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NZHawk
17-11-2010, 11:25 AM
I am not certain how to ask this question so I will give as much information as possible:

- new computer
- windows xp home
- used in small retail clothing business
- NOT connected to internet
- networked with 2 other computers - also NOT on the internet
- this is the main/server of the group sharing MYOB retail manager data
- contains a barcode scanner, cash drawer
- has been operating fine since Oct 20th
- until last week - where it has been shutting down after approx 10 minutes after initial first boot
- I have gone to the Events list and found several errors that I hope will help sort the problem: these are the errors from this mornings crash
* Source: W32Time Event: 29
* Source: W32Time Event: 17
* Source: Dhcp Event: 1002
* Source: Service Control Manager Event: 7023

The IP addresses are assigned by DHCP
What I have done:
- test harddrive (in process)
- removed all internet security
- turned off Windows Firewall

Could some one help with why the computer crashes - thank you

SolMiester
17-11-2010, 11:29 AM
Crashing 10 minutes after boot suggested a thermal issue to me......can you install speedfan or something to check temperatures....maybe a bump has cracked the paste seal to the cpu and isnt transferring the heat through the heatsink now!

dugimodo
17-11-2010, 11:29 AM
cant help with the event log but is it possible it's overheating ?

depending on the enviroment it's installed in dust etc can accumulate very quickly but as it's a new computer it would have to be very bad to cause problems already.

If it seems like a hardware issue I would expect it is still under warranty

Speedy Gonzales
17-11-2010, 11:31 AM
Is it crashing or shutting down? If its crashing, whats the BSOD?

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 11:41 AM
Heat - could be an issue as it is stored under a counter - plenty of airflow.
But once it is rebooted it seems to stay on for quite some time - so one would think if it were a heat issue it would always crash in relatively the same amount of time - it's not.

It is crashing - we're watching it now to get the BSOD information - will let you know asap - thank you all

utopian201
17-11-2010, 11:44 AM
You've done pretty well to dig out those errors :)

W32Time Event: 29
Means it is trying to get the correct time from a time server - except it can't reach the source which provides the time.

W32Time Event: 17
This occurs when it is unable to contact the time server. As you are not connected to the internet, go to start/run and type in cmd, hit enter and type in (in the console)
net time
This will tell you where it is trying to get the time from.

These should not be causing it to crash though...

Dhcp Event: 1002
This means another computer on the network has been given the same IP address
go to start/run and type in cmd. In the console,
type ipconfig /release, and then press ENTER.
type ipconfig /renew, and then press ENTER.

Service Control Manager Event: 7023
This again is to do with the time service. Not sure how computer literate you are, so don't want to flood you with information.

Who set this up for you?
I dont think the above are serious enough to cause crashes, but I don't think it is a heat related issue, more likely a configuration issue.

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 11:46 AM
I set it up.
I am relatively computer literate (better be it's my job)

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 11:55 AM
Dhcp Event: 1002
This means another computer on the network has been given the same IP address


I rechecked this and the only other computer on the network at the time has a different IP address

Speedy Gonzales
17-11-2010, 12:02 PM
Look under system in event viewer for a bugcheck entry. I wouldnt worry about the time errors. Cant do much it theyre not on the net. Or get bluescreenview then tell us what the files are in pink

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 12:06 PM
get back to you on the bugcheck entry

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 12:27 PM
The bugcheck was: 0x000000f4 (0x00000003, 0x8a3fe350, 0x8a3fe4c4, 0x805d2954)

Speedy Gonzales
17-11-2010, 12:32 PM
If none of them are on the internet, then how are they connected to each other? A hub? Even if theyre not on the net, I would still update them

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 12:35 PM
Yes a Linksys All-In-One Ethernet Router

Speedy Gonzales
17-11-2010, 12:41 PM
And whats the point in having that, if none are on the net? Are there any service packs on any of these?

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 12:44 PM
The big picture is that they need the 3 computers linked so they can share the MYOB RetailManager database.
(Inexperience may have had a play in choosing the Linksys All-In-One Ethernet Router)
Should it have been simply a hub?

pctek
17-11-2010, 12:47 PM
I
- new computer
- windows xp home
- NOT connected to internet

- removed all internet security




Hmm. If it is new, how did you get XP on it as you can't buy it anymore?

Also if it isn't on the net, why the net protection software?

wainuitech
17-11-2010, 01:23 PM
The big picture is that they need the 3 computers linked so they can share the MYOB RetailManager database.
(Inexperience may have had a play in choosing the Linksys All-In-One Ethernet Router)
Should it have been simply a hub? No A router is the correct option.:thumbs:

Routers puts out Multi IP address within its range, each PC on a LAN has to have a separate IP address. A hub cant do that.

