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Snorkbox
25-01-2011, 06:41 PM
http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/tell-us-where-money039s-coming-mr-goff/5/79540

This from a Govt that currently borrows 250 Million per week!!

johcar
25-01-2011, 07:36 PM
Yeah, but Goff is clueless and desperate for some attention, so he talks about giving money away without any indication of how he would fund it.

Empty words from a powerless wimp.

SolMiester
25-01-2011, 07:54 PM
LOL, Nats tax cuts were fiscally neutral, Goff just wants to tax those that make more money.....so the high rate will go to 47% for 100K+...Say goodbye to the brains of NZ...We will have no Doctors left..

The Nat borrowing in to fix the **** hole Cullen left us.....I knew Labour supporters were peasants but I didnt think they were that stupid....

somebody
25-01-2011, 08:10 PM
http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/tell-us-where-money039s-coming-mr-goff/5/79540

This from a Govt that currently borrows 250 Million per week!!

And with a Labour govt, we'll be borrowing $500m a week to encourage people not to work.

The $5000 tax free income bracket policy is something the previous Labour govt should have introduced back when we had the big surpluses, instead of the "Working For Families" money-go-round scheme they put in place. It would have had a much bigger impact, been "fairer" - and most importantly, been affordable.

Snorkbox
25-01-2011, 08:15 PM
And the Nats want to fudge the figures when it comes to inflation by not including the rise in GST they introduced!

BTW I did not vote Nat or Labour in the last election and I won't vote for either in the next for that matter.

Erayd
25-01-2011, 08:32 PM
And the Nats want to fudge the figures when it comes to inflation by not including the rise in GST they introduced!As they should - inflation measures the purchasing power of a currency; the GST rate has nothing to do with it, and there's no reason to include it in inflation calculations.

It's not fudging the figures, it's how inflation should actually be calculated.

gary67
26-01-2011, 07:10 AM
Unfortunately I can see dictator Key getting back in because the alternative is too weak unless of course Winston makes a comeback

Metla
26-01-2011, 09:25 AM
I'd say its retarded to suggest that the fix for the problem is more of the same crap policies that caused the problem in the first place.

Labour merely redistributed the countries wealth rather then growing it, resulting in lower living standards for everyone rather then raising living standards.

Shameful.

DeSade
26-01-2011, 09:34 AM
I feel betrayed by Key so far with all this Maori pandering he promised to do away with.
Couple that with the incredibly slow roll out of the fibre network and he is going to have to pull something out of his ass to get my vote again.

Labour is no better leaving very little choice.

Snorkbox
26-01-2011, 09:47 AM
Winnie may well come back. ( Hint )

johcar
26-01-2011, 10:17 AM
I'd say its retarded to suggest that the fix for the problem is more of the same crap policies that caused the problem in the first place.

Labour merely redistributed the countries wealth rather then growing it, resulting in lower living standards for everyone rather then raising living standards.

Shameful.

But that's what lefties are all about - you shouldn't be surprised. They're just not very good at maths....

Snorkbox
26-01-2011, 10:24 AM
I'd say its retarded to suggest that the fix for the problem is more of the same crap policies that caused the problem in the first place.

Labour merely redistributed the countries wealth rather then growing it, resulting in lower living standards for everyone rather then raising living standards.

Shameful.

And where are the jobs that Key promised with the job summit and all. All very well asking people to work but where are the jobs and don't tell me the cycle way has produced very many.

gary67
26-01-2011, 10:45 AM
Key has done jack s^&t for jobs. At the end of the day the only winners are politicians we are just the fools who believe their lies and spin.

Oh and he's going to sell some SOE's too story here (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4582922/Key-reveals-plan-for-asset-sales)

Chilling_Silence
26-01-2011, 10:51 AM
You know what I'd love to see? A table.

Column one can have the party promises, column two can be a tick / cross.
Have at the top, the promises the Labour party made, and kept
Then beneath it do likewise for National in the past few years

Then, for the hell of it, have another chart and call it "Dumb stupid policies that got in which shouldn't have been implemented" and do likewise.

Would certainly be interesting to see, I've honestly got no idea which way it'd swing. Does anybody have some spare time on their hands? :D

Cicero
26-01-2011, 10:52 AM
And the Nats want to fudge the figures when it comes to inflation by not including the rise in GST they introduced!

