PDA

View Full Version : Bet this would never happen in NZ..



paulw
26-03-2011, 06:59 PM
From the NZ Herald yesterday. The Japanese don't mess around..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10714818

I bet in CHCH it would take about 3 months to do a basic repair and it would have road cones and a 30K speed limit and at the end of 8 months it may get sealed and still have road cones all around it and at 12 months it may be open to full speed traffic.

Nomad
26-03-2011, 07:10 PM
for us, state of emergency has been extended for the foreseeable future :D

and we are gonna cut kiwisaver, wff, everything is on the table

Battleneter2
26-03-2011, 07:11 PM
Actually you would be wrong

I took a Walk down the badly damaged Anzac Drive (busy main arterial kind of road) in CHCH 3 days after the September quake.

The council already had a large grader removing the surface and filling holes. Within 7 days (from memory) it was fully resealed and cars driving down it as far as breezes RD. I was somewhat amazed.

No Camera crew or media, no fuss.


Went back and copied this out of another forum exactly the same article posted and how long in NZ. One response to the latests quake...
""Hills road in Christchurch was owned quite badly. It was closed, ripped apart, re-shingled, re-sealed and re-opened within 4 days""

PinoyKiw
26-03-2011, 07:27 PM
Have to agree with you Battleneter2, they have made very rapid progress in some parts of Christchurch. They wasted no time in removing 99% of the sand and mud. In some places though, nothing has been done other than put up cones, I know of several holes in the road that are protected by cones, some drunk will remove the cone and a poor cyclist or motor cycle will bury themselves in it. A few shovel loads of shingle would solve the problem.

But credit where credit is deserved.........they have moved very fast this time compared to Sept in getting things on the move, hopefully they will keep up the steady work.

prefect
26-03-2011, 09:31 PM
The japs probaly dont have the Resource Management Act and can just fix the road

coldfront
26-03-2011, 11:29 PM
Amount of posts I have read on various forums about this road rebuild and comparing it to Christchurch the underlying theme seems to be a negative kiwi attitude of not bothering to look at what has be done. Something the media is just as guilty for not reporting.

Quite overlooked the fact that the Japs have not been able to put a lid on the nuclear reactor yet.

That section of road was not Tsunami affected or like Christchurch floating on porridge. An easy fix even a New Zealand contractor would be capable of.

Battleneter2
27-03-2011, 08:53 AM
Amount of posts I have read on various forums about this road rebuild and comparing it to Christchurch the underlying theme seems to be a negative kiwi attitude of not bothering to look at what has be done. Something the media is just as guilty for not reporting.


Its one of the things I have noticed about Kiwis, we like to put ourselves down, even when we do stuff really well. To add its astonishing how quickly power and water have been restored to most, I had believed a few more months to get to this point.

Lurking
27-03-2011, 03:48 PM
From the NZ Herald yesterday. The Japanese don't mess around..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10714818

I bet in CHCH it would take about 3 months to do a basic repair and it would have road cones and a 30K speed limit and at the end of 8 months it may get sealed and still have road cones all around it and at 12 months it may be open to full speed traffic.

Cheeky bast**d, do the maths. for starters 127mil over 4mil. then look at the area of land on shore.

We can't move move for repair people.

Don't forget Christchurch was built on a swamp and how the h e l l the Environment Court allowed the go ahead in Bexley to be built on, we will never know, probably $$$$$$$ in somebodies pocket.

ECAN had squashed it initially, but they have been disbanded and run by a Commissioner now, lol.

Lurking.

bk T
27-03-2011, 04:30 PM
...

and we are gonna cut kiwisaver, wff, everything is on the table

Yes, everything except politicians' pay & allowances packet.

paulw
27-03-2011, 07:29 PM
It's good to see that CHCH's roading is getting repaired so fast. Now shall we take bets on how long to rebuild the city center??

Battleneter2
28-03-2011, 08:16 AM
It's good to see that CHCH's roading is getting repaired so fast. Now shall we take bets on how long to rebuild the city center??

Re-building will be progressive for the next 10 years, we are talking well over a 1000 buildings being demolished inside the CBD alone, with probably that figure again needing tangible work. 50% of buildings in the CBD have no or light damage.

Overall a massive job considering Japans task and resources vs NZ, NZ has the much bigger job.







Don't forget Christchurch was built on a swamp

"Parts" of CHCH are built on a swamp, the land is very diverse from hard rock to old riverbeds to swamp. The land can vary in the same suburb.

