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View Full Version : Good progress on vanishing email problem, but further advice needed



Billy T
27-04-2012, 11:54 AM
Hi Team

Reading a thread about a 'Yahoo/Xtra webmail + vanishing email' problem that was posted here while I was away in Oz rang a bell with my similar-sounding issues. Just before reading that thread, I had completed checking of all my emails from the time I was away and as usual I had already previewed them in Mailwasher and copied the contents to a text file as a safety precaution. Not surprisingly, several then vanished during downloading.

So, I logged on to Yahoo/Xtra webmail and sure enough quite a few emails were there, equally distributed between the Trash and Spam folders. It looked like Xtra/Yahoo had auto-deleted some into Trash and the rest were in Spam awaiting my attention. Unfortunately I can't be sure whether any were from the Orcon account because I did not anticipate finding the thread mentioned above, which happened after the download, and also after I finished kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier.

So, I now have three questions:

1) Can I disable the Yahoo/Xtra spam/trash filters and if so, how? I don't want to keep having to log on to Yahoo/Xtra to preview my mail and Mailwasher has done a thorough and reliable job for me for many years. I also value the message and header preview functions which I use often to check out suspect mail.

2) How can Email items appear in Trash if I haven't actually sent them there, or is that an automatic (heuristic?) function for known or suspected spam sources?

3) My Business Email comes Via Orcon and incoming is pop3.orcon.net.nz but outgoing is smtp.xtra.co.nz. My Private Email comes via Xtra and the incoming is pop3.xtra.co.nz and outgoing is smtp.xtra.co.nz. I am losing email from my Business/Orcon account as well, so is Orcon relaying through Yahoo/Xtra, or do I have to look for a similar spam filter on their site?


As far as I am aware my web access is exclusively Xtra, and I am quite certain that I do not have web acess via Orcon. All I wanted from them was hosting for my domain name and domain email address. I pay them just $5 per month, so I'm thinking that although my business email comes via Orcon, it is probably then passed through Xtra and being buggered up by their spam filtering, along with the mail from my Xtra Email account.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :help::help:

Chilling_Silence
27-04-2012, 01:34 PM
Sounds like you need your business emails to be hosted via Google Apps, it's free for up to 10 accounts. No fees, no fuss, it all just works ;)

Billy T
27-04-2012, 01:55 PM
Sounds like you need your business emails to be hosted via Google Apps, it's free for up to 10 accounts. No fees, no fuss, it all just works ;)

Maybe so Chill, and that is an alternative that I can definitely look at if I can't sort the present situation. However, at the moment it seems to me that I should be able to eliminate the Yahoo/Xtra auto-diversion of my mail by turning off their scanning, I just need to find out how to do that, and rather than using 'suck it and see' actions that might cause me further grief I would rather to tap the collective wisdom and experience of PF1. If that doesn't turn up any solutions I'll try to find answers in the webmail program itself but that will take time that I simply don't have to spare right now.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :dogeye:

inphinity
27-04-2012, 02:25 PM
Given you connect to pop3.orcon.net.nz to retrieve your business email, no, Yahoo/Xtra are not involved in that at all.

Safari
27-04-2012, 04:17 PM
!. Yes you can disable the spam filter under Options

2. Yahoo/Xtra may be placing the messages in Trash instead of deleting them after you have downloaded with Outlook but that should not matter as you already have them in your Outlook Inbox.

3. If you are logging into pop3.orcon.net.nz your mail goes to Orcon and nowhere near Xtra.
Orcon have webmail access, just go to their site and login to webmail with your Orcon username and password.

Mailwasher show the mail on the server, it does not show any messages that Xtra may have put in the spam folder so any there you would not see in Mailwasher or download them with Outlook. Turning off the spam filter will stop any you want going there.
Some missing messages might be in the Orcon spam folder, disable that or change the settings
http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/how_do_i_adjust_my_spam_filter_settings

It still does not explain how some messages showing in Mailwasher do not download into Outlook. Are you quite sure that this is happening or is it just some messages you don't receive but they also did not appear in mailwasher.
The normal reason for missing mail is ISP spam filters.

You can do some checks easily yourself by sending an email to your orcon address with an attachment such as an AIR NZ eticket.
Check in Orcon webmail that it is in the Inbox and not the spam filter
Check it shows with Mailwasher and it downloads into Outlook.
If it doesn't come into Outlook go back to webmail and check if it is still on the server, if it isn't I would still suspect a mailwasher issue

1101
27-04-2012, 04:32 PM
Heres the issue.
Yahoo is not a professional class email service. Just the way it is
Perhaps Orcon is just as bad ??

Are you are expecting too much from email systems that are aimed at the home user ??
Yes they should just work, but yahoo certainly isnt that reliable, Ive had emails with 3 day delays !!!!

