PDA

View Full Version : NZ Mine Explosion



SurferJoe46
20-11-2010, 05:57 AM
I hope no-one here is involved in this situation.

We are watching the news about it here in the States.

Trev
20-11-2010, 06:30 AM
More here (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10688871) SJ.
No I don't know anyone involved.
:(

Paul.Cov
20-11-2010, 07:32 AM
Still no contact from 24... 12 hours later.
Rescuers are sitting on their hands coz of fears of more gas.

paulw
20-11-2010, 01:33 PM
Actually 29 as at lunchtime. Still no word..

Battleneter2
20-11-2010, 01:38 PM
2010 really has been a bad luck year for NZ, its kinda getting old, hope they are ok.

SurferJoe46
20-11-2010, 05:31 PM
I'm shocked that they don't go in. Aren't there any air suits they can wear (oxygen is dangerous and most paramedics and firemen carry compressed air here) so they can safely enter then mine?

Is it the danger of an explosion or just fear for asphyxiation to the rescuers?

Something smells fishy here.

What do youse guys get from the rumor mills?

Marnie
20-11-2010, 05:47 PM
If only it was as simple as that, Joe.

Basically, it's the fear of poisonous/combustible gases. They are able to pump air into the mine and it is hoped the miners would have been able to reach a safety refuge. Forget it being 'fishy', everything that can be done, will be done to reach them.

I am a "West Coaster" by birth and I know just how the entire region will be suffering.

Digby
20-11-2010, 06:13 PM
Yes I am sure some guys would volunteer to go for at least a look wearing breathing apparatus !

If they don't go in soon, they may die from lack of air ?

And I don't like the polcie chief who keeps saying we will get the "guys" out.

They are not "guys" in this case, they are men or miners.

Marnie
20-11-2010, 06:23 PM
No amount of 'protective gear' or breathing apparatus would save them if another explosion was triggered.

Yes, am sure you are right, Digby, some would volunteer to go in, if they were allowed. I agree with you about the use of 'guys', it irks me as well, but then that seems to be the way our language and respect has been lowered to the extent that some people take it as being normal.

Zippity
20-11-2010, 06:36 PM
So if the cop was a rugby player and had referred to the miners as "the boys" instead, it would have been OK??

KarameaDave
20-11-2010, 06:40 PM
Let's just concentrate on facts, if the gases preclude the safe
deployment of the rescuers, then that is a decision for the Search and Rescue coordinator...not Digby or anyone else. Losing more men is not the outcome anyone wants. Calling them guys is no more disrespectful than any other way of referring to them in my opinion.

B.M.
20-11-2010, 06:58 PM
Nothing like having a West Coast Cop in charge, whose speciality is probably trying to get the pub's to shut at 10pm. :rolleyes:

Ch..st, having to fly air samples to a laboratory by Helicopter for testing beats me.

Never mind, OSH will require special coloured Fluro Vests before the rescue can commence, then I guess there in Resource Consent to be heard, complete with objections.

Poor buggers have no chance, if indeed they ever did. :mad:

I’m afraid we in NZ are World Champs when it comes to Procrastination! :blush:

Metla
20-11-2010, 07:07 PM
Nothing like having a West Coast Cop in charge, whose speciality is probably trying to get the pub's to shut at 10pm. :rolleyes:

Ch..st, having to fly air samples to a laboratory by Helicopter for testing beats me.

Never mind, OSH will require special coloured Fluro Vests before the rescue can commence, then I guess there in Resource Consent to be heard, complete with objections.

Poor buggers have no chance, if indeed they ever did. :mad:

I’m afraid we in NZ are World Champs when it comes to Procrastination! :blush:

First rule of emergency rescue from a confined space, do not send anymore into die.

Therefore the first order of business to find out whats in that tunnel, Granted everyone is an internet expert, and internet experts can ignore what real world actions have shown us over and over and over again.

What the worst that could happen?...well, sending in the rescue party to die would be the worst,And then the internet experts would be frothing at the mouth.

SurferJoe46
20-11-2010, 07:15 PM
I wonder if they even have any canaries?

Air samples? Lab tests?

Nuts!

Every US sailor was issued a device to test for explosive verses non-explosive gases every day in the ship.

( MSA 2A Explosimeter Combustible Gas Indicator )

Surely there's a US Military Army/Navy Surplus Store where they can get one to see if it's safe to enter or not?

I think I brought mine home from the last ship I was on. I can send it to youse guys and I'm sure it'll beat the lab test back to the mine so the rescue can begin.

Paul.Cov
20-11-2010, 07:23 PM
Most recent news reports that the system supplying air to the mine is not developing the same pressure compared to before the blast - suggesting that the air supply has been broken at some point, with the air now escaping - possibly without any of it getting to the other side of the collapsed area (assuming there is a collapsed area)

Another photo claimed to show another air supply vent with its cover blown off.

The two guys who got out via a vent are alleged to have said three others were making their way topside... since they haven't shown up it leaves you wondering about the air.

Speculation: They reckon an electricity fault may have compromised the air supply system PRIOR to the blast (probably explains why the blast happened... build up of gases thanks to reduced ventilation) Just gotta hope there's no fire being fed by whatever ventilation remains. I've hear no report of smoke.

It seems the electrician sent down to investigate the fault arrived AFTER the blast, and it was the electrician that raised the alert - so the original blast went either undetected, or unreported by those on the surface.

SurferJoe46
20-11-2010, 07:25 PM
Maybe it's just dark inside.

B.M.
20-11-2010, 07:35 PM
First rule of emergency rescue from a confined space, do not send anymore into die.

Therefore the first order of business to find out whats in that tunnel, Granted everyone is an internet expert, and internet experts can ignore what real world actions have shown us over and over and over again.

What the worst that could happen?...well, sending in the rescue party to die would be the worst,And then the internet experts would be frothing at the mouth.

The guys that know the real risks, are the Miners in the Rescue Teams. ;)

No amount of academic BS will replace their knowledge.

They know the risks and if they want to go, all power to them.

As I understand it, they aren’t conscripted, they volunteered for the job and are fully trained.

Sitting around whilst some lily livered paper shuffler make a decision is not an option in my book.

This PC bullsh-t of “Safety is Paramount” is just a cop-out for those non-decision makers.

In the morning when it’s necessary to pop down the road and get some milk I’m going to say, ohhhhh no, “Safety is Paramount” and go back to bed. :rolleyes:

Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Zippity
20-11-2010, 07:37 PM
B.M. - you are talking (passing wind) out of the wrong orifice :(

Metla
20-11-2010, 07:40 PM
The guys that know the real risks, are the Miners in the Rescue Teams. ;)

No amount of academic BS will replace their knowledge.

They know the risks and if they want to go, all power to them.

