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View Full Version : 5 year old attacked ... WTF is going on in this country



SP8's
22-12-2011, 01:38 PM
Here (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6179499/Tourist-aged-five-bashed-in-her-sleep)

I hope when the cops catch him, he puts up a fight ... and gets what he deserves ... :angry

gary67
22-12-2011, 01:46 PM
They should cut the offender balls off and let him bleed out

rob_on_guitar
22-12-2011, 01:46 PM
Far out.... speechless.

bob_doe_nz
22-12-2011, 02:01 PM
They should cut the offender balls off and let him bleed out +1 Nobody should ever do that and get away with it. Just remember to patch the bugger up, let him recover and make him go through all that again.

tut
22-12-2011, 02:22 PM
Please, please can I have him for 10 minutes when they catch him.

Snorkbox
22-12-2011, 02:29 PM
The anti-smacking law is not working is it?

Zippity
22-12-2011, 02:43 PM
What's the bet he saw the adults leave the caravan and thought "here's a chance to make a few bob", only to disturb the sleeping kids.

Bastards like him should be crucified or left to the mob to deal out some "fair" justice.

pctek
22-12-2011, 03:53 PM
I think it might be worse than that....burglars aren't generally bothered by 5yr old children - awake or not.

There is a need for death penalties in some situations, 5yr olds.....that's just twisted........

Metla
22-12-2011, 04:07 PM
I think it might be worse than that....burglars aren't generally bothered by 5yr old children - awake or not.

There is a need for death penalties in some situations, 5yr olds.....that's just twisted........

They are when they raise the alarm, and they can shut them up with a punch to the head.he would have watched the adults leave the caravan.

Metla
22-12-2011, 06:56 PM
Detective inspector Mark Loper said this afternoon the girl's parents were in an amenity block just metres away from the family's caravan when the mother returned to their site to find the caravan locked and a man inside lying on top of her daughter.

She screamed and ran to get her husband. When they returned the caravan door was open, the man was gone and their daughter was lying seriously injured in her bed.

..........................

pctek
22-12-2011, 07:09 PM
TV NEws, attack sexually motivated. Like I said burglars don't just bash 5 yr kids....

Bobh
22-12-2011, 07:37 PM
I only hope that the attacker is caught before Xmas and made to spend Xmas in custody, behind bars, on bread and water. After he is convicted, he would need a custodial sentence so that the public are protected from him. I would imagine that if he gets a long prison sentence he will not have a happy time. As a child molester he will not be too highly thought of by the other prisoners and thus receive the appropriate treatment. Oh dear how sad for him, never mind.

Metla
22-12-2011, 07:56 PM
TV NEws, attack sexually motivated. Like I said burglars don't just bash 5 yr kids....

Scum will strike out at anything that is raising the alarm, children, adults, dogs, whatever.

Gobe1
22-12-2011, 07:58 PM
I agree with everything said here. scum

WalOne
22-12-2011, 09:12 PM
I only hope that the attacker is caught before Xmas and made to spend Xmas in custody, behind bars, on bread and water. After he is convicted, he would need a custodial sentence so that the public are protected from him. I would imagine that if he gets a long prison sentence he will not have a happy time. As a child molester he will not be too highly thought of by the other prisoners and thus receive the appropriate treatment. Oh dear how sad for him, never mind.

Bobh, I too, hope he's caught before Christmas. Bread and water? There's bound to be some agency that will make sure he gets Christmas dinner.

But what a terrible experience for the poor child. And the distraught parents. Those are the people who need our care and support.

martynz
22-12-2011, 10:46 PM
The anti-smacking law is not working is it?

WTF has the anti-smacking law got to do with this incident?

Zippity
22-12-2011, 10:56 PM
Bread and water my arse.

A sharp needle file in the eye is what this prick deserves.

But the PC brigade will say that he came from a disturbed home and that he really is a lovely boy and the judge will give him bail and the scum will re-offend and probably kill somebody the next time..............

Metla
23-12-2011, 12:01 AM
It is an evil act on a scale beyond my ability to comprehend, He deserves death, and his name should be cursed, and every member of his family for 10 generations shamed for his actions.

My greatest sympathies to the girl and her family, the evil that has visited them will leave deep scares that will never heal no matter the outcome.

fred_fish
23-12-2011, 12:20 AM
A public hang, draw & quarter sounds appropriate.

Snorkbox
23-12-2011, 01:20 AM
WTF has the anti-smacking law got to do with this incident?

Why use WTF in asking the question?

Myth
23-12-2011, 06:10 AM
Why use WTF in asking the question?IRC etiquette dictates that a minimum of 50% of sentences must contain WTF.

Why not use it?

Also, people can say whatever punishment the attacker deserves.... but the PC brigade make the rules, and he is likely to get off with 18months Home D

Paul.Cov
23-12-2011, 06:58 AM
I can't fathom why a sexually oriented attack has left her face so damaged. Was he trying to knock her out in order to silence her?

Interesting extra bit... 10 years ago a guy was improsined 10 years for a sexual attack on a tourist at the same place... so where is that guy now? Or more specifically where was he the other night?

Some crims should not ever be left able to repeat their crimes, and violent offenders like this should lose a few body parts before ever being considered for release.

Digby
23-12-2011, 07:25 AM
I think this sort of thing was the point of Rodney Hide's 3 strikes and You're Out Law.

And National have bought it in waterered down.

And yet we had many people saying it was unfair and will not work.

Well I would be willing to bet that this scum bag will have offended before.
So over a few years that 3 strikes law will start to kick in.

All we need is to keep the law and to have the courage to build enough prisons to hold them, until criminals start to realise that it will be them next, so eventually crime will go down.

Snorkbox
23-12-2011, 10:27 AM
Why were both the Mother and Father out out the same time I wonder?

So far there is nothing that convinces me that it was not the Father that was involved.

SP8's
23-12-2011, 11:07 AM
I think this sort of thing was the point of Rodney Hide's 3 strikes and You're Out Law.

With incontrovertible DNA evidence .... it should be one strike and gone ... permanently.

Enough said.

Zippity
23-12-2011, 11:32 AM
I said the same thing to my wife last night.

God, I hope that I am wrong.

SP8's
23-12-2011, 11:53 AM
I said the same thing to my wife last night.

God, I hope that I am wrong.

Why wrong ?? What possible good can it do to NZ or the world to have Sh!theads like that going around bashing and sexually attacking innocent 5 yr olds ??? Paid taxes for years and don't see why I should have to keep someone like that in the lap of luxury (just look at the new prisons) or in a mental institution when there are people wanting help and can't get it ... something it totally screwed with the system.

prefect
23-12-2011, 12:21 PM
Cant really blame the parents this sure aint civilized Europe here, probaly no one told them about the sorts of people we have in NZ with predilection for violence.

