way they had been taught.

Billy T
07-07-2012, 05:19 PM
One of the girls on my school run was telling me her 3.5 yr old brother was kicked out of early childcare for continuous use of foul language. This confirms my thoughts that it all starts in the home environment..... good and bad. Ken

The home environment is important for sure, but it is not necessarily the sole or primary factor. It sounds like the Childcare Centre failed to manage the child from the start, parental issues or not.

Mrs T works in a Pre-School (ages 2-6 but very few stay beyond 5) that sends all their 'graduates' off to school with adequate literacy and numeracy, good social skills and hygiene practices, plus exposure to healthy food and table manners. They frequently receive children withdrawn by dissatisfied parents from 'Kindergartens' or 'Playcentres' especially the really big Corporate franchises (or moved on advice when parents are ignorant of the problems their child has) and the language some of these children use would shock a wharfie.

Their utter disrespect to their teachers, zero self-control, and their violence toward other children are real eye openers. They come in with anything from 6 to 18 months to go before they are due to start school, unable to count, not knowing shapes, colours, the alphabet, various common animals other than cat and dog, unable to write their own name, and lacking many of the other basics needed to integrate with their peers. Apart from religious constraints or vegetarian parenting, they all eat the same healthy 'home cooked' meals, nothing 'instant' or precooked and deep frozen, just food prepared from fresh ingredients hand-selected by Mrs T every week. All within a standard and very economic budget available to any Centre.

Fortunately most of their behavioural issues can be corrected, they simply don't understand limits because they have never been imposed on them, but the lack of individual attention in their early years means that many may fall behind at school. Class sizes limit the amount of individual attention teachers can give (wake up Nat Gov.) and some may never catch up completely.

This Centre is very good at spotting undiagnosed autism or other disorders and getting the experts in to confirm their impressions, but heaven knows why these kids were not diagnosed earlier. A young boy who started at age 2 when virtually mute was diagnosed promptly is now almost ready for school, and although he still has some problems, he is well equipped to take his place in mainstream education and is far less likely to end up as a lost soul.

Billy

ChazTheGeek
08-07-2012, 12:32 PM
In my day we went to Primary school aged about eight. We had pre-primary schools from about 5 to 8. These were private and there was no compulsion to attend. They went over the top! Besides reading and writing, we were doing maths, geometry, and algebra at the age of seven!!
At primary school we wasted hours on learning Latin and French, and how Henry 8th beheaded his many wives. At the same time we were were not allowed to speak or learn the native language, Swahili. Much like the attitude they had in New Zealand regarding Maori.

Not learning Swahili doesn't make sense as it is actually used as a everyday language (for some) over where you came from, and it would come in handy. Maori is different as it is basically dead and hardly any one speaks it, only at ceremonies and such, but they usually translate anyway. There in hardly any point at all in learning the Maori language.

Bobh
08-07-2012, 01:23 PM
When I was a kid we did up to two years in the Primmers (new entrant classes could be the new term). A kid usually was sent to school on their 5th birthday which meant that there would be new kids starting school throughout the year. Some kids would therefore do two years in the primmers while others did a year and a bit.

At seven years of age we went to standard one in Primary School.