As I understand it, they aren’t conscripted, they volunteered for the job and are fully trained.

Sitting around whilst some lily livered paper shuffler make a decision is not an option in my book.

This PC bullsh-t of “Safety is Paramount” is just a cop-out for those non-decision makers.

In the morning when it’s necessary to pop down the road and get some milk I’m going to say, ohhhhh no, “Safety is Paramount” and go back to bed. :rolleyes:

Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Since you know so much, whose the lily livered paper shuffler making the decision, and what's his background?

Whats the bet his experience and capabilities are extensive, and yours are non-existent.

You do yourself no favour spurting ignorant twaddle, But hey, that's the beauty of the internet.

Make no mistake the entire procedure will be reviewed after the event, and while its a given that in such a situation mistakes will be made, alas, they won't be calling on the likes of you to put in your 3 cents. I suppose its easier to condemn those trying to save lives then it is for those people to condemn the lives of others.

The real world has real world consequences, Unlike the internet and the keyboard hero.

Winston001
20-11-2010, 07:41 PM
First rule of emergency rescue from a confined space, do not send anymore into die.

Therefore the first order of business to find out whats in that tunnel, Granted everyone is an internet expert, and internet experts can ignore what real world actions have shown us over and over and over again.

What the worst that could happen?...well, sending in the rescue party to die would be the worst,And then the internet experts would be frothing at the mouth.

Thanks for that, I've just asked about this on KB.

I can understand the risks of methane gas but mining has come a long way in the past 50 years and is far safer than it used to be. Wouldn't there be specialised rescue equipment nearby enabling people in breathing gear to quickly enter?

Apparently this is a straightish tunnel, not a deep shaft, plus there is a ventilation/escape shaft to the top of the hill. Its the top of that shaft which is shown in photos, with blackened equipment from the explosion.

I'm finding this very distressing to think about. Just hope these men are safe.

paulw
20-11-2010, 07:47 PM
First rule of emergency rescue from a confined space, do not send anymore into die.

Therefore the first order of business to find out whats in that tunnel, Granted everyone is an internet expert, and internet experts can ignore what real world actions have shown us over and over and over again.

What the worst that could happen?...well, sending in the rescue party to die would be the worst,And then the internet experts would be frothing at the mouth.

This smells like the police over cautious response to that store robbery and shooting in South Auckland a couple of years ago where cops would not let the medics in until they were 100% sure that the robbers had gone which to everyone else on the scene was pretty obvious . Buy the time they let the medics in ( about 30 minutes) the store owner was past it. Imagine if a fire chief would let his crew into a building until he was sure there fire was out..

Metla
20-11-2010, 07:55 PM
Thanks for that, I've just asked about this on KB.

I can understand the risks of methane gas but mining has come a long way in the past 50 years and is far safer than it used to be. Wouldn't there be specialised rescue equipment nearby enabling people in breathing gear to quickly enter?

Apparently this is a straightish tunnel, not a deep shaft, plus there is a ventilation/escape shaft to the top of the hill. Its the top of that shaft which is shown in photos, with blackened equipment from the explosion.

I'm finding this very distressing to think about. Just hope these men are safe.

We can only speculate, Info coming out is near nothing.

Obviously something is holding them back, They must have ascertained what sort of work is required, that something is in the atmosphere, how long it will take, what gear is required, and the capabilities/limitations of that gear.

Those involved are reported to be highly trained in the risks so I'd let them run it how they have to, Finger pointing if warrented can be done afterwards.

Human nature (rushing to the rescue) has killed many people in confined space emergencies,

Metla
20-11-2010, 07:57 PM
Imagine if a fire chief wouldn't let his crew into a building until he was sure there fire was out..

I'd imagine they would put the fire out first.....

B.M.
20-11-2010, 08:00 PM
Whats the bet his experience and capabilities are extensive, and yours are non-existent.

Well I worked on the Kaimai Tunnel and the Ruahihi Dam.

How about you?

Tell us about your expertise. :lol:

Metla
20-11-2010, 08:10 PM
Well I worked on the Kaimai Tunnel and the Ruahihi Dam.

How about you?

Tell us about your expertise. :lol:

Currently health and safety manager on projects totaling 32m, 20 years almost continuous work in high risk multiple hazard sites including confined spaces and gas plants, extensive training and experience in emergency situations and rescues.

And there is no way in hell I would want to be in charge of this situation, nor would I be in a position to judge those who are.

Its a pity you learned nothing during your stint on those projects, You would get people killed (definitely yourself) if your actions are as dumb as your words.

plod
20-11-2010, 08:20 PM
Thanks for that, I've just asked about this on KB.

I can understand the risks of methane gas but mining has come a long way in the past 50 years and is far safer than it used to be. Wouldn't there be specialised rescue equipment nearby enabling people in breathing gear to quickly enter?

Apparently this is a straightish tunnel, not a deep shaft, plus there is a ventilation/escape shaft to the top of the hill. Its the top of that shaft which is shown in photos, with blackened equipment from the explosion.

I'm finding this very distressing to think about. Just hope these men are safe.
Breathing gear is not much use while the risk of another explosion is still uncertain

legod
20-11-2010, 08:28 PM
Go Metla! :)
Seriously...not a time for squabbling.
Let's hope there's some good news to wake up to tomorrow.

Metla
20-11-2010, 08:42 PM
I'll say this.

Whomever is leading this rescue (and it will be a bunch of people weighing up the situation and deciding on how to proceed) this will be the hardest thing they have ever had to do in their lives, They won't know if the calls they make are correct until well after the event.

They will carry this with them for the rest of their lives no matter what the result. They and all those involved have my utmost respect, They want to get the people rescued just as much as the families and friends of those trapped.

Lets hope for the best possible outcome,and save the lynching for another time.

B.M.
20-11-2010, 08:43 PM
Currently health and safety manager on projects totaling 32m, 20 years almost continuous work in high risk multiple hazard sites including confined spaces and gas plants, extensive training and experience in emergency situations and rescues.

And there is no way in hell I would want to be in charge of this situation, nor would I be in a position to judge those who are.

Its a pity you learned nothing during your stint on those projects, You would get people killed (definitely yourself) if your actions are as dumb as your words.

Oh my goodness me, a Health and Safety Officer.

And here I thought you were a Computer Tech in Wanganui?

Anyway, let me show you how to get the job done the old way. :D


Note: No animals were hurt in the taking of this photo!


http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/Safty_Lesson_(Large).jpg

The pipes were down 26feet and no digger had the reach so we had to dig the digger down.

