PDA

View Full Version : An Open Letter To Jen:



SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 01:11 PM
Jen:

Since I have had not a few emails and hits on my GTalk by others from Upsidedown Land and even a couple from Germany and one I think from China, I feel a general clearing of the air is in order.

I find your post and finding offense in my post as rather short-sighted, if not a downright ludicrous insult by and from you.

If, on the other hand you are just rallying around a smitten cohort, (Zara-something or other) then you are wrong on another glaring issue: firstly, I did NOT say what you said I said and secondly, you are on the wrong side of the matter, whatever your motives might be.

Now I know you are or at least were involved in some sort of publishing, as I've seen your wordsmithing in the past, and it is impressive.

However, when one chooses to rail against someone whom you have maligned and misquoted, there has to be an upbraiding of that mistaken person: you.

You posted the following, and it is a matter of public record what you said as it shall live on indefinitely on the Ethernet - somewhere. ::


Guys, deep breath ... it is not the end of the world.

Joe posted that all Native American Indians were drugged out, drunk thieves, full stop. That is a rather insulting/racist generalisation and Zara pulled him up on it. Joe got into a snit and stormed out of the room (figuratively speaking). He was not run off the forum. His choice not to post since then and a bit of an over-reaction IMHO. I thought he would have moved on from that by now.

Joe is still welcome to post and participate here if he wants too.

Emphasis, mine.

Can you show me where your criteria meets with your so-stated (not inferred, but printed) 'ALL' in the whole quote of MY post in the following?


Default Re: It's Burning Near Anza
The Indians receive a stipend - heck, it's a full-blown tax-free income from the time they are born, gets escalated to more when they turn eighteen and it's all from the US taxpayers. (This is universally true of ALL US Indians)

They get this income for life and usually they just drink it away or buy drugs - peyote and marijuana is their choice although cocaine is hitting heavy now too. (This is a matter of public record, tribal shame and is the number one reason for the troubles on their reservations and when they interact with people outside of their reservations. This is a universal truth, not slanderous)

Where my dad lived in Nevada, the so-called 'Indians' with a tribe of just 30 members or so have a 10,000 acre place that's their own - they take all the game meat they want including any strays that wander over from pastures owned by ranches - and then they drive to town, for cases of beer and hard liquor, and then rob the liquor store or steal a new car off a sales lot and drive with impunity to their sovereign nation where the cops can't go and the tribal council sees: NOTHING --- nor will even ask if someone has a new car and shouldn't. (Police and court records support this fact)

They will drive it until it runs outta gas and abandone (my sic) it - which cannot be rescued by the legal owner, even though they can SEE their car from the road. (Police and court records support this fact)


The feds build them a new fire station every year, stock it with rescue gear, hoses, pumps, huge fire trucks and an air conditioned garage for them to park the vehicles in. ( This can be seen from the roads outside of the reservation - you can even see it for yourself if you were to ever be in the area)

On each yearly 'Emergency Readiness' inspection by the government - the fire trucks are all up on jacks - wheels, engines, transmissions are missing, lights and all the brass and chrome is on their personal cars and the station has been burned out by fire. (This is a matter of public and Federal record, and sadly is not limited to the 30-member tribe in Nevada alone. This is a universal fact)

The next time they arrive, the feds build a new one all over again and stock it fully too. Over and over. (This TOO is a matter of public and Federal record, and sadly is not limited to the 30-member tribe in Nevada alone. This is a universal fact)


The Indians - if they had a gripe - really cannot complain since they are fed, housed, medically taken care of for life and they are sales tax-exempt when they actually buy something outside of their reservations (instead of just stealing things).

Yup - pity them all you want - they are rich and they don't care.

The word 'ALL' as used by you in exacerbating what is not a slight by me upon the American Indians; it is in-and-of-itself a justification for you to be railed for your own gross misstatement and inference; it is one which is entirely your own fabrication; it also and alone is broadly encompassing 'every' Indian, and nowhere is that said by my post.

Out of context you can say it is all-encompassing or all or en toto, but the truth be known, this sole reference was to the thirty person band that calls itself a sovereign nation.

You knew this going in, as your statement is so obviously false that you could only have prevaricated and foisted this falsehood upon me.

Those other comments of 'Universal Truths', again, are sadly true; are a US national blight and are sadly a true tribal condition-of-fact as stipulated to and by me, not to mention the newspapers the local police, the FBI and The Bureau Of Indian Affairs records.

If you like and I feel up to it (and at the moment I don't) I will research the morgue at the Minden/Gardnerville Nevada newspapers to post police crime reports of the activity to which I referred.

However, in conclusion - nowhere did I invoke the word "ALL' as indicative of the facts that I posted.

YOU are the one who wrote and misquoted me as having said it.

I fully expect that this post will not be locked, as the harm is to me and me alone and I choose to not lock it for purposes which are my own.

I also expect a full retraction by you and your leader-in-chief and/or boss, as she is the primary instigator of this witch hunt.

I shall - as if you don't know it already - forward this tome to the head or heads of your site managers, any persons to whom I can gain access and perhaps the publishers of the magazine that somehow allows this blind-sided form of journalistic pap-propaganda and lies to exist.

I have been harmed, and so come I.

Shame on you all.

DeSade
09-08-2011, 01:21 PM
haha
Welcome back Joe, Never change mate :)

GameJunkie
09-08-2011, 01:23 PM
good to hear you're back SJ:thumbs:

and a well put response

Bozo
09-08-2011, 01:26 PM
Well written response.

Though for us future posters, let us not bring a flame war here. Keep it civil etc, pitchforks and flaming torches only... and maybe a set of gallows.

Billy T
09-08-2011, 01:36 PM
I have stayed out of this debate because I had nothing to say that had not already been said by one party or the other, but I am a stickler for linguistic accuracy and I do have something to say now.

Joe:

You are absolutely correct in your assessment of the nature of your comments.

Insinuations and meanings have been mistakenly drawn that were simply not present in your words.

I think it is kiss and make-up time, preferably by PM, because nothing good will come by further raking over these coals in public.

Billy

Gobe1
09-08-2011, 01:42 PM
Nice to hear from you Joe, well said both you and Billy. Good luck :)

SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 01:49 PM
I have stayed out of this debate because I had nothing to say that had not already been said by one party or the other, but I am a stickler for linguistic accuracy and I do have something to say now.

Joe:

You are absolutely correct in your assessment of the nature of your comments.

Insinuations and meanings have been mistakenly drawn that were simply not present in your words.

I think it is kiss and make-up time, preferably by PM, because nothing good will come by further raking over these coals in public.

Billy

I would tend to agree - but sweeping this out into an open forum is the most correct way of making this all better.