SP8's
23-12-2011, 12:37 PM
Not just a Kiwi problem though Prefect ... it happens everywhere ... look at that German guy who kept (I think) his daughters downstairs for years, having his kids and his wife said she didn't know anything about it ...

I'm not a death penalty advocate and fully realise there have been innocent guys put to death and exonerated (posthumously) because DNA evidence that wasn't available "back in the day" has found the person wasn't connected to the crime.

On the other hand, if this little girl has been sexually assaulted and there is irrefutable DNA evidence ... take the guy out the back and shoot him.

I was trying to find an article that I looked at yesterday where a guy was out on bail for "kiddy porn" and got caught again ... how many times does it have to happen before he's locked up and kept out of the general population ?? There's been too many people let out on bail that have re-offended ... wonder whether the guy who was bailed for the murder of that journalist will adhere to his bail conditions ???

Rant over ... /BQ lunch and a few bevvies soon to end the working year ... :clap

Zippity
23-12-2011, 12:45 PM
I meant "wrong" as in, if it was the father, what a terrible waste of Police and public resources :(

Club Habitat is surrounded by lowlife and people unfit to be called humans.

SP8's
23-12-2011, 01:07 PM
From all reports, the mother returned to the caravan and found it locked ... she then went back to the (I'm guessing kitchen facilities) to get her husband ... so I guess that makes it pretty clear that the husband wasn't the "attacker" ... but .... and I'll leave it there until further reports come through.

pctek
23-12-2011, 01:33 PM
It's all over TV news, in all the papers.

Father was in amenities block on computer, Mother went to facilities, came back saw guy in locked caravan on top of her, ran screaming for husband, guy bursts out of caravan and flees, they find injured girl.

They won't say specifics about injuries other than her face and head on request from parents.

See....pretty awful. Rumors abound about the presence of Mongrel Mob party next to camp - speculation, but generally even perverts aren't that vicious...so it wouldn't surprise me.

Girls 3 yr old brother in their too, he was unharmed.

Still, can't leave your kids for 5 minutes really can you. Being tourists they probably had some silly idea NZ was safe.

mikebartnz
23-12-2011, 01:33 PM
So far there is nothing that convinces me that it was not the Father that was involved.
That is really a major jump to a silly conclusion.:groan: In the DomPost this morning the father was on a computer in the amenities room.

Iantech
23-12-2011, 01:35 PM
A public hang, draw & quarter sounds appropriate.
Far to fast. Half a tea spoon of rat poison a day until it kills him would be much better - and deny him any medical assistance or pain killers.

SP8's
23-12-2011, 01:56 PM
They really do need to bring back the "stocks" and show him off in the centre of town for a few months ... the G'ment could sell pins at ... $5 each for body ... $10 each for arms & legs, 50c each for eyes ... and $50 for "others" ...

Rat poison is far too quick Ian ...

pctek
23-12-2011, 02:39 PM
You know, designing slow tortures and deaths for these sort of people just makes us as bad. Yes it was vicious, so just shoot him. No need to descend to his level..........

Zippity
23-12-2011, 02:49 PM
Why not??

It is fun :)

SP8's
23-12-2011, 04:07 PM
That 5 yr old is going to be in hospital for some time ... my wife & I are not religious as such, but we do pray that the little girl will survive the physical abuse ... unfortunately, the mental scars that she will have to deal with may not heal as well as the physical ones ...

pctek .. not sure if you have children or not. I have a daughter, even though she is an adult now, I know, even now, shooting the "attacker" would be too easy and too damn quick to get ANY satisfaction from doing it ....

People like that deserve to die slowly and painfully ... send the message out ...

Metla
23-12-2011, 05:13 PM
I'd be happy to see him sodomized and then have his skull crushed.

Zippity
23-12-2011, 05:41 PM
I'd be happy to see him sodomized and then have his skull crushed.

Are you offering? :(

smart
23-12-2011, 05:46 PM
i hope they find who did this and give him the death penalty

WalOne
23-12-2011, 05:52 PM
We don't have one to give.

Cicero
23-12-2011, 06:36 PM
If found he will get 9 years, if that.

And that is as our do gooders would have it.

Metla
23-12-2011, 06:58 PM
Are you offering? :(

I'd need a sledgehammer a chair leg.

Digby
23-12-2011, 08:17 PM
Or get those guys from that movie set in Bratislava - forgotten its name.

Iantech
23-12-2011, 08:23 PM
Im sure the writer of The Saw could come up with a few good ideas for him.

pctek
24-12-2011, 07:40 AM
pctek .. not sure if you have children or not. I have a daughter, even though she is an adult now, I know, even now, shooting the "attacker" would be too easy and too damn quick to get ANY satisfaction from doing it ....
.

I have a son. I have a granddaughter whos 3 months of 4yrs old.

They should be removed from society - by being dead. Doesn't mean we should resort to their own sort of behaviour.


Any of you actually ever hurt another creature in a slow and bad way? If you're capable of it, then I don't want to know you.

Zippity
24-12-2011, 08:19 AM
Why on earth would you want your son and granddaughter removed from society? :( :(

WalOne
24-12-2011, 09:10 AM
Why on earth would you want your son and granddaughter removed from society? :( :(

x2. Surely you didn't mean what you wrote, pctek? :confused:

Jen
24-12-2011, 09:15 AM
Pctek was making two different statements.

Firstly she did have a child and grandchild, and secondly the offender should be removed from society (but not tortured).

Zippity
24-12-2011, 10:33 AM
I think we figured that out Jen :)

Zippity
24-12-2011, 10:35 AM
May God (or whoever you believe in) have mercy on the animal that attacked this child, because when the true facts come out, his life will NOT be worth living.

Hopefully mob rule will "snuff" him out before he gets to trial.

SP8's
24-12-2011, 11:12 AM
In the ODT (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/12451053/we-shoot-mad-dogs-don-t-we/) this morning .... well said.

prefect
24-12-2011, 12:30 PM
We could do a one off execution just need a retrospective law change.
Quick death but nothing dignified like lethal injection, hanging Iranian or Nuremberg trial style or shooting Communist china style.

pctek
24-12-2011, 12:42 PM
I have a son. I have a granddaughter whos 3 months of 4yrs old.

They should be removed from society - by being dead. Doesn't mean we should resort to their own sort of behaviour.


Any of you actually ever hurt another creature in a slow and bad way? If you're capable of it, then I don't want to know you.

They as in the people who do things like this guy did to the 5 yr old.

Cato
24-12-2011, 01:28 PM
We could do a one off execution just need a retrospective law change.
Quick death but nothing dignified like lethal injection, hanging Iranian or Nuremberg trial style or shooting Communist china style.

I recommend him being hanged, drawn and quartered.
One would gladly cover the expenses of doing it.