Now note: The Hard Hat, the Fluro Jacket, the Timbering and Shoring, no those are not steel capped boots, they are Tramping Boots because Tramping Boots had stitched in Tongues and didn’t leak. Ah yes, riding in a digger bucket, tsk, tsk. :blush:

And did you know that working in conditions like this we always took our shirts off. :eek:

Why, because before you get a "cave in" there is always a trickle of soil the comes first and if your dressed to kill you can’t feel it. :crying

You see, there is a difference between actually doing the job and reading the book. ;)

Metla
20-11-2010, 08:49 PM
You see, there is a difference between actually doing the job and reading the book. ;)

The idea is to read the book beforehand, That way you can learn from the mistakes of others rather then by repeating them.

There are reasons a code of practice was written for trenching, Its because of dead people. Dead people who were shown how to do it by people such as yourself.

Having said that, Its perfectly fine to over excavate the trench and locate the excavator on a lower level.

Metla
20-11-2010, 09:08 PM
Why, because before you get a "cave in" there is always a trickle of soil the comes first and if your dressed to kill you can’t feel it. :crying


This deserves special mention for its absurdity, I've worked often in trenches and excavations, and had the misfortune of having one collapse, It fell as a solid sheet from behind me, Initial impact was across the back of my shoulders and it drove me straight to the ground, Initially I thought someone had fallen on me. Luckily the amount was not enough to pin me to the ground as I would be quite dead.

Guess I missed the trickle of soil I was meant to be watching for aye? :rolleyes:

Trench collapse is one of the worse incidents that can happen and more often then not they are fatal, Putting controls in place and following safe work practices will keep you much safer then going naked and hoping to spot some tell-tale trickle of soil.

If anything this discussion has high-lighted how superior our current system is. At the very least people are now educated on the hazards and a minimum level of knowledge of the job at hand is required, and processes are in place to ensure people such as yourself can't put others in danger.

coldfront
20-11-2010, 09:14 PM
No wonder I have not bothered to read or reply to this thread until now.

The amount of Internet expspurts on rescue just really astounds me to what you think should be done based on what? Your experiance of TV shows?

Lets get something straight I am a Trained Firefighter and have a rescue experiance dating long before I joined the volly fireys, then even I do not know what should or should not be done with this incident in fact I leave the rescue planning to the real experts those with the experiance in these matters.

First rule of the safe person concept! You dont put youself at risk if the outcome is going to take your life. That means NOT charging into a dangerous situation and becoming a victim yourself.

prefect
20-11-2010, 09:32 PM
Yes it could be fatal to send in volunteers for a look but I thought that was the British way. Look after your mates even if it is is very risky and highly likely you will get killed, it never stopped brave Britishers before. Thats the way its been in the past so thats why a lot of people are wondering why its taking so long to go in. I guess its just like the feldpolizei waiting around at an armed robbery in sud auckland where the man bled to death he would be eating curry today if someone was prepared to put his ass on the line.
Maybe our safety culture now is so tight that heroics are a thing of the past.
I wonder if the NZ Army has a safety culture could they send guys down tunnels to check for and kill vietcong like they used to.

ubergeek85
20-11-2010, 09:41 PM
Just in;

Police have released the nationalities of the 29 miners tripped underground at the Pike River coal mine.
Superintendent Gary Knowles said that based on information provided by the mining company Police believe there are 24 New Zealanders, two Australians, two British citizens and one South African.

Superintendent Knowles said air samples taken late this afternoon continued to indicate that gas levels in the mine were high, and the risk to rescuers entering the mine was too great.
"Further samples will be taken in the morning, when the risks will be reassessed," he said.

"It is a very complex situation and there are numerious risks we have to consider."
"We will continue to work through the night, and constantly reassess the situation."
"Everyone here is totally focussed on getting these men out and returning them to their families," Superintendent Knowles said.

Police continue to receive offers of support from within New Zealand and internationally.
Superintendent Knowles said police were assessing those offers.

"In the meantime we have excellent input from the experts already here, specially the mine rescue specialists.

"There is also significant support and back up being provided by Police from around the country. We are bringing in extra staff to provide help accross a range of roles and support functions."

"There is also coordination and liasion support being provided by Police staff in other parts of the country," Superintendent Knowles said.

Media note: There will be no further updates tonight.
A media conference will be held at Greymouth Police Station at 0800 tomorrow (Sunday.

Police media communications contact:
Grant Ogilvie
Police Public Affairs, PNHQ
Mobile 027236 9974 - in Greymouth

Russell Pilcher
Police Public Affairs, PNHQ
Mobile 027 437 0148 - Wellington

All media updates will be published on the NZ Police website - www.police.govt.nz

B.M.
20-11-2010, 09:42 PM
If anything this discussion has high-lighted how superior our current system is. At the very least people are now educated on the hazards and a minimum level of knowledge of the job at hand is required, and processes are in place to ensure people such as yourself can't put others in danger.

You’re kidding, there is more people injured at work today than there ever was. :lol:

Ask ACC. :lol:

In my case I can’t name one person that was killed or suffered any serious or permanent injury the whole time I was contracting.

And the problem is, that these days they think that because they are decked out in the most fashionable safety gear they are bullet proof.

Let me assure you, that if a trench or a tunnel collapses on you it doesn’t matter a stuff what you’re wearing. Most accidents care not about your attire.

But going back to my first post, I still say that if there are survivors, then their only chance of survival is if they let the experienced Miners run things and send the local cop back to traffic duties.

The way things are shaping I can see the Coroners Report: Cause of Death: Starvation. :rolleyes:

Metla
20-11-2010, 09:52 PM
Let me assure you, that if a trench or a tunnel collapses on you it doesn’t matter a stuff what you’re wearing. Most accidents care not about your attire.


Let me assure you, in the event of a trench collapse you would be found far easier if you were wearing a vest, Skin blends in perfectly with dirt. It maybe the difference between life and death, and it takes no effort to slip one on.

B.M.
20-11-2010, 10:09 PM
Let me assure you, in the event of a trench collapse you would be found far easier if you were wearing a vest, Skin blends in perfectly with dirt. It maybe the difference between life and death, and it takes no effort to slip one on.

Yeah, they’d be looking for you but I’d be gone because I’d got the warning. ;)

Unfortunately, if you get buried in a Cave-In, you chances aren’t good, fancy vest, of no fancy vest.

The idea is not to get caught.;)

Digby
20-11-2010, 10:09 PM
First rule of emergency rescue from a confined space, do not send anymore into die.


Which rule book are you quoting from ?

I said ask for volunteers !

If there are no volunteers, then fair enough.

And yes why is a policeman running the show and not an experienced miner?

And that was a good point about that South Auckland shooting waiting half an hour to make sure no one was there ?

This will make a good movie, probably get Bruce Willis or Steven Segal to star as the rescue chief, they'd probably wait for a week or so.

