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View Full Version : Final questions on my lost emails problem.........nearly there now.



Billy T
16-05-2012, 10:57 AM
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For the last couple of weeks I've been running icons on my desktop linking directly to my Xtra/Yahoo and Orcon accounts via webmail, and so far it appears that Orcon is blameless, but Xtra/Yahoo has been dumping a fair amount of legitimate mail into the spam folder. I'm not 100% sure, but it is possible that it may also have put some directly into Trash.

Xtra/Yahoo has an option to untick "automatically move spam to spam folder' and if i do this, I assume that it will simply allow me to see all incoming mail in Mailwasher, as I have always done in the past. Hoewever, that option seems to be absent from the Orcon configuration pages.

Two questions arise:

Firstly, will unticking the auto-move option in Xtra/Yahoo mean that I then see all of the incoming mail in Mailwasher?

Logic says I will because it should then all appear in my inbox (but Mailwasher will have tagged it already) however I am being particularly cautious because I missed an awful lot of business mail until I got on top of this, and didn't know until I received irate phone calls. Some of those missed emails may yet cost me a lot of money.

Secondly, am I missing something in Orcon? Like X/Y it has a spam filter of course, but I am very reluctant to allow it to make those decisions for me as my viagra supplies might run out, I've already lost contact with several promising Russian brides, and a number of excellent investment opportunities have slipped through my fingers. :D

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

CYaBro
16-05-2012, 11:09 AM
I'll just put my 2c in here :D

This is why you shouldn't use an ISP email for a business.
Buy your own domain name, approx $30 a year, and use a free Google apps account for your email addresses.
You can have up to 10 email addresses on the free google apps account.
You also won't have to worry about spam anymore as Google's spam filter is awesome.
This way you also bypass the ISP mail servers, which seem to have a lot of issues, just look at Telecom / Xtra last week!

Billy T
16-05-2012, 03:38 PM
I'll just put my 2c in here :D

This is why you shouldn't use an ISP email for a business.
Buy your own domain name, approx $30 a year, and use a free Google apps account for your email addresses.
You can have up to 10 email addresses on the free google apps account.
You also won't have to worry about spam anymore as Google's spam filter is awesome.
This way you also bypass the ISP mail servers, which seem to have a lot of issues, just look at Telecom / Xtra last week!

I have my own domain name, which is hosted by Orcon for a nominal fee, but I spoke too soon about Orcon reliability.

I just had notification via mailwasher that there was an email waiting at my presumed blameless Business inbox. It appeared in Mailwasher, then failed to download into Outlook, but is not present on Orcon's mailserver anymore, so where did it go?

Fortunately it was still visible in Mailwasher (which only reads or deletes, never downloads) so at least I have received the message, but I am getting increasingly confused.

The address is [myname-at-companyname.co.nz] and it is not clear to me why I should be receiving via Orcon webmail anyway, I always thought that webmail was the less reliable option like Hotmail etc, or is it just that I am doing my checks via webmail that produces that appearance?

My current email arrangments and specific set-up configurations have been in use for about 15 years now and have never missed a beat (not counting Telecom's brief issues last week), so something has changed to cause these random losses of email to occur but I'm blowed if I can figure out what it is.

The best I can do at present to ensure I don't lose business is a rather clumsy and time consuming round of checks on what is waiting before I download (and who is sending so that I can ask for a resend to my gmail address if their message vanishes). It is starting to get rather annoying.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Safari
16-05-2012, 04:51 PM
Of course mailwasher downloads the mail, that is how you get to read it in Mailwasher. What it doesn't do is remove it from the server.
Outlook removes it from the server if it is set to do that. You can of course set it to leave mail on the server for a selected period.
If you had the message open in mailwasher when Outlook downloaded it, it will be removed from Orcon webmail server but you will still see what you had open in mailwasher until you update mailwashe with another mail check.

Have you got another mail program you can setup such as Outlook Express to check if Outlook is causing the problem by hiding the message somewhere. Any mail rules or filters setup, viewing by grouped items etc.
From what you explain it looks like Outlook is defimitely downloading them.

GameJunkie
16-05-2012, 05:12 PM
gmail

wainuitech
16-05-2012, 05:56 PM
Of course mailwasher downloads the mail, that is how you get to read it in Mailwasher. What it doesn't do is remove it from the server.
Outlook removes it from the server if it is set to do that. Not fully correct.

Mailwasher only downloads a very small text portion of the mails from the server, it then deletes them if you tell it to. Outlook or what ever mail client you are using has nothing to do with it deleting.

Several times a day I check my mails, and delete most of them as long as they are not wanted, Outlook never even opens - so it cant delete them, it only opens after mailwasher has deleted or done what actions its told to do. If I delete everything Outlook does not open, it only opens if I leave mails to come through.

As per mailwashers Site:
If you check your account with MailWasher first, you can delete or bounce the emails you do not want. Then, when you use your email program, it downloads only the remaining emails, those that you want to read.

Billy T
17-05-2012, 11:46 PM
Not fully correct. Mailwasher only downloads a very small text portion of the mails from the server, it then deletes them if you tell it to. Outlook or what ever mail client you are using has nothing to do with it deleting. Several times a day I check my mails, and delete most of them as long as they are not wanted, Outlook never even opens - so it cant delete them, it only opens after mailwasher has deleted or done what actions its told to do. If I delete everything Outlook does not open, it only opens if I leave mails to come through.