Zippity
24-12-2011, 01:39 PM
Hell. I'd even volunteer to be the person that swipes the horse on the rump to start the quartering :)

Cicero
24-12-2011, 04:46 PM
Hell. I'd even volunteer to be the person that swipes the horse on the rump to start the quartering :)

What has the horse done that you want to quarter it?

pctek
24-12-2011, 08:12 PM
I recommend him being hanged, drawn and quartered.

See now that's really pointless. Hang him and he's dead, why then make a mess.

WalOne
24-12-2011, 08:49 PM
See now that's really pointless. Hang him and he's dead, why then make a mess.

Pretty gruesome, really: Wikipedia tells us convicts were fastened to a trestle then drawn by horse to the place of execution. There they were hanged (almost to the point of death), emasculated, disembowelled, beheaded and quartered (chopped into four pieces). The prescribed modus operandi ensured the convict was in possession of his senses while most of that was going on, specifically the emasculation and disemboweling bit. :horrified

Cato
24-12-2011, 10:24 PM
^^ Exactly WalOne. People like him must suffer significantly before they are allowed to leave this world.

Zippity
24-12-2011, 10:55 PM
What a fantastic morbid lot we are :) :)

Rotting in Hell is too good for this creature.................

Twelvevolts
26-12-2011, 10:45 AM
It was strange how quickly the Police ruled out the Mongrel Mob - certainly made some wonder at work if the mother was giving the full story. Also seemed odd the other child slept through the whole thing. However if it is all taken at face value, the guy should be taken to one of those Turangi tent parks so those hunters can shoot randomly in the dark at him.

Bobh
26-12-2011, 11:02 AM
From what I gather this all happened in a caravan park or camping ground where a lot of people are living in close proximity. You would expect that other campers would have seen or heard something. Either people are keeping tight lipped or the Police are not allowing the media for whatever reason to publish certain details. I would hope that the Police do have a lead and do get their man.

mikebartnz
26-12-2011, 11:12 AM
It was strange how quickly the Police ruled out the Mongrel Mob - certainly made some wonder at work if the mother was giving the full story.
Not really strange at all when you consider the mother saw the guy through the window.
There have been a lot of people jumping to some pretty silly conclusions like on one site one guy reckoned it was the father.:groan:
It is certainly sad that the police haven't already caught the bastard as it would put all the pointless speculation to rest.

Zippity
26-12-2011, 12:58 PM
Obviously the Police are not going to lay all their cards out on the table for the moronic Press to adulterate.

martynz
26-12-2011, 10:24 PM
Not really strange at all when you consider the mother saw the guy through the window.
There have been a lot of people jumping to some pretty silly conclusions like on one site one guy reckoned it was the father.:groan:

On this site Snorkbox pointed his omniscient finger in that direction. Had he read or listened to the news reports?

Snorkbox
26-12-2011, 11:51 PM
On this site Snorkbox pointed his omniscient finger in that direction. Had he read or listened to the news reports?

What I said was:-
"Why were both the Mother and Father out out the same time I wonder?

So far there is nothing that convinces me that it was not the Father that was involved."

What news reports?

Twelvevolts
27-12-2011, 11:18 AM
Not really strange at all when you consider the mother saw the guy through the window.
There have been a lot of people jumping to some pretty silly conclusions like on one site one guy reckoned it was the father.:groan:
It is certainly sad that the police haven't already caught the bastard as it would put all the pointless speculation to rest.

Yes well this whole thread is speculation of course - we don't know what the Police know. Victim is alive and should be able to tell Police if she was hit by a parent.

mikebartnz
27-12-2011, 11:33 AM
Yes well this whole thread is speculation of course - we don't know what the Police know. Victim is alive and should be able to tell Police if she was hit by a parent.
Is there a point to your post apart from proving that you are also into brainless speculation?

Twelvevolts
27-12-2011, 11:41 AM
Is there a point to your post apart from proving that you are also into brainless speculation?

I bet you are one of those people who watches TV only so you complain about it.

jxer4567
27-12-2011, 11:54 AM
i personaly think its the dad cause u wuldnt smash her face up thats just persoinal and leaving it unloked and gone 4 half n hour nd y would u run and get ur husband i would scream like hel til he cums out

SP8's
27-12-2011, 12:29 PM
i personaly think its the dad cause u wuldnt smash her face up thats just persoinal and leaving it unloked and gone 4 half n hour nd y would u run and get ur husband i would scream like hel til he cums out

Bollocks ... the little girl wouldn't let her father anywhere near her if he'd been the one who did it, and I suspect that at some stage she would have said something like -"why did you hit me daddy" - she would be surrounded by police, family and nurses ... someone would have heard something or noticed a definite change in behaviour.

The Police wont be letting very much information out, but I would also suspect there would be some DNA evidence left at the scene ... unfortunately, reality doesn't copy CSI on TV and it takes time to do the testing.

mikebartnz
27-12-2011, 12:55 PM
I bet you are one of those people who watches TV only so you complain about it.
I wouldn't take up gambling.

mikebartnz
27-12-2011, 12:57 PM
i personaly think its the dad cause u wuldnt smash her face up thats just persoinal and leaving it unloked and gone 4 half n hour nd y would u run and get ur husband i would scream like hel til he cums out
What an idiotic and illiterate post.:groan::groan:

SP8's
27-12-2011, 01:47 PM
Latest here (http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/192392/persons-interest-identified-after-camping-ground-attack)

Zippity
27-12-2011, 03:00 PM
It wasn't/isn't her father that raped her.

rob_on_guitar
27-12-2011, 06:05 PM
These dad comments are pretty ****ed.

mikebartnz
27-12-2011, 08:47 PM
These dad comments are pretty ****ed.
Stop being kind.:D

SP8's
28-12-2011, 06:56 PM
They got the b'stard ... a 16 yr old .... just came on as breaking news at the end of TV3 news

Lawrence
28-12-2011, 06:56 PM
Looks like they have him,no doubt the piece of **** will get name suppression

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10775646

tut
28-12-2011, 07:02 PM
Congratulations to our Police teamsand all involved in the investigation and a big thanks from all New Zealanders.

Bobh
28-12-2011, 07:32 PM
Pleased to know that they got the culprit. Well done the Police.

Zippity
28-12-2011, 07:49 PM
what will he get?

4 years?

:(

wotz
28-12-2011, 07:55 PM
4 hours more likely

Cato
28-12-2011, 08:02 PM
what will he get?

4 years?

:(

Community based rehabilitation of some sort.
[Because we all know it, he is depressed, his family is split up, etc etc. It isn't his fault, the community is to blame.]

And that little piece of **** will rape many girls and women, and commit many crimes in his life to come.

I for one hope someone anally rapes him tonight.

SP8's
28-12-2011, 08:07 PM
Probably psych evaluation .... and hopefully chemical castration .... or a rusty hacksaw blade.

Full credit to the Police who worked over the Christmas break to get this sick b'stard off the streets ... and I was very glad to hear they weren't going to interview the little girl in case it traumatised her more. Think forensics played a big part in finding him ... hopefully he'll be receiving the maximum sentence for the crime, but not holding my breath. He may well be mentally challenged ...