KarameaDave
20-11-2010, 10:15 PM
Perhaps, Digby, you could do a better job? No? I thought not.

nerd
20-11-2010, 10:19 PM
Even if they are volunteers, you don't want to send them in where they could die? Would you send in volunteers, without knowing it's safe and that you might be sending them to their deaths?

Metla
20-11-2010, 10:24 PM
Which rule book are you quoting from ?

I said ask for volunteers !

If there are no volunteers, then fair enough.

And yes why is a policeman running the show and not an experienced miner?


Unit standards

18426 Demonstrate knowledge of hazards associated with confined space
17599 Plan a confined space entry
14562 Perform specialist rescues in confined spaces

Is sending volunteers to their death a lesser crime?

And come on,You would have to be a bit thick to think the police spokesman is running the show,or even has a say.

martynz
20-11-2010, 10:44 PM
"And come on,You would have to be a bit thick to think the police spokesman is running the show,or even has a say."

But thats the impression I get watching the news reports.

I come from a coal mining community in South Wales and find the police making the decisions about when to attempt the rescue very strange. Is there someting in NZ law that gives them that ultimate responsibility?

Digby
20-11-2010, 10:56 PM
Perhaps, Digby, you could do a better job? No? I thought not.

Fly me down there and I'll ask for volunteers.

If they volunteer I'll send them in. If no one volunteers, well just wait for the police chief to do his thing.

Did you see the movie K9 I think ? about the Russian submarine that had a breakdown in its nuclear reactor.

Guys volunteered to go into to the reactor to repair it, knowing they were no going to live. They did it to save their mates.

They have a lot of coal mine disasters in China, I wonder how long they wait before going in ?

Metla
20-11-2010, 10:56 PM
"And come on,You would have to be a bit thick to think the police spokesman is running the show,or even has a say."

But thats the impression I get watching the news reports.

I come from a coal mining community in South Wales and find the police making the decisions about when to attempt the rescue very strange. Is there someting in NZ law that gives them that ultimate responsibility?

As far as I'm aware they have no responsibility ,I certainly wouldn't be in a hurry to hand over control of a site to the police unless it was obvious they had some relevant specialist skills , Though I would hand it over to the fire service in an instant

My assumption is its just easy to use them for press releases, They have plenty of real experts steering the ship.

SP8's
20-11-2010, 11:09 PM
I would have thought they there was safety gear available, hazmat suit, breathing apparatus and communications equipment which a single volunteer could safely enter the mine and give a running commentary to the "top brass" .... and surely they have a portable gas analyser (or a bloody budgie in a cage like the old days) which would indicate toxic gases.

With the shaft ventilation system out ... could be considered good or bad ... too much fresh air could result in a very explosive environment .... less air (oxygen) would actually reduce the risk of secondary explosion.

I am saddened by the whole affair and wish all will returned safe ... unfortunately, I think the delay in getting a first hand information from within the mine is excessive.

My thought are with all on the Coast tonight.

prefect
20-11-2010, 11:14 PM
I think what a lot of people are thinking is why dont some miners say **** this I am going in and having a look and you arent going to stop me. Thats what happened rightly or wrongly in the past.
People just need to get to grips with the modern way of doing things its all OSHified now boyo.

ubergeek85
20-11-2010, 11:15 PM
Did you see the movie K9 I think ? about the Russian submarine that had a breakdown in its nuclear reactor.

K-19: The widowmaker.

Good movie.

Paul.Cov
20-11-2010, 11:19 PM
Latest reports suggest there has been no evidence of collapse in the mine, so there's only 2 threats to the guys down there - the original concussion of the blast, and the damned gasses that have probably been building even higher since the first blast.

Altho if the rescue is delayed too much longer then you have to wonder about dehydration taking them out as well.

Seems silly to me that they expect a compromised ventilation system to lower the gases, as it is probably inadequacies of the ventilation gear that set all this off in the first place... and that was prior to the blast lowering its performance even further.

My old man used to have a pocket sized device for detecting combustibles. It would even register the stuff on your breath, or from your rear... if this thing was safe enough to use around LPG, then why isn't it readily available for mines?

coldfront
20-11-2010, 11:21 PM
Yet more crap is being written by the internet experts who have simply no idea on what processes will be and are being followed.

A BA equiped "volunteer" entering a volitile poisonous atmosphere would have around 30 minutes to conduct any rescue before the air cylinder they carry would expire, let alone the effect of exhaustion from body heat within that suit. Second point NO single person would be allowed to go in for that reason. Lot more I could say about conducting a rescue in a dangerous confined space without knowing the risks.

And to Digby and prefect I am sure your your local fire station is manned by volunteers that would be keen to have you onboard with your enthusiasm.

SP8's
20-11-2010, 11:30 PM
Not saying I'm an expert ... but seriously think there should have been some investigation by a single experienced miner to at least the point where the other two managed to waalk out from.

They have got an air supply in a safe room somewhere ... however, the guy who was closest to the explosion was knocked unconscious for a time ... if this happened to others deeper in the mine, would they have been able to get there emergency breathing packs on in time ??

Got a sinking feeling about this one ....

prefect
20-11-2010, 11:31 PM
Yet more crap is being written by the internet experts who have simply no idea on what processes will be and are being followed.

A BA equiped "volunteer" entering a volitile poisonous atmosphere would have around 30 minutes to conduct any rescue before the air cylinder they carry would expire, let alone the effect of exhaustion from body heat within that suit. Second point NO single person would be allowed to go in for that reason. Lot more I could say about conducting a rescue in a dangerous confined space without knowing the risks.

And to Digby and prefect I am sure your your local fire station is manned by volunteers that would be keen to have you onboard with your enthusiasm.

All I am saying is a lot of people think the plod is ******* around while the miners are probaly suffocating thats all. My Neigbour thinks that, my mate who came around to borrow my TIG said the same, my wife said the same, my 14 yr old said the same.
So dont use my name in vain.
Its the new way of doing things in this country and because it does not affect me I have no opinion on it am completely neutral.

Twelvevolts
20-11-2010, 11:42 PM
Lived in Greymouth for a few years and still love going there. Very sad time, will be great if they find anyone else alive. Coasters are tough though, they will cope with it better than any other community could.

Winston001
21-11-2010, 12:00 AM
Not saying I'm an expert ... but seriously think there should have been some investigation by a single experienced miner to at least the point where the other two managed to waalk out from.



I've been pondering the whole lack of information. My guess is the rescuers know a whole lot more than we realise. Their focus will be on getting in and finding the guys, not worrying about the media.

Furthermore the families of the 29 men will come a long way in front of anyone else when it comes to sharing knowledge.

