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beetle
06-02-2012, 06:36 PM
No matter how hard i try.............. the stigma of being a single parent never quite goes away.
I am a good parent, some days even a great parent, and others i choose to forget.
But when some one points out to my children that the best people in the world, the ones that god truely loves comes from a whole family, with a mum and a dad, with kids all living in the same house is the only way to be........ i see red.
I did not ask to be a single parent............
I am a hard working person who gives respect to all, and unless you cross me .. i will give help.
How is it, that i am teaching my children right from wrong, respect and morals where a lot of people in this world arnt, and have no idea how to teach this as they were never taught it them selves........

We all as far as i know come into the world the same way, naked and usually screaming....... :p and we all have chances to be the best we can no matter what our upbringing. but the stigma of a single parent family, or unemployed gives life a bleak outlook. some times that is beyond our control, families disentigrating, loss of jobs....... do we really need to give the next generation the same sad state of affairs, of you are lower than me etc?
surely we are created equal, we should all have the same rights and decisions about how we live? morally people will always grump about how low or bad some one is, can we not get past it? and give positive guidance? and just be there and help them?

some families are far better off with only one parent as a guide, living in a family of fear and abuse, or pain and suffering i guess can be continually detrimental.

Are we only aware of how bad life can be when it hits the news of another child dying or a partner killed because of poverty, and anger issues.......
Is society really fueling it? by our attitudes? by our ignore if you can attitude?
I thought that God fearing people where a little more forgiving and accepting........... but i learn this weekend, that no, they are just another wolf in sheeps clothing........ because my family dont fit the norm and acceptable.
Sadly my child learnt that our family is a lower form because her dad is not part of it.

We are made up of a huge amount of different families in NZ, from 1 - 20 people in a house......? special cultures, religions and ethnics..... why can we just not accept we are all different ........ but still special in our own way.

Rant over.
:D

beetle

Metla
06-02-2012, 06:48 PM
Christians?

Those delusion judgmental hypocritical small minded fools that have condemned every single person who doesn't follow their perverse fantasies to eternal suffering?

Why would anyone care what they think?....they are mad. Best you can do is tell your kids that they are sick and its best to avoid them.

Cicero
06-02-2012, 07:08 PM
One of the best minds on the subject here............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzdeVtLMv0

WalOne
06-02-2012, 07:34 PM
Beetle, I'm so, so sad you're feeling down. And especially as the result of some idiot having seen fit to challenge the belief systems of a child - and its mother - like has happened here.

Nothing I can do, but rest assured not everybody is as callous as that, and that you have the support of most people on this forum, most certainly, me.

Cheer up if you can :)

Bobh
06-02-2012, 07:48 PM
I cannot help feeling that there are a lot of people who call themselves christian who do not know right from wrong, do not respect others and do not have morals. There are a lot of people who do not consider themselves christian who do know right from wrong, do respect others and do have morals.

pcuser42
06-02-2012, 07:49 PM
Christians?

Those delusion judgmental hypocritical small minded fools that have condemned every single person who doesn't follow their perverse fantasies to eternal suffering?

Why would anyone care what they think?....they are mad. Best you can do is tell your kids that they are sick and its best to avoid them.

Wish I could say that on various social networks without offending someone...

Metla
06-02-2012, 07:56 PM
Whats the matter with offending people?

I'm sure some pressf1 users are offended by my post, I doubt it gives them cancer.

mikebartnz
06-02-2012, 08:03 PM
Christians?

Those delusion judgmental hypocritical small minded fools that have condemned every single person who doesn't follow their perverse fantasies to eternal suffering?

Why would anyone care what they think?....they are mad. Best you can do is tell your kids that they are sick and its best to avoid them.
+1

R.M.
06-02-2012, 08:08 PM
Beetle - like WalOne - I'm sorry you feel down. It's not really a comfort to you - but here on the forum we respect and value you and your values. Hold your head high!

I admire you doing the parenting on your own. Not something easy to do - especially with someone making comments like that to your children. I have my doubts about the substance of their values. Keep in touch with us. :)

BBCmicro
06-02-2012, 08:09 PM
Christians?

Those delusion judgmental hypocritical small minded fools that have condemned every single person who doesn't follow their perverse fantasies to eternal suffering?


One should not judge Christians by Americans...

WalOne
06-02-2012, 08:15 PM
Christians?