Cato
28-12-2011, 08:11 PM
He may well be mentally challenged ...

You mean he was on drugs.

If he is mentally challenged, his guardians/parents/caregivers should be charged along side him.

Metla
28-12-2011, 08:23 PM
He is to appear in youth court, he will probably get a hug.

Cicero
28-12-2011, 08:24 PM
It is an evil act on a scale beyond my ability to comprehend, He deserves death, and his name should be cursed, and every member of his family for 10 generations shamed for his actions.

My greatest sympathies to the girl and her family, the evil that has visited them will leave deep scares that will never heal no matter the outcome.

I like, to the 10th generation, no half measures here.

Lets not have any pussy footing around.

Zippity
28-12-2011, 08:31 PM
And his family will call across the court room: "we love you son", "hang in there bro" and the media will suck it up.

The silly little prick didn't realise that it would be his own DNA that would finally catch him.

mikebartnz
28-12-2011, 08:34 PM
what will he get?

4 years?

:(
Slap on the hand with a wet bus ticket because of his age.

mikebartnz
28-12-2011, 08:43 PM
And his family will call across the court room: "we love you son", "hang in there bro" and the media will suck it up.

The silly little prick didn't realise that it would be his own DNA that would finally catch him.
That "hang in there bro" shows your bias but because of his age it is unlikely that we will truly know who he is.

pctek
28-12-2011, 09:25 PM
I had a perhaps unreasonable suspicion when they showed that news piece a while back with the young guy who was "first on the scene" and was commenting how awful it was and how he saw the mother holding the girl and stuff.

Watched too many Crime Channel docos perhaps but there have been rather a few cases on those where the perpetrator was helping in searches and stuff and then turns out to be the one.

I kept thinking, why is this young local guy first on the scene? Do locals hang about at motor camps? Do they just randomly wander by? Why would he have been there?

Probably not this guy at all, but he was young......they didn't show his face as I remember. I'm perhaps just a suspicious person but I wonder.......

Zippity
28-12-2011, 10:22 PM
That "hang in there bro" shows your bias but because of his age it is unlikely that we will truly know who he is.

Are you naive or just being obtuse?

mikebartnz
28-12-2011, 11:28 PM
Are you naive or just being obtuse?
Probably just as well you edited that post as I don't consider myself an idiot and I'm not naive but I also don't run around jumping to stupid conclusions all the time either.

Cato
29-12-2011, 01:06 AM
Probably just as well you edited that post as I don't consider myself an idiot and I'm not naive but I also don't run around jumping to stupid conclusions all the time either.

Maybe in time we shall know if he is right. I have a feeling he is correct in his assumption.

mikebartnz
29-12-2011, 01:31 AM
Maybe in time we shall know if he is right. I have a feeling he is correct in his assumption.
I won't deny there is a chance he will be right but several have jumped to what has since been proved to be the wrong conclusions so far. Bit of a pointless game in my opinion and so often the ones that are quick to jump to conclusions are incorrect.

Cato
29-12-2011, 01:41 AM
I am afraid given his age, and the sentiment stirred up by his crime, we will never know anything about him. And assumptions are all we have for the moment.

CliveM
29-12-2011, 07:14 AM
Probably not to hard to guess who his lawyer is likely to be. Also easy to guess the defense case. Abused background et al. If we are really lucky he will be one of the very few who get sorted and never offend again but a lot more likely nothing much will happen to him now and he will be back before the system again for a similar crime in the future.

Digby
29-12-2011, 07:19 AM
No not lets pussy foot around with this guy.

We really need a family group conference!

(He is lucky he is under 17)

Zippity
29-12-2011, 07:49 AM
A family conference be buggered!! What we need is a lynching.

And sometimes, some people know more than others about these crimes.

SP8's
29-12-2011, 07:56 AM
From memory ... I think there is provision in the law to treat him as an adult ... depending on the seriousness of the crime and whether he is found to be "sane".

Don't quote me on that ... and personally I couldn't give a monkeys whether he was sane or insane ... did the crime, do the time ... but I do have to wonder how long he would last in a prison environment, some of those guys don't like that sort of thing happening because they have kids themselves.

Bobh
29-12-2011, 09:11 AM
I read this article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6197072/Turangi-tourist-attack-Parents-relieved-at-arrest) where he was described as a 16-year-old boy who will appear in court today charged with sexual violation, aggravated wounding and burglary. Police have said that he will appear in the Taupo Youth Court today.

We can only wait and see what the outcome is. He needs to be found guilty first but lets hope that the court does not show leniency because of his age. He committed a serious adult crime and should be treated as such. The law does protect young people to the extent that they are not held accountable for their actions. Only too often young people commit crimes believing that they are untouchable and the Police cannot do anything to them. These young people often grow up with no respect for the law.

Metla
29-12-2011, 10:09 AM
From memory ... I think there is provision in the law to treat him as an adult ... depending on the seriousness of the crime and whether he is found to be "sane".

Don't quote me on that ... and personally I couldn't give a monkeys whether he was sane or insane ... did the crime, do the time ... but I do have to wonder how long he would last in a prison environment, some of those guys don't like that sort of thing happening because they have kids themselves.


Offering Youth Court jurisdiction to young people charged with more serious offences � if a young person is charged with a "purely indictable" offence (a very serious category of offending which ordinarily can only be dealt with by a jury), and indicates a desire to plead guilty (without committing themselves at this early stage), the Court, after hearing recommendations from a FGC, must decide whether to offer the young person the benefit of having their case determined in the Youth Court[14]. If the young person does not indicate a desire to plead guilty, the Youth Court holds a depositions hearing to decide whether there is sufficient evidence to put the young person on trial[15]. If there is, then the Youth Court may then make one last offer of Youth Court jurisdiction[16], which, if not made, or made and rejected, will result in a remand to an adult Court[17]

http://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/youth/publications-and-media/speeches/restorative-justice-in-the-youth-court

The youth court is primarily concerned with fluff called restorative justice, and this case looks to be firmly in their jurisdiction, they will be looking to "save" this filth, not punish him. I also wouldn't be surprised if the criteria for an "indictable offence" was a death, I know of some heinous crimes that were "sorted" through the pathetic and criminal fgc rort.

Cato
29-12-2011, 06:01 PM
And his family will call across the court room: "we love you son", "hang in there bro" and the media will suck it up.

The silly little prick didn't realise that it would be his own DNA that would finally catch him.

According to 3 News you were right.

Lawrence
29-12-2011, 06:14 PM
Wait till the 5 year old and Family are ask to attend a Marae based authoritative justice to help the 16 year old come to terms with the ordeal

Metla
29-12-2011, 06:24 PM
According to 3 News you were right.


3470

goodiesguy
29-12-2011, 06:37 PM
He's Maori, that's no surprise.

martynz
29-12-2011, 07:05 PM
He's Maori, that's no surprise.