And that is exactly as it should be. The facts will be known to the world soon enough and the only thing we can do is say a silent prayer for everyone involved.

qazwsxokmijn
21-11-2010, 12:24 AM
All I am saying is a lot of people think the plod is ******* around while the miners are probaly suffocating thats all. My Neigbour thinks that, my mate who came around to borrow my TIG said the same, my wife said the same, my 14 yr old said the same.
So dont use my name in vain.
Its the new way of doing things in this country and because it does not affect me I have no opinion on it am completely neutral.
Says the internet hero. It's always easier said than done. So much bravado in the face of a monitor screen. Only god knows whether or not that bravado would remain if you were put in there right now.

The risk of losing multiple rescuers would be as equally tragic to losing the 27 miners, no team leader would want that on their heads.

prefect
21-11-2010, 12:41 AM
Says the internet hero. It's always easier said than done. So much bravado in the face of a monitor screen. Only god knows whether or not that bravado would remain if you were put in there right now.

The risk of losing multiple rescuers would be as equally tragic to losing the 27 miners, no team leader would want that on their heads.

I was actually wondering if you can understand English that well, please look up neutral in your indon to anglais dictionary.

B.M.
21-11-2010, 06:23 AM
Even if they are volunteers, you don't want to send them in where they could die? Would you send in volunteers, without knowing it's safe and that you might be sending them to their deaths?

Do firemen enter burning buildings, or do they wait until the fires out? :rolleyes:

Digby
21-11-2010, 06:28 AM
Do firemen enter burning buildings, or do they wait until the fires out? :rolleyes:

Good point.

And if it's not possible for a volunteer to go in their with full breathing apparatus, how can you expect 29 men to stay alive with all that methane gas and a 20 minute air supply?

Perhaps they could drop one of those OSH manuals down the ventilation shaft !

Don't worry lad's you're on your own. Just dig yourselves out.

And do you notice how the news media starts each news bulletin with "its now Hour 38" etc.

coldfront
21-11-2010, 07:20 AM
All I am saying is a lot of people think the plod is ******* around while the miners are probaly suffocating thats all. My Neigbour thinks that, my mate who came around to borrow my TIG said the same, my wife said the same, my 14 yr old said the same.
So dont use my name in vain.
Its the new way of doing things in this country and because it does not affect me I have no opinion on it am completely neutral.

Any of them got knowledge or experiance of the situation? Any of them worn a BA, scuba or one these air packs to know how long the air supplys last?

Any of them heard of CIMS? Yes thats the structure of control in dealing with an incident that involves multiple agencies.

coldfront
21-11-2010, 07:27 AM
I've been pondering the whole lack of information. My guess is the rescuers know a whole lot more than we realise. Their focus will be on getting in and finding the guys, not worrying about the media.


No kidding!!!

One thing I was taught with the emergency services is DO NOT TALK TO THE MEDIA.

Lots of things happen that the meia are not made aware of this one is being handled pretty good, with the media blocked form getting in the way of the people who are doing what they should do.

A chain of command releases information when needed, not when the media wants it.

coldfront
21-11-2010, 07:30 AM
Do firemen enter burning buildings, or do they wait until the fires out? :rolleyes:

No they eliminate the hazzard.

Digby
21-11-2010, 08:30 AM
How about sending in one of the wheeled robot things ?

Trev
21-11-2010, 08:44 AM
I would say at a guess that they are all dead. The blast would of killed them. The mining authorities know this but are not letting it out until it has been confirmed.
:(

B.M.
21-11-2010, 09:03 AM
No they eliminate the hazzard.

Yeah, for a couple of days. :rolleyes:

prefect
21-11-2010, 09:05 AM
No kidding!!!

One thing I was taught with the emergency services is DO NOT TALK TO THE MEDIA.

Lots of things happen that the meia are not made aware of this one is being handled pretty good, with the media blocked form getting in the way of the people who are doing what they should do.

A chain of command releases information when needed, not when the media wants it.

It works both ways, what about if you want help from media say to public to look out for a crook. Mess the media around and they may find some way to get back at you.
The Chile operation showed how to deal with media.

Paul.Cov
21-11-2010, 09:21 AM
They're now reporting there's heat coming from the mine - so there's coal or gases still burning... one more hazard, but also potentially a way to reduce the methane - pity about the CO2 that it leaves behind though.

paulw
21-11-2010, 09:25 AM
I would say at a guess that they are all dead. The blast would of killed them. The mining authorities know this but are not letting it out until it has been confirmed.
:(

Unfortunately I think your correct. Officer Dibble and co know this..

B.M.
21-11-2010, 09:58 AM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4368715/Rescuers-to-drill-into-West-Coast-mine

I found these bits interesting: :(

“Police Superintendent Gary Knowles, the Tasman Police District Commander and the man in charge of the rescue, said they were still focused on getting the men out.”

Now why would you have a Policeman in charge of a Mine Rescue?

*******
An international group of law officers had been set up to help the rescue mission, Knowles said.

I’m sure that will be most helpful! :rolleyes:
*******
And from a Miner:

"If I had my way, I'd be down there and I'd go into the mine myself - I'm not scared or nothing - and I'd go and look myself, gas or not," he said.
"We go and sit there and listen to what they tell us in the office, listen to that, and it's just the same old runaround-runaround. Excuses for why things can't be done, instead of trying to find solutions."

Amen.

Typical New Zealand 2010. PC-Fluro Jacketed-Bollicks!

Metla
21-11-2010, 10:00 AM
Unfortunately I think your correct. Officer Dibble and co know this..

They would have weighed up the chances of them being alive with the risk associated with sending people in.

Its pretty easy to connect the dots.:stare:

coldfront
21-11-2010, 10:09 AM
Yeah, for a couple of days. :rolleyes:

If thats what it takes yes!

You have simply no idea of what you are talking about.

Terry Porritt
21-11-2010, 10:14 AM
"Now why would you have a Policeman in charge of a Mine Rescue? "

Simple, because coordination of search and rescue in NZ is their function.
Read this and you may learn something......http://www.police.govt.nz/service/sar/index.html

coldfront
21-11-2010, 10:15 AM
It works both ways, what about if you want help from media say to public to look out for a crook. Mess the media around and they may find some way to get back at you.
The Chile operation showed how to deal with media.

It is great when the media start reporting inaccurate information as well.

What I have seen of this incident is a controlled and careful release of information based on facts. I have also read a few news articles that are sensationalised to get the readers attention.

Really do you think the media angle is being mishandled? I dont think so

coldfront
21-11-2010, 10:24 AM
"Now why would you have a Policeman in charge of a Mine Rescue? "

Simple, because coordination of search and rescue in NZ is their function.
Read this and you may learn something......http://www.police.govt.nz/service/sar/index.html.

Finally someone who understands how the CIMS system works?