It was originally posted as a lie and a foisting of a fist into my face in an open and international world-wide forum and this is where the chips should fall.

It would be a mistake or possibly an accident if it only came from Zara - but another Mod rallied to her wounded partner and paycheck-writer as it appears, and that's just a duality in malfeasance and a diabolical ploy to effect a capitulation by me and make themselves seem more omnipotent than they have a right to be.

As an internationally recognized forum, I have been dealt a smarting blow in the eyes of the world.

I demand recognition that I am NOT the instigator of such a personal and egregious insult to the whole US Indian Nation.

Nay, it is Jen and Zarta and they owe it to the US Indians to make a full and complete apology to them, to me and to any other person who has been so slighted.

Ulsterman
09-08-2011, 01:54 PM
Very well said, Joe.

It's interesting, is it not, that although Joe's post has been up for a while now there has been no reaction from Jen or the big boss Baxter. If, as Billy says, it is time to kiss and make up, then there seems to be little inclination from the mods to do that.

Personally, I think that it really is a storm in a teacup and it's time to apologise.

Chilling_Silence
09-08-2011, 02:02 PM
This can't end yet, I've still got 3/4 of my popcorn left!!!!

Cato
09-08-2011, 02:04 PM
Well said, SJ and Billy T.

Bozo
09-08-2011, 02:06 PM
This can't end yet, I've still got 3/4 of my popcorn left!!!!

Damn you! I knew I should've ordered the extra-large instead of the small.

Picking through the hard little un-popped pieces now... :crying

pcuser42
09-08-2011, 02:11 PM
This can't end yet, I've still got 3/4 of my popcorn left!!!!

:lol:


I have stayed out of this debate because I had nothing to say that had not already been said by one party or the other, but I am a stickler for linguistic accuracy and I do have something to say now.

I stayed out of this debate as well, though I think the fact that I had no idea what was going on had something to do with that :p

SolMiester
09-08-2011, 02:15 PM
Jen:

Since I have had not a few emails and hits on my GTalk by others from Upsidedown Land and even a couple from Germany and one I think from China, I feel a general clearing of the air is in order.

I find your post and finding offense in my post as rather short-sighted, if not a downright ludicrous insult by and from you.

If, on the other hand you are just rallying around a smitten cohort, (Zara-something or other) then you are wrong on another glaring issue: firstly, I did NOT say what you said I said and secondly, you are on the wrong side of the matter, whatever your motives might be.

Now I know you are or at least were involved in some sort of publishing, as I've seen your wordsmithing in the past, and it is impressive.

However, when one chooses to rail against someone whom you have maligned and misquoted, there has to be an upbraiding of that mistaken person: you.

You posted the following, and it is a matter of public record what you said as it shall live on indefinitely on the Ethernet - somewhere. ::



Emphasis, mine.

Can you show me where your criteria meets with your so-stated (not inferred, but printed) 'ALL' in the whole quote of MY post in the following?



The word 'ALL' as used by you in exacerbating what is not a slight by me upon the American Indians; it is in-and-of-itself a justification for you to be railed for your own gross misstatement and inference; it is one which is entirely your own fabrication; it also and alone is broadly encompassing 'every' Indian, and nowhere is that said by my post.

Out of context you can say it is all-encompassing or all or en toto, but the truth be known, this sole reference was to the thirty person band that calls itself a sovereign nation.

You knew this going in, as your statement is so obviously false that you could only have prevaricated and foisted this falsehood upon me.

Those other comments of 'Universal Truths', again, are sadly true; are a US national blight and are sadly a true tribal condition-of-fact as stipulated to and by me, not to mention the newspapers the local police, the FBI and The Bureau Of Indian Affairs records.

If you like and I feel up to it (and at the moment I don't) I will research the morgue at the Minden/Gardnerville Nevada newspapers to post police crime reports of the activity to which I referred.

However, in conclusion - nowhere did I invoke the word "ALL' as indicative of the facts that I posted.

YOU are the one who wrote and misquoted me as having said it.

I fully expect that this post will not be locked, as the harm is to me and me alone and I choose to not lock it for purposes which are my own.

I also expect a full retraction by you and your leader-in-chief and/or boss, as she is the primary instigator of this witch hunt.

I shall - as if you don't know it already - forward this tome to the head or heads of your site managers, any persons to whom I can gain access and perhaps the publishers of the magazine that somehow allows this blind-sided form of journalistic pap-propaganda and lies to exist.

I have been harmed, and so come I.

Shame on you all.

You have my support Joe!

SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 02:17 PM
Thank-you all.

BTW: is everybody awake in Upsidedown Land at the moment? I wouldn't want someone getting pulled out of bed to make an apology, ya know!

SP8's
09-08-2011, 02:17 PM
Plenty of Speights in the fridge (minimum 3 week supply), peanuts (roasted 'n' salted) on hand ... waiting patiently for a response to SJ's open letter from the powers that be ... :D

SolMiester
09-08-2011, 02:19 PM
Thank-you all.

BTW: is everybody awake in Upsidedown Land at the moment? I wouldn't want someone getting pulled out of bed to make an apology, ya know!

1.18pm here Joe, this is getting exciting mate....and you are 100% right to do it in the open as you were trashed.....in the open.....
Zara, time to squirm!.........

radium
09-08-2011, 02:35 PM
SJ = 1
Admins = 0

Welcome back SJ!

Chilling_Silence
09-08-2011, 02:38 PM
Admins = 0

Hey I'm an Admin, but I'm impartial ...

Bozo
09-08-2011, 02:39 PM
But let us not forget the awesome job that Jen has done for the forums over the years too.

As I have not seen any of Zara's postings before I will not comment on these.

While a mistake has occurred, let us not forget the good times too.

edit: I guess I'm not a fan of seeing either party hurt more than needed, an apology for mistakes made and all can be forgotten.
If I was a (hopefully loved) mod for a site for many years, then due to one mistake seeing the entire forum turning against me.. it would be dis-heartening to say the least

double edit: I'm not taking sides, lets just get this cleared asap

SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 02:40 PM
Anybody got a stop watch to time the next round?

Perhaps a calendar would be better as I see ZERO retractions or apologies from the powers that be so far. Perhaps they are talking to their lawyers right about now.

SolMiester
09-08-2011, 02:53 PM
Never heard of an Admin flounce before?!...LOL. Got to be uncomfortable at Fairfax!

Erayd
09-08-2011, 02:55 PM
In Jen's defense, she's usually does a fantastic job - can't we allow her the odd slip-up? She also has a day job, writing her off just because she doesn't keep an eagle eye on the forum all day doesn't feel right.