Those delusion judgmental hypocritical small minded fools that have condemned every single person who doesn't follow their perverse fantasies to eternal suffering?

Why would anyone care what they think?....they are mad. Best you can do is tell your kids that they are sick and its best to avoid them.

Not only Christians, Mets. Just about every organised religion there is out there.

It's big business. The Roman Catholic church reportedly took in around US$89 billion last year. Not to mention an upstart local "bishop" jumping on the bandwagon, too. :mad:

And all on the promise of eternal salvation, that no-one can challenge because the almighty tends to be reticent on the subject,choosing to neither confirm nor deny, by and large reigning in his/her thunderbolts, pestilence and other assorted weaponry.

pcuser42
06-02-2012, 08:20 PM
Whats the matter with offending people?

I'm sure some pressf1 users are offended by my post, I doubt it gives them cancer.

She's the one person I REALLY don't want to offend :p

BBCmicro
06-02-2012, 08:29 PM
the almighty tends to be reticent on the subject,choosing to neither confirm nor deny,
If the almighty could be confirmed to exist, he would have to be made out of stuff that could be confirmed to exist ie, ordure

plod
06-02-2012, 08:29 PM
I for one beetle support single mums, just check my avatar. But seriously why would you even bother or care what others like that think of you. That's the sort of people not worth having around

WalOne
06-02-2012, 08:34 PM
If the almighty could be confirmed to exist, he would have to be made out of stuff that could be confirmed to exist ie, ordure

But isn't that playing into the hands of organised religions - those that rely on the threat of hell and damnation to keep the faithful, well faithful.

And having clocked up 2 SWMBOs and by extension 2 mothers-in-law, I'm personally certain the almighty is a she. :lol:

rob_on_guitar
06-02-2012, 08:36 PM
You know your kids love you, single parent or not, if you go to bed knowing you have done everything you can for your kids then who gives a **** what some gimp says. I have had a similar conversation that only last a few sentences before the gimp suddenly felt the need to leave quickly.

Metla
06-02-2012, 08:37 PM
One should not judge Christians by Americans...

You what?

Should I take offense at your judgement of my abilities to view the world around me?

I assure you the Americans didn't cloud my view in the slightest, Nope, The locals are all crazy enough.

I do know of a local uproar because a local mum had a different last name then her two children, all of a sudden the welcoming and loving Catholics treated her like a whore and her children like lepers, and tried to force them all into intensive counseling within the church.

They of course took plan B and ran for the hills.....Much better then accepting the poison.

beetle
06-02-2012, 09:13 PM
Why you ask.............. because when you child comes home in tears because she felt an outsider at a youth camp that was meant to be a fun and loving environment, you know the ones that have mud runs, and water fights and spot lighting etc.........all good clean moral fun......
Having to explain to the leaders at that camp......that you feel strongly that you need to take said child home......... early. because even to me they implied when i said about single parenting, it was my choice, and mine alone, and teaching my child right and wrong..........attitudes changed.

But the weekend was focused around religion, church, etc and families and building strong relationships........ sigh, but the one thing my daughter heard constantly was whole families........ they seem to be a driving topic at the camp. Ive never had it pointed out quite so forcefully to me or my children that i dont measure up.......

I was angry as......... they hurt my child, she will no longer be going to that group......... their sheltered, or tunnel vision ideas have killed all kindness and happiness we had from that group in the past, means the end is here.

plod
06-02-2012, 09:31 PM
An ha, the good old Christian youth groups. Yes their definitely tell you there Christian values, and in a perfect world a two parent family would be ideal. And to be perfectly honest you can't expect much more from them. That is the price of sending children to a camp, you get a breathe and in return their take your kids and do some mellow brain washing. I speak from experience having been sent to said camps when I was a child.

beetle
06-02-2012, 09:42 PM
Its sad because she has been going to this youth group for a few years now and its the first time we've felt inferior...
My son had been all keen to start attending it as well, and i had thought it was a good place for learning right and wrong, and morals....
Maybe i was wrong......... the brain washing has always been there, just in a very mild form....

R2x1
06-02-2012, 10:23 PM
Being decried by religious extremists could be taken as a compliment in many cultures. Many groups with their high highfaluting invisible friend have to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude to ward off the invisible demons they conjure up. Narrow minded dogma is a refuge of the small minded adherents of some of these more peculiar groups; if you look dispassionately at these people and their attitudes you will see that you have had a narrow escape from being indoctrinated into thinking and acting like they do - a truly scary prospect.