And one other thing to overlook! The mine explosion is a crime scene because lives were put at risk and possibly lost.

prefect
21-11-2010, 10:31 AM
"Now why would you have a Policeman in charge of a Mine Rescue? "

Simple, because coordination of search and rescue in NZ is their function.
Read this and you may learn something......http://www.police.govt.nz/service/sar/index.html

Lucky the Chileans didnt have polizei in charge they would be toast.
Understanding the system does make the system right.

xyz823
21-11-2010, 10:32 AM
Fly me down there and I'll ask for volunteers.

If they volunteer I'll send them in. If no one volunteers, well just wait for the police chief to do his thing.

Did you see the movie K9 I think ? about the Russian submarine that had a breakdown in its nuclear reactor.

Guys volunteered to go into to the reactor to repair it, knowing they were no going to live. They did it to save their mates.

This is real life. Not a movie.

prefect
21-11-2010, 10:33 AM
How about sending in one of the wheeled robot things ?

Hard to make electric motors to power robot intrinsically safe from sparking.

B.M.
21-11-2010, 10:39 AM
"Now why would you have a Policeman in charge of a Mine Rescue? "

Simple, because coordination of search and rescue in NZ is their function.
Read this and you may learn something......http://www.police.govt.nz/service/sar/index.html

Yes, I’ve seen them in charge of Coastguard Rescues too that I’ve been involved in.

Hence my lack of faith.

This is specialist work and well out of the league of a "West Coast Bobbie".

B.M.
21-11-2010, 10:55 AM
.And one other thing to overlook! The mine explosion is a crime scene because lives were put at risk and possibly lost.

Oh well, that changes everything. :lol:

Let's put everything on hold until we sort the paperwork.

The miners can wait until we get our papers shuffled. :groan:

gary67
21-11-2010, 10:56 AM
Yes, I’ve seen them in charge of Coastguard Rescues too that I’ve been involved in.

Hence my lack of faith.

This is specialist work and well out of the league of a "West Coast Bobbie".

Yes the Police are in charge on cave rescues too, although the control is always manned by cavers and the Police controller is usually just that a controller taking advice from cavers. We have to keep them in the loop since it is SAR (i.e the Police) who pick up the bill.

So cavers make the decisions and the Police are the face of those decisions

coldfront
21-11-2010, 11:05 AM
Oh well, that changes everything. :lol:

Let's put everything on hold until we sort the paperwork.

The miners can wait until we get our papers shuffled. :groan:

Paperwork comes second saving/attempting to save lives comes first along with not putting further life at risk.

Digby
21-11-2010, 11:09 AM
I'm with you Prefect.

What was the name of the Chilean police office who was in charge of their mine rescue effort ?

coldfront
21-11-2010, 11:10 AM
Yes, I’ve seen them in charge of Coastguard Rescues too that I’ve been involved in.

Hence my lack of faith.

This is specialist work and well out of the league of a "West Coast Bobbie".

Certainly well beyond your league!

I love people like you who think they can do a better job! Your the kind of person we normally tie up and throw in some dark corner until the incident is over assuming someone does not lay you out first.:clap

Snorkbox
21-11-2010, 11:13 AM
I know. Lets send Digby and BM down there!

This would stop them having time to bleat on here and have the added advantage that the Miners would be out with no further loss of life.

All positive I think.

coldfront
21-11-2010, 11:17 AM
I'm with you Prefect.

What was the name of the Chilean police office who was in charge of their mine rescue effort ?

I wonder if you actually realise what the differances are between this and what happened in chile? Not talking about the rescue effort but about the circumstances of the mining incident that caused the rescue!

Short memory we had an Earthquake in Christchurch of a similer scale as the one in Haiti and other places and no one was killed.

There have been mine explosions in China and Russia where hundreds have been killed.

Your trying to say that because of your distrust of the Police that this rescue is not being handled properly? given what has been mobilised to the area to get find out answers of what has happened in that mine you disgust me.

bazmeister
21-11-2010, 11:38 AM
Some of the posts on this subject indicate a deep-seated dislike of the Police and everything they stand by, you'd have to wonder what's behind it.

Anyone with half a brain would understand that the rescue is being co-ordinated by the Police, who are being guided by the best information and advice that they can get. The Police Officer in charge would be the last person to hold himself out as an expert on mining problems.

Recent news on the subject underlines a big methane problem, and also mentions the risk of sending in robots.

Back off and leave it up to those with the nightmare job of trying to solve the issues.

B.M.
21-11-2010, 12:10 PM
Well at least this thread has flushed all the hand-wringing bureaucrats that sleep in their “Fluro’s”. :lol:

Must remember that “Safety is Paramount” ;)

martynz
21-11-2010, 12:17 PM
Is this a time for petty squabbling and point scoring.
Show some respect.

xyz823
21-11-2010, 12:18 PM
Well at least this thread has flushed all the hand-wringing bureaucrats that sleep in their “Fluro’s”. :lol:

Must remember that “Safety is Paramount” ;)

Uhhh have you ever thought that all the "safety is paramount" stuff was brought about by dipshits who got themselves severely injured or killed?

B.M.
21-11-2010, 12:59 PM
Uhhh have you ever thought that all the "safety is paramount" stuff was brought about by dipshits who got themselves severely injured or killed?

So how do you account for there being more injured and killed these days than ever before? :confused:

Reference: ACC news bulletins.

xyz823
21-11-2010, 01:06 PM
So how do you account for there being more injured and killed these days than ever before? :confused:

Reference: ACC news bulletins.

Link? Is it a higher percentage of workers or just more workers? Maybe people just complain about little things these days to get ACC compensation.

I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying that there must have been something to start all this "PC gibberish".

KarameaDave
21-11-2010, 01:12 PM
This mine is different to the one in Chile.
A coal mine has flammable gases and coal dust, neither of which
were issues in the Chilean case.

Some of you are behaving like wallies IMHO

B.M.
21-11-2010, 02:08 PM
Link? Is it a higher percentage of workers or just more workers? Maybe people just complain about little things these days to get ACC compensation.

I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying that there must have been something to start all this "PC gibberish".

Like you darkstar09 I’m curious about the OSH Industry v ACC statistics.

So I went looking and came up with the following:

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/ACC.jpg

Remember these are only Work Related claims:

Note how in the year 07/99 to 06/2000 there were 5609 Claims.

And in the year 07/2008 to 06/2009 there were 27,116 Claims. :eek:

So in 10 years, Work Related Claims have escalated 21,507 for the relative time period. (1 year) :eek:

Am I to assume then that all the OSH BS isn’t working, in fact quite the reverse. :confused:

xyz823
21-11-2010, 02:55 PM
Like you darkstar09 I’m curious about the OSH Industry v ACC statistics.

