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Myth
18-12-2011, 01:03 PM
Ok, so I have finally had enough of Orcon and their bs service/reliability

We moved into this house July this year. Since then we have had no end of issues with Orcon and the idiots in technical
Orcon switched the phone and broadband over and said "all go"
We got here and had no phone/net
3 days later, the net was fixed.

Since then - we have never had a reliable phone service with them
We can receive calls always, can ring out occassionally. Other times we just get the continuous dial "ready" tone, even after dialling the number. Sometimes we are getting dropped off mid-call. Even dialling 111 does nothing - just in case this is treated seperately (unsure).

So; we changed phones... only to discover the new phone was more sensitive to what was happening with the line than the old phone.
Both phones are cordless for the record
We also have use of an old phone which is non cordless and works everytime :x But this is not ours and we need cordless (well SWMBO does).

We also did the filters test.. and changed one of the filters.
No improvement.

So we have constantly been in contact with them via phone (when we can call out) and email

They have sent the technician out who disconnected the house alarm from the line (it wasnt monitored anyway) and checked all our phone lines. He said the line was good all through the house, and all the way back to the exchange. The exchange has been recently upgraded as well by Orcon. The tech (Chorus) said he couldn't test further back.. something to do with Telecom lines? (SWMBO was speaking to him as I was at work).

Recently I emailed them again and had times that the phone was dropping/not calling out/internet was down.
They replied (after the normal 2 week delay) that he could see we are able to call out so the issue must be resolved. This is not the first email we have had with that reply - probably the third or fourth. I am at wits end.

Any suggestions please????

p.s I am ready to tell these a-holes to f off. Suggestions for a reliable ISP?

Nomad
18-12-2011, 01:10 PM
Actrix is quite good. No contract either.

It could your phoneline :confused:

Myth
18-12-2011, 01:58 PM
The phoneline has been tested by the technician

Chilling_Silence
18-12-2011, 02:22 PM
OK a few things come to mind:
- Is it VoIP line or is it a physical landline? Coz if you can plug a cored phone in and a cordless in, and the corded always works, then that indicates to me that it's an issue at your end. If you said the corded always failed as well, that's a line / wiring issue which means if you've got the wiring & Maintenance then Chorus will rewire it for free.
- When your internet cuts off, what happens with your phone line? Use the corded, not the cordless
- How many jackpoints around your home do you have? If you're using a cordless you could get them all disconnected and have just *one* to use the Cordless phones with.
- You said you've replaced the filters (Or at least one), why not get the line split so you have a dedicated wall jack just for your router?

It sounds like you need to call up, and calmly ask for a resolutions manager to look in to your case as you are still having ongoing intermittent issues. I know, I've been battling a similar issue with Chorus now for 9 months. I had the 30th Chorus Tech show up on friday evening. The issue still persists.

Unfortunately your testing and Orcons testing hasn't yet ruled anything specific out, the testing seems rather hodge-podge, so it's time to start working systematically through things. I wouldn't go switching yet, you'll lose your whole 'history' of what you've done so far, and have to essentially start again, because I think that it's less likely to be an Orcon issue and more likely to be either a physical isue or something at your end.

The Error Guy
18-12-2011, 03:14 PM
I would agree on chill there, if that corded phone always works id suspect interference or a problem with the wireless phone.

Myth
18-12-2011, 05:36 PM
Is it VoIP line or is it a physical landline?It is a physical line, and not VOIP. Our local exchange (~500m away) does not support the new Genius system


When your internet cuts off, what happens with your phone line?Unsure, will get SWMBO to try that


How many jackpoints around your home do you have?Four. Main one comes into house to one jackpoint. Then it splits off to 3 other jacks, one of which supports the router and phone


You said you've replaced the filters (Or at least one), why not get the line split so you have a dedicated wall jack just for your router?Not my house; I am renting. Previous tenant (who is also landlord) had a Webserver running quite happily with Telecom while he was here. He reckoned he had no problems until he shut off the phone connection and moved in with his partner. This occurred 3 months before we moved in so he could renovate. During this 3 month period, the exchange was updated.