BTW I did not vote Nat or Labour in the last election and I won't vote for either in the next for that matter.

So no complaints from you then!

DeSade
26-01-2011, 11:04 AM
You know what I'd love to see? A table.

Column one can have the party promises, column two can be a tick / cross.
Have at the top, the promises the Labour party made, and kept
Then beneath it do likewise for National in the past few years

Then, for the hell of it, have another chart and call it "Dumb stupid policies that got in which shouldn't have been implemented" and do likewise.

Would certainly be interesting to see, I've honestly got no idea which way it'd swing. Does anybody have some spare time on their hands? :D

I think you just volunteered ;)

Gobe1
26-01-2011, 11:15 AM
As they should - inflation measures the purchasing power of a currency; the GST rate has nothing to do with it, and there's no reason to include it in inflation calculations.

It's not fudging the figures, it's how inflation should actually be calculated.

No. it should be included. No surprise it has jumped because most put prices up beyond the GST hike. Blatantly obvious

Gobe1
26-01-2011, 11:16 AM
I feel betrayed by Key so far with all this Maori pandering he promised to do away with.


Agreed, they should hold a snap election now and lead on their own.

Bobh
26-01-2011, 11:28 AM
Unfortunately I can see dictator Key getting back in because the alternative is too weak unless of course Winston makes a comeback

Yes we need a party like New Zealand First to keep the two major parties in line.

Happy Harry
26-01-2011, 12:03 PM
Yes we need a party like New Zealand First to keep the two major parties in line.

New Zealand First?? I always thought that the Party was "Winston First"
The party was set up to pander to his ego I think.
An entertaining and harmless fellow, extremley politically savvy and great at following the current popularist movement.
Wasn't he the Minister of Winstons Development ;)

HH

Metla
26-01-2011, 12:55 PM
But that's what lefties are all about - you shouldn't be surprised. They're just not very good at maths....

I'm not, It just does my swede in that people think this is a viable plan, that this madness should be supported, and feel the need to point out how stupid the plan is.

The country needs to be run like a business, sure you can allocate some of the funds to charity but when you allocate so much that the bussiness can't suport it then bankruptcy is on the horizon.

Metla
26-01-2011, 12:59 PM
Unfortunately I can see dictator Key getting back in because the alternative is too weak unless of course Winston makes a comeback

Dictator?

If anything My Key looks weak as a leader as he has had to pander to the likes of the brown-skin party, Though in truth I believe he has played the game with great skill, The man is very clever.

What we need to do is ditch MMP so we can have the strong leadership required in situations like this, which in case no one has noticed is a global recession.

Winston?

comeback?

Comeback as what?

a useless twat?

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could kick him.

Chilling_Silence
26-01-2011, 01:15 PM
Metla for PM! :D

Gobe1
26-01-2011, 01:17 PM
The country needs to be run like a business.

100% Metla. if a business is running in the black why get rid of it.....If it is in the red find out why.

Erayd
26-01-2011, 01:58 PM
No. it should be included. No surprise it has jumped because most put prices up beyond the GST hike. Blatantly obviousWhy should GST be included in an inflation calculation? It has nothing to do with the purchasing power of the currency in question (which is after all exactly what inflation measures) - GST is a tax that is levied on top of whatever the goods happen to cost.

Obviously price rises beyond GST should be part of the calculation, but I can't see any reason why the 2.5% GST rise should be included, unless I'm missing something. This may be 'blatantly obvious' to you, but I just can't see the logic here - can you expand on this a bit?

Gobe1
26-01-2011, 02:08 PM
Actually i understand better now, thanks Eryad. I take that back.

1101
26-01-2011, 03:27 PM
Why should GST be included in an inflation calculation? It has nothing to do with the purchasing power of the currency in question

Off course it does. I now have less purchasing power per dollar, I thought that was obvious.
my widgets have increased in price from $1.125 to $1.15 each.

Chilling_Silence
26-01-2011, 04:27 PM
Yes but you're also being taxed less per-dollar, but that has nothing to do with inflation.
If you were to go from earning $35K to $60K a year, inflation is still the same even though you're in a different tax bracket. Tax doesn't affect (AFAIK) inflation.

pctek
26-01-2011, 04:38 PM
The country needs to be run like a business.

What sort of business? Investment company business?

CEO gets the mansion and the sports cars and the workers get minimum wage until it all goes pear shaped?