Perhaps we should go back to the old ways - the Lion Park should be re-opening, on that day it's party time for feeding the lions.

goodiesguy
06-02-2012, 10:38 PM
Christians?

Those delusion judgmental hypocritical small minded fools that have condemned every single person who doesn't follow their perverse fantasies to eternal suffering?

Why would anyone care what they think?....they are mad. Best you can do is tell your kids that they are sick and its best to avoid them.

I agree with this. But not all christians are like that. My mum is one, and doesn't condemn me to eternal suffering etc.. just because i don't believe. Though i constantly tell her that there is no historical or physical proof of any 'Supernatural man in the sky' to exist.

Edit: the below post is directed to christians other than my mum. As my mum is my mum and she is pretty open to conversation about things existing or not.

goodiesguy
06-02-2012, 10:46 PM
An ha, the good old Christian youth groups. Yes their definitely tell you there Christian values, and in a perfect world a two parent family would be ideal. And to be perfectly honest you can't expect much more from them. That is the price of sending children to a camp, you get a breathe and in return their take your kids and do some mellow brain washing. I speak from experience having been sent to said camps when I was a child.

I hate Christians!!!!!!!!!!!! I used to be forced to go to church, and always got in deep **** for speaking my mind and not buying into their crappy stuff. I once talked to a kid and he had never heard of South Park, i was shocked, as back then, South park was THE show to watch for people round my age back then. I also remember pulling the finger at the childrens pastor, i think i even told him to f off once. I also sat through an entire church sermon listening to my mp4 player.

End of my random rant on christians.

george12
06-02-2012, 10:54 PM
Beetle, I'm so sorry to hear that you and your child have been treated like that. It's not right.

I'm a Christian myself, and I do strongly believe that a family with two parents is ideal, but life doesn't always work that way. It's horrible that you or your daughter should be made to feel inferior. It sounds like you do an excellent job as a parent and for that you should be encouraged. You deserve as much love and respect as anyone else.

A one-parent family is still a family and can be wonderful. I don't know why these people would go on and on about "whole" families.

It disappoints me though that people jump on the Christian-hating bandwagon. Not all Christians are the same; not all have harsh, negative attitudes to people who aren't like them. That's the opposite of how a Christian person should be.

beetle
06-02-2012, 11:06 PM
George im not a christian hating person, im a disolusioned (sp?) person and disapointed that they feel that strongly they cannot see the forest for the trees thing....

Each is entitled to their own opinion i guess but when it involves a young mind whether it is good or bad, they need to be aware that we are not all from whole families...... the norm is one in three i think of families that actually are the whole family, sad but true in todays society.

There were 50 -70 kids at this camp, they are all raving on Face book how wonderful it was, but i am sure they did not get brain washed....... lol much, as i would say a vast majority of them have 2 parent families in the same house...

We have learnt the hard way i guess......... they just lot our house hold as members, and all my daughters immediate friends.... so youth group this week.it will be their loss, not ours.

we now are planning a regular thing to do with either our families, or a just the kids...lol not the thing to be with the olds i guess....:p

Thanks for listening, it hasnt changed anything but it feels better to let off steam and rant a little.
each to their own,
beetle

pctek
07-02-2012, 07:58 AM
i learn this weekend, that no, they are just another wolf in sheeps clothing........

Have nothing to do with religious nutters.
They spread toxicity to your kids.

Religion is the biggest cause of prejudice and violence in the world.

Cicero
07-02-2012, 10:03 AM
As can be seen in Iraq.

WalOne
07-02-2012, 10:15 AM
Cicero: thanks for the link earlier to Sam Harris. Although his conclusion seems pre-determined and his case a little self serving, he does have some interesting points. I've book marked the page to hear later, what he has to say in the other vids . :)

ellpow
07-02-2012, 10:32 AM
Beetle - my heart goes out to you and yours. There was a time a few years back when over half the families around where we lived were single parent families - the norm. Like you said, this may even be the more nurturing environment for some kids, but it is such hard work and so lonely at times. Just remember that most kids are resilient and grow up "NORMAL" - since we are all nutters in our own way.

pcuser42
07-02-2012, 11:02 AM
Religion is the biggest cause of prejudice and violence in the world.

