PDA

View Full Version : I hope those that live in Auckland have other means of Transport.



Snorkbox
20-12-2011, 01:37 AM
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/94163/upgrade-work-to-disrupt-auckland-rail-service

Don't expect to go anywhere in Auckland on Christmas Day via public transport then.

Cicero
20-12-2011, 06:43 AM
Dear me, what is the world coming too?

prefect
20-12-2011, 06:46 AM
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/94163/upgrade-work-to-disrupt-auckland-rail-service

Don't expect to go anywhere in Auckland on Christmas Day via public transport then.
Trains pretty well empty on weekends and holidays. Would have thought they would stop the lot trains and buses and let the staff have a day off.

CliveM
20-12-2011, 07:03 AM
Trains are not very well patronized in Ak anyway particularly on weekends or holidays. They do not go many places that suit most of the population. They are ok for those who live and work somwhere along the line but that is a quite small number of us. They are not and probably never will be a practical method to travel here.

pcuser42
20-12-2011, 07:19 AM
Trains have never run on Christmas Day or Good Friday in Auckland anyway, the drivers have to have some time off...

Some of the works they're doing include regrading the line at Parnell to put in a new station, this means ripping up the line, digging out the ground and relaying the tracks. Obviously trains can't run while this happens.


Trains are not very well patronized in Ak anyway

You might want to actually ride one during the peak before saying that ;)

And please don't forget Wellington are working on their lines too :p

johcar
20-12-2011, 07:21 AM
Public transport? In Auckland? What's that?

inphinity
20-12-2011, 07:22 AM
The only trains I see in Auckland are Thomas & Friends toys. Won't make a zip of difference if they stop them or not.

pcuser42
20-12-2011, 07:22 AM
Public transport? In Auckland? What's that?

Awesomeness :D

johcar
20-12-2011, 07:27 AM
The only trains I see in Auckland are Thomas & Friends toys. Won't make a zip of difference if they stop them or not.

Very true - the World Cup Rugby matches have all been played at Eden Park....

Roscoe
20-12-2011, 09:15 AM
Trains are not very well patronized in Ak anyway particularly on weekends or holidays. They do not go many places that suit most of the population. They are ok for those who live and work somwhere along the line but that is a quite small number of us. They are not and probably never will be a practical method to travel here.

My experience of train travel in Auckland is that they are very well patronised. I take the 5.16 from Britomart to Onehunga and you have to be very quick to get a seat. It is standing room only and there are plenty of people standing.

Britomart Station is very crowded after 5pm. There are trains departing every few minutes.

Granted, trains are fine for those who live near the line, but to say that that is a very small number is not matched by the number of people I see in the station and on the trains every day.

Figures show that patronage is increasing and so the amount of work that has been done on the system and the work still to be done seems to be justified.

Trains are, and always have been, a very practical method of travel. They shift many more people than buses can do and they do it much quicker than buses. For example, the 5.15 bus from Auckland arrives in Onehunga at 6.15. The 5.16 train from Britomart arrives in Onehunga at 5.41. Buses take an hour in the quiet times and anything up to 75min in the 'rush' hour, depending on the traffic. Trains take the same time all the time.

I am really looking forward to the new electric trains that are coming to Auckland in the next year or so.

CliveM
20-12-2011, 12:56 PM
Note I said trains are fine if you happen to live and work in reasonably close proximity to the line. 90% of us do not. I have spent a lot of time working in view of the near empty trains going past south of Otahuhu. Perhaps all the trains are full on the other lines but I tend to doubt it. Public transport in Ak only works for some. Try figuring out the economics of traveling from say Howick to Onehunga for example. It is a lot quicker and cheaper to go by private vehicle.

pctek
20-12-2011, 01:35 PM
My experience of train travel in Auckland is that they are very well patronised. I take the 5.16 from Britomart to Onehunga and you have to be very quick to get a seat.

I live in Ranui - there is a train station down the road.
But I work in Albany, no train tracks here.

And too slow, too expensive, most places I've worked have not been on thr route. This is why we all put up with the traffic, we have to.