Please explain your remark.

globe
29-12-2011, 07:23 PM
He's Maori, that's no surprise.

Racist dick.

Metla
29-12-2011, 07:29 PM
Please explain your remark.

Are you surprised?

Statistically it was highly probable, even before taking into consideration the makeup of the population in that area.

The blinkers need to come off and stay off.

rob_on_guitar
29-12-2011, 07:36 PM
I hope you 'its the dad' eggs feel a bit of ****.

mikebartnz
29-12-2011, 07:41 PM
I hope you 'its the dad' eggs feel a bit of ****.
Don't worry they will already have found something else to jump to a conclusion about.

Snorkbox
29-12-2011, 07:47 PM
Don't worry they will already have found something else to jump to a conclusion about.

I hope you were not including me in that remark.

Zippity
29-12-2011, 07:47 PM
Don't worry they will already have found something else to jump to a conclusion about.

Still farting against thunder I see.

When was the last time that you were actually correct in your predictions?

bazmeister
29-12-2011, 08:16 PM
Anyone want to give the Police credit for a major result.......must have stuffed up a bunch of family Xmas's ?

Metla
29-12-2011, 08:22 PM
Don't worry they will already have found something else to jump to a conclusion about.

You mean to say a valid assumption that is proven correct?

Sure, its tragic that it can be done, But who does that reflect badly on?

mikebartnz
29-12-2011, 08:36 PM
You mean to say a valid assumption that is proven correct?

Sure, its tragic that it can be done, But who does that reflect badly on?
There was more than one assumption made if you care to go through the threads again and if you look at the post I was replying to it might give you a hint.:groan:

Cicero
29-12-2011, 08:44 PM
Please explain your remark.

Can we assume you think the lack of suprise has no merit?
And we must therefore take it you were surpised!

globe
29-12-2011, 10:10 PM
What does his race have to do with it anyway ? It's a horrible crime and they've been caught, that's the important thing. Now we wait for sentencing, end of story. Shouldn't matter if he is black brown yellow pink or blue. Just another example of some of the bigoted morons on this forum and in this country that have to bring race into everything...

Metla
29-12-2011, 10:13 PM
What does his race have to do with it anyway ? It's a horrible crime and they've been caught, that's the important thing. Now we wait for sentencing, end of story. Shouldn't matter if he is black brown yellow pink or blue. Just another example of some of the bigoted morons on this forum and in this country that have to bring race into everything...

so, you were surprised?

are you saying someone else isn't permitted to be not surprised?

globe
29-12-2011, 10:21 PM
To me his race is irrelevant. I guess my point is if he was white would posters specifically be pointing out his make - probably not.

Am I surprised? The thing that surprises me most is his age to be honest.

Cicero
29-12-2011, 10:22 PM
These people are in denial mode.

Zippity
29-12-2011, 10:47 PM
His race has got everything to do with IT.

Unfortunately, the Pinkos like you want to walk around with their heads firmly inserted up their own **sh**es and deny that it doesn't exist, let alone matter.

Wake up and smell the roses.

Most people in this country (read the majority) have had enough!

Hopefully the offender will never get to see the inside of one of Her Majesty's homes. ie his genes will be removed from circulation.

globe
29-12-2011, 11:01 PM
His race has got everything to do with IT.

Unfortunately, the Pinkos like you want to walk around with their heads firmly inserted up their own **sh**es and deny that it doesn't exist, let alone matter.

Wake up and smell the roses.

Most people in this country (read the majority) have had enough!

Hopefully the offender will never get to see the inside of one of Her Majesty's homes. ie his genes will be removed from circulation.

You telling me only brown people abuse kids? If you believe that then you're a bigger Prat than you come across as.

Actually what I am most surprised about in this thread is that your headwear isn't a white pointy hood rather than a bike helmet.

Zippity
30-12-2011, 02:03 AM
Grow up!

CliveM
30-12-2011, 07:45 AM
I fail to see that it is racist to correctly predict the likely offender would come from a subset of the Turangi population. I also not in the least surprised at the behavior of his relatives.
I am firmly of the believe that the vast majority of the NZ population of all ethnicities are just as horrified by the actions of this idiot and his relatives as I am.
Now watch as we spend a fortune on legal aid. I do not know how some of those lawyers sleep at night except that one can be quite certain that they are very comfortable.

Myth
30-12-2011, 08:03 AM
Ok... lets look at facts - Crime happened in Turangi - could be euro or Maori. The Mongies were in town having a party close by that night ... there not may euros in the Mongrel Mob

Dude was probably prospecting ... I guess he'll get honored by the Mongies and dealt to by the rest of the population while inside .. if the PC brigade allows this

rob_on_guitar
30-12-2011, 08:53 AM
Just read an article about it where the **** faced piece of **** family are trying to defend him by saying "who leaves their kids alone in a foreign country?" and saying how the town is a mongrel mob retirement village and they never expected a **** from that town to do this. What a bunch of deluded ****ed up trash **** stain embarrassed **** faced losers.

prefect
30-12-2011, 08:59 AM
And his family will call across the court room: "we love you son", "hang in there bro" and the media will suck it up.
for Saturday
The silly little prick didn't realise that it would be his own DNA that would finally catch him.
You were correct in your predictions Zip,What are the winning lotto numbers for Saturday, you might be on a roll.

Zippity
30-12-2011, 09:32 AM
You were correct in your predictions Zip,What are the winning lotto numbers for Saturday, you might be on a roll.

I'll let you know Sunday :) :)

Twelvevolts
30-12-2011, 10:21 AM
His race has got everything to do with IT.

Unfortunately, the Pinkos like you want to walk around with their heads firmly inserted up their own **sh**es and deny that it doesn't exist, let alone matter.

Wake up and smell the roses.

Most people in this country (read the majority) have had enough!

Hopefully the offender will never get to see the inside of one of Her Majesty's homes. ie his genes will be removed from circulation.

Hopefully you will be joining him.

Zippity
30-12-2011, 10:43 AM
Hopefully you will be joining him.

One of your more intelligent postings - NOT!!!!

mikebartnz
30-12-2011, 10:58 AM
Dude was probably prospecting ... I guess he'll get honored by the Mongies and dealt to by the rest of the population while inside .. if the PC brigade allows this
I know that the Mongrel Mob are a bunch of low lifes but even they would not expect a guy to do the prospecting bit in that manner.

Chilling_Silence
30-12-2011, 11:14 AM
I know that the Mongrel Mob are a bunch of low lifes but even they would not expect a guy to do the prospecting bit in that manner.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they did.

Guys I'm all for the discussion around if you could have predicted the kid was white / brown / pink / green, but don't get personal with each other, understand?

Twelvevolts
30-12-2011, 11:24 AM
It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they did.