The settings in for the Yahoo spam filter are very easy to find & turn off.
:thumbs:


Speaking of unreliable email, is anyone having any issues sending to hotmail over the last few days ??

Billy T
28-04-2012, 10:11 PM
Hi Team

Just to clarify the issue a little, principally because there seem to be some misconceptions in recent posts, I have been using the current configurations with Orcon & Xtra for nearly 15 years now and for at least 10 years I have been using Mailwasher to delete unwanted mail & spam direct from the mail service-providers' servers.


Mailwasher shows the mail on the server, it does not show any messages that Xtra may have put in the spam folder so any there you would not see in Mailwasher or download them with Outlook.

That is not correct. I have always seen all of my mail on both Mailservers, every time. Mailwasher only sorts and classifies mail, the default is 'download everything,' and it is up to the user to decide whether or not to mark an item for either once-only deletion or auto-deletion in the future. In point of fact, none of the missing mail has ever turned up in Mailwasher's trash or deleted items.

So, at the present time a proportion of the mail I have cleared for download simply vanishes during the download process, i.e. at the time I access the mailserver via Mailwasher, all my incoming mail is still sitting there safely and is readable via Mailwasher. It is only during subsequent downloading that the items disappear.

Thus it seems apparent that both Xtra and Orcon are screening my mail immediately after I ask for it (and prior to sending it) thus diverting clean mail to spam or trash.

If they were moving mail to spam or trash folders at the time of receipt on their servers i.e. before I even know I have mail, then I would never even get to see them in Mailwasher because that does not give me access to those folders at the email service provider, all I see is whatever remains in my inbox. If it did show me the mailservers' spam and trash folders then I'd have pulled those items out and downloaded them separately.

This is a truly weird situation, because the missing mail is totally benign and there is no reason whatsoever for any of it to be going into spam or trash folders. Only a small proportion of my mail has attachments, but most of the missing mail does contain attachments, in fact the first time I found that mail was missing it was a PDF airline ticket from AirNZ and at the time I was on the phone to AirNZ complaining about non-receipt. The guy sent it again and it still didn't arrive, so at that point I got him to send it to my Gmail (which does not pass through Mailwasher) so that I could fly out next morning, and thereafter I started checking that what I was seeing in Mailwasher was turning up in my inbox.

I'm afraid that I do not fully understand the front-office side of email services so I don't know how they process the mail or how they select mail to go in their trash bin, but they are certainly intercepting randomly some of my harmless incoming emails

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :groan:

fred_fish
28-04-2012, 10:33 PM
That is not correct. I have always seen all of my mail on both Mailservers, every time. Mailwasher only sorts and classifies mail, the default is 'download everything,' and it is up to the user to decide whether or not to mark an item for either once-only deletion or auto-deletion in the future. In point of fact, none of the missing mail has ever turned up in Mailwasher's trash or deleted items.
Safari is entirely correct. A POP3 connection will only ever show messages in the Inbox.
The "trash" or any other 'folders' are only accessible via IMAP (which is also what the webmail interface uses).

So, at the present time a proportion of the mail I have cleared for download simply vanishes during the download process, i.e. at the time I access the mailserver via Mailwasher, all my incoming mail is still sitting there safely and is readable via Mailwasher. It is only during subsequent downloading that the items disappear.

Thus it seems apparent that both Xtra and Orcon are screening my mail immediately after I ask for it (and prior to sending it) thus diverting clean mail to spam or trash.
Nope. Any filtering that they do is immediately on message reception.
Anything moved subsequent to you retrieving the headers is done according to the commands you (mailwasher) are issuing.

If they were moving mail to spam or trash folders at the time of receipt on their servers i.e. before I even know I have mail, then I would never even get to see them in Mailwasher because that does not give me access to those folders at the email service provider, all I see is whatever remains in my inbox. If it did show me the mailservers' spam and trash folders then I'd have pulled those items out and downloaded them separately.
Correct.

Again, you need to find out what mailwasher is telling the pop server to do with your mail.
If it can do complete session logging, turn it on.
If not, use tcpdump or smartsniff or such to dump the connection traffic to a log file for review.

Safari
28-04-2012, 11:11 PM
They are not intercepting randomly some of your harmless incoming emails. They are showing on the server and in mailwasher but after that they don't come into Outlook.
You are a tester Billy, do some testing and isolating. Don't download to Outlook from within mailwasher, get Outlook to do the download. Turn off the spam filter for Xtra and Orcon.
In the case of the Air NZ ticket it probably went into the spam folder of either Xtra or Orcon, not uncommon because of all the HTML in the email.

You don't need Mailwasher, I know you think you do but you don't. Don't get so paranoid about spam emails.
Let everything come into Outlook and delete them from there.
I still say it is a Mailwasher problem and that is easy enough to prove by not using it for a while and evaluating the results.