Agent_24
20-12-2011, 07:25 PM
I haven't been on a train in a while now - that stupid patronising voice they have now to announce the stations coming up and which also tells you to mind the step (as if everyone is a complete idiot) makes me grind my teeth in anger. Not going to listen to that tripe and rot my brain.

pcuser42
20-12-2011, 08:00 PM
I haven't been on a train in a while now - that stupid patronising voice they have now to announce the stations coming up and which also tells you to mind the step (as if everyone is a complete idiot) makes me grind my teeth in anger. Not going to listen to that tripe and rot my brain.

Stupid? I quite like Nathaniel Lees :)

And only half the trains have them anyway...


And too slow

As Roscoe mentioned, they're faster than the bus.


too expensive

A monthly pass costs me $180 a month. This is far cheaper than fuel alone for any of our cars, never mind parking costs.


This is why we all put up with the traffic, we have to.

Who said? ;)


Note I said trains are fine if you happen to live and work in reasonably close proximity to the line. 90% of us do not.

90% sounds far too high...


I have spent a lot of time working in view of the near empty trains going past south of Otahuhu.

Bear in mind that there are a lot of empty movements in and out of Otahuhu as trains stable there. The longer trains especially typically run a few runs then run empty from Britomart to Westfield.

Agent_24
20-12-2011, 10:57 PM
Stupid? I quite like Nathaniel Lees :)

Not when you have to sit there for an hour or so travelling almost the entire western line listening to this "mind the step" crap every 5 minutes as if we are all stupid idiots who can't figure out how to walk out of a train without accidentally killing ourselves!

People have had trains for a long time, you can bet 99% of people managed to get on and off without dying or getting maimed all without some voice telling them what to do.

I don't care who did the voice recordings, I find the whole thing insulting to my intelligence as a person who knows how to walk out of a train.


In the same vein, what's up with the big yellow and black striped stickers they put all over the doors a couple of years ago? Another pointless excercise in 'safety' no doubt.

If someone is too stupid to figure out where the door is, and needs guidance in remembering to watch their step (and also must be reminded what station they're at) then they probably shouldn't be allowed outside their own house without someone to personally help them anyway, at which point the annoying voice would be redundant!

pcuser42
20-12-2011, 11:23 PM
Not when you have to sit there for an hour or so travelling almost the entire western line listening to this "mind the step" crap every 5 minutes as if we are all stupid idiots who can't figure out how to walk out of a train without accidentally killing ourselves!

It's entertaining :)

pctek
21-12-2011, 06:36 AM
As Roscoe mentioned, they're faster than the bus.


A monthly pass costs me $180 a month. This is far cheaper than fuel alone for any of our cars, never mind parking costs.



But not faster than me.

That's more than I spend on petrol now.

And what parking cost?

CliveM
21-12-2011, 07:08 AM
Starting to look like pcuser42 is a member of Len Brown's fan club.

pcuser42
21-12-2011, 09:30 AM
Starting to look like pcuser42 is a member of Len Brown's fan club.

Well of course, I didn't want John Banks in ;) (Disclaimer: I was too young to vote in the local election)

I can debunk your statements all day Clive. Fact is PT use is increasing and private car use is decreasing. ;) And as a railfan I can get inside knowledge of rail operations :D


And what parking cost?

The $16 a day cost at the university.

CliveM
21-12-2011, 11:48 AM
It will be interesting to see if you still think the same when you have been around for a few more years. My children all seemed to go through a "save the world, lefty, greenie" phase but now have a more balanced outlook on life. I guess working for a living and raising a family tends to do that to most of us. :)

pcuser42
21-12-2011, 11:53 AM
It will be interesting to see if you still think the same when you have been around for a few more years. My children all seemed to go through a "save the world, lefty, greenie" phase but now have a more balanced outlook on life. I guess working for a living and raising a family tends to do that to most of us. :)

Bit hard when I'm this deep in :p

Also there's plenty of other people you can talk to, including someone who's an Apple geek for a living and a former signalman ;)

darkie
21-12-2011, 12:40 PM
Starting to look like pcuser42 is a member of Len Brown's fan club.
Starting to look like CliveM is a myopic National supporter.