If a hub is connected to the router to expand out the ports, its still the router thats issuing out the IP's.

Nothing wrong with having the Linksys - you have the option to connect to the internet if you ever need to.

As for the crashing -- This may have nothing to do with it, but several years ago I had a customers new PC that would shut down after 5-20 minutes,( two weeks old) then work OK after that for a day or so, then the whole process repeats -- replaced every damn component in the PC, even though all tested OK -- going from memory ended up changing the PSU and it was fine.


Edited: how many HDD's are in this thing - and what configuration. This error problem (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330100) - same f4 error and same first Parameter ?

Similar Problem (http://www.geekstogo.com/forum/topic/284239-blue-screen-error-code-0x000000f40x00000003-0x8aa97720-0x8aa97894/) - better answer (post 2)

Tried running chkdsk ?

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 01:36 PM
Thank you for that - I'll try a new PSU.
anyone have thoughts on

The bugcheck was: 0x000000f4 (0x00000003, 0x8a3fe350, 0x8a3fe4c4, 0x805d2954)

Speedy Gonzales
17-11-2010, 02:10 PM
Do all have of them have SP3 and all updates on them tho? Since 0x000000f4 can apply to win32k.sys which is one of the system files. And there's been a lot of updates to patch / update it

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 02:16 PM
The main (server) one is Windows XP Home SP3
The other one is Windows XP Professional V2002 SP2

Speedy Gonzales
17-11-2010, 02:18 PM
Open their cases and clean them out maybe? Probably not a good idea to update them yet (it'll probably kill it / them if it crashes). Until this has been fixed. Or check its memory. Can XP Home be used as a server?

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 02:23 PM
Ok - I'll do that 1st thing tomorrow.
Can I keep this thread going then?

SolMiester
17-11-2010, 02:46 PM
The main (server) one is Windows XP Home SP3
The other one is Windows XP Professional V2002 SP2

Are they running MYOB Account Right as well as I thought that had to be running SP3

wainuitech
17-11-2010, 02:51 PM
Can XP Home be used as a server? As a basic File server yep - no problems. Its just a shared network folder.

NZHawk
17-11-2010, 03:21 PM
Are they running MYOB Account Right as well as I thought that had to be running SP3

Nope - just MYOB RetailManager

Speedy Gonzales
17-11-2010, 03:41 PM
As a basic File server yep - no problems. Its just a shared network folder.

And whats in the folder? Just documents?

wainuitech
17-11-2010, 03:54 PM
And whats in the folder? Just documents?

One one of mine which is XP Home, it has documents, pictures, applications (Which can be run/installed from the folder they are in across the LAN)

NZHawk
19-11-2010, 08:54 AM
I finally captured the BSOD code: 0x000000F4 (0X00000003, 0X8A3963C0, 0X8A396534,0X805D2954)

Speedy Gonzales
19-11-2010, 09:16 AM
What did you do since the last crash since the stop error has changed

Did you use bluescreenview to get the 2 stop errors?? If you did what files were highlighted?

NZHawk
19-11-2010, 09:25 AM
What did you do since the last crash since the stop error has changed
unplugged the linksys router over night, replugged in 1st, then booted the main computer, then the 2ndary computer

Did you use bluescreenview to get the 2 stop errors??
wasn't aware of bluescreenview.
have downloaded it will post the highlighted files shortly.
(computer is at another location - back in 10m)

Speedy Gonzales
19-11-2010, 09:28 AM
k. That may tell us WHAT files are causing it

NZHawk
19-11-2010, 09:43 AM
Here is the log of BSOD crashes:
=================================================
Dump File : Mini111910-01.dmp
Crash Time : 19/11/2010 9:07:45 a.m.
Bug Check String : CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
Bug Check Code : 0x000000f4
Parameter 1 : 0x00000003
Parameter 2 : 0x8a3963c0
Parameter 3 : 0x8a396534
Parameter 4 : 0x805d2954
Caused By Driver : ntoskrnl.exe
Caused By Address : ntoskrnl.exe+22f43
File Description : NT Kernel & System
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Company : Microsoft Corporation
File Version : 5.1.2600.5973 (xpsp_sp3_gdr.100427-1636)
Processor : 32-bit
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini111910-01.dmp
Processors Count : 4
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 2600
==================================================

==================================================
Dump File : Mini111710-01.dmp
Crash Time : 17/11/2010 9:21:02 a.m.
Bug Check String : CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
Bug Check Code : 0x000000f4
Parameter 1 : 0x00000003
Parameter 2 : 0x8a3fe350
Parameter 3 : 0x8a3fe4c4
Parameter 4 : 0x805d2954
Caused By Driver : ntoskrnl.exe
Caused By Address : ntoskrnl.exe+22f43
File Description : NT Kernel & System
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Company : Microsoft Corporation
File Version : 5.1.2600.5973 (xpsp_sp3_gdr.100427-1636)
Processor : 32-bit
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini111710-01.dmp
Processors Count : 4
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 2600
==================================================