Gobe1
28-03-2011, 08:37 AM
for us, state of emergency has been extended for the foreseeable future :D

and we are gonna cut kiwisaver, wff, everything is on the table

The money has to come from somewhere, they could always borrow more.......

Lurking
28-03-2011, 09:53 AM
Re-building will be progressive for the next 10 years, we are talking well over a 1000 buildings being demolished inside the CBD alone, with probably that figure again needing tangible work. 50% of buildings in the CBD have no or light damage.

Overall a massive job considering Japans task and resources vs NZ, NZ has the much bigger job.






"Parts" of CHCH are built on a swamp, the land is very diverse from hard rock to old riverbeds to swamp. The land can vary in the same suburb.

1) Re-building we have heard could be from 3 to 18 years, so we proffered 15 for ours, reply, could be.

2) Daughter took a course in geology, so will re-check "parts".

As matter of interest on "riverbeds", as kids playing in the Mangatera River in Hawkes Bay, we had to be pulled out of "quick-sand" after stepping off solid shingle (rocks).

Still say Christchurch should be re-built out on the Canterbury plains, not near Darfield tho.

Port Hills have not come off without any damage this time, built on rocks too !.

Lurking.

Battleneter2
28-03-2011, 05:10 PM
1) Re-building we have heard could be from 3 to 18 years, so we proffered 15 for ours, reply, could be.

2) Daughter took a course in geology, so will re-check "parts".

As matter of interest on "riverbeds", as kids playing in the Mangatera River in Hawkes Bay, we had to be pulled out of "quick-sand" after stepping off solid shingle (rocks).

Still say Christchurch should be re-built out on the Canterbury plains, not near Darfield tho.

Port Hills have not come off without any damage this time, built on rocks too !.

Lurking.

Rebuilding is progressive, but I would suggest much under 10 years to rebuild the same amount of floor space lost in whatever form is probably dreaming, but keep in mind CHCH as a whole did have a over capacity in business floor space.

There is next to no chance they will move the CBD imho, although sure no one is officially ruling it out.

Keep in mind around 50% ish of the buildings in the CBD are largely fine, there is lessons to learn in construction to offset the soft ground.

Lastly this type of ground is hardly unique to CHCH, "parts" of Wellington, California and many others all has similar ground.

Lurking
29-03-2011, 11:50 AM
Rebuilding is progressive, but I would suggest much under 10 years to rebuild the same amount of floor space lost in whatever form is probably dreaming, but keep in mind CHCH as a whole did have a over capacity in business floor space.

There is next to no chance they will move the CBD imho, although sure no one is officially ruling it out.

Keep in mind around 50% ish of the buildings in the CBD are largely fine, there is lessons to learn in construction to offset the soft ground.

Lastly this type of ground is hardly unique to CHCH, "parts" of Wellington, California and many others all has similar ground.

Agree on the over supply of "floor space", add to that those who will/are re-locating elsewhere.

50% are fine, but, what a good opportunity to make a green area in the CBD as a memorial to those who lost their lives there.

Ground types here are very prone to liquefaction and sink holes, 2 people were sucked into them and lucky to be pulled out by neighbours, 1 in Bexley and the other in Avondale.

Lurking.

Battleneter2
29-03-2011, 12:29 PM
Agree on the over supply of "floor space", add to that those who will/are re-locating elsewhere.

50% are fine, but, what a good opportunity to make a green area in the CBD as a memorial to those who lost their lives there.

Ground types here are very prone to liquefaction and sink holes, 2 people were sucked into them and lucky to be pulled out by neighbours, 1 in Bexley and the other in Avondale.

Lurking.

I agree parts of certain eastern suburbs need to be retired, just far too costly/difficult to remediate the land esp just for residential housing.

I think there is great opportunity to develop the CBD in a coherent way. Lots of land now for large scale projects and a memorial with more greenery in general. Just hope rows of small concrete bland looking buildings dont spring up to replace the ones lost down the likes of Manchester ST. May require central government legislating to force small land owners to sell for a fair price for larger projects etc.

robbyp
29-03-2011, 01:21 PM
Just shows the problem NZ has with too much expensive regulation, and being such a nanny state, that we simply can't afford it. It is one of the reasons why NZ house prices and the cost of building is one of the highest in the world, especially compared to our wages.

robbyp
29-03-2011, 01:37 PM
Christchurchs CBD was too big and spread out anyway I think, and it lacked a shopping area right in the centre of town, and many of the buildings that collapsed should have been pulled down years ago or retrofitted, as they weren't up to EQ standards. At least now they have the chance to do some real urban design work. I think the actual building work should be spread out, and as their is a likely hood that there will be some major aftershocks over the next 12 months there is probably no rush for that. Where there is a rush is getting roads and all services fixed.