You've not researched your facts at all, and base your judgements of the Auckland rail network based upon the view from the navy blue swivel chair you sip your latte from in Otahuhu. These are the facts that certain politicians didn't want to know about during their 2008 term:

Fact: Auckland rail patronage has grown 15% year upon year, 300% since the early 90s.
Fact: Auckland's rail capacity has been reached - with trains full of passengers from all lines, and there not being any capacity at any junction in the network to add more trains to relieve pressure.
Fact: Trains are well patronised during the weekend, particularly for those going to shopping destinations such as Sylvia Park, Dressmart, Westfield WestCity, etc.
Fact: We face a shutdown at Christmas in order to improve the frequency, reliability and capacity of the rail network. As most people are taking their usual once a year trip on the Holiday Highway to get to the beaches of Northland, the network is naturally lightly patronised.

Open your mind, CliveM. We're not all blue-blooded, petrol-headed Windows trolls.

CliveM
21-12-2011, 02:51 PM
I am more than happy to listen to other viewpoints on almost any subject. On rare occasions I am convinced that I have been mistaken and change my own view. Not often though :).
Darkie because you state something does not make it a fact. If you wish to quote statistics at the very least give references otherwise it is just a lot of garbage you have made up.

darkie
21-12-2011, 02:56 PM
I am more than happy to listen to other viewpoints on almost any subject. On rare occasions I am convinced that I have been mistaken and change my own view. Not often though :).
Darkie because you state something does not make it a fact. If you wish to quote statistics at the very least give references otherwise it is just a lot of garbage you have made up.

Of course, Auckland Transport publishes its statistics monthly via its business reports available on its site, along with a rail performance report which tells of all Aucklands woes. If you had done your research, you'd know where I got my stats from before coming to your unsubstantiated conclusions.

pcuser42
21-12-2011, 03:43 PM
Of course, Auckland Transport publishes its statistics monthly via its business reports available on its site, along with a rail performance report which tells of all Aucklands woes. If you had done your research, you'd know where I got my stats from before coming to your unsubstantiated conclusions. That, and most trains show brief monthly performance results inside.

CliveM
21-12-2011, 07:33 PM
That is a sales pitch by vested interests not valid statistics. The rail plan for Ak was produced by the people that run it not by impartial experts.

xpresshred
21-12-2011, 07:35 PM
They do not go many places that suit most of the population. They are ok for those who live and work somewhere along the line but that is a quite small number of us.

darkie
21-12-2011, 07:39 PM
That is a sales pitch by vested interests not valid statistics. The rail plan for Ak was produced by the people that run it not by impartial experts.

The rail plan? What rail plan are you referring to?

If you're referring to a certain CBD Rail Link, don't make me start list the number of independent, impartial consultants assigned to the project - all of which are known names. As for the business reports I referred to:

http://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/about-us/board-members/Board-Meetings-Minutes/Pages/board-reports-2011.aspx
http://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/about-us/publications/Reports/Pages/Public-Transport-Patronage-Reports.aspx

and with regards to rail performance issues and why our network is beyond capacity now:

http://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/about-us/board-members/BoardofDirectors/Documents/Agenda%20item%209(i)%20-Open%20-%20%20Rail%20Services%20Performance.pdf

pcuser42
21-12-2011, 07:42 PM
They do not go many places that suit most of the population. They are ok for those who live and work somewhere along the line but that is a quite small number of us.

By my calculations 40% of the entire Auckland region are within 1km of a railway station. That is hardly a "small number".

darkie
21-12-2011, 07:45 PM
By my calculations 40% of the entire Auckland region are within 1km of a railway station. That is hardly a "small number".

And, at this time Auckland Transport is slowly reviewing the bus network in an effort to rationalise routes and ensure that some routes begin to feed the rail network. This extends the reach of the rail network quite effectively, and with the introduction of integrated ticketing, switching between modes of transport becomes affordable and trivial.

R2x1
21-12-2011, 08:02 PM
Careful calculation indicates that 100% of me is not living within 1KM of a railway station, and has never been, at least in this country. 30 KM would be a reasonable average.

CliveM
21-12-2011, 08:31 PM
Darkie AKA pcuser42?

pcuser42
21-12-2011, 08:34 PM
Darkie AKA pcuser42?

No, darkie aka. an Apple geek, so can't be me ;)

darkie
21-12-2011, 08:39 PM
Darkie AKA pcuser42?