I also think that showing solidarity with the other mods is a trait to be commended - sure, we may not all agree with Zara's approach (and how do we even know that Jen does), but loyalty is valuable, and makes for a better bunch of mods in my opinion.

DeSade
09-08-2011, 02:59 PM
I agree with the sentiments here that the real problem is Zara. Jen was just unlucky enough to be caught up in the middle of this.

SP8's
09-08-2011, 03:06 PM
+1

SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 03:07 PM
In Jen's defense, she's usually does a fantastic job - can't we allow her the odd slip-up? She also has a day job, writing her off just because she doesn't keep an eagle eye on the forum all day doesn't feel right.

I also think that showing solidarity with the other mods is a trait to be commended - sure, we may not all agree with Zara's approach (and how do we even know that Jen does), but loyalty is valuable, and makes for a better bunch of mods in my opinion.

I'm not suggesting a mutiny in the ranks. Jen for some ungodly reason and totally out of character chose to side with a loser in this fight - a fight in which she didn't have a dog at all. So there's that too.

Personally I like Jen a lot and she's been a supporter and staunch advocate of things correct as far back as I can remember. But this was totally 1) out of character for her and her peri-linguistic logic 2) something into which she was goaded by a superior 3) just felt I needed a dressing-down for general practices.

Any one of them is understandable if she's going to 'fess up to it and set the matter straight. I cannot ever recall her getting into something as large and out of the ordinary as this before - so I sense something other than Vegemite's here.



I agree with the sentiments here that the real problem is Zara. Jen was just unlucky enough to be caught up in the middle of this.

This is the crux of the matter.

Any person has a right to swing their fist as much and wherever they want - but that right ends at the tip of my nose.

Zippity
09-08-2011, 03:15 PM
I hope that all this has nothing to do with that innocent Irish joke that I posted a few days back :) :)

Man, some folks have thin backsides.

Political Correctness is a Right Royal Pain in the Ar$e :)

Zara Baxter
09-08-2011, 03:20 PM
It's always fun to read about yourself on the forums. I hope some of you get the chance to meet me at some stage.

I'm afraid I don't have time to be here every day, much as I'd like to.

My position is, and always has been, that negative stereotypes about any minority group are unwelcome here, where our policy is to be excellent to each other. I believe, as I said in the initial thread, that you were skirting what was acceptable. I didn't delete your thread, I just gave a mild pointer.

So I can't help but feel you're slightly over-reacting here.

I'm sure Jen can speak for herself, but she has my full support in her unpaid role. Your dismissing her volunteer effort seems to me incredibly rude.

Chilling_Silence
09-08-2011, 03:28 PM
I'm afraid I don't have time to be here every day, much as I'd like to.

With all due respect then, why not leave the heavy-handed moderation to those who are here every day (Even though it's unpaid and I have my own full-time job to attend to, as well as starting a family. Jen too.), and have built a bit more of a rapport with the members? Surely you can understand why the regulars feel you're riding in on a "white horse" so to speak, and essentially ripping the familiar ground out from under them, with respect to wanting to redo the forum Rules, amongst other things.

That, and is a little humility and repentance from both sides too much to ask?

QW.
09-08-2011, 03:32 PM
With all due respect then, why not leave the heavy-handed moderation to those who are here every day (Even though it's unpaid and I have my own full-time job to attend to, as well as starting a family. Jen too.), and have built a bit more of a rapport with the members? Surely you can understand why the regulars feel you're riding in on a "white horse" so to speak, and essentially ripping the familiar ground out from under them, with respect to wanting to redo the forum Rules, amongst other things.

That, and is a little humility and repentance from both sides too much to ask?

Good post Chill.

SolMiester
09-08-2011, 03:34 PM
It's always fun to read about yourself on the forums. I hope some of you get the chance to meet me at some stage.

I'm afraid I don't have time to be here every day, much as I'd like to.

My position is, and always has been, that negative stereotypes about any minority group are unwelcome here, where our policy is to be excellent to each other. I believe, as I said in the initial thread, that you were skirting what was acceptable. I didn't delete your thread, I just gave a mild pointer.

So I can't help but feel you're slightly over-reacting here.

I'm sure Jen can speak for herself, but she has my full support in her unpaid role. Your dismissing her volunteer effort seems to me incredibly rude.

This is your problem Zara!...You dont know jack sh*t about native Americans and to then say SJ is derogatory about them is ludicrous! SJ has offered to show you the facts!, yet you still turn away as if this is Jens problem, not yours!...Not just ignorant, but rude!

wainuitech
09-08-2011, 03:39 PM
This can't end yet, I've still got 3/4 of my popcorn left!!!! Turn your web cam off Chill (http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/6/9/9/eatingpopcorn.gif) :lol:

SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 03:42 PM
Is this an old problem?

[QUOTE=Zara Baxter}I hope some of you get the chance to meet me at some stage.

Not on my visitation activities list for the moment.




No comment other than you can sure stir things when you ARE here!

[QUOTE=Zara Baxter}My position is, and always has been, that negative stereotypes about any minority group are unwelcome here, where our policy is to be excellent to each other. I believe, as I said in the initial thread, that you were skirting what was acceptable. I didn't delete your thread, I just gave a mild pointer.

I do not perceive this as your full apology.




No? Over-reacting is YOUR bailiwick, not mine. I'm the injured party here and don't forget it. You called me a racist and I resent that with all the force mustered in my being. For that, and your cavalier attitude now, I cannot foresee forgiving you when no hand of recompense is out from you.

[QUOTE=Zara Baxter}I'm sure Jen can speak for herself, but she has my full support in her unpaid role. Your dismissing her volunteer effort seems to me incredibly rude.

Rude is again, yours. Admit that you were wrong and maybe there's room for a dialog here. You cannot switch this to an outcall about Jen - you are the troublemaker here, so get that straight.

Until you recognize the scope and insensitivity of the words you posted in an international forum, I still smart and although I won't cry about it, the world is watching your politicizing this event to sweep it under the floor with a shoulder chuck and a kiss off. So it will not be.

I refuse to roll over with what I consider your feeble political hack attempt and co-dalliance with Jen with your commiserations, besmirching her and her work here and attempts to diffuse a situation in which you are totally culpable and the scoundrel.

I demand a full and total apology in the most forthright manner.

Tell the truth here - who told you to try this old bait-n-switch on me?

We have politicians here who would call you a piker and just laugh at your attempt to diffuse this problem with smoke screens and will-o-wisp rhetoric.

Zara Baxter
09-08-2011, 03:49 PM
I do not perceive this as your full apology.


That's because I'm not apologising for telling you you were close to the line.