Guys I'm all for the discussion around if you could have predicted the kid was white / brown / pink / green, but don't get personal with each other, understand? So pleased you clarified that - racist comments are ok but any response to them and you get barred.

Zippity
30-12-2011, 11:34 AM
So pleased you clarified that - racist comments are ok but any response to them and you get barred.

Your logic defies science :)

Myth
30-12-2011, 11:53 AM
Just read an article about it where the **** faced piece of **** family are trying to defend him by saying "who leaves their kids alone in a foreign country?" and saying how the town is a mongrel mob retirement village and they never expected a **** from that town to do this. What a bunch of deluded ****ed up trash **** stain embarrassed **** faced losers.Don't hold back - tell us how you feel :p


So pleased you clarified that - racist comments are ok but any response to them and you get barred.
I lol'd

Twelvevolts
30-12-2011, 12:04 PM
Your logic defies science :)

Your science defies logic. :)

Cato
30-12-2011, 05:27 PM
You telling me only brown people abuse kids? If you believe that then you're a bigger Prat than you come across as.

We have a scary trend of child abuse which occur within a certain segment of our population. This isn't a one off incident with a child getting hurt.

While child abuse happens in all cultures and races; the fact remains, however, in cases where kids who have died or have been seriously injured, the offenders, have come from a certain minority group.
If you don't like this, go search the news archives or bring something else to the table other than calling us all racists.

CliveM
30-12-2011, 05:50 PM
Whilst there certainly is child abuse committed by pakehas I cannot think of one case where their relatives supported the offender. It is totally abhorrent for anyone to make excuses or cover up for a sick useless criminal no matter what race or how closely they are related.

johcar
30-12-2011, 05:51 PM
It seems a collection has been made for the victim and her family (http://www.3news.co.nz/Turangi-attack-accused-remains-in-custody/tabid/423/articleID/237934/Default.aspx) and the Turangi community has contributed $13K. So they can't all be bad - Turangi's not what you'd call an affluent area....


New Zealanders have donated more than $50,000 to the victim's family, $13,000 of which came from a bucket collection in Turangi.

Twelvevolts
30-12-2011, 08:08 PM
We have a scary trend of child abuse which occur within a certain segment of our population.

Would the segment be poor people by any chance?

CliveM
30-12-2011, 08:24 PM
Would the segment be poor people by any chance?

What does being poor have to do with being a sick child abuser?

Cicero
30-12-2011, 08:33 PM
What does being poor have to do with being a sick child abuser?
Try as I might, that was the best excuse that came to mind.

Pathetic, but there it is.

R2x1
30-12-2011, 08:40 PM
There's moral poverty as well as the fiscal kind.

Twelvevolts
30-12-2011, 08:45 PM
What does being poor have to do with being a sick child abuser?

Well according to a report

Poverty is significantly related to incidence rates in nearly every category of maltreatment. Compared to children whose families earned $30,000 or more, children in families with annual incomes below $15,000 were:

More than 22 times more likely to experience maltreatment under the Harm Standard and 25 times more likely under the Endangerment Standard.
More than 44 times more likely to be neglected, by either definitional standard.
Over 22 times more likely to be seriously injured using either definitional standard.
60 times more likely to die from maltreatment under the Harm Standard.

No race differences were found in maltreatment incidence.

R2x1
30-12-2011, 08:50 PM
That is a truly remarkable report.

You would get a better quality of hot air from eating beans.

globe
30-12-2011, 08:57 PM
Would the segment be poor people by any chance?

Bingo

Twelvevolts
30-12-2011, 08:58 PM
That is a truly remarkable report.

You would get a better quality of hot air from eating beans.

You'd have too ask Cato about that - who started this segment theory.

Cato
30-12-2011, 09:11 PM
Well according to a report

Poverty is significantly related to incidence rates in nearly every category of maltreatment. Compared to children whose families earned $30,000 or more, children in families with annual incomes below $15,000 were:

More than 22 times more likely to experience maltreatment under the Harm Standard and 25 times more likely under the Endangerment Standard.
More than 44 times more likely to be neglected, by either definitional standard.
Over 22 times more likely to be seriously injured using either definitional standard.
60 times more likely to die from maltreatment under the Harm Standard.

No race differences were found in maltreatment incidence.


Care to provide a link?

I have found some statistics from the 90s (because I can't find anything recent, someone care to help me??) which suggest there are racial issues involved.
The worrying thing is this:


While ethnicity data are now available for the past five years, in each of those years Mäori
and non-Mäori rates have either both increased or both decreased. While the percentage
change has differed, the overall trends are similar and separate targets are not warranted.

I am not quite sure what that means, because if the percentages have changed everything would have changed, right?
I have a feeling this is PC bullshit.


Hospitalisations for injury purposely inflicted by other persons,*ages 0–14 years, 1997
Rate per 100 000 population:
Maori: 33.0
Non-Maori: 21.7

http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/Files/phot_99_104/$file/phot_99_104.pdf

Metla
30-12-2011, 09:14 PM
Righto, we triple the amount they get on the dole and the problem is solved.

No wonder all those kids have been safer in houses where multiple family members are on the benefit.

Zippity
30-12-2011, 09:50 PM
Well according to a report

Poverty is significantly related to incidence rates in nearly every category of maltreatment. Compared to children whose families earned $30,000 or more, children in families with annual incomes below $15,000 were:

More than 22 times more likely to experience maltreatment under the Harm Standard and 25 times more likely under the Endangerment Standard.
More than 44 times more likely to be neglected, by either definitional standard.
Over 22 times more likely to be seriously injured using either definitional standard.
60 times more likely to die from maltreatment under the Harm Standard.

No race differences were found in maltreatment incidence.

Why not 21 times or 23 times?
Why not 43 times or 45 times?

What a load of bull ****!!

Where do you get this crap from?

mikebartnz
30-12-2011, 10:00 PM
Why not 21 times or 23 times?
Why not 43 times or 45 times?

What a load of bull ****!!

Where do you get this crap from?
I would recommend a book by Willard Motley by the name of "knock on any door". Very thought provoking.

radium
30-12-2011, 10:39 PM
If it was my daughter I think that I would hunt him down and kill him by whatever means.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but I think I would quite happily spend the next 10 years in prison knowing that piece of **** is dead.

I hope he gets the beating he deserves.

Twelvevolts
30-12-2011, 11:50 PM
Why not 21 times or 23 times?
Why not 43 times or 45 times?

What a load of bull ****!!

Where do you get this crap from?

I won't bother explaining how research is done to you given you never do any.