I don't believe pcuser42 to be the type to stoop to creating troll accounts. I do all my own trolling. :P

Snorkbox
21-12-2011, 08:47 PM
That is a sales pitch by vested interests not valid statistics. The rail plan for Ak was produced by the people that run it not by impartial experts.

So you have better statistics?

Roscoe
29-12-2011, 04:34 PM
3469

An update from the New Zealand Railway Observer, December January and a picture of the new units.

"Auckland Transport signed a purchase and maintenance contract with Spanish manufacturer Construccionnes y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles SA (CAF) on 6th October for 57 three-car electric multiple units following a funding and ownership deal with the government. The first units should be in service by the end of 2013. The government has provided a $500 million loan to Auckland Transport on concessionary terms and a grant of $90 million.

CAF is to maintain the units until 2026 in a new maintenance facility being built in Wiri. In the three car set, the middle car is a trailer, with the other two being powered. Each car will be able to take 120 passengers, both seated and standing. Acceleration of the new units will be twice the rate of the present deisel powered units and of course, quieter. This will mean that a journey between Papatoetoe and Britomart will be shortened by 10 minutes.

Auckland Transport predicts that trips on the network will increase from 9.7 million this year to 17.3 million by 2016. At peak times the units will be able to operate at 10-minute intervals."

Ulsterman
30-12-2011, 10:14 AM
Thanks so much for that, Roscoe. Very interesting. The new units look very nice. I wonder if they are going to paint the front of each unit yellow as they have done with the diesel units?

I have been watching progress on the Auckland southern line and I see that they are installing the poles that will carry the electric lines for the trains. I am really looking forward to trying out the new units when they arrive. As you may have gathered - I like trains.

Cicero
30-12-2011, 10:41 AM
- I like trains.
We all have our interests- I like thighs.

R2x1
30-12-2011, 11:09 AM
3469

An update from the New Zealand Railway Observer, December January and a picture of the new units.

. . . At peak times the units will be able to operate at 10-minute intervals."

For the other 9-1/2 minutes they just sort of sit and buzz? ;)

pcuser42
30-12-2011, 11:21 AM
We all have our interests- I like thighs. Why not both? :p

Richard
30-12-2011, 12:31 PM
We all have our interests- I like thighs.

I'm a tit man myself Cicero. But I also like swallows and robins.

Roscoe
30-12-2011, 02:06 PM
I'm a tit man myself Cicero.

What happened to the trains???

Isn't it amazing how a thread about trains turns into the desire for the basic instinct!:rolleyes: Where else but PF1!! I'm ashamed of you lot.

johcar
30-12-2011, 03:13 PM
Note I said trains are fine if you happen to live and work in reasonably close proximity to the line. 90% of us do not.

<snip>
90% sounds far too high...

</snip>

Population estimate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland) for Greater Auckland is 1,377,200. Of that, 229,000 live on the North Shore (estimate as at June 2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Shore_City)), so that's 16.6% to start with that live nowhere near a rail line.

There are lots more people out in Titirangi, Green Bay, Hillsborough, Mt Roskill, Massey, Hobsonville, Howick, Botany and similar areas without direct access to a rail line. I think you could easily get close to the "90% of Aucklanders" figure, estimated by CliveM...

And as CliveM says, as is true of public transport in general, it's fine if you live close to a pick-up point (so you don't have to use the dreaded car!!) and the public transport is going close to where you need it to go and when you need it to go (at both ends of the day - and heaven forbid if you want/need to work a bit later or get to work a bit earlier!!).

If you live on the Shore and work in East Tamaki, it's a damn sight easier to drive your car than to attempt the couple of hours each way (at least) hassle, changing modes and vehicles and hoping another one will be along in a moment...

(Disclaimer: I live on the Shore, drive to the ferry and walk to work on the other side. Luckily, ferry services are fairly regular from about 6.30am until nearly midnight.)

pcuser42
30-12-2011, 04:19 PM
What happened to the trains???

Isn't it amazing how a thread about trains turns into the desire for the basic instinct!:rolleyes: Where else but PF1!! I'm ashamed of you lot.

Dunno about you but even I would be more interested in a girl than a train :p

Richard
30-12-2011, 04:41 PM
What happened to the trains???

Isn't it amazing how a thread about trains turns into the desire for the basic instinct!:rolleyes: Where else but PF1!! I'm ashamed of you lot.