==================================================
Dump File : Mini111610-01.dmp
Crash Time : 16/11/2010 9:09:47 a.m.
Bug Check String : CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
Bug Check Code : 0x000000f4
Parameter 1 : 0x00000003
Parameter 2 : 0x8a588a50
Parameter 3 : 0x8a588bc4
Parameter 4 : 0x805d2954
Caused By Driver : ntoskrnl.exe
Caused By Address : ntoskrnl.exe+22f43
File Description : NT Kernel & System
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Company : Microsoft Corporation
File Version : 5.1.2600.5973 (xpsp_sp3_gdr.100427-1636)
Processor : 32-bit
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini111610-01.dmp
Processors Count : 4
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 2600
==================================================

==================================================
Dump File : Mini111410-01.dmp
Crash Time : 14/11/2010 9:17:18 a.m.
Bug Check String : CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
Bug Check Code : 0x000000f4
Parameter 1 : 0x00000003
Parameter 2 : 0x8a4f8a50
Parameter 3 : 0x8a4f8bc4
Parameter 4 : 0x805d2954
Caused By Driver : ntoskrnl.exe
Caused By Address : ntoskrnl.exe+22f43
File Description : NT Kernel & System
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Company : Microsoft Corporation
File Version : 5.1.2600.5973 (xpsp_sp3_gdr.100427-1636)
Processor : 32-bit
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini111410-01.dmp
Processors Count : 4
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 2600
==================================================

==================================================
Dump File : Mini111310-01.dmp
Crash Time : 13/11/2010 9:18:17 a.m.
Bug Check String : CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
Bug Check Code : 0x000000f4
Parameter 1 : 0x00000003
Parameter 2 : 0x8a62d020
Parameter 3 : 0x8a62d194
Parameter 4 : 0x805d2954
Caused By Driver : ntoskrnl.exe
Caused By Address : ntoskrnl.exe+22f43
File Description : NT Kernel & System
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Company : Microsoft Corporation
File Version : 5.1.2600.5973 (xpsp_sp3_gdr.100427-1636)
Processor : 32-bit
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini111310-01.dmp
Processors Count : 4
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 2600
==================================================

==================================================
Dump File : Mini111110-01.dmp
Crash Time : 11/11/2010 3:07:44 p.m.
Bug Check String : CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
Bug Check Code : 0x000000f4
Parameter 1 : 0x00000003
Parameter 2 : 0x8a27ada0
Parameter 3 : 0x8a27af14
Parameter 4 : 0x805d2954
Caused By Driver : ntoskrnl.exe
Caused By Address : ntoskrnl.exe+22f43
File Description : NT Kernel & System
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Company : Microsoft Corporation
File Version : 5.1.2600.5973 (xpsp_sp3_gdr.100427-1636)
Processor : 32-bit
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini111110-01.dmp
Processors Count : 4
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 2600
==================================================

Speedy Gonzales
19-11-2010, 09:56 AM
Hmm whats the CPU in it?? Is it a quad? And whats the brand/model of the computer?

NZHawk
19-11-2010, 09:58 AM
Intel Core i3 530 2.93GHz 4MB (Intel BOXDH55TC H55 uATX 1333MHz)
PB Technologies

Speedy Gonzales
19-11-2010, 09:59 AM
Bit of a waste if its running XP

NZHawk
19-11-2010, 10:01 AM
understood - but as it was a "server" thought more power was better

Speedy Gonzales
19-11-2010, 10:19 AM
I would say it may need an update to support the CPU in windows. If it hasnt been updated since SP3

NZHawk
19-11-2010, 10:24 AM
An update as in Windows Update?
Why would it have been running just fine for a month and just now BSOD?
(I know you don't necessarily know - but just a thought / question)

Speedy Gonzales
19-11-2010, 10:34 AM
Yup as in windowsupdate. Well with some CPU's like this, (on an OS like XP), since it looks like ntoskrnl.exe is causing the crash, there's probably an update to patch / update it. Which may fix the crashing. It may even be a BIOS issue

NZHawk
19-11-2010, 11:20 AM
OK will hook up to the internet & do the updates & will report back. Cheers

Speedy Gonzales
19-11-2010, 11:31 AM
Just see whats there. DONT download all of them just in case it crashes then it may kill windows

NZHawk
22-11-2010, 10:54 AM
Available updates:
.NET Framework 3.5 service pack 1
+ 9 other security updates not available until the above is installed.
- no hardware updates

Note:
I have moved the computer to my office and it has run perfectly for the past 3+ hours
I collected & connected the bar code scanner and still no problem.