The Orcon/Chorus tech has already tested our internal phone line. Hence he disconnected the house alarm as it was sucking some line strength away from the phones. The landlord said while he was living here, he asked Telecom if he needed a splitter for the alarm. They said no.

Chilling_Silence
18-12-2011, 07:17 PM
Sounds like you need to escalate things appropriately with Orcon so they get the right Chorus techs involved and checking for the right thing. Do some more testing with the disconnections and your phone line, as well as cordless vs corded (You didn't mention anything about this in your reply?).

Myth
18-12-2011, 08:21 PM
Do some more testing with the disconnections and your phone line, as well as cordless vs corded (You didn't mention anything about this in your reply?).I think I missed something. Clarify please

feersumendjinn
19-12-2011, 12:38 AM
Perhaps this is the fault (I realise this info is for British Telecom systems, but I think NZ follows a similar system).
http://www.britishtelephones.com/ren.htm
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91096
Read the Telepermit labels on the bottom of all your devices, add up the REN (may be written as RN), if it comes to more than 4, that could be the problem :2cents:.

A relative had the same symptoms as you, either couldn't dial out (dial tone continued thru dial), or cut out, or didn't ring. Took 1 phone (and extension cable) away, it's been fine since (was 3 phones plus a ADSL modem).

Myth
19-12-2011, 05:30 AM
We currently only have the cordless phone connected - (REN value of 1). and the Linksys 200G router - cannot find REN value - no REN/RN but does say CN 2 - whatever that is)
Corded phone is currently back with owner.

Could the router be doing this?

Chilling_Silence
19-12-2011, 07:08 AM
Unsure about the router personally but two people I know didn't have terribly good results with that model.

If the corded phone always works, then doesn't that indicate something wrong with the cordless? I know you don't want to have to use a corded, but based on what you said that doesn't indicate an issue with anything other than your own equipment. Do some testing to rule it out. Leave the cordless unplugged totally for 24-48 hours, so you just have the corded phone, and see if these disconnections continue.

Also when the internet goes offline, pick up the phone and dial 0800 000 000 and see if it all goes through (IF you have dialtone that is). Its just a Telecom automated service so listen and see if you hear the voice break up or any crackling on the line, then you can just hang up.

pctek
19-12-2011, 07:14 AM
You on Orcons own equipment or is it Telecoms equipment through Orcon?

paulw
19-12-2011, 08:33 AM
Reading the above is your line feed by LLU or a resale of a Telecom landline??

mikebartnz
19-12-2011, 11:25 AM
Also when the internet goes offline, pick up the phone and dial 0800 000 000 and see if it all goes through (IF you have dialtone that is). Its just a Telecom automated service so listen and see if you hear the voice break up or any crackling on the line, then you can just hang up.
The old 137 is a handy number to make sure everything is working after doing some wiring etc. but the number you gave is better in this instance.

dugimodo
19-12-2011, 11:54 AM
A few Ideas:

Here's a wild stab in the dark, in the past there were occasionally problems with ringing and dialtone due to polarity, most modern devices don't care but in some cases it pays to check the wiring is straight with no reversals between jackpoints, and if that doesn't work swap the polarity and see if it helps. In some cases the problem can be caused by two things plugged in that have a reversal between them (router and phone for example) Testing a line may not show this up. In a 2 wire jackpoint you should have one wire on each side, usually red and white. The wiring should use the same colours on the same side in every jackpoint, you could try reversing just the one your cordless is connected to and see if it makes a difference.

To check if the router causes it is simple, unplug it and make some calls.