Whaddya mean? I was talking about birds.

johcar
30-12-2011, 05:11 PM
Whaddya mean? I was talking about birds.

...in the 1960's, Austin Powers sense of the word... :D

Roscoe
04-01-2012, 09:36 AM
I understand that the line to Papatoetoe and the Onehunga line are to be the first to have the new electrics.

I have seen the workers on the Onehunga line and the catenary has been erected on about 90% of the line. Unfortunately, at the present there are no poles, and therefore no catenary, on the main line so the Onehunga catenary will be isolated for a few months to come. But, at least, it is a sign of things happening. Looking forward to the new electrics.

darkie
04-01-2012, 09:43 AM
I understand that the line to Papatoetoe and the Onehunga line are to be the first to have the new electrics.

I have seen the workers on the Onehunga line and the catenary has been erected on about 90% of the line. Unfortunately, at the present there are no poles, and therefore no catenary, on the main line so the Onehunga catenary will be isolated for a few months to come. But, at least, it is a sign of things happening. Looking forward to the new electrics.

Indeed the line between Wiri and Penrose, and Onehunga and Britomart via Penrose will be electrified, but public services will only be running on the Onehunga Line. Traction mast bases have been installed from Penrose to Newmarket now, so it is a matter of installing the traction masts, then the catenary. I would say that some of the mast installation would be carried out over Waitangi Weekend, and subsequent odd weekends where the network will be entirely closed. Anniversary Weekend only sees a similar closure to what we're experiencing now, with wrong-line running in effect from Pukekohe (Paerata rather) to Otahuhu, and a block-of-line from Westfield north on the Main Trunk.

Roscoe
04-01-2012, 10:17 AM
Anniversary Weekend only sees a similar closure to what we're experiencing now, with wrong-line running in effect from Pukekohe (Paerata rather) to Otahuhu, and a block-of-line from Westfield north on the Main Trunk.

Thanks for that darkie. Will you tell me what those two terms mean, please.

darkie
04-01-2012, 10:28 AM
Thanks for that darkie. Will you tell me what those two terms mean, please.

A block of line completely closes an entire line (all tracks) between two points. No train movements can proceed, except work trains that are performing maintenance/construction duties, and these are controlled by Train Control in Wellington, and the work site safety manager who communicates with both Train Control and the locomotive engineer (driver).

Wrong-line running operates in double-track areas, and allows one of the tracks to be used during a closure, with trains travelling in both directions on a track normally designated for one direction. This usually requires paper forms to be written by the locomotive engineer with instructions of where the wrong-line running begins and ends, the speed at which he is allowed to travel at, etc and these are dictated to him by radio from Train Control. Because this process of getting authorisation for wrong-line running of a train takes some time, and because only one train can occupy the block at a time, freight trains are generally the only trains that run in areas affected by wrong-line running. This allows Kiwirail to continue freight train operations without bringing to a halt the maintenance and construction works they are carrying out around the network. Freight trains leaving Auckland are container transfer trains heading from Southdown to various other container transfer sites south of Auckland.

Hope that explains things better - my apologies for the jargon! Oh, and yes, I'm a rail fan, with numerous friends that work in the industry. Hope that clears THAT up for you!

Roscoe
04-01-2012, 10:52 AM
Thanks for that, darkie. The explanation was most enlightening.

I, too, and a rail fan, but do not have any friends in the industry so find out things as I can.

I am most interested in the work around the Auckland network and am looking forward to having a ride on the new electrics.

:thanks

pcuser42
05-01-2012, 08:59 AM
As far as I can see, electrification has been complete around Swanson and Onehunga. :)

darkie
05-01-2012, 09:59 AM
Well, at least we can say we have a glorified bug zapper on the tracks in those parts. Gets rid of the pests messing around in the corridor!

Roscoe
06-01-2012, 09:48 AM
By my calculations 40% of the entire Auckland region are within 1km of a railway station. That is hardly a "small number".

That does sound reasonably substantial. Perhaps they could increase that number, by doing as Sydney does, and have the buses feed the trains. That would be a good start.

Also interesting to note that when Perth began running their electric trains a few years back (we bought their old diesel units) patronage increased from 7 million in 1991 to 30 million in 1997, a more than four fold increase. I'm certain the same sort of increase will happen here.