I think it should be like your household. If money in doesn't equal money out, well all the shuffling around in the world won't help. You need to change jobs or add jobs or whatever to the household.
Yes you can reduce spending but only to a point.

We need to do something other than selling milk and animals.

I liked the $5000 tax free thing. I don't however think it's a cure for anything and unless he gets it back elsewhere it just does the same **** MPs always do: Make it look good for the masses to get themselves voted in.

John Key/ Bill English aren't any better, especially BE, not one of them look at the real problem.

Sell the assets, bit like selling off my furniture, it's a temp fix, not long term.

gary67
26-01-2011, 05:20 PM
What sort of business? Investment company business?

CEO gets the mansion and the sports cars and the workers get minimum wage until it all goes pear shaped?

I think it should be like your household. If money in doesn't equal money out, well all the shuffling around in the world won't help. You need to change jobs or add jobs or whatever to the household.
Yes you can reduce spending but only to a point.

We need to do something other than selling milk and animals.

I liked the $5000 tax free thing. I don't however think it's a cure for anything and unless he gets it back elsewhere it just does the same **** MPs always do: Make it look good for the masses to get themselves voted in.

John Key/ Bill English aren't any better, especially BE, not one of them look at the real problem.

Sell the assets, bit like selling off my furniture, it's a temp fix, not long term.

Finally someone else that makes sense and says what i have been intimating but couldn't quite get right. PCTek for PM

Cicero
26-01-2011, 05:30 PM
Yes but you're also being taxed less per-dollar, but that has nothing to do with inflation.
If you were to go from earning $35K to $60K a year, inflation is still the same even though you're in a different tax bracket. Tax doesn't affect (AFAIK) inflation.

So, if you put up GST by say 100%, everything goes up 100% and that isn't inflation, then what is it?

Metla
26-01-2011, 06:03 PM
What sort of business? Investment company business?



Funny enough that is how labour ran it under their term(s)

Erayd
26-01-2011, 07:02 PM
Off course it does. I now have less purchasing power per dollar, I thought that was obvious.
my widgets have increased in price from $1.125 to $1.15 each.Nope - your widgets are still more or less the same price, but the tax on those widgets has increased.

Let's say that before the change, $10 would buy 10 widgets. You then paid an additional $1.25 GST, for a total debt to you of $11.25.

The important thing to remember here is that the extra $1.25 isn't part of the cost of your widget; it's an extra levy, and only appears on the price sticker because NZ trading law requires it.

Now let's look at after the rise in GST. $10 still buys 10 widgets, but now you pay an additional $1.50 in GST instead of the $1.25 you were paying before, thus bringing the total debt to you up to $11.50.

That $1.50 still isn't part of the widget cost!

It might also be worth noting that only end consumers pay GST - businesses don't, and can claim this back on their tax return.

SolMiester
26-01-2011, 07:05 PM
What sort of business? Investment company business?

CEO gets the mansion and the sports cars and the workers get minimum wage until it all goes pear shaped?

I think it should be like your household. If money in doesn't equal money out, well all the shuffling around in the world won't help. You need to change jobs or add jobs or whatever to the household.
Yes you can reduce spending but only to a point.

We need to do something other than selling milk and animals.

I liked the $5000 tax free thing. I don't however think it's a cure for anything and unless he gets it back elsewhere it just does the same **** MPs always do: Make it look good for the masses to get themselves voted in.

John Key/ Bill English aren't any better, especially BE, not one of them look at the real problem.

Sell the assets, bit like selling off my furniture, it's a temp fix, not long term.

LOL, if the workers had the brains they could have their own business, why shouldnt the bosses get the cream, its their business!

So what is the problem according to PCT, you believe you have a better idea of the countries position than BE?, this will be good!

As for asset sales, selling the furniture to your children is like what they are suggesting, NZ citizens owing rather than the govt!

pctek
27-01-2011, 06:31 AM
As for asset sales, selling the furniture to your children is like what they are suggesting, NZ citizens owing rather than the govt!

Silly, who do you think owns it now it's in Govt hands? We do. Us taxpayers. We already own it.

John Keys Mum for PM. She was the one who knew how to budget.

SolMiester
27-01-2011, 09:14 AM
Silly, who do you think owns it now it's in Govt hands? We do. Us taxpayers. We already own it.