No? Over-reacting is YOUR bailiwick, not mine. I'm the injured party here and don't forget it. You called me a racist and I resent that with all the force mustered in my being. For that, and your cavalier attitude now, I cannot foresee forgiving you when no hand of recompense is out from you.


Please provide evidence that I ever called you a racist, or retract immediately.



I refuse to roll over with what I consider your feeble political hack attempt and co-dalliance with Jen with your commiserations, besmirching her and her work here and attempts to diffuse a situation in which you are totally culpable and the scoundrel.


Are you serious? I give you a mild "hey, just be careful there" and I'm a culpable scoundrel. Hyperbole much?

B.M.
09-08-2011, 03:53 PM
My position is, and always has been, that negative stereotypes about any minority group are unwelcome here, where our policy is to be excellent to each other.

:confused: Well how should I go about pointing out that the Rioters and Looters in London and surrounds are predominately one colour? (Without offending anyone.) :confused:

SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 03:53 PM
Your sig tells all:


I remain unsubjugated, untamed, unbridled, uncontained, free, unconstrained, unfettered, uncontrolled, wild, untameable ... and in possession of a thesaurus.
What an attitude!

Chilling_Silence
09-08-2011, 03:57 PM
...glad I kept my popcorn! :D

SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 03:58 PM
Save me a beer, will ya Chill?

Zara Baxter
09-08-2011, 04:00 PM
:confused: Well how should I go about pointing out that the Rioters and Looters in London and surrounds are predominately one colour? (Without offending anyone.) :confused:

You know what they all are? They're all looters. That's the common bit. Some might even consider it the most salient point. Crazy talk.

inphinity
09-08-2011, 04:05 PM
Zara, as someone who has thus far been totally uninvolved in the situation, I'd like to step in here and just say a few brief words.

I fully agree that insulting and abusive comments should not be tolerated on a public forum. That said, I do believe the action (specifically, comments made) here was not based on what was written but based on an abstract interpretation of part of a post taken out of context.

I never saw the thread(s) in question originally, but since seeing so much discussion on the topic today I've gone and read them. And SurferJoe's post that was in question was, specifically, about a group of about 30 individuals, and the context of the post directs all the negativity and stereotyping onto this group, NOT the wider racial group that they belong to.

However, it seems that certain parts of the post (on, indeed, thread) were taken as standalone statements, wherein they COULD be interpreted as wider racial slurs - despite it being obvious that there was no intent for this - and thus your response.

Now, where I see the real problem has arisen, is that someone has taken said comments out of context, radically reinterpreted their intent.

I'm going to go ahead and use the same approach, albeit more intentionally targetted, with your post. Please note, the following example is for illustrative purposes only and is certainly not how I've interpreted your post.




any minority group are unwelcome here

*gasp* minority groups are not welcome on the PressF1 forums?! That's a petty approach, I don't agree with that idea.


You see, I've taken a small part of your overall post, which certainly when in full content of the post it is part of had no unwarranted negative impact, and suddenly it stands alone on it's own as a massive attack on minority groups' participation on this forum.

This, in my view, is exactly what was done to SurferJoe's post, albeit as mentioned in an unintentional manner and to a lesser extent than my rather extreme example.

Much of what was said in later posts in the thread that could be construed as negative stereotyping is, indeed, fact of the situation and, as such, cannot really be targetted as racial slurs.

Personally I can't believe such a minor thing has blown so far out of proportion, but that's what happens when things snowball.

Really it all seems to be to be a minor misunderstanding that has been made into a full-blown argument by continuing misinterpretations by both sides.

Now, everyone kiss and make up and we can get back to being a nice little community forum about helping each other, no?

SolMiester
09-08-2011, 04:09 PM
That's because I'm not apologising for telling you you were close to the line.



Please provide evidence that I ever called you a racist, or retract immediately.



Are you serious? I give you a mild "hey, just be careful there" and I'm a culpable scoundrel. Hyperbole much?


Hey folks,

If we could keep the race-based generalisations to a minimum, that'd be neat, thanks.

That looks to me like you are inferring the remarks are racist, which you assigned from everyone including SJ

Chilling_Silence
09-08-2011, 04:09 PM
Personally I can't believe such a minor thing has blown so far out of proportion, but that's what happens when things snowball.

Really it all seems to be to be a minor misunderstanding that has been made into a full-blown argument by continuing misinterpretations by both sides.

Now, everyone kiss and make up and we can get back to being a nice little community forum about helping each other, no?

Hear hear!

Why can't you both just take the moral high-ground. It's not difficult to step back from the keyboard, take a bit of a breather, come back and apologize for what's been said, how it has been said, and move on with life. Is it really worth all the drama? Is it really worth getting so upset over? Have your say, granted, but is that one comment really worth people leaving the forums over?

Lighten up a bit, live and let live a little yeah?

inphinity
09-08-2011, 04:12 PM
Oh, also, Joe - I personally can't see anywhere that you were called a racist, so I'd love if someone can point me to that, because I certainly don't believe you are and should not be called such.

Additionally, Zara, I believe part of people's reaction is that your participation on the forum is limited almost exclusively to admin-slapping when there's something you don't like which, in the context of the community around this forum, is probably not the ideal approach. As others have mentioned, there is quite a bit of rapport between many of the regular members on here, and to have a relative unknown step in and, as illustrated in a previous comparison, throw a tantrum and take the ball home, as it were, can be taken in the wrong light. While I'm sure most of us understand this is a forum hosted by PCWorld, and as it's editor and an admin you have the authority to do so, it really isn't in the spirit of the forum, imo.

SP8's
09-08-2011, 04:12 PM
Minority group .... those with names starting with Z .... :D

GameJunkie
09-08-2011, 04:18 PM
Anybody got a stop watch to time the next round?

Perhaps a calendar would be better as I see ZERO retractions or apologies from the powers that be so far. Perhaps they are talking to their lawyers right about now.

you have the right to bear(?) arms if necessary SJ!! :D

B.M.
09-08-2011, 04:18 PM
You know what they all are? They're all looters. That's the common bit. Some might even consider it the most salient point. Crazy talk.

Well you see it’s not crazy at all because they are in fact mostly rioters, they are in fact mostly looters, and they are in fact mostly the one colour.

It is the unfortunate truth, but by your yardstick the full facts are not acceptable.

Why is the truth not acceptable in its naked form?

SP8's
09-08-2011, 04:22 PM
Why is the truth not acceptable in its naked form?

Because if all the rioters / looters / one colour people are naked ... they'd be a minority group ... therefore ... unwelcome ... :D

B.M.
09-08-2011, 04:23 PM
Bring Back Tim, Bring Back Tim,............. :D

The original members will remember Tim.