Chilling_Silence
31-12-2011, 12:07 AM
Poverty is significantly related to incidence rates in nearly every category of maltreatment. Compared to children whose families earned $30,000 or more, children in families with annual incomes below $15,000 were:

If you want to go by that, then what minority group is more likely to be in the "annual income < $15,000" in NZ?
This mentions the average hourly wage: http://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/in-print/our-publications/fact-sheets/maori-earnings/download/tpk-maoriearnings-2009-en.pdf
Or here: http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/lmr/lmr-income-survey.asp

You can also see that 35% of all those receiving a benefit are Maori: http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/lmr/maori/in-the-labour-market-2009/executive-summary.asp
That's 1 in every 3 people on the benefit are Maori, where we live in a multicultural society of European / NZ, Asian, Pacific Islanders, Indian, Maori and more. Yet I believe the Maori population is only somewhere around 1/10th of the NZ total head count.

Finally, read here for information on youth disengagement: http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/lmr/maori/in-the-labour-market-2009/summary.asp

So yes, it's not too far-fetched to agree with you that yes, it's quite possibly a Maori offender, especially in the area the offending occurred which isn't exactly known for its wealth, so again your "report" agrees with this speculation.

Personally, I'm with Radium. If somebody hurt my wife, or future kids, I'd probably hunt them down and castrate them.

pctek
31-12-2011, 07:48 AM
Being poor doesn't necessarily make you a violent child molester.
Being Maori doesn't necessarily either.

I bet the young guy was if not a wannabe Mongrel Mob, at least associated with them.
Like the news said, stabbing each other isn't considered unusual, so if you are a bit of a psychopath anyway, then you aren't going to think that's much at all.


There are plenty of sick bastards in the world who aren't poor and maori too. John Wayne Gacy comes to mind....

It's just a pity we have such lame crime sentencing in this country, it does nothing to discourage them, and teen punishment are even worse - he'll be back int the news when he's older doing some other vile thing.

CliveM
31-12-2011, 08:06 AM
I won't bother explaining how research is done to you given you never do any.
If you are going to quote research you must give the link and or full references. Otherwise it would seem that you are just making stuff up?
Without knowledge of who produced a report, how it was put together, who it was produced for and the methodology used to produce it a report is next to worthless. As anyone knows 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot by the person quoting them.;)

Myth
31-12-2011, 08:19 AM
If you are going to quote research you must give the link and or full references.....As someone who has written a paper or 2; this is one of the fundamentals. Any time one uses anothers research within their paper; then full credit must be given; or the paper is failed.

Also; watching this is like watching the lads in parliament ... draw your own conclusion

Cato
31-12-2011, 08:24 AM
As someone who has written a paper or 2; this is one of the fundamentals. Any time one uses anothers research within their paper; then full credit must be given; or the paper is failed.

A paper or two?
Bah, you're an amateur!

Hush now, child, accept everything the Prosecutor says as you would the word of God!

mikebartnz
31-12-2011, 09:39 AM
and teen punishment are even worse
That in my view is one of the real problems as the young don't learn the true consequences of their actions.

Cicero
31-12-2011, 09:42 AM
That in my view is one of the real problems as the young don't learn the true consequences of their actions.
We learn these things from our parents, if we are lucky enough to have parents who know right from wrong, this lot have no idea about morality.

Twelvevolts
31-12-2011, 09:59 AM
If you want to go by that, then what minority group is more likely to be in the "annual income < $15,000" in NZ?
This mentions the average hourly wage: http://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/in-print/our-publications/fact-sheets/maori-earnings/download/tpk-maoriearnings-2009-en.pdf
Or here: http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/lmr/lmr-income-survey.asp

You can also see that 35% of all those receiving a benefit are Maori: http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/lmr/maori/in-the-labour-market-2009/executive-summary.asp
That's 1 in every 3 people on the benefit are Maori, where we live in a multicultural society of European / NZ, Asian, Pacific Islanders, Indian, Maori and more. Yet I believe the Maori population is only somewhere around 1/10th of the NZ total head count.

Finally, read here for information on youth disengagement: http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/lmr/maori/in-the-labour-market-2009/summary.asp

So yes, it's not too far-fetched to agree with you that yes, it's quite possibly a Maori offender, especially in the area the offending occurred which isn't exactly known for its wealth, so again your "report" agrees with this speculation.


Maori are over represented in the lower socio-economic groups - that is well known. I didn't postulate this segment theory so the onus is on those who are proposing it to prove the case. Given it appears that these folk reject the well established link between socio-economic group and crime, they must have another theory which appears to be that crime is based on race.




Personally, I'm with Radium. If somebody hurt my wife, or future kids, I'd probably hunt them down and castrate them.

The natural feeling everyone would have - but most likely you wouldn't do it because you'd be letting down your family by being in jail. There is plenty in the news at the moment to get angry about including this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10776010).

Quote from the article.


"I was quite angry, but the nice people in the house dragged me away and gave me something to wipe my face because there was blood and all that. They pulled me aside, tried to get me to sit down and they gave me water, but I walked back down to the scene.

"I looked at [the driver] across the road and he was standing there and couldn't admit what he'd done, going on about, 'It's not my fault, I didn't want to drive, it's not my fault, I didn't want to drive'.

"My wheel brace was outside my ute, and honestly, I was going to pick it up and deal to him.

"Then I heard a lady say, 'There's one dead and one under the car', and it went from anger to sadness ... and I just walked away."

Personally I was damn angry about both these cases - but at the end of the day Brett McGready did the right thing by his family in walking away, you'd likely do the same when it came to the crunch.

mikebartnz
31-12-2011, 10:05 AM
We learn these things from our parents, if we are lucky enough to have parents who know right from wrong, this lot have no idea about morality.
While it is true that the parents have the most influence schools no longer have an effective way of disaplining kids and the youth court is much the same. The trouble with the youth court is there is no shame attached to the kids. Their names aren't published in a news paper or anything like that.

Twelvevolts
31-12-2011, 10:18 AM
While it is true that the parents have the most influence schools no longer have an effective way of disaplining kids and the youth court is much the same. The trouble with the youth court is there is no shame attached to the kids. Their names aren't published in a news paper or anything like that.

Schools have many effective ways of discipline kids, certainly kept my kids in line.

Youth Court - worked really well from my perspective as the victim of a burglary (and I got paid full reparation).

As Steven Pinkers "The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined" (http://www.amazon.com/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0670022950) outlines - we live in the safest time anyone has ever lived in, and violence continues to decline in the western world.

Interesting you think shaming people is an effective tactic - usually has the opposite effect I'd have thought.

mikebartnz
31-12-2011, 11:06 AM
Youth Court - worked really well from my perspective as the victim of a burglary (and I got paid full reparation).
I am very happy it worked for you but we had a twelve year old thieving lad a couple of doors down from us and it had very little affect on him.


Interesting you think shaming people is an effective tactic - usually has the opposite effect I'd have thought.
Shaming works in a similar way to peer pressure. At one time they used to have lists of people in the DomPost who had been done for DIC and years ago bankrupts used to be listed as well as court appearances. While it never stopped it I am sure there were a number who were put off because of the shame involved. I certainly didn't want to be listed in any of those.
I am very interested in why you think it would have the opposite effect. I could understand it with the likes of the Mongrel Mob but luckily they aren't the majority.