So I went looking and came up with the following:

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/ACC.jpg

Remember these are only Work Related claims:

Note how in the year 07/99 to 06/2000 there were 5609 Claims.

And in the year 07/2008 to 06/2009 there were 27,116 Claims. :eek:

So in 10 years, Work Related Claims have escalated 21,507 for the relative time period. (1 year) :eek:

Am I to assume then that all the OSH BS isn’t working, in fact quite the reverse. :confused:

In 07/99 to 06/2000 there were 5609 claims, the following year 07/2000 to 06/2001 there were 20,486. Why was there such a huge jump? :illogical

Also, it has remained quite regular from 07/2001-06/2002 up to 07/2008-06/2009. In fact it has dropped from a peak of 29,310 in the year 07/2006-06/2007.

Your statement can't really be classified as true, as before 1999 it may have been at 20,000ish making 07/99-06/2000 an irregular year. When was ACC established?

Digby
21-11-2010, 03:04 PM
Newtalk ZB Says its hour 47 of the disaster.

Do you think they are saying something ?

Digby
21-11-2010, 03:05 PM
I know. Lets send Digby and BM down there!


Ok, where's my airfare and what's they pay like ?

I hardly know BM !

Metla
21-11-2010, 03:07 PM
In 07/99 to 06/2000 there were 5609 claims, the following year 07/2000 to 06/2001 there were 20,486. Why was there such a huge jump? :illogical



Notice also how the cost of the claims actually is less then the year before even though there is a massive increase in new claims.

So my guess is they changed the way the defined whatever it is they are counting to come up with whatever those figures are, as without some explanation to put them into context they are meaningless.Thinking about it I'd say they probably started to get every doctor and hospital in the country to log every visit they got that they could possibly put on their books.

Though I am amused anyone is stupid enough to claim doing things as dangerous as possible with no rescue plan or knowledge of what they are doing leads to a safer workplace.

xyz823
21-11-2010, 03:25 PM
Notice also how the cost of the claims actually is less then the year before even though there is a massive increase in new claims.

So my guess is they changed the way the defined whatever it is they are counting to come up with whatever those figures are, as without some explanation to put them into context they are meaningless.Thinking about it I'd say they probably started to get every doctor and hospital in the country to log every visit they got that they could possibly put on their books.

Sounds about right.


Though I am amused anyone is stupid enough to claim doing things as dangerous as possible with no rescue plan or knowledge of what they are doing leads to a safer workplace.

Exactly. Retards who think they are indestructible. They whinge and moan about all the safety stuff, then when someone dies, they whinge and moan that safety wasn't emphasised enough!

Metla
21-11-2010, 03:30 PM
for anyone interested, a good place to find info is here

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/health/injuries/InjuryStatistics_HOTP08/Technical%20Notes.aspx

coldfront
21-11-2010, 03:35 PM
Ok, where's my airfare and what's they pay like ?

I hardly know BM !

I guess thats a major differance between you and the guys involved in the rescue. Do you think everyone involved does it for the money?

B.M.
21-11-2010, 03:36 PM
In 07/99 to 06/2000 there were 5609 claims, the following year 07/2000 to 06/2001 there were 20,486. Why was there such a huge jump? :illogical

Also, it has remained quite regular from 07/2001-06/2002 up to 07/2008-06/2009. In fact it has dropped from a peak of 29,310 in the year 07/2006-06/2007.

Your statement can't really be classified as true, as before 1999 it may have been at 20,000ish making 07/99-06/2000 an irregular year. When was ACC established?

I agree, there is something that doesn't seem quite right there but I've no idea how ACC do their accounting and given their recent history nor do they.

However, in answer to you question as to when ACC was established, I think you'll find 1974 is the answer.

One thing for sure though, there are a lot more accidents these days than there were 30 years ago. Maybe back then if we fell off our bike, our horse, or the roof, we just dusted ourselves off and got back on. :D

xyz823
21-11-2010, 03:42 PM
However, in answer to you question as to when ACC was established, I think you'll find 1974 is the answer.

No data from 1974-1998 then?

B.M.
21-11-2010, 04:04 PM
No data from 1974-1998 then?

No data yet for that period but I’m on the case. :D

However, this from the link Metla kindly provided.

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/Injury_Stats.jpg

Unbelievable.

Given that safety is 99.9% common sense, we must now have the dumbest workforce ever. :groan:

Metla
21-11-2010, 04:36 PM
No data yet for that period but I’m on the case. :D

However, this from the link Metla kindly provided.

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/Injury_Stats.jpg

Unbelievable.

Given that safety is 99.9% common sense, we must now have the dumbest workforce ever. :groan:

The only relevant number is the amount per 1000 workers, and seeing as they give no further information you can't draw any conclusion from that alone.

The work force has increased massively over the last 20 years so we need the ratio of incidents to workers to see if the amount of incidents has increased or decreased.

Digby
21-11-2010, 05:06 PM
Newstalk ZB Hour 49

NZ Herald says the new shaft they are drilling may be finished this evening or it may take two days ? (dur) It is going to be about 150 metres deep. Why not just tell us how far they have got so far ! Have they started ? What is the rock like ?

The man in charge of the rescue unit says the walk into the mine two kilometres may take two hours as the floor may be uneven ! and they have to get past a loader !

How does he know if the floor is going to be uneven for 2 k's !
Surely it should be fairly even if they planned to get the coal out on a railways etc.

And how big is this loader that it will take 2 hours to get round.

Metla
21-11-2010, 05:36 PM
Suggest you ring up Newstalk and tell them you know better, that the mine rescue experts are miles away in the estimation of the hazards and potential time frame.

Go on, do it, They need people like yourself to crawl out of the woodwork....

B.M.
21-11-2010, 05:41 PM
The only relevant number is the amount per 1000 workers, and seeing as they give no further information you can't draw any conclusion from that alone.

The work force has increased massively over the last 20 years so we need the ratio of incidents to workers to see if the amount of incidents has increased or decreased.

But surely 224,900 “Work Force Accidents” in one year is outrageous by any standards. That number of ACC claims would still be outrageous for the entire population, not just the Workforce.

Struth, the buggers that live in minefields overseas have less accidents.

I wonder how many accidents we’d have if we pulled the plug on ACC? :confused:

Snorkbox
21-11-2010, 05:46 PM
The work force gets damaged in various ways including car accidents, playing rugby etc. It does not say all accidents happen at work does it!!!

Obviously you would be a very fit person spending all that time jumping to conclusions as you do.

Add 2 + 2 you will find it's not = 5.

SP8's
21-11-2010, 06:35 PM
Newstalk ZB Hour 49

NZ Herald says the new shaft they are drilling may be finished this evening or it may take two days ? (dur) It is going to be about 150 metres deep. Why not just tell us how far they have got so far ! Have they started ? What is the rock like ?

