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AZ1
07-02-2011, 09:27 PM
Hey
I was just interested in how people (big software devolopers) create so professional programs? Thanks

Chilling_Silence
07-02-2011, 09:40 PM
Depends on the language they're writing them in, the target audience, the application type ....

SP8's
07-02-2011, 09:54 PM
Millions of $$$$ put into R & D then sell the programs for Billions of $$$$ ... start all over again ... just ask Bill ...:D

bot
07-02-2011, 10:01 PM
Another factor is time. It took a long time to make office 2010, yet it looks as slick as oil. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day...

SP8's
07-02-2011, 10:56 PM
Another factor is time. It took a long time to make office 2010, yet it looks as slick as oil. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day...

2010 is nice to use ... but it's been in development since Office was first introduced .. 2000 ... 2003 ... 2007 ... 2010 ... 2013 ?? That's where the R&D comes in with the $M and sale of $B to keep the cycle going ... just like to OS's

gary67
08-02-2011, 07:47 AM
And usually developed by a team not a single code writer working alone in some dingy dungeon like you see in the movies

pctek
08-02-2011, 08:06 AM
It took a long time to make office 2010.

Did it?
They copied Lotus, then tweaked it ever since. They don't rewrite from scratch every time there's a new version.

Yorick
13-02-2011, 10:31 AM
There are in fact two basic models. Open Source and closed source or proprietary. Closed source generally tends to focus on the "market". So focus is on the visual, the eye candy in other words, often to the detriment of the hidden items such as security and stabilty.

The Market driven closed source has to keep the internal details secret and protected no matter what, this includes suing customers for huge amounts of money if they break onerous and indecypherable licences. So closed source is most often aimed at the consumer end of the market, the non-professional market where huge marketing budgets will give payback

The Open Source model by contrast shares the source code so that nothing is secret which means that anyone with the necessary skills can contribute to a piece of software. This has the advantage that the "hidden" stuff get's more attention because the perception of quality has nothing to with "eye candy" and more to do with good code. The downside of this is, especially when a piece of software is new, User Experience and Eyecandy, which is what sells in a consumer market, takes a lower step on the priority ladder to the developer.

Eric Raymond in his seminal essay "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/) used the phrase "scratching an itch" to define why developers create OpenSource software.

It could be said that in the closed source model the developer is paid to scratch someone elses itch whereas in the OpenSource model he scratches an itch of his own. If that itch involves eyecandy, then you will get great eyecandy but other than that it is rarely a consideration.

Of course in the real world there are shades of grey, Computing heavyweights such as IBM, Oracle, Novell and so on operate a mix of both so there are people who get paid to code open source and the big closed source companies like MS, Apple and Adobe have small OpenSource projects and have development platforms that independent hackers can and do use. It is huge business, I made the point in one of my presentations: "Bill Gates became a billionaire by helping a lot of people become millionaires." So motivations vary.

The point of this is: If you define a "Professional Programme" as that software used by professionals, and given that the internet is run by professionals rather than people at the consumer end of the scale. And the vast majority of the internet, (which is run on open standards) is run on Open Source (Linux, Apache, etc) then you would have to say that professional programmes are created on mailling lists by volunteers hacking away in their basement in the hope of creating piece of code that impresses the hell out of people like Linus Torvalds (or at least doesn't cause you to get flamed by the same :) ). In OpenSource it doesn't matter if you're getting paid to hack on a particular patch by the IBMs or the Oracles, it doesn't give you more gravitas when it comes to putting it into the core than a guy hacking away in a darkened basement, it's all about the quality.

Chilling_Silence
13-02-2011, 11:52 AM
Not a bad post there mate! :-)

:pf1mobmini:

Yorick
14-02-2011, 12:22 PM
One tries and on the very rare occasion, one succeeds without getting flamed! :D

Chilling_Silence
14-02-2011, 01:48 PM
Haven't seen you around much lately. Welcome back :)

AZ1
14-02-2011, 06:15 PM
Anyway apart from Visual Studio, what a other visual programming languages?

Cato
14-02-2011, 06:20 PM
Anyway apart from Visual Studio, what a other visual programming languages?

Go Mono :)

Erayd
14-02-2011, 06:42 PM
Anyway apart from Visual Studio, what a other visual programming languages?Visual Studio is not a programming language, it's an IDE.

Might I kindly suggest that you review some of your rather (http://www.pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=108788) ubiquitous (http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=111158) earlier (http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=113102) threads (http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=111651) on the subject rather than asking the same questions again and again?

Yorick
14-02-2011, 11:37 PM
Aaah what he wants is a wysiwyg IDE. Yeesh, I spent at least 15 mins on that reply that I'll never get back! :(

Snorkbox
14-02-2011, 11:42 PM
Possibly you may not have been flamed earlier had you not been pushing a certain piece of very good open source software.

I also agree that you make a very good case for open source and you didn't waste 15 minutes from that point of view.

Yorick
15-02-2011, 02:28 AM
Oh good grief, that wasn't flaming, that was simply a civilised difference of opinion! :) No raised voices or ad hominem attacks detected. I'm old school, UseNet Flaming, that was the real stuff. When a n00b arriving on the list or the BBS invoked a sort of feeding frenzy that would sent shivers up the collective spine of a vampires nest. </nostalgia>

Erayd
15-02-2011, 07:16 AM
Aaah what he wants is a wysiwyg IDE. Yeesh, I spent at least 15 mins on that reply that I'll never get back! :(Well worth it though in my opinion - might not be terribly useful to AZ1, but I suspect that a few others here may have found it useful :thumbs:.

Chilling_Silence
15-02-2011, 08:14 AM
Yes, absolutely! :)

Lets sticky it!! :D

No seriously though, it was worth the read IMO.

GameJunkie
15-02-2011, 08:40 AM
Visual Studio is not a programming language, it's an IDE.

Might I kindly suggest that you review some of your rather (http://www.pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=108788) ubiquitous (http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=111158) earlier (http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=113102) threads (http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=111651) on the subject rather than asking the same questions again and again?

i like how each blue word is a link to another thread asking the same questions :D

bk T
15-02-2011, 09:18 AM
Did it?
They copied Lotus, then tweaked it ever since. They don't rewrite from scratch every time there's a new version.

I'm with you. They copied from here and there, tweak it, ...

Agent_24
16-02-2011, 12:31 AM
Hey
I was just interested in how people (big software devolopers) create so professional programs? Thanks

For companies like Microsoft as the others said: A lot of money, a lot of time and a lot of people.

That's not to say you can't make a nice program yourself - you just need to know what you're doing. (Take GB-PVR for example)

But of course, if you wanted to create something as complex by yourself you'd have a lot of work to do...