Twelvevolts
31-12-2011, 11:35 AM
I am very happy it worked for you but we had a twelve year old thieving lad a couple of doors down from us and it had very little affect on him.


Shaming works in a similar way to peer pressure. At one time they used to have lists of people in the DomPost who had been done for DIC and years ago bankrupts used to be listed as well as court appearances. While it never stopped it I am sure there were a number who were put off because of the shame involved. I certainly didn't want to be listed in any of those.
I am very interested in why you think it would have the opposite effect. I could understand it with the likes of the Mongrel Mob but luckily they aren't the majority.

Probably not quite an 80/20 rule, but maybe a 95/5.

My experience at school was that the cane kept the majority under control through fear, but had no impact whatsoever on about 5% or so of students who wanted to cause trouble.

Youth Court/Police diversion as well will impact on the majority of kids, who will make one appearance and never be seen again. It won't impact on those who are intent on causing trouble.

Publication of names same thing - it will work on most but almost becomes a badge of honour for those it doesn't work on.

All Drink driver names are still in the paper by the way.

Metla
31-12-2011, 11:35 AM
Youth Court - worked really well from my perspective as the victim of a burglary (and I got paid full reparation).



Works even better from the perspective of the offenders.

mikebartnz
31-12-2011, 11:56 AM
Probably not quite an 80/20 rule, but maybe a 95/5.
Not quite sure what you are on about there.


My experience at school was that the cane kept the majority under control through fear, but had no impact whatsoever on about 5% or so of students who wanted to cause trouble.
We had two forms of punishment at school for bad offenses. Hard labour and the cane and it depended who was giving the cane but mostly we took the cane.
The majority is all you are going to ever have an affect on no matter what.


Youth Court/Police diversion as well will impact on the majority of kids, who will make one appearance and never be seen again. It won't impact on those who are intent on causing trouble.
I would like to know where you get that the majority will be impacted for the better there.


Publication of names same thing - it will work on most but almost becomes a badge of honour for those it doesn't work on.
As I said before it is only the likes of the Mongrel Mob types which will consider it a badge of honour and luckily they are a minority.

Twelvevolts
31-12-2011, 05:46 PM
Not quite sure what you are on about there.

Pareto principle



We had two forms of punishment at school for bad offenses. Hard labour and the cane and it depended who was giving the cane but mostly we took the cane.
The majority is all you are going to ever have an affect on no matter what. Cane doesn't impact the ones it is meant to and the majority wouldn't step out of place anyway.



I would like to know where you get that the majority will be impacted for the better there.

Many teenagers skirt on the edge of the law. Police diversion and the like generally is enough to put them back on track. I've had a lot to do with coaching sports teams, you get to know that between 16 - 18 a lot of teenagers go off the tracks in some way, but youth aid and the like sort them out quickly. Youth Courts and the like are never going to divert the high end offenders, that is why the Government is looking for a new approach under welfare reform provisions.



As I said before it is only the likes of the Mongrel Mob types which will consider it a badge of honour and luckily they are a minority. The mongrel mob types are the ones you guys harp on about. However if you set the rules for the likes of Youth Court for them, you'll drag a whole lot of kids who currently only get a warning or community service into the Criminal Justice system, and once they're in they will unfortuntely be influenced by the people already there.

Metla
31-12-2011, 05:55 PM
The mongrel mob types are the ones you guys harp on about. However if you set the rules for the likes of Youth Court for them, you'll drag a whole lot of kids who currently only get a warning or community service into the Criminal Justice system, and once they're in they will unfortuntely be influenced by the people already there.

Rubbish, make it two offenses in a year and your bumped into adult court and guaranteed a custodial sentence, That will remove the scumbags laughing at the youth court and its system of enabling criminals to continually offend, and the "majority" that you believe are somehow scared straight, well, they have been scared straight so it won't effect them, It will just lock the dirt bags up with the adults they aspire to be.

And a sentence in line with the crime should be applied at all levels, I know a guy who slit the throat of another person who was unarmed,hacked open his chest, stabbed him twice in the back and then stabbed a second person in the groin, This went to fGC, they came up with foster care with weekends at home, this would last for 6 months.

One of the families involved said no way, they were ignored (in fact im yet to see a reason for the victims family attending a fgc) and that was that, The man still carries a knife but now he is addicted to the needle he pokes in his arm.

Twelvevolts
31-12-2011, 08:48 PM
I know a guy who slit the throat of another person who was unarmed, hacked open his chest, stabbed him twice in the back and then stabbed a second person in the groin.

You really should keep better company.

Youth Court doesn't deal with Manslaughter or Murder other than as an entry point, do you just make this stuff up???

Metla
31-12-2011, 09:27 PM
You really should keep better company.

Youth Court doesn't deal with Manslaughter or Murder other than as an entry point, do you just make this stuff up???

Would you like to see the scars?

Cicero
01-01-2012, 08:46 AM
Ooooh, no, we just like to talk about it.

gary67
01-01-2012, 09:54 AM
My experience at school was that the cane kept the majority under control through fear, but had no impact whatsoever on about 5% or so of students who wanted to cause trouble.



Unfortunately in my experience, now there is no cane or slipper that 5% has now grown to around 25-30% causing trouble who wouldn't have before the cane ended

Chilling_Silence
01-01-2012, 11:49 AM
I like the letter here:
http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/

"We shoot mad dogs don’t we?"
(24th December 2011)

prefect
01-01-2012, 01:04 PM
I like the letter here:
http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/

"We shoot mad dogs don’t we?"
(24th December 2011)

Not only was the attacker not shot, he is supported by whanau.
I have 16 and 14 year old sons, if one of them did this they would no longer be considered family, I would never want to see the scum again.
Thats the difference between them and me.
I would be doing my utmost to help the victim and family if they wanted it for as long as they wanted it. I wouldnt just "move on" as the saying goes..

Chilling_Silence
12-01-2012, 04:05 PM
I don't know of any non-Maori family wanting to read a Karakia:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6247053/Turangi-attack-accused-to-plead-guilty

If any of my family or friends did anything like that, I certainly wouldn't stand by in support of them!

prefect
12-01-2012, 04:16 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6247053/Turangi-attack-accused-to-plead-guilty
These people make me sick.

Zippity
12-01-2012, 04:28 PM
Like a prayer to God is going to save this useless piece of **** :( :(

Rape a 5 year old and face the consequences.

Death at the hands of someone else will be too kind for this creep.

Cato
12-01-2012, 04:28 PM
More than a dozen friends and family sat in the public gallery in support of the teenager, who cannot be named because of his age.

Ahaha. Who would have thought?

Someone should kill the lot of them.

fred_fish
12-01-2012, 04:40 PM
The 16-year-old's mother read a karakia prepared by the accused in which he asked God to forgive him.
He should be given the opportunity to ask in person ...