:clap

Thank - er, someone for irreligion. :p

Paul.Cov
07-02-2012, 11:07 AM
The religous pillock leading the camp could have helped fill the paternal gaps that exist in your kids lives, and could have stood as a male role model to them. Instead he distanced himself and showed biggotism. To hell with him. He's proven his uselessness in the role.

THere are plenty of families broken up by worse things than parental disagreements. Cancer, disease, injury... all families can lose a parental figure at any time (and call it an act of God). Sure, there's a gap left that the other parent will fill to some degree, but this can be any family, and often times it will be a Christian family as well.

So this idiot is going to criticise families of the bereaved as well?

There are also plenty of families with mongrel parents, who swear, drink, gamble and abuse their kids. Should these families be held in a greater respect than yours due to the presence of two crappy parents? Hell NO!

The guy's a dick. Find yourself some other groups to nourish your kids in, rather than the toxic environment he has created.

Personally, I spent a lot of my life disliking my dad, but I also treasure a lot of the values he instilled in me. These were values learnt not from his lectures, but from watching his actions. In most cases I respected and absorbed his ethics. In other cases I resolved not to be like him. Either way, good or bad, he still stood as a moral compas for ways a person should or shouldn't behave. I was able to make my own judgements of his character. Your kids can do likewise with all the others in their lives... yourself, their teachers, family, friends.
We all inherently know good from bad, honor from dishonor, and we all choose our own actions. THe trick is not to yeild too often to the bad influences out there.

Cicero
07-02-2012, 12:02 PM
Cicero: thanks for the link earlier to Sam Harris. Although his conclusion seems pre-determined and his case a little self serving, he does have some interesting points. I've book marked the page to hear later, what he has to say in the other vids . :)
In that case try ..........

http://goo.gl/Egrwu

DeSade
07-02-2012, 12:14 PM
You come across as a likeable, kind caring and quirky person.
Don't ever let anyone tell you you're not good enough because they are talking out of their ass.

beetle
07-02-2012, 12:25 PM
Aparently it was all the leaders at the camp that were voicing this sort of thing, both male and female. it was the females that came and talked to me while i was waiting for my daughter. they were very polite and kind of gushy till i said a few things about parenting, choice and trying to teach right from wrong. and the moment the single parent info popped out, it was like a light went out......

Earlier in the week i had talked to a male leader at camp, and felt a bit fobbed off, as i was concerned about the normal fall outs teenagers have and have been battling over the holidays the fall out from one quite determined vicious teen who is no longer part of our lives......... the spread of numerous un truths are quite difficult when you are the supposed sole item of gossip.
I went to him for help, my duaghter in the past went to him for help, they (both M & F) are all much younger than me, seems like a zillion years younger, early 20's a lot of them and some not even having a partner. while others have had a bit of life, and children of their own........ but all happily married..... producing multiple amounts of children regularly.
apparently showing the best role models possible.......:(

we dont or very rarely have contact with the dad, always instigated by my children, i do have some close friends who are great male role models, but who are happily married and have busy lives. so it is hard to find the time, to have a male input into my childrens lives. i do my best, and yes it can be lonely, but my kids are really a important part of my life and at the moment it revolves around them.

and when they hurt, i hurt.

Thanks all for your input.....

My fellow workers are horrified by what i have said happened, ( much more in depth of course) but still have the same angry type of response.

Hope you are all doing well in your own lives, treat every one with respect and dont judge others especially if youre not walking the same path.

beetle

beetle
07-02-2012, 12:30 PM
LOL thanks Desade........ if you ask some of the long time pf1 people ..............quirky......... and electrifying are good words to describe me............ i used to also think ditsy, but age is slowly irradicating that part..... respect, and honesty is always been high on my list of things i try to be and give.

:)

SP8's
07-02-2012, 12:44 PM
they (both M & F) are all much younger than me, seems like a zillion years younger, early 20's a lot of them and some not even having a partner. while others have had a bit of life, and children of their own........ but all happily married..... producing multiple amounts of children regularly.
apparently showing the best role models possible.......

Yeah right (where's the bloody Tui ad gone) ... and I bet if you you dug deep enough into their background and stuck a couple of hidden cameras in the homes ... you'd find they're not as perfect as you are beetle ;)

beetle
07-02-2012, 01:15 PM
Um sure im perfect...................:p at what? i have no idea............... but as to the rest im just a mere mortal who does her best........... you did make me laugh tho, never thought i have been anything near perfect, i manage to stuff up a lot............. :)

but with my kids i try particularly hard to get it right.... :)

Agent_24
07-02-2012, 02:30 PM
.