Lurking
29-03-2011, 01:42 PM
I agree parts of certain eastern suburbs need to be retired, just far too costly/difficult to remediate the land esp just for residential housing.

I think there is great opportunity to develop the CBD in a coherent way. Lots of land now for large scale projects and a memorial with more greenery in general. Just hope rows of small concrete bland looking buildings dont spring up to replace the ones lost down the likes of Manchester ST. May require central government legislating to force small land owners to sell for a fair price for larger projects etc.

The remediation has now gone by the board, far too expensive, the underground dam formations they envisaged, would have been blown up out of the ground with the 6.3 type of quake.

Agree with your second viewpoint, wooden structures which would give much better than concrete or brick would be a good idea.

Lurking.

Lurking
29-03-2011, 01:52 PM
Just shows the problem NZ has with too much expensive regulation, and being such a nanny state, that we simply can't afford it. It is one of the reasons why NZ house prices and the cost of building is one of the highest in the world, especially compared to our wages.

Agree with the over abundance of bureaucracy, Environment Court over ruling ECAN in the case of the Bexley fiasco.

House prices were following the pattern of the share market of the 1980's and the Mums' and Dads' chasing the high interest returns of recent years.

Mind you you could blame the Clinton Democrat Government in having the banks give 110% housing loans to the under privileged.

Lurking.

Battleneter2
29-03-2011, 02:47 PM
Agree with your second viewpoint, wooden structures which would give much better than concrete or brick would be a good idea.

Lurking.

na sorry what I was really getting at with the comment about small concrete shops, building a more substantial mall type (tasteful) retail areas that people will want to visit with a eye on parking and business affordability etc.

The small retail shops in the CDB have been doing it hard against the suburban malls. Having a vibrant city center is important for a number of reason esp tourism. CHCH amongst all the problems has a unique opportunity to address retail in the central city.

B.M.
29-03-2011, 03:02 PM
Overall a massive job considering Japans task and resources vs NZ, NZ has the much bigger job.

:lol::lol: Where do I insert a Tui Billboard? :lol:

johcar
29-03-2011, 04:07 PM
The best re-plan for Christchurch would be decentralisation (no huge CBD) and some decent broadband (fibre or 4G) so people could work from home.

Resource management in place so that small businesses/light industry could operate in the suburbs - with appropriate controls for noise and smell.

Small clusters of shops (NOT malls) with coffee shops - or similar - supplying 'conference centre' style rooms so that remote workers could meet in person every now and then.

And lots of green space - I'm sure there are plenty of areas that are suited to growing grass and trees that up until recently have had concrete monstrosities on them.

These days many businesses have no pressing need to be in a CBD situation, with all the rent/lease, parking and traffic hassles that can bring...

This scenario has a much lighter (although also much broader) footprint from an infrastructure point of view and doesn't put all the infrastructure eggs in one basket

gary67
29-03-2011, 04:52 PM
Well since rebuilding Christchurch is going to take more farmland they should rezone the liquifacted areas and turn all that unusable for building land back into farmland, carrots and other root crops love sandy soil

B.M.
29-03-2011, 05:08 PM
Well I think we should call for submissions on the matter. :rolleyes:

These submissions could be heard by a committee along the style of say the “Waitangi Tribunal”, over the next ten years or so. :thumbs:

One shouldn’t be rushed into making any decisions you know and “Safety is Paramount” I believe. ;)

Meanwhile, Japan and Australia will have dealt with their disasters (and probably a couple of others as well) and “Normal Transmission” will have been restored there.

Honestly, we are “World Champions at Procrastination and Incompetence”, and our ancestors will be spinning in their graves.

Our once great country has been reduced to nothing but a bunch of “Politically Correct Handwringers”. :mad:

It’s bloody embarrassing!

Lurking
29-03-2011, 05:19 PM
Well since rebuilding Christchurch is going to take more farmland they should rezone the liquifacted areas and turn all that unusable for building land back into farmland, carrots and other root crops love sandy soil

Well said, and they could pipe the sewage straight onto the land, like the Chinese do/did. Raw sewage is going into Pegasus Bay at 4 locations at present.

Go past one pumping station on New Brighton Road that's doing that and to prevent any overflow, the banks of the Avon have been sand bagged.

The 2 extinct volcanoes near Christchurch could be awakening, as the Port Hills rose quite some feet.

Lurking.