The man in charge of the rescue unit says the walk into the mine two kilometres may take two hours as the floor may be uneven ! and they have to get past a loader !

How does he know if the floor is going to be uneven for 2 k's !
Surely it should be fairly even if they planned to get the coal out on a railways etc.

And how big is this loader that it will take 2 hours to get round.

The guy has been down the mine .... the coal is transported out from the coal face by conveyor belt which can be seen on the left hand side when they show the mineshaft.

Try walking uphill with rescue gear and in a hazmat type suit with breathing apparatus and see how long it takes .... it's not a gentle walk along the beach on a summers afternoon.

I can, for the most part, see their reasoning ... however ... I'd let 1 volunteer go in with all the gear and communications ... but remember also that you can't use a cellphone at a petrol station because of the risk of explosion.

Forcing more into the mine may create a more explosive methane / air mix and assist any fire that may still be smouldering.

Don't like the attitude of the top cop ... but it wont just be him that's making the decisions.

Twelvevolts
21-11-2010, 06:41 PM
I certainly pleased the real experts are in charge of this operation and not some of the self appointed experts on here.

paulw
21-11-2010, 06:45 PM
but remember also that you can't use a cellphone at a petrol station because of the risk of explosion..

That old wives tail was debunked years ago buy US and British researches.

Metla
21-11-2010, 06:47 PM
That old wives tail was debunked years ago buy US and British researches.

mythbusters also....

Marnie
21-11-2010, 06:48 PM
Aside from the pro's and cons of the argument over the rescue of the miners.

Some people don't deserve a space on this planet.

http://greystar.co.nz/node/553

KarameaDave
21-11-2010, 07:03 PM
Horrible, Marnie, the sods who did that are worthless lowlifes.

coldfront
21-11-2010, 07:07 PM
That old wives tail was debunked years ago buy US and British researches.

May have been debunked but use of any electronic device in a flamable atmosphere can and willcause an explosion. Differance with your petrol station is the volume involved is not such that you can not breath without assistance. Second point cellphones while filling a fuel tank ARE a distraction resulting in spillage and you guessed it a fire hazzard.

coldfront
21-11-2010, 07:13 PM
Newstalk ZB Hour 49

NZ Herald says the new shaft they are drilling may be finished this evening or it may take two days ? (dur) It is going to be about 150 metres deep. Why not just tell us how far they have got so far ! Have they started ? What is the rock like ?

The man in charge of the rescue unit says the walk into the mine two kilometres may take two hours as the floor may be uneven ! and they have to get past a loader !

How does he know if the floor is going to be uneven for 2 k's !
Surely it should be fairly even if they planned to get the coal out on a railways etc.

And how big is this loader that it will take 2 hours to get round.

So I take it you are going to join your local Fire Brigade then? You sound really fit and capable of achieving the feat.

I have worn a hazmat suit and done some really physical exhausting exercise in one. You want to try that for two hours go ahead I can guarentee you will not be voicing your opinion after that saying it should be a walk in the park.

People like you have no idea and you keep bleating you know alll the answers and can do it better. Well if you can why are you bleating on the internet?

B.M.
21-11-2010, 07:14 PM
The work force gets damaged in various ways including car accidents, playing rugby etc. It does not say all accidents happen at work does it!!!

Obviously you would be a very fit person spending all that time jumping to conclusions as you do.

Add 2 + 2 you will find it's not = 5.

I'm sorry Snorkbox, but if you'd bothered to look you would have found the injuries did all happen at the Workplace. ;)

Sport, Motor Vehicles and the like are covered separately.

The injuries have even been broken down into Arms – Legs – Eyes and the like.

So despite your assumption, 2+2 does equal 4. ;)

B.M.
21-11-2010, 07:27 PM
Newstalk ZB Hour 49

NZ Herald says the new shaft they are drilling may be finished this evening or it may take two days ? (dur) It is going to be about 150 metres deep. Why not just tell us how far they have got so far ! Have they started ? What is the rock like ?

The man in charge of the rescue unit says the walk into the mine two kilometres may take two hours as the floor may be uneven ! and they have to get past a loader !

How does he know if the floor is going to be uneven for 2 k's !
Surely it should be fairly even if they planned to get the coal out on a railways etc.

And how big is this loader that it will take 2 hours to get round.

By jove Digby, I have just watched TV3 news and the man confirmed there was a Two Kilometre walk :eek: to the face over uneven ground :eek: and a beastly loader to negotiate. :eek:

Bugger that, I’m out, but a couple of mates said they’d go, providing they can take their Walking Frames. :thumbs:

Clearly an “Everest” type excursion. :groan:

B.M.
21-11-2010, 07:31 PM
Aside from the pro's and cons of the argument over the rescue of the miners.

Some people don't deserve a space on this planet.

http://greystar.co.nz/node/553

Time to re-introduce "public floggings" for these oxygen thieves. :mad:

coldfront
21-11-2010, 07:56 PM
By jove Digby, I have just watched TV3 news and the man confirmed there was a Two Kilometre walk :eek: to the face over uneven ground :eek: and a beastly loader to negotiate. :eek:

Bugger that, I’m out, but a couple of mates said they’d go, providing they can take their Walking Frames. :thumbs:

Clearly an “Everest” type excursion. :groan:

You have no idea do you

Brave keyboard warrior with no clue.

martynz
21-11-2010, 08:00 PM
You have no idea do you

Brave keyboard warrior with no clue.

I've just realised what B.M.stands for.

Snorkbox
21-11-2010, 08:16 PM
I'm sorry Snorkbox, but if you'd bothered to look you would have found the injuries did all happen at the Workplace. ;)

Sport, Motor Vehicles and the like are covered separately.

The injuries have even been broken down into Arms – Legs – Eyes and the like.

So despite your assumption, 2+2 does equal 4. ;)

But you did not say that in your post that it was work related did you?

""But surely 224,900 “Work Force Accidents” in one year is outrageous by any standards.""

ubergeek85
21-11-2010, 08:35 PM
This thread seems to have brought about the worst in quite a few members.

B.M.
21-11-2010, 08:43 PM
You have no idea do you

Brave keyboard warrior with no clue.

Oh don't worry, I'm quite happy to back myself against you and your ilk in a construction situation anytime. :)

KarameaDave
21-11-2010, 08:50 PM
This thread seems to have brought about the worst in quite a few members.
+1:eek:

Jen
21-11-2010, 09:10 PM
Unfortunately this thread has turned sour and now people are just calling each other out over 'facts' and who would do what.

I don't see any benefit in continuing this thread considering where it is heading, so it is now closed.