John Keys Mum for PM. She was the one who knew how to budget.

Taxpayers are not shareholders, and have no say in the business....I dont agree with JK mums for budgeting experience though.....

I happen to think as much as I dislike BE, he is so far ahead of the game than anything Labour has its a no brainer...

Snorkbox
27-01-2011, 10:37 AM
Taxpayers are not shareholders, and have no say in the business....I dont agree with JK mums for budgeting experience though.....

I happen to think as much as I dislike BE, he is so far ahead of the game than anything Labour has its a no brainer...

We don't get the right to run the business on a day to day basis.

We do get the right, every three years, to have a say in who runs it for us except for list MPs however.

Gobe1
28-01-2011, 08:58 AM
So, if you put up GST by say 100%, everything goes up 100% and that isn't inflation, then what is it?

If you put up gst 100% it will go to 30%;)

Plus if you dont like it dont vote for them is rubbish, your vote is only 1 of millions
Dont vote for National or Labour, who else is there??? And if you dont vote everyone will say you had your chance...(There is a Bart Simpson quote to insert here)

Cicero
28-01-2011, 09:43 AM
If you put up gst 100% it will go to 30%;)

Plus if you dont like it dont vote for them is rubbish, your vote is only 1 of millions
Dont vote for National or Labour, who else is there??? And if you dont vote everyone will say you had your chance...(There is a Bart Simpson quote to insert here)

If an item is $50 and the gst is 100% then the item costs $100, how is that 30%?

johcar
28-01-2011, 09:52 AM
A 100% increase of the current rate = 30%

Gobe1
28-01-2011, 10:15 AM
A 100% increase of the current rate = 30%

Its all the way you write the word

johcar
28-01-2011, 10:16 AM
Its all the way you write the word

Or how much you want to deliberately misunderstand, to make a point... :p

Cicero
28-01-2011, 10:33 AM
Or how much you want to deliberately misunderstand, to make a point... :p

Be nice if my point was understood.

Is GST inflationary?, the other is called digression.

Erayd
28-01-2011, 10:47 AM
Is GST inflationary?No, because it doesn't affect the base cost of an item, and it doesn't decrease the value of a dollar.

Inflation measures the real purchasing power of a dollar, and has nothing to do with tax.

Cicero
28-01-2011, 11:40 AM
No, because it doesn't affect the base cost of an item, and it doesn't decrease the value of a dollar.

Inflation measures the real purchasing power of a dollar, and has nothing to do with tax.

The real purchasing power is dimished due to tax, therfore it is inflationary.

It doesen't affect the value of $ you say, try buying something with tax then something without, see if it affects your purchasing power.

Erayd
28-01-2011, 12:34 PM
The real purchasing power is dimished due to tax, therfore it is inflationary.How? The real power must be sans taxes, otherwise we'd have a different inflation figure for every person in the country. Inflation is a single aggregate statistic. The consumer cost is increased, but that doesn't mean your dollar is worth less in other areas - but inflation does mean this. GST doesn't affect the exchange rate for example.


It doesen't affect the value of $ you say, try buying something with tax then something without, see if it affects your purchasing power.That's exactly my point - GST is not universal, has nothing to do with the base price of your widget, and doesn't alter the value of a dollar. There can be secondary effects that may ultimately affect the level of inflation, but why should GST be taken into account directly?

GST may affect how many widgets you can afford, because you're paying an extra levy on those widgets, but it doesn't affect the base cost of those widgets. If you included it in the inflation calculation, how then would you take into account businesses, exporters, changes in the reserve bank's interest rate, changes in income tax, etc?

I could of course be entirely wrong, but I simply don't understand why it should be included - it makes no logical sense to me.

Lurking
28-01-2011, 03:51 PM
Always thought this was inflation:

http://www.glgroup.com/News/Milton-Freidman-said--Too-Much-Money-chasing-too-Few-Goods--25952.html

Lurking.

Cicero
28-01-2011, 04:34 PM
Spent a bit of time reading opinions, I thought this was salient.....

It is seen that the net price effect of GST would be nil if the GST is an equal-yield tax. There would not be any effect on the overall price change although there may be changes in relative prices.

The tax being revenue neutral, the aggregate demand is unchanged and so there would be no impact on the aggregate price level.

What it seems to be saying is, offset the increase in price with a reduction in other types of tax and that will nullify any increase due to increased GST.