The only other factors that I am not replicating here are:
- don't have the ups
- not connected to a network

Question: could the ups be causing the crashes? Does the BSOD journal reflect anything like that?

Speedy Gonzales
22-11-2010, 11:00 AM
Since its fine in your office update it. Don't know anything about UPS's, never used one. Could be the power point / cable maybe?

dugimodo
22-11-2010, 03:22 PM
shouldn't be the UPS, cheaper ones dont have a very good approximation of a sine wave but most gear doesn't care. That said it's easily proven by taking it out of the picture fore a while.

NZHawk
25-11-2010, 12:38 PM
I did some further research & with BSOD it was recommended to download & run Windows DeBugger.
I did & here is the log, I was hoping someone could help me discern it:
Thank you


Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.12.0002.633 X86
Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Loading Dump File [C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini111110-01.dmp]
Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available

Symbol search path is: SRV*c:\symbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
Executable search path is:
Windows XP Kernel Version 2600 (Service Pack 3) MP (4 procs) Free x86 compatible
Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS Personal
Built by: 2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.100427-1636
Machine Name:
Kernel base = 0x804d7000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0x8055d720
Debug session time: Thu Nov 11 15:05:03.359 2010 (UTC + 13:00)
System Uptime: 0 days 6:10:28.281
Loading Kernel Symbols
.................................................. .............
...............................................
Loading User Symbols
Loading unloaded module list
....................
************************************************** *****************************
* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
************************************************** *****************************

Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.

BugCheck F4, {3, 8a27ada0, 8a27af14, 805d2954}

unable to get nt!KiCurrentEtwBufferOffset
unable to get nt!KiCurrentEtwBufferBase
Probably caused by : hardware_disk ( +fc )

Followup: MachineOwner
---------

3: kd> !analyze -v
************************************************** *****************************
* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
************************************************** *****************************

CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION (f4)
A process or thread crucial to system operation has unexpectedly exited or been
terminated.
Several processes and threads are necessary for the operation of the
system; when they are terminated (for any reason), the system can no
longer function.
Arguments:
Arg1: 00000003, Process
Arg2: 8a27ada0, Terminating object
Arg3: 8a27af14, Process image file name
Arg4: 805d2954, Explanatory message (ascii)

Debugging Details:
------------------

unable to get nt!KiCurrentEtwBufferOffset
unable to get nt!KiCurrentEtwBufferBase

PROCESS_OBJECT: 8a27ada0

IMAGE_NAME: hardware_disk

DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 0

FAULTING_MODULE: 00000000

PROCESS_NAME: csrss.exe

EXCEPTION_RECORD: a732f9d8 -- (.exr 0xffffffffa732f9d8)
ExceptionAddress: 75b7b3b9
ExceptionCode: c0000006 (In-page I/O error)
ExceptionFlags: 00000000
NumberParameters: 3
Parameter[0]: 00000008
Parameter[1]: 75b7b3b9
Parameter[2]: c000000e
Inpage operation failed at 75b7b3b9, due to I/O error c000000e

EXCEPTION_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000006 - The instruction at "0x%08lx" referenced memory at "0x%08lx". The required data was not placed into memory because of an I/O error status of "0x%08lx".

CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT: 1

DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: DRIVER_FAULT

ERROR_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000006 - The instruction at "0x%08lx" referenced memory at "0x%08lx". The required data was not placed into memory because of an I/O error status of "0x%08lx".

EXCEPTION_PARAMETER1: 00000008

EXCEPTION_PARAMETER2: 75b7b3b9

EXCEPTION_PARAMETER3: c000000e

IO_ERROR: (NTSTATUS) 0xc000000e - A device which does not exist was specified.

EXCEPTION_STR: 0xc0000006_c000000e

FAULTING_IP:
+fc
75b7b3b9 ?? ???

BUGCHECK_STR: 0xF4_IOERR_C000000E

FOLLOWUP_IP:
+fc
75b7b3b9 ?? ???

FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner

MODULE_NAME: hardware_disk

SYMBOL_NAME: +fc

STACK_COMMAND: kb

FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: 0xF4_IOERR_C000000E_+fc

BUCKET_ID: 0xF4_IOERR_C000000E_+fc

Followup: MachineOwner
-

Speedy Gonzales
25-11-2010, 12:57 PM
Probably better if you login here with your hotmail addy, and ask (http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/default.aspx?tab=2#tab=1) and post that report. I've never used the debugger. I usually use Bluescreenview