Oh and bring back Bruce and Rob. :thumbs:

B.M.
09-08-2011, 04:25 PM
Because if all the rioters / looters / one colour people are naked ... they'd be a minority group ... therefore ... unwelcome ... :D

:lol: Good work. :thumbs:

Zara Baxter
09-08-2011, 04:29 PM
Additionally, Zara, I believe part of people's reaction is that your participation on the forum is limited almost exclusively to admin-slapping when there's something you don't like which, in the context of the community around this forum, is probably not the ideal approach. As others have mentioned, there is quite a bit of rapport between many of the regular members on here, and to have a relative unknown step in and, as illustrated in a previous comparison, throw a tantrum and take the ball home, as it were, can be taken in the wrong light. While I'm sure most of us understand this is a forum hosted by PCWorld, and as it's editor and an admin you have the authority to do so, it really isn't in the spirit of the forum, imo.

Hey Inphinity,

I'm sure that's part of it, and it's unfortunate, but I can't really change that perception.

All I can do is try to participate where I can (my preference), and step in when I'm asked to intervene (rather more common).

It's in no way about things I "don't like". It's about things for which, as publisher of this site, I have a responsibility for.

If people see that as me throwing a tantrum (interesting choice of words), that's really not my problem. My problem is having a legal obligation to keep the site free of hate speech.

SolMiester
09-08-2011, 04:35 PM
And still no apology......!

SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 04:37 PM
This person is a Super-spinmeister and there's no getting them to admit to anything.

SolMiester
09-08-2011, 04:38 PM
This person is a Super-spinmeister and there's no getting them to admit to anything.

Im sorry SJ, quite embarrassing really, but hey, you cant pick your countrymen eh?

wainuitech
09-08-2011, 04:43 PM
Hear hear!

Why can't you both just take the moral high-ground. It's not difficult to step back from the keyboard, take a bit of a breather, come back and apologize for what's been said, how it has been said, and move on with life. Is it really worth all the drama? Is it really worth getting so upset over? Have your say, granted, but is that one comment really worth people leaving the forums over?

Lighten up a bit, live and let live a little yeah?

Thats a great idea. :)

Around here, Jen and chill do a fantastic job,often un-thanked, and often quietly in the background.

Just a little bit of advice Zara (from a Business owner) -- The above mentioned Moderators are usually well respected, and very rarely is there the carry on like this has turned into. They have gotten that way by the way "conflicts or other problems" are handled.

As anyone who is in a power of position should know, you want respect from people you have to earn it. You cant just pop in out of the blue, start waving a big stick around, chopping people down and not expect a recoil of some description. I've gone back and looked at some of your comments in other threads, its plainly obvious everything has to be Your way if its even slightly Niggling at the rules.

After reading and watching these threads, yes maybe things have been blown up out of proportion.

All that said, a good, Knowledgeable person in charge, also knows when to call a truce (so to speak) and do what ever it takes to resolve the conflict for both parties to be happy and harmony to return.

Chill's advice hits the nail on the head.:2cents:

goodiesguy
09-08-2011, 04:44 PM
SurferJoe FTW!!!!!!!

with ya 100%




Around here, Jen and chill do a fantastic job,often un-thanked, and often quietly in the background.

Just a little bit of advice Zara (from a Business owner) -- The above mentioned Moderators are usually well respected. They have gotten that way by the way "conflicts or other problems" are handled.

+1

inphinity
09-08-2011, 04:44 PM
It's in no way about things I "don't like". It's about things for which, as publisher of this site, I have a responsibility for.

If people see that as me throwing a tantrum (interesting choice of words), that's really not my problem. My problem is having a legal obligation to keep the site free of hate speech.

I'm sure many of us realise that, when stepping back and looking at the situation openly. I do believe there is a big disassociation between the Chat forum and the PC World magazine, despite being part of the PC World forums, and as such many members' treat it as a private chat area, without taking into account the potential for the content of the forum to be associated with the magazine, particularly by those "outside" the core community.

And therein, I believe, lies a big part of the problem that has arisen.

Here's an example situation.

A group of friends are at a shopping mall, having a rather loud chat about some potentially-debatable topics. The mall security guard comes and asks them to stop the topic of conversation.

The guard is doing it because mall management are worried the conversation may potentially become offensive to other shoppers, and it's their mall after all, so they have the right to do so.

The group of friends become upset, because some guard has told them not to talk to each other about this topic - despite none of those in the conversation being upset or offended over what was being said. In fact, because they go there all the time, they feel it's "their place" - despite this not being strictly true - and become quite offended and aggravated that some "random" (despite said random having full authority to do so) coming up and "telling" them what they can talk about.

I see that as the situation we've got here, and both sides have a point, but there's a fairly simple middle ground to meet on.

I don't believe there was any intention for the post(s) to be taken as racial slurs, and I also don't believe there was any intention to label the poster(s) as racist. It was just a misunderstanding by both parties. Once we can all realise and acknowledge that and move on, we'll be back to having fun.

I still can't see where either of these things (racist comments, or someone being called a racist) happened, without taking parts of posts out of context and throwing them through a Crazy Interpretation Machine.

About my choice of the word tantrum, by the way, was simply because it fit more neatly with the imagined scenario of a group of kids playing and one of them throwing a tantrum and leaving, rather than any interpretation of events here.

SurferJoe46
09-08-2011, 04:49 PM
As moving as it is, I guess I'll be the first to blink here and say that I don't really hate Zara as much as she thinks.

But I'll hold a reserve by being the bigger person and admitting nolo contendere, and I'll let her cook her behind again with someone else, which I am sure is going to happen often until upper UPPER management takes notice and ultimately cans her.

Her sig is missing a critical element: rancorous.

It's late and I'm tired from all this waiting for an apology. Have a good day youse guys.

plod
09-08-2011, 04:50 PM
Well as I said in the original thread about where is surferjoe, I thought Joe was a bit more thick skinned then that, but now seeing Joe demanding an apology just comes through like a spoilt brat. Sorry Joe. Thought you were bigger then that.
And Zara, as this seems to of got so out of hand and it appears for no reason as there was no banning put in place. I would just like to remind the people at Pcworld that if it wasn't for the members here this site would be a dark hole much like the magazine is. We all contribute and look after the site by the ways of answering questions and reporting abuse.