The REN thing usually affects phones not ringing more than not dialling out and is about excess capacitance on the line. Cordless phones tend to have low REN numbers as they generate their own ringing in the phone as opposed to using what is sent down the line. Can't break dialtone is a common enough fault to have it's own standard code, perhaps it's a problem with the exchange detecting the tones being sent by the phone correctly.

Are the cordless phones you have tried telepermitted and were they different models / brands from each other? A corded phone may possibly generate a higher level tone, and some cordless phones that store the number as you dial and send it all at once may send very fast short duration tones which could be harder to detect than a corded phone.

Myth
19-12-2011, 04:25 PM
Ok:

there are 2 different models of cordless phone affected. A brand new Panasonic, and the older Uniden. The newer Panasonic has more issues than the older Uniden. Both Telepermitted - one bought from HN, the other from DSE

I think this is Orcons own equipment; any way to know for sure?

Cordless phone and router are attached to the same jackpoint

Chilling_Silence
19-12-2011, 06:19 PM
So if you plug the corded phone in, in-place of the cordless, and just use it for 24 hours, what happens??

Safari
19-12-2011, 06:55 PM
If you have the cordless phone base station connected to the same filter as the router you might be best to move the base station to another jack point in the house away from the router. Take the filter out all together and connect the router direct into the jack point.
It is not unusual for cordless phones close to routers to cause DSL problems.

mikebartnz
19-12-2011, 09:38 PM
If you have the cordless phone base station connected to the same filter as the router you might be best to move the base station to another jack point in the house away from the router. Take the filter out all together and connect the router direct into the jack point.
It is not unusual for cordless phones close to routers to cause DSL problems.
+1

Myth
20-12-2011, 05:59 AM
If you have the cordless phone base station connected to the same filter as the router you might be best to move the base station to another jack point in the house away from the router. Take the filter out all together and connect the router direct into the jack point.
It is not unusual for cordless phones close to routers to cause DSL problems.I was always under the impression that the router had to be filtered as well.
Have plugged router into jack direct, and put phone base on another jack.

@ Chill: we have to get corded phone back again. Likely to happen after Xmas - or we will have to buy one. Again; this is likely after xmas

Safari
20-12-2011, 07:48 AM
I was always under the impression that the router had to be filtered as well.
Have plugged router into jack direct, and put phone base on another jack.

@ Chill: we have to get corded phone back again. Likely to happen after Xmas - or we will have to buy one. Again; this is likely after xmas

You have the phone base connected through a filter do you.
The router does not have to be filtered, the reason for using a filter with the router is just to allow a phone to be connected at the same jackpoint.

dugimodo
20-12-2011, 09:40 AM
You have the phone base connected through a filter do you.
The router does not have to be filtered, the reason for using a filter with the router is just to allow a phone to be connected at the same jackpoint.

yeah +1, filter just prevents the router from noising up the phone so it's for the phone's benefit not the routers. If you don't plug a phone in the same jack it's a good Idea not to use one. 1 less thing to fail.

You can actually use a phone without one as well, but you will hear the router and it's pretty noisy.

decibel
20-12-2011, 09:12 PM
yeah +1, filter just prevents the router from noising up the phone so it's for the phone's benefit not the routers. If you don't plug a phone in the same jack it's a good Idea not to use one. 1 less thing to fail.

You can actually use a phone without one as well, but you will hear the router and it's pretty noisy.

The filter also prevents the phone interfering with the router. Most phones in NZ do not have a high terminating impedance in the ADSL frequency band (because the manufacturer didn't know/care about your use of it with ADSL) The filter (low-pass) prevents the level of the ADSL signal being pulled down by the phone or anything else intended for voice only.

Myth
21-12-2011, 06:00 AM
Ok, de-filtering the router and putting the filtered phone on another jack hasn't worked.

Will try dugimodo's polarity trick this week sometime and see if that helps

May be also retiring the modem/router soon. My switch has given up the ghost (well its in its last breaths stage) so I may drop the modem/router down a level and buy a new one; in case thats it.

Already checked the forums and see this comes recommended: NetComm NB6Plus4Wn ADSL2+ Modem/Router, Basic firewall, Ethernet, 4xRJ-45 ports, 802.11b/g/n Wireless. Any further comments on modem/router choice?

Chilling_Silence
21-12-2011, 08:15 AM
If you want something that is simple, solid, easy to setup, and all-in-one, then you can't beat it!

If you want to tinker, get a Linksys AM300 or Draytek DV120 for your modem and pump that into a WRT54GL running Tomato or Gargoyle.

paulw
21-12-2011, 08:42 AM
Myth, You never answered my question. Is this Orcon LLU or Telecom resale?? If LLU then good luck to you as I had the same issues with Orcon and gave up after about 9 months of pontless trying to fix it at my end and went back to a Telecom resold landline. It turns out that the ATAs that Orcon use at the local exchange are not ground referenced and will float causing the problems that you are having with cutoffs strange tones and the like during a conversation..

decibel
21-12-2011, 12:02 PM
Phone line polarity is only important if you have more than one of the old 3-wire master jacks.

Check the bottom right corner of the jack front-plate; it should have a "M", "S" or "2" embossed there (unless you have some Kamakusa brand units)

Myth
21-12-2011, 03:21 PM
Sorry Paul, I thought I had
I am sure it is Orcon equipment which iirc means it is Orcon LLU?

Someone may need to correct me on this

And the jack has a "2" on it which I am pretty sure means 2-wire. 3-wire had the "M" & "S" for Master/Slave correct?

decibel
21-12-2011, 03:38 PM
And the jack has a "2" on it which I am pretty sure means 2-wire. 3-wire had the "M" & "S" for Master/Slave correct?

Yes, that's correct - but are all jacks like that ?

Myth
21-12-2011, 05:35 PM
Yes, that's correct - but are all jacks like that ?yes, all have a "2" on them

decibel
21-12-2011, 10:27 PM
Have plugged router into jack direct, and put phone base on another jack.

I am a little confused here - normally the router cord has a RJ12 plug on the end which will plug into the "non-filtered" side of a filter, but not into the phone jack (BT jack)

Myth
22-12-2011, 05:59 AM
I am a little confused here - normally the router cord has a RJ12 plug on the end which will plug into the "non-filtered" side of a filter, but not into the phone jack (BT jack)When you're a hoarder regards I.T. like me, you have cords that will do all sorts. I swapped the router/modem cord with an old phone cable two days ago so I could plug it directly into the jack

Myth
23-12-2011, 01:18 PM
New router arrived today. Must say; I am highly impressed by Ascent's speed with this.
Ordered Monday night, paid for via online banking

Chilling_Silence
23-12-2011, 04:46 PM
NB6Plus4Wn?

Myth
23-12-2011, 06:55 PM
NB6Plus4Wn?Yes

Chilling_Silence
24-12-2011, 10:31 PM
Good choice :D

...and how have things been since you went live with it?

Myth
24-12-2011, 10:50 PM
Well, setup was easy enough.
I notice there is no easy way to log on or off between users

Haven't really got to the phone thing today

May do some trials tomorrow - dependent on how bloated I feel :D

Chilling_Silence
28-12-2011, 08:34 AM
So, how's this lookin?

Jester
28-12-2011, 10:54 PM
I had my Orcon problems resolved by the Orcon team at Geekzone. Could be worth a crack if still not working as it should.

Orcon Forum (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=82) link

Myth
29-12-2011, 11:31 PM
I had my Orcon problems resolved by the Orcon team at Geekzone. Could be worth a crack if still not working as it should.

Orcon Forum (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=82) linkThank you for this.

I will be throwing a post their ways tomorrow - outlining what I have done to-date (including what the bosslady has done as well in the last few days)

Chilling_Silence
30-12-2011, 06:54 AM
So what've you tried since the 24th then?

Myth
30-12-2011, 07:03 AM
The missus rung them again just prior to the 24th. She has told them the history (again) and told them the issue is still not fixed. She explained that we are not exactly nub users, explained what the issue was and what we had to put up with at their end. The guy on the other end tried to read through his manual again, but she told him that we had already done this etc etc

So - he took our router name and model, phone name and model, and some other details; and advised us they would be in touch.
We will be giving the new cordless phone to some friends to trial for a week, on another line to make sure its not that. We may also let them play with the old cordless phone as well

Have also changed the router to the Netcomm... problem persists

Will be trialling another users suggestion this weekend about swapping the wires over in the jack that the phone is on

Orcon have until the 14th Jan to sort this (or at least reply) - from the 7th on, I will be looking for alternatives

paulw
30-12-2011, 08:10 AM
Have you got a Sky STB and if you have is it plugged in??

Myth
30-12-2011, 08:31 AM
No Sky, only Freeview here

Also - what is STB?

Chilling_Silence
30-12-2011, 08:35 AM
OK but have you tried what I initially suggested:
Ditch the cordless *completely* (Rip it outta the phone and power sockets) and JUST use the corded phone for 48 hours.

Snorkbox
30-12-2011, 08:40 AM
STB = Set top box.

pctek
30-12-2011, 09:10 AM
You have a lot more patience than me.
By now I would have ditched Orcon.

Chilling_Silence
30-12-2011, 09:22 AM
No guarantees it's Orcon though, or that another ISP would resolve it faster when there's more that can be tested with the CPE.

dugimodo
30-12-2011, 10:51 AM
Did you ever try using the cordless phones with the router disconnected? I thought it might help to prove if the problem was DSL related or not.
There is a filter at the exchange end also but they rarely cause issues as they are much better quality than the home ones (I don't like calling filters splitters but the ISP's do as well).

Sounds to me like you pretty much have to keep at them to fix it or switch providers. Sometimes the problems can be incredibly hard to find, and with the ISP passing faults on to chorus it can get messy.

Bottom line from my point of view, if DSL works fine, Corded phone works fine, Line test shows no fault, multiple different devices have a problem = exchange fault or the line test is missing something.

It could still be related to house wiring though, if you feel confident and have the proper tools a good way to eliminate this is to disconnect everything from the ETP (telecom box on the outside of the house) and run a new temporary jackpoint from a short length of homelan or cat5 cable. Then you can test the phone and router to see if it's any better with the house wiring eliminated. Not somethig everyone can do however, you need the grease filled scotchlock connectors to join the wires in the ETP and can't afford to make any dodgy connections. Really the sort of thing a faultman should try.

Myth
30-12-2011, 11:16 AM
OK but have you tried what I initially suggested:
Ditch the cordless *completely* (Rip it outta the phone and power sockets) and JUST use the corded phone for 48 hours.Was just speaking with SWMBO - she has done this already and had the same issues. Not as often; but they were still there.

Poppa John
30-12-2011, 08:51 PM
Myth.
Many months ago I was having trouble with Orcon with a free website. In the end I went to the top & it was sorted in two days.
Scott Bartlett CEO. He has a direct email line but I cannot remember what it was.

%firstnamelastname%@orcon.net.nz or somesuch. Give it a go! PJ

PS Unfortunately you now have the New Years break in the way. PJ

Chilling_Silence
30-12-2011, 11:48 PM
That's cool, but personally I'd liken that to going to Bill Gates every time you have a problem with Windows not booting. I'd recommend following the procedures that Orcon has in-place to deal with this kind of thing. Believe me, I know how frustrating it can be, I've had an ongoing disconnection issue for 9 months now, and Slingshot are about to give me a second free DSL line just to see if that helps isolate what the fault is. Progress has also slowed down for me over Christmas because my ISP isn't "fully there" and the Chorus staff who are working on my issue are also on holiday. It's just a fact of life.

Now, you mentioned initially that you have 4 jackpoints in your house. One main one which splits off to 3 others, one of which your router hangs off. Can you post your DSL Line Stats (Sync speed / SNR / Attenuation etc) from where it currently is, and then again when it's plugged in at the *primary* jackpoint?

Looking back at what you've said about the tone etc, I'm still thinking it's a line fault or similar, but you *have* to have ruled out everything of your own first, or you WILL get stung big-time when a Chorus tech rocks on up and wants ~$175+ whatever it is for the fee if it's found to be an issue of your own.
Once you've got your router hooked up to the primary jackpoint, tell them it's been suggested that apply a monitor to your line to check for any issues over the next 48 hours. The guys themselves should be able to do this at Orcon.

Lastly, if after 48 hours that doesn't get you anywhere, it's probably worth you contacting Telecom Line Faults on 120. Describe to them the issue that you're having when you pick up the phone and how you get the continuous "ready" tone. Stress that it is an intermittent fault. Again, if they come out and find something is wrong with your own wiring or our router or phone that is interfering, you'll be stung for the full callout cost, so it pays to be sure.
One more thing: When you get that issue trying to call out, what happens if you pick up your Cellphone and call yourself on your home line? Does it ring or give a disconnected tone? Or perhaps an engaged tone? Tell Telecom Line Faults that information as well (We may have asked this previously in the thread, don't remember).

Let us know how you go. Hang in there, I know it can be frustrating, speaking from experience here ;) But if you work away at it methodically I'm sure it'll be fixed before long :)

Myth
31-12-2011, 12:17 AM
Sorry... some confusion there. We have 3 jackpoints total... main one into the house which splits off to 2 others

May get to the rest of this post tomorrow or Sunday - dependent on alcohol levels :D

paulw
31-12-2011, 09:06 AM
Cill.
"Lastly, if after 48 hours that doesn't get you anywhere, it's probably worth you contacting Telecom Line Faults on 120."

If it's an LLU line then they will have no record of it in their database and will tell the OP to call Orcon to sort it..

Chilling_Silence
31-12-2011, 11:34 AM
True, but Orcon will *still* go back to Telecom / Chorus (Whoever) coz Orcon don't own the actual physical line.

paulw
31-12-2011, 01:31 PM
True, but Orcon will *still* go back to Telecom / Chorus (Whoever) coz Orcon don't own the actual physical line.

Yes Orcon can but the OP can't.. I went thru 9 months of this sort of stuff on an Orcon LLU line. Never again..

Myth
31-12-2011, 03:57 PM
Ok... before I get my alcomohol glasses on... the DSL Line stats:

http://pastebin.com/u5Qr6Xy4 << this is the main jack - where the line comes into the house

http://pastebin.com/LWKkWT9g << this is the jack that the router normally uses

Is that what you were seeking?

Chilling_Silence
01-01-2012, 01:04 PM
Yeah looks pretty similar between the two of them.

Chilling_Silence
04-01-2012, 08:51 AM
So how have you been going with my suggestions over the last few days? :)

Myth
04-01-2012, 05:41 PM
So how have you been going with my suggestions over the last few days? :)Currently I have dropped a post in another forum as per Jesters suggestion. Have received a reply from Orcon staff member today... will see where this goes.

Sorry, completely forgot about it :x

I know for a fact that the line was monitored when I was using the Linksys... but I will get them to monitor it again :)

Myth
06-01-2012, 06:02 PM
Update to this:
We had another technician come round today; thanks to some fast tracking of an Orcon staff member in another forum.
He discovered that we have a faulty filter on the phone line (now replaced and retested)... but there is also a problem with the phone on the ISP's side of the exchange - possibly due to a screw up when the line was originally activated. A reset has been requested so hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel :)

Chilling_Silence
06-01-2012, 11:17 PM
Good to hear! :)