As per mailwashers Site:


What WT said!

As I have always understood the process, MW initially just tells you what you have waiting in a one-line notification. You can then look at and read the complete header (which I do if suspecting spam or malware and it has not been flagged by MW) or read the entire message while still on the server. Technically I suppose the information has been 'copied over' from the ISP's server, but that is not downloading per se, and the original is still there.

I think I always get to see what is initially on the servers, but it is the downloading that is going awry and it happens more often if there is an attachment, but not exclusively so.

As mentioned before, some mail that disappears may be found in the Xtra or Orcon webmail spam or trash folders but occasionally the message simply evaporates into the ether.

Whatever the cause, it remains a reduced but ongoing problem, though my current strategies are eliminating 99% of losses. For the 1% I have already noted the name, email address and subject so that I can call for a resend to Gmail.

It is just that it is so damned embarrassing to have to keep telling commercial clients that I can't communicate reliably by email.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :mad:

notechyet
18-05-2012, 08:01 AM
BT
I had an Outlook (corrupt) profile a while ago which downlaoded some emails(after checking with mailwasher) and placed those straight in the deleted folder. Might be worth a check.:2cents:

wainuitech
18-05-2012, 10:31 AM
BT - just curious -- How much email do you actually have on your computer ?

The reason for asking - I was at a business earlier this week, and the guys email would come through ( you can see the progress bar bottom right) then it would suddenly disappear - he wasn't using mailwasher, but it was nowhere to be found.

He was using Outlook 2003 - and the problem was simply he had way to much mail saved. Once we had a "good clean out" and I mean dumped a few thousand mails in total, sent items, deleted items - any new mails now came through and were fine. :2cents:

mikebartnz
18-05-2012, 11:16 AM
The address is [myname-at-companyname.co.nz] and it is not clear to me why I should be receiving via Orcon webmail anyway, I always thought that webmail was the less reliable option like Hotmail etc, or is it just that I am doing my checks via webmail that produces that appearance?
I think you are getting confused there as if you are using Mailwasher/Outlook it is just getting the mail from the Orcon servers. Webmail is when you use a web browser to access your emails.

mikebartnz
18-05-2012, 11:20 AM
BT - just curious -- How much email do you actually have on your computer ?

The reason for asking - I was at a business earlier this week, and the guys email would come through ( you can see the progress bar bottom right) then it would suddenly disappear - he wasn't using mailwasher, but it was nowhere to be found.

He was using Outlook 2003 - and the problem was simply he had way to much mail saved. Once we had a "good clean out" and I mean dumped a few thousand mails in total, sent items, deleted items - any new mails now came through and were fine. :2cents:
The number of people I try telling to have a sort out and get rid of all emails they don't need so they don't have thousands but they never do anything and then wonder things stuff up and slow down.
I seem to remember that Outlook was particularly bad when getting above about 5,000. Or it could have been Outlook Express.

linw
18-05-2012, 03:33 PM
And if the earlier Oulook file got to 2GB.....

Billy T
18-05-2012, 07:07 PM
BT - just curious -- How much email do you actually have on your computer ?

The reason for asking - I was at a business earlier this week, and the guys email would come through ( you can see the progress bar bottom right) then it would suddenly disappear - he wasn't using mailwasher, but it was nowhere to be found. He was using Outlook 2003 - and the problem was simply he had way to much mail saved. Once we had a "good clean out" and I mean dumped a few thousand mails in total, sent items, deleted items - any new mails now came through and were fine. :2cents:


Well! That is a possibility I hadn't considered. Ever since I moved to 2003 and got free of the 2 GB limit I have been less than diligent about deleting mail and it is now up to 3.2GB. Do you think this might be it, or was your client a bigger hoarder than I have been. I do delete as much as I can as I go along but it does accumulate.

I'm dead sure that Mailwasher is innocent in all of this since it only opens the file and looks at the mail, though I do use it to delete spam etc, plus any other mail I don't want so that it never gets downloaded into Outlook. I'll make a backup of my PST over the weekend, do a major clean out of the current PST file, then compact it and see if that helps at all.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

wainuitech
18-05-2012, 07:36 PM
The client I was helping -- They had 1.4GB in mail on Outlook plus just over 1GB archived using outlook 2003.

After cleaning out many old mails going back years, that they didn't really want, everything started working again as it should.

This may be your problem, may not, but just something to keep in the back of your possible causes basket. :)

Billy T
18-05-2012, 11:32 PM
The client I was helping -- They had 1.4GB in mail on Outlook plus just over 1GB archived using outlook 2003. After cleaning out many old mails going back years, that they didn't really want, everything started working again as it should. This may be your problem, may not, but just something to keep in the back of your possible causes basket. :)

It seems I have more mail stored than they had, but then I was running close to the 2GB limit with Outlook 2000 and had no problems there. I don't bother archiving because I have many Gigs of spare disk space and keep multiple back-up copies.

A little housekeeping never goes amiss so I'll have a clean out per my previous reply and see what happens. If it turnsd to custard it is just a matter of renaming two files and I'm back where I started. I'd really like to sort this email problem because it is causing me a lot of grief.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)