Zippity
09-08-2011, 04:55 PM
I'm guessing that this Forum and site will soon be going down the gurgler - and that is sad :( :(

inphinity
09-08-2011, 04:59 PM
Sigh.

goodiesguy
09-08-2011, 04:59 PM
if political correctness keeps on going, new zealand will end up like this: http://lefteyeonthemedia.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/politicallycorrectchristmascrap.jpg

Roscoe
09-08-2011, 05:04 PM
About my choice of the word tantrum, by the way, was simply because it fit more neatly with the imagined scenario of a group of kids playing and one of them throwing a tantrum and leaving, rather than any interpretation of events here.

I thought that the word "tantrum" was very apt. That was what happened with the Irish Joke. No one was upset, but Zara Baxter decided that someone may have been offended and so closed any further discussion. It was, as has been said, similar to a spoilt child, because the other children upset her, she decided to take her ball and go home. Sounded like a tantrum to me.:waughh:

I'm still surprised that this thread has been allowed to continue as long as it has.

Zara Baxter
09-08-2011, 05:04 PM
Just a little bit of advice Zara (from a Business owner) -- The above mentioned Moderators are usually well respected, and very rarely is there the carry on like this has turned into. They have gotten that way by the way "conflicts or other problems" are handled.


Thanks Wainuitech.

This is, in fact, why I normally leave things to the moderators. I only step in when asked to, as I said (here or in another thread). I don't like being asked to step in and handle things. It's not my style, and it's why I try to leave the moderators to it. They're part of this community, and I'm not yet.

On the other hand, I have the legal obligations. I don't ask for your sympathy, but please recognise that I am not doing this to attack anyone personally.

I have tried very hard to handle conflicts gently. Avoiding giving out infractions, and in the contentious thread in question only asking everyone to be careful of race-based generalisations. That's pretty mild.

I'll continue to try and keep as hands-off as possible, and keep contributing here, and perhaps given enough time just hanging out you'll get a more rounded picture of me.

I'm really not sure why this has turned into a carry on.

Unfortunately, I can't contribute any more on this thread. I just got an HP touchpad in to review. (pics on facebook shortly!)

plod
09-08-2011, 05:09 PM
Thanks Wainuitech.

This is, in fact, why I normally leave things to the moderators. I only step in when asked to, as I said (here or in another thread). I don't like being asked to step in and handle things. It's not my style, and it's why I try to leave the moderators to it. They're part of this community, and I'm not yet.



So are you saying you were asked to step in, during the original thread?

SP8's
09-08-2011, 05:13 PM
If so ... by a forum member ... a mod ... a "manager higher than you" ... or Hone ??

GameJunkie
09-08-2011, 05:16 PM
i think if we were to understand SJ's posts in putting ourselves in his shoes and understanding his perspective, then im sure we could understand it (better?) without the instant jump to playing the "he's/she's a racist" card straight up.

in any case what he is saying there may very well be some truth to it, but since we're here and he's there,

reading the whole thread he started i dont think its inflammatory as its been made out to be.

Ulsterman
09-08-2011, 05:22 PM
I have tried very hard to handle conflicts gently. Avoiding giving out infractions, and in the contentious thread in question only asking everyone to be careful of race-based generalisations. That's pretty mild.

Are you having a laugh?

You call closing down a thread handling things gently? It looked like the big stick of someone that has too much power for her young years.

As has been said previously, you have to earn respect. Unfortunately you seem to have lost any respect (and credibility) that you may have had from people on this forum. Perhaps it is best that you spend your time on the magazine and leave the existing mods to do their work - a job that they have been doing very well. I'm not too sure that we can handle any more of your handling conflicts gently.

wainuitech
09-08-2011, 05:29 PM
So are you saying you were asked to step in, during the original thread?

Thats actually a good question.

Often problems and solutions cant be found or dealt with simply because all the facts are not presented.

Bit like fixing some PC problems -- How many times has it happened "if" they had only said " I did, or this happened" -----What ever it was, could the solution be an easy fast one instead of finding out the long way.

So hows about all the cards being laid out on th table -- Did someone else unknown so far mention something, or did someone complain in a PM ???

(no names needed) ?

SP8's
09-08-2011, 05:43 PM
4.30pm knock off Wainui ... regroup for the morning ... :D

Barnabas
09-08-2011, 05:48 PM
Im clean out of popcorn...someone hook a brother up?

gary67
09-08-2011, 06:10 PM
4.30pm knock off Wainui ... regroup for the morning ... :D

I never even started today let alone knock off

wainuitech
09-08-2011, 06:15 PM
4.30pm knock off Wainui ... regroup for the morning ... :D

"SIR YES SIR" :lol:

Time to go and do my night shift now, 2 x :badpc: after dinner.

SP8's
09-08-2011, 06:16 PM
Gary ... sorry ... I was referring to the knock off time of "she who must be obeyed" AKA Zara .. :D

Jen
09-08-2011, 06:37 PM
I am rather angry right now so I have to be careful what I am writing. It is awesome to get home from work and find a thread like this addressed to me.

Firstly, I work full time in a profession that has absolutely nothing to do with PC World/FairFax. My employers do not pay me to visit this forum during work hours and it is against my personal work ethics. I am only ever on this forum when I am at home, and in my own free time as a volunteer. I am pretty annoyed some people think because I have not replied to this thread within X minutes/hours this means I am ignoring/avoiding the topic or not doing my "job" properly.

Secondly, I do apologise to Joe that he has become upset over this matter. I also believe it has been blown way, way out of proportion. I am damned well pissed off with some of the comments I've read.

Let bygone be bygones and move on from this.

WalOne
09-08-2011, 06:38 PM
Around here, Jen and chill do a fantastic job,often un-thanked, and often quietly in the background.

Just a little bit of advice Zara (from a Business owner) -- The above mentioned Moderators are usually well respected, and very rarely is there the carry on like this has turned into. They have gotten that way by the way "conflicts or other problems" are handled.

As anyone who is in a power of position should know, you want respect from people you have to earn it. You cant just pop in out of the blue, start waving a big stick around, chopping people down and not expect a recoil of some description. I've gone back and looked at some of your comments in other threads, its plainly obvious everything has to be Your way if its even slightly Niggling at the rules.

After reading and watching these threads, yes maybe things have been blown up out of proportion.

All that said, a good, Knowledgeable person in charge, also knows when to call a truce (so to speak) and do what ever it takes to resolve the conflict for both parties to be happy and harmony to return.

+ 1 .... Leadership 101

bob_doe_nz
09-08-2011, 06:44 PM
Im clean out of popcorn...someone hook a brother up?

http://imgur.com/tCp90.gif

pcuser42
09-08-2011, 06:48 PM
Damn. I wish I just skipped over this thread. :xmouth:

Chilling_Silence
09-08-2011, 07:17 PM
I am rather angry right now so I have to be careful what I am writing. It is awesome to get home from work and find a thread like this addressed to me.

I wouldn't take it personally, I think it's still aimed at Zara.


Secondly, I do apologise to Joe that he has become upset over this matter.
I'm not meaning to sound sarcastic, but well done, immediately you're able to reach out with an olive branch of peace, more than certain other moderators can, even after much prompting.

Joe mate, I reckon you should apologize too for getting so upset over it. I know it hit a nerve, but it's not the end of the world yeah?

Then, that just leaves Zara, and we can all go to sleep. Ephesians 4:26 ;)

wainuitech
09-08-2011, 07:31 PM
Blimey Chill, had to look that up Ephesians 4:26

Its very true :)

Jen - totally agree with Chill :wub all round, "well done you're able to reach out with an olive branch of peace" -- but what a way to come home.:waughh:

Cicero
09-08-2011, 09:48 PM
I am most impressed with SJ and CS's response, the ladies response are as I would expect.

Winston001
09-08-2011, 10:45 PM
Whoa!! An argument on the interwebthingy. Whodda thought?


I have always held Jen and Joe is high regard. That has not changed.

qazwsxokmijn
09-08-2011, 11:09 PM
Hadn't kept up with the goings on of late, but for the record I reckon SJ is the man and Jen....can never hate on Jen (despite her banning me once or twice in the past)!:wub

Chilling_Silence
10-08-2011, 01:05 AM
Awww thanks for the support guys :)

Speaking of which, I've not banned Metla in a while... Maybe I should now, just for good measure!

Cicero
10-08-2011, 06:51 AM
Speaking of which, I've not banned Metla in a while... Maybe I should now, just for good measure!

I think someone is feeding him angel dust, talk about soft.

plod
10-08-2011, 07:36 AM
Awww thanks for the support guys :)

Speaking of which, I've not banned Metla in a while... Maybe I should now, just for good measure!

How can the head cheerleader of the Metla fan club possibly ban him

rob_on_guitar
10-08-2011, 10:31 AM
Couldn't get past the 4th page. Can't believe some peoples high and mighty stuff.
Anyways PCworld - about computers and **** ok, not the pc brigade please. Those losers can **** off.

Woo! Bacon time.

Gobe1
10-08-2011, 10:33 AM
Hmmm bacon :drool:

pcuser42
10-08-2011, 10:42 AM
BACON BACON BACON :drool :drool

rob_on_guitar
10-08-2011, 10:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUKpVz8hRcs&feature=feedlik

johcar
10-08-2011, 10:52 AM
Awww thanks for the support guys :)

Speaking of which, I've not banned Metla in a while... Maybe I should now, just for good measure!

A "pre-emptive ban"??? :D

R2x1
10-08-2011, 11:04 AM
Could someone please throw a double six? Then we can start again arguing about something educational, like how do you get Nortons onto an iPad, and what would you do next?

gary67
10-08-2011, 11:25 AM
Could someone please throw a double six? Then we can start again arguing about something educational, like how do you get Nortons onto an iPad, and what would you do next?

Laugh as it crashed :devil

It might be more use getting an elephant onto an iPad2

Strommer
10-08-2011, 12:20 PM
Speaking of which, I've not banned Metla in a while... Maybe I should now, just for good measure!

:lol: :thumbs:

:lol:

:lol:

:lol:

WalOne
10-08-2011, 12:31 PM
Be careful, Metla may be part of some minority group we don't know about.

Then this may start all over again. :D

Greven
10-08-2011, 02:52 PM
Are there any anti-virus products for IOS? I'll bet Symantec are busy hounding Apple to let them on the app store.

stu161204
10-08-2011, 03:02 PM
Speaking of which, I've not banned Metla in a while... Maybe I should now, just for good measure!

:lol:

I thought Metla has just come off a ban from ether Zara or Jen.....

R2x1
10-08-2011, 03:05 PM
Laugh as it crashed :devil

It might be more use getting an elephant onto an iPad2
Maybe, but the difference would be infinitesimal ;)

gary67
10-08-2011, 03:42 PM
Maybe, but the difference would be infinitesimal ;)

I thought it would be incremental as in if the first increment of an elephant failed it could automatically cycle to the next increment of a hippo :horrified

pctek
10-08-2011, 03:46 PM
Nortons onto an iPad, and what would you do next?

Watch it crash?

SurferJoe46
10-08-2011, 05:14 PM
I am rather angry right now so I have to be careful what I am writing. It is awesome to get home from work and find a thread like this addressed to me.

Firstly, I work full time in a profession that has absolutely nothing to do with PC World/FairFax. My employers do not pay me to visit this forum during work hours and it is against my personal work ethics. I am only ever on this forum when I am at home, and in my own free time as a volunteer. I am pretty annoyed some people think because I have not replied to this thread within X minutes/hours this means I am ignoring/avoiding the topic or not doing my "job" properly.

Secondly, I do apologise to Joe that he has become upset over this matter. I also believe it has been blown way, way out of proportion. I am damned well pissed off with some of the comments I've read.

Let bygone be bygones and move on from this.

I honestly wish you hadn't been involved in this, and frankly my wrath was delayed for quite some time. It took me a long time to get over the anger of what you said, and for that I can attribute what you said possibly to a printer's devil or whatever.

I actually vacated myself from the site for the time I did as I was riled badly and didn't want to come out in anger, but instead in a well-modulated and logically laid out response, point by point.

That I believe I did and I have some fair number of members who agree with my stance, so there's that too.

It was, however said - and what may be the real instigating problem here was the Zara-person who poked up this whole shootin' match.

I totally agree that I should not hold you accountable for a typo or a misdirected response - but print is print and I took it as it was written. I found it extremely inflammatory and so totally out of character for you to say what you did - that I couldn't let it slide.

But time and circumstances now tell me that you are right in asking for it to be done away with and the most logical thing to do is for me to extend a white rose to you and hope you accept it from me.

That way I can now re-direct my chagrine at that 'other person' who has come into what I consider my favorite cozy site with people whom I consider friends - and she has kicked the furniture around and broken all the windows in what was once a very friendly and family-oriented place.

This is where I once felt safe to speak the truth, (even if I DO have a rather arcane and parallax view of things that might leave some folks scratching their head and say: "What'd he say?").

I always try to bring something of interest, and even self deprecating from time to time to amuse and help people understand the views of a Yank (the noun, not the verb). The latest "Pink 38 Caliber Self-Circumcision" was one of those things I posted and it seems to have tickled a few ribs.

Here's my point: I am so far removed from racial slurs that this just raised all sorts of red flags in me.

It's a touchy subject indeed for me and one that I've had to expunge from my previous life as a child in what was the worst and most obnoxious household with two alcoholic parents who hated everyone equally and let it be know vociferously and often. I feel guilty for all the times they foisted these hateful things on me and that I didn't rebel at them at a much earlier age.

That's the specter under which I live today: hate and racial fear mongering from a previous life.

It has no place in my current world (and I know you understand what I mean her, Jen) and thus I reacted vehemently to it, especially when told I have been prejudicial.

I felt/feel manipulated somehow - I still don't know how - but that's what I believe has happened to this F1 familial relationship.

Please take this rose from me ( @-% ) and let's get this all over with - (but let's watch our backs as there's a new, crazed sheriff in town).

Trev
10-08-2011, 06:03 PM
Will said Joe as usual. Keep smiling.
:)

Cicero
10-08-2011, 06:06 PM
It's a case of,.I am the only one in step.

R2x1
10-08-2011, 07:13 PM
Yeah, partly so; but that other leg is right out of phase

Paul.Cov
10-08-2011, 07:24 PM
Could someone please throw a double six? Then we can start again arguing about something educational, like how do you get Nortons onto an iPad, and what would you do next?

Well, then you battle to get a clean uninstall of Nortons without having to wipe the iPad or lose your emails.

mikebartnz
10-08-2011, 09:38 PM
With all due respect then, why not leave the heavy-handed moderation to those who are here every day (Even though it's unpaid and I have my own full-time job to attend to, as well as starting a family. Jen too.), and have built a bit more of a rapport with the members? Surely you can understand why the regulars feel you're riding in on a "white horse" so to speak, and essentially ripping the familiar ground out from under them, with respect to wanting to redo the forum Rules, amongst other things.

That, and is a little humility and repentance from both sides too much to ask?
Well said Chill.

Zara you need to learn when to stop digging a hole for yourself.

SP8's
10-08-2011, 10:13 PM
Especially when there are so many SJ supporters willing to help dig said hole ... :xmouth:

Zippity
10-08-2011, 11:22 PM
Methinks it is high time that this thread was finally closed.

No good is going to come from prolonging it.

pcuser42
10-08-2011, 11:31 PM
Methinks it is high time that this thread was finally closed.

No good is going to come from prolonging it.

And start this entire argument again? :rolleyes:

:pf1mobmini:

mikebartnz
10-08-2011, 11:43 PM
Methinks it is high time that this thread was finally closed.

No good is going to come from prolonging it.
You are not a Mod yet so be a good lad and go to bed.:D

R2x1
10-08-2011, 11:50 PM
Let's have less of this "good" word. We have traditions to uphold.

ubergeek85
11-08-2011, 12:29 AM
[snip] as well as starting a family.

Holy crap... bun in the oven?

Cicero
11-08-2011, 06:40 AM
Holy crap... bun in the oven?

Yes that was noted.

Chilling_Silence
11-08-2011, 09:33 AM
Nah not yet, just practising ;)

Roscoe
11-08-2011, 10:44 AM
(but let's watch our backs as there's a new, crazed sheriff in town).

Well said, Joe. Very apt. Although I would hope, by the reaction that this new crazed sheriff has recieved, that if the said new crazed sheriff does not leave town, at least she would have the sense to keep her head down or next time she may get it shot off.

Ulsterman
11-08-2011, 01:41 PM
Interesting to note that the new crazed sheriff appears to be keeping her interfering head down. Not such a bad idea. Think she'll ever have to guts to poke her nose in where it's not wanted or needed again? We sincerely hope not, but as Joe has said, we need to keep a watchful eye. You never know what a person with such a bad attitude and a position of power can get up to. Let's hope that she has the sense to not come back to where she is not needed and so obviously not wanted.

Our present mods are operating extremely well without any outside interference and there is no reason to suspect that that will change - or needs to.

mikebartnz
11-08-2011, 02:18 PM
Interesting to note that the new crazed sheriff appears to be keeping her interfering head down. Not such a bad idea. Think she'll ever have to guts to poke her nose in where it's not wanted or needed again? We sincerely hope not, but as Joe has said, we need to keep a watchful eye. You never know what a person with such a bad attitude and a position of power can get up to. Let's hope that she has the sense to not come back to where she is not needed and so obviously not wanted.

Our present mods are operating extremely well without any outside interference and there is no reason to suspect that that will change - or needs to.
I think it may be time for you to keep your head down too.:D

WalOne
11-08-2011, 02:18 PM
I think my signature should be dedicated to the new Sheriff:

“The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech.”

:xmouth:

R2x1
11-08-2011, 02:25 PM
Arrr Capn., there be storms in that tea cup that'll have yer other eye out and unsling yer 'ook.

johcar
11-08-2011, 02:36 PM
I think a little less 'poking the bear' is called for here.

Zara has a job to do which, among many other things - like researching and writing articles for the magazine - involves administering this Forum.

Possibly, in this case and from her point of view, she was letting us forum-dwellers know that she was keeping an eye on that particular thread to make sure it didn't go too far beyond the boundaries for which (I presume) she is ultimately responsible.

There seems to me that a lot of exercise was gained by many people over this issue, with various parties jumping to conclusions that were not necessarily in evidence and things just got out of hand - a very common occurrence in a non face-to-face environment, since it's hard to infer the tone of the message without the visual or auditory cues that you get when speaking to someone.

Chill and Jen do a great job of moderating (especially considering they do it for free!!), but they cannot be here all day every day, as they both have jobs and other after hours responsibilities.

So without trying to defend Zara (for which I have no mandate anyway) and in the interests of keeping things on a friendly level, I think we should all take a chill-pill and give Zara, being the newbie (but also the representative of the owner of the Forum) a little leeway and chalk this up as a learning experience for all...

Zippity
11-08-2011, 03:07 PM
Regardless of the crap being posted here, we are ALL guests here on this forum and what the host says goes! - period.

mikebartnz
11-08-2011, 03:15 PM
Regardless of the crap being posted here, we are ALL guests here on this forum and what the host says goes! - period.
While that is true, without the guests as you say you do not have a forum.

Zippity
11-08-2011, 03:32 PM
The chicken and the egg theory :) :)

Gobe1
11-08-2011, 04:26 PM
Well any one that quotes Bill and Ted is ok in my book :)

Pato
11-08-2011, 04:48 PM
if political correctness keeps on going, new zealand will end up like this: http://lefteyeonthemedia.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/politicallycorrectchristmascrap.jpg+1

Jester
11-08-2011, 06:47 PM
Damn, thought it was a debate on the Cowboys vs Aliens movie.

rob_on_guitar
12-08-2011, 04:56 AM
The chicken and the egg theory :) :)

More like who's chicken and who's an egg.