Yeah right (where's the bloody Tui ad gone) ... and I bet if you you dug deep enough into their background and stuck a couple of hidden cameras in the homes ... you'd find they're not as perfect as you are beetle ;)

Bet? I'd be surprised if it wasn't a certainty.

gary67
07-02-2012, 03:19 PM
Well I'm not Christian and never have been yet I married one. My wife doesn't go to church and was a single Mum for 9 years, her husband left when my stepson was 18months old, My wife was excommunicated from her church for sleeping with her first husband before they were married as was her best friend. She believes in a higher being, we have had many open debates on the subject and my stepson has been allowed to make his own decision.

I actually believe in the Christian morals even though I'm not one and remember the Bible is NOT Gods word as some like to believe but is mans interpretation of what was supposedly said, I prefer to treat it like a work of fiction and would look for it under that section in the library.

My wife has been an excellent parent to her son and I'm sure you are a good parent too Beetle, you always ask for advice and then make up your own mind what is best

prefect
07-02-2012, 03:28 PM
Christians?

Those delusion judgmental hypocritical small minded fools that have condemned every single person who doesn't follow their perverse fantasies to eternal suffering?

Why would anyone care what they think?....they are mad. Best you can do is tell your kids that they are sick and its best to avoid them.
My thoughts exactly.
There is no god. In USA they have a virginity pledge and a ring where they promise they wont chop it up till they get married.
But research shows they still root as much as the people who dont do the pledge.

Cicero
07-02-2012, 06:20 PM
My thoughts exactly.
There is no god. In USA they have a virginity pledge and a ring where they promise they wont chop it up till they get married.
But research shows they still root as much as the people who dont do the pledge.
Hypocrisy is inherent in all religions. Can't see how it could be otherwise.

Catweazle
07-02-2012, 07:16 PM
Beetle, don't be so harsh on yourself. Things usually work out. As long as you know you have done what you could you should have no worries.

I was a sole parent for about 10 years with my daughter. We had our ups and downs and a lot of people tried to interfere.

In the end I know I raised my daughter well. She's probably my best friend and we talk daily, even though shes living elsewhere with her own family now (including my only grandson.)

She is still a total daddys girl and is working towards a degree in psychology.

I'm happy to know that she will have a better life than mine. Isn't that what its about?

Keep your chin up and don't listen to others hypocrisy.

Murray P
08-02-2012, 08:55 AM
One of the best minds on the subject here............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzdeVtLMv0


Thanks for that, Cissy.

Here's a guy you, and others, might enjoy listening to. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8aWBcPVPMo)

R2x1
08-02-2012, 09:08 AM
Always remember, a person without god is like a goldfish without a bicycle. ;)

Snorkbox
08-02-2012, 09:39 AM
Yes, Beetle, we are all equal.

But some are more equal than others!!

WalOne
08-02-2012, 10:50 AM
Thanks for that, Cissy.

Here's a guy you, and others, might enjoy listening to. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8aWBcPVPMo)

I wonder if he's the guy who originally posed the question "You know the sound of two hands clapping. What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

:D

Murray P
08-02-2012, 01:42 PM
I wonder if he's the guy who originally posed the question "You know the sound of two hands clapping. What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

:D

Dunno. He was quite good on the output of nuclear weapons, so no doubt he'd have had a handle on the output of clapping, though surely when discussing the use of one hand only, the singular is applicable, i.e. the clap.

prefect
08-02-2012, 03:08 PM
Thanks for that, Cissy.

Here's a guy you, and others, might enjoy listening to. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8aWBcPVPMo)
The drakes gone? my fav avatar history?

Murray P
08-02-2012, 05:22 PM
I decided to give the blokes some privacy, hell, it's not as if they've done anything remotely salacious in all the time I've had them up there in the public glare ... hmm, wonder what they're doing now, Oh my ... :eek:

prefect
08-02-2012, 05:27 PM
I decided to give the blokes some privacy, hell, it's not as if they've done anything remotely salacious in all the time I've had them up there in the public glare ... hmm, wonder what they're doing now, Oh my ... :eek:
:stare: