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View Full Version : Help please. Persistant BSoD's and ht sync flood errors.



LiquidSnowIsH2O
08-06-2011, 11:18 AM
Hello,

I don't know much about resolving software issues so I've come to you guys for help. I built myself a custom PC rig about a month ago and it has been working fine until about two days ago when I started experiencing BSoD errors while watching video content on megavideo and videobb. I messed around trying to fix it (thought firefox 5.0 beta was the problem at first i uninstalled that, performed some video driver updates, no success) and then i started getting hyper transport sync flood errors. I did a windows restore point, errors persisted. backed up my important files and did a fresh OS install but the errors still persist. I don't know exactly what to do and I'm running out of ideas. I checked the .dmp files. Suspected causes were said to be ntkrnlpa.exe (3 times) mouclass.sys, l1c62x86.sys (twice) and vsdatant.sys. Here are the most recent .dmp files i haven't taken a look at them yet: http://www.mediafire.com/?qu59f74074tygy3 .

My system follows:
-AMD Phenom II X4 840 3.2 ghz
-2x2gb g-skill RAM 1600mhz f3-12800cl9d-4gbrl
-xfx hd5670 hd567xznl3
-MSI 760gm-p35 Mobo
-ASUS 24x DVD burner drw-24bist
-Cooler Master elite power 400 watt PSU
-Western digital caviar green 500gb

I overclocked my CPU and RAM a little bit a couple of days before i started having issues.

wratterus
08-06-2011, 11:25 AM
Welcome to PressF1.

It's probably something to do with the overclock, either RAM voltages are wrong or it's stuffed something.

Have you reset your BIOS to defaults and checked the voltages?

Have you run a RAM diagnostic?

Use memtest86+ (http://www.memtest.org/) and do a couple of passes.

A 400w Power Supply is extremely marginal for your system, especially if you are overclocking. Do you have access to a more powerful PSU that you could try? I would recommend upgrading to a better one anyway, something like this (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=14915)or this (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=11077)would be good for your system. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the problem.

Speedy Gonzales
08-06-2011, 11:37 AM
tcpip.sys, and hal.dll are crashing. Stop errors are 0x000000d1, 0x00000124 (for hal.dll), and 0x0000001e

Run this and see if you've got a rootkit. http://support.kaspersky.com/viruses/solutions?qid=208280684

That 0x00000124 stop error is a CPU / hardware related stop error. This may have something to do with the overclocking.

Is the latest BIOS on this? vsdatant.sys belongs to Zonealarm, is this still installed? . Is Avast the virus scanner or the Internet security? If its the internet security, you should only have 1 firewall

LiquidSnowIsH2O
08-06-2011, 12:40 PM
I ran Memtest once no errors. BIOS was reset to optimized defaults. I rolled back the OC to default, and it was running fine for a day or two before i started getting errors so i don't think the OC is to blame. I don't think my system needs that much power, i have a friend with a slightly slower off the shelf system (hp, amd quad core 3.0-3.1 ghz, 4 gb ram ddr3-1333, hd 5570, 1tb hdd, etc.) running off 300 watts.

Zonealarm is still installed. Avast is the anti-virus. Pretty sure Zonealarm deactivated windows firewall and my version of avast doesn't include internet security or any firewall functionality. Scan completed without finding anything. I'm on BIOS 10.4 never updated BIOS before although there is a ver. 10.6 out.

Speedy Gonzales
08-06-2011, 12:54 PM
Well your mate is pushing it a bit with a crappy 300w PSU. Sooner or later something will fail, because of lack of power. Depending on what else is in the case

Did you run tdsskiller?

wratterus
08-06-2011, 12:57 PM
HP and other brand name manufactures are not good with supplying decent PSUs. IMO your mate is crazy for running that system on a 300w, and probably a cheap no name 300w too.

The minimum recommended PSU for your card is a 400w. You want to have a bit of headroom there, especially if you are overclocking.

I would update the BIOS, then do another reinstall, and not put ZA or anything like that on there - put on a trial of NOD32 or MSSE, run it for a few days and then see if you are still having problems.

LiquidSnowIsH2O
08-06-2011, 01:03 PM
I ran tdsskiller. No problems. It's off the shelf so it's going to keep on working but 300w is the bare minimum. Not like you can OC on an off the shelf board anyways. Bit silly how based on the card a graphics card manufacturer can tell you how powerful a psu you need without taking into account nay of the other numerous components. I restored the fsb, dram to cpu ratio, and cpu ratio to defaults so i'm not OC'ing anymore. I haven't gotten another bluescreen yet but i have been running windows in safe mode and on another user account for awhile too so... Not gonna update BIOS because i've never done it and i don't want to mess up the system any further. Extreme power supply calculator suggest 289 watts or more, vbutils suggests 396.5 watts or more.

pctek
08-06-2011, 03:03 PM
It's off the shelf so it's going to keep on working . .

:lol:

And where did you get that idea? !!

LiquidSnowIsH2O
09-06-2011, 06:23 AM
:lol:

And where did you get that idea? !!

HP tries to reduce costs wherever possible, they strapped the cheapest PSU they could find that would reliably power the system. They also tested it to make sure the system works flawlessly, no point cheaping out on a PSU if you're going to have to pay to fix it when the customer sends the system back to you during the warranty period. That's why they make sure that it only breaks after the warranty expires. :thumbs:

LiquidSnowIsH2O
09-06-2011, 06:29 AM
Back to topic, I haven't gotten a BSoD in a little while so hopefully it's fixed. It probably was the overclock.

Do you think I could just push the front side bus up two Mhz (currently at stock 200) and change my CPU:dram ratio to 1:6 (currently 1:3.33) w/o adjusting any voltages so that I can safely take full advantage of my 1600mhz ram?(Currently running at 1333mhz)

Speedy Gonzales
09-06-2011, 09:19 AM
You'll soon find out, try it. If it crashes again, then you'll have to set it back to the default settings

LiquidSnowIsH2O
12-06-2011, 03:47 AM
Tried to OC again and I got BSoD's. I think my mobo can't run my RAM at 1600Mhz, it doesn't say that it can on the box but it does say that says that it can run "DDR3-1600(O.C)" on the MSI website.

Perhaps the minidumps will shed some more light upon this issue and help determine once and for all what component is causing these irritating errors: http://www.mediafire.com/?1paiid096y11u0b

Speedy Gonzales
12-06-2011, 08:23 AM
Zonealarm, is crashing / vsdatant.sys (uninstall it). The ATI drivers are crashing. tcpip.sys is crashing. And i8042prt.sys is crashing (stop error: 0x0000003d). I would also uninstall Avast. for now.

One site the ATI drivers crashing was fixed by getting a bigger PSU http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f24/solved-ati-radeon-hd-5800-random-crash-under-windows-7-a-575144.html

LiquidSnowIsH2O
12-06-2011, 08:40 AM
I only get a blue screen when I try and OC my CPU or my RAM. My 5670 has been successfully overclocked for a little while now and I haven't gotten any errors. For those reasons I doubt that either ZoneAlarm, the ATI drivers, or Avast are responsible for these crashes. Perhaps Windows is mistaken? I don't think it would be the first time... It would seem to me that logically the issue would have to be directly linked to either my RAM, my CPU, or my MOBO. I'll leave the setup as it is for awhile longer (2 days) to make sure I don't experience any problems with the system as it is. Then I'll just raise the FSB/DRAM to 1:4 and see if I get a problem, if I do then it's probably the RAM to blame (possibly due to an incompatibility with the MOBO as previously mentioned).

Speedy Gonzales
12-06-2011, 08:42 AM
Do you want to fix the crashing or not?

The dmp file says ZA and the ATI drivers are the cause.

icow
12-06-2011, 09:26 AM
I only get a blue screen when I try and OC my CPU or my RAM. My 5670 has been successfully overclocked for a little while now and I haven't gotten any errors. For those reasons I doubt that either ZoneAlarm, the ATI drivers, or Avast are responsible for these crashes. Perhaps Windows is mistaken? I don't think it would be the first time... It would seem to me that logically the issue would have to be directly linked to either my RAM, my CPU, or my MOBO. I'll leave the setup as it is for awhile longer (2 days) to make sure I don't experience any problems with the system as it is. Then I'll just raise the FSB/DRAM to 1:4 and see if I get a problem, if I do then it's probably the RAM to blame (possibly due to an incompatibility with the MOBO as previously mentioned).

oc needs more power = less power for gpu = ati driver crash (see speedys link)
oc gfx card = more power need = not enough watts in the psu = driver crash
Just my thoughts.

Agent_24
12-06-2011, 12:03 PM
/Not gonna update BIOS because i've never done it and i don't want to mess up the system any further. Extreme power supply calculator suggest 289 watts or more, vbutils suggests 396.5 watts or more.

Forget watts.

Current is more important, because most cheap PSUs will claim a 1000 watts and can only deliver 100.

Updating BIOS is very easy.

LiquidSnowIsH2O
12-06-2011, 03:12 PM
So is it a driver problem or a lack of power?

Failing to update the BIOS properly could result in a bricked system. Not gonna risk it. I can find a way to screw up practically anything. (“A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”)

Speedy Gonzales
12-06-2011, 03:19 PM
2 drivers are crashing it like I said, the file belonging to ZA and the file belonging to the ATI drivers. The ZA file causing the crash, MAY be causing the tcpip.sys crash.

A lack of power may also cause it. Like the link I posted

Not too sure what would cause the i8042prt.sys crash. This is for keyboard and the mouse by the looks of it

icow
12-06-2011, 08:19 PM
So is it a driver problem or a lack of power?

I'd say lack of power causing driver failure for the ati driver. No idea about the za bit.

Speedy Gonzales
12-06-2011, 10:05 PM
Bluescreenview says the cause is ZA and the file belonging to the ATI drivers

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html

Install it and run it. Look for yourself

LiquidSnowIsH2O
13-06-2011, 02:14 AM
Doesn't the fact that I had/have ZoneAlarm running for two full days now without getting any errors dictate that it can't be the cause? However the ATI drivers which are directly linked to the hardware that is being stressed when I OC and start to experience issues are a lot more likely to be the culprit. No?

Agent_24
13-06-2011, 02:29 AM
Failing to update the BIOS properly could result in a bricked system. Not gonna risk it. I can find a way to screw up practically anything.

Failing to walk down the stairs properly could result in a broken neck, but you still do that, right?

As I said, updating BIOS is very easy. In most motherboards now a flashing utility is even built into the BIOS, and you call it at POST by pressing a key combo like Alt+F2

Then all you need is to select the file from a disk (floppy, CD, USB) and away you go. If you pick the wrong BIOS file etc it will recognize it as incorrect and won't let you use it

(Your board has M-Flash system, which has these features)

Only thing you can be worried about is tripping over your power lead during the update, or something. But even if that did happen, you can still recover the BIOS usually, and with your board I think it even has an in-circuit programming header for the EEPROM.


Doesn't the fact that I had/have ZoneAlarm running for two full days now without getting any errors dictate that it can't be the cause? However the ATI drivers which are directly linked to the hardware that is being stressed when I OC and start to experience issues are a lot more likely to be the culprit. No?

No, because ZoneAlarm is a piece of rubbish and is known to cause BSOD problems.

ATI video drivers aren't that great either, although should at least be more reliable than ZoneAlarm anyway.

The review I read on your PSU says that at full load, ripple is just on specification - and that's brand new. As the PSU ages, the capacitors will degrade. (A big problem in cheap PSUs which use cheap capacitors that fail a lot faster than decent ones)

Old capacitors have worse ripple suppression. High ripple = an unstable system, or if worse enough\left long enough, hardware damage.

Then again, you said you built it a month ago so that probably isn't the problem (yet)




But aside from that, your "HyperTransport Sync Flood" errors are strange. From this thread though: http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=88140 it make sense it was probably related to the overclock but could also be caused by a cheap PSU being pushed to the limits.


"1. To high of an OC without the ample amount of CPU volts.
2. Plain, not enough CPU Volts at any speed.
3. Possible Bad power supply.
4. Motherboard with very high amount of VDroop which ultimately leads back to "Not Enough CPU Volts". This will reveal itself with a load on the CPU. Maybe not during typical use. Could just be that the motherboard has CPU power providing issues as well (Good power from PSU but motherboard wastes the power before reaching the CPU). "


I would contact MSI about that one...

LiquidSnowIsH2O
13-06-2011, 05:58 AM
1) If you honestly believe that I should update my BIOS I will do so in the near future.
2) If ZoneAlarm isn't any good what free firewall do you recommend?
3)Nothing I can do about the ATI drivers now can I? They are already the most recent version and my GPU won't operate properly without them, correct?
4)I'm too poor to get a new PSU never mind a decent one but lesson learnt for my next build.
5)I guess I am unable to reliably OC with my current PSU.
6)Out of the options you have listed #1 is the only one that could apply.
7) Do you think my system is capable of at least handling another two case fans I would dearly like to install?

HT sync flood errors have long since ceased after my fresh OS install.

Agent_24
13-06-2011, 01:10 PM
I don't necessarily believe you should update your BIOS, but it can fix problems. A lot of the time they update RAM compatibility etc and improve stability (and this is especially true for the 1600Mhz RAM which needs to run at OC speeds) - however... AMD don't guarantee anything with 1600Mhz RAM so you may just be unfortunate.

BIOS updating it is not as bad as you would think if you do it properly. Just read and follow the instructions carefully. If something doesn't seem to make sense, ask here or the MSI forum first. I have done many BIOS updates and the only failures I had were caused either by flashing software that runs inside Windows (Never use this if possible) or faulty hardware, not user error - and in both cases I was able to recover them manually with an EEPROM programmer.

Sometimes the board won't POST after BIOS update (seen that with several Asus boards) and they required a BIOS reset to get them to start. Probably something to do with old settings conflicting with the new BIOS code.

As a firewall, ZoneAlarm is OK - however I and other people on this forum have found that it can be quite an unstable program at times and have given up on it. Because of this I wouldn't be surprised if it was part of the problem. At the very least consider removing it from the equation until you are confident it is not the problem. I personally use Comodo, but there are several others. For testing you might prefer to just use Windows Firewall, it's better than nothing.

ATi drivers may or may not be the issue but with several other things causing BSOD I would guess it's probably more likely they were all caused by something else (probably unstable system due to overclock or power issue)

As for PSU, even if you can't buy a new one you should seriously try to borrow one from someone else for testing. If you can overclock stable on a better PSU that will show what is the problem, but your PSU may not be the problem, you may just have an unfortunate combination of parts that aren't good at overclocking. Only way to find out is to borrow one and test it.

See, a decent brand 400 watt PSU would be able to run at full capacity and still keep ripple very low. However as I said before yours almost goes out of specification on full load (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Cooler-Master-Elite-Power-400-W-Power-Supply-Review/975/7) which isn't very good. If it's running at close to maximum capacity and then you try overclocking you may push it over the edge and get much worse ripple. Some PSUs drastically increase with ripple and noise when run just slightly over the rated capacity. But of course without expensive equipment this is hard to prove. The best way is just to swap it out and see if it becomes stable.

You can probably run some more fans, try it and see... if it all goes downhill again then you know probably not... :lol:

Speedy Gonzales
13-06-2011, 01:19 PM
According to this

http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=88140

That HT Sync Flood error means

When not enough volts are being provided to the CPU it will reboot at any time (Especially during heavy to max loads) with either a black screen or verticle lines right before rebooting. While posting you see this messege.

"hypertransport sync flood error has occured. Press F1 to resume"

So there are a number of Scenarios that may cause this BUT they ALL lead back to the main reason. Not enough power to the CPU at the time that the heavy load produces failure.

1. To high of an OC without the ample amount of CPU volts.

2. Plain, not enough CPU Volts at any speed.

3. Possible Bad power supply.

4. Motherboard with very high amount of VDroop which ultimately leads back to "Not Enough CPU Volts". This will reveal itself with a load on the CPU. Maybe not during typical use. Could just be that the motherboard has CPU power providing issues as well (Good power from PSU but motherboard wastes the power before reaching the CPU).

LiquidSnowIsH2O
14-06-2011, 01:28 AM
So it seems to me that all these problems lead back to the PSU. Since it works now, my PSU can power my system and my moderately OC'd GPU. If I were to overclock only 2 components and at that very lightly, which do you think would benefit me more in a gaming scenario, in an everyday scenario, and in a video encoding/editing scenario?

Increasing the RAM frequency doesn't change the fact that it is running at 1.5V so it can't cause any problems can it?

Speedy Gonzales
14-06-2011, 09:15 AM
If you want video editing (I dont think this takes a long time) / encoding to be faster, buy a Nvidia card, since some programs take advantage of CUDA / GPU accleration.

Which some / or most Nvidia cards support. Check the specs, first, before you buy it

ATI cards dont. I may actually buy a Nvidia card, because I do video editing, and I also convert MP4 files (I record with this tuner), to other formats.

I converted a 4.13 GB MP4 file (1920x1080) to Xvid, the other day (exit wounds, it was on TV the other day) and it took over 3 hrs. With CUDA, it'll probably take that down to less than an hour.

CUDA is meant to speed this up considerably

LiquidSnowIsH2O
14-06-2011, 10:16 AM
I think I'd spring for a nice modular power supply before a nvidia card if I had the money. Chances that I'd get a nvidia card are very low anyways since I'm an ATI fanboy.

wratterus
14-06-2011, 10:27 AM
I think I'd spring for a nice modular power supply before a nvidia card if I had the money. Chances that I'd get a nvidia card are very low anyways since I'm an ATI fanboy.

What did we say right at the start? :rolleyes:

LiquidSnowIsH2O
14-06-2011, 10:40 AM
My PSU is worthless?

wratterus
14-06-2011, 10:53 AM
Not worthless, just underpowered.

LiquidSnowIsH2O
14-06-2011, 11:47 AM
I say worthless cause from now on I'm getting modular power supplies, half the power cables aren't being used at all. You should've seen the cable management before I put in the PSU and after. :/

wratterus
14-06-2011, 12:08 PM
Yep, that's pretty normal. :D

Did you have a look at the PSUs I posted earlier? They are both very good.

LiquidSnowIsH2O
16-06-2011, 05:22 AM
I'm not gonna get any new PSU's now... But for the next time I upgrade my system I will probably have to upgrade my power supply too and that time I will for sure get something modular.

LiquidSnowIsH2O
22-06-2011, 12:26 AM
I pushed my RAM to 1600 yesterday and so far it seems to be running ok, except for one instance where I came back to find my computer screen asleep and no attempt I made to wake it prevailed. Either the computer was hibernating and I failing in my attempts awaken it, or an issue with my GPU resulted in a loss of video input which is a lot more plausible considering that after I rebooted from the emergency shutdown everything was tinted a little red (what was white appeared pink) and the resolution wasn't what it was supposed to be.

BTW: ZoneAlarm is gone now; replaced by Comodo firewall & Defense+.

LiquidSnowIsH2O
22-06-2011, 12:51 AM
And then I got a BSoD so back to defaults it is. For the record all I changed in the bios was the FSB/DRAM ratio from 1:3.33 to 1:4 and I also disabled spread spectrum.

SolMiester
22-06-2011, 09:21 AM
And then I got a BSoD so back to defaults it is. For the record all I changed in the bios was the FSB/DRAM ratio from 1:3.33 to 1:4 and I also disabled spread spectrum.

You need to do some reading on Phenom clocking....HTT Sync errors are common, if you dont know what you are doing...
Overclockers Phenom Guide (http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=596023)

LiquidSnowIsH2O
23-06-2011, 03:09 AM
Was a BSoD not a HTT. HTT's went away after I reinstalled.

LiquidSnowIsH2O
23-06-2011, 03:22 AM
Okay I found the problem, My Phenom II X4 840 can't run DDR3-1600, any attempt I make to run my RAM at this speed with my current CPU will result in a BSoD, plus I'm not quite sure my mobo supports it either.