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View Full Version : Haka - arrogance??



Zippity
01-11-2010, 12:04 PM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10684550

I agree 100% :clap:clap:clap

rob_on_guitar
01-11-2010, 12:11 PM
Nah, sounds like another whinging pom. Complaining about the haka, then complained about when the abs did it in the changing rooms, then complained about the tackle that broke wotshisfaces shoulder.

The haka has been around longer than that reporter and Id say will be there alot longer after him. Nothing to see here.

DeSade
01-11-2010, 12:11 PM
Its about time thugby was seen for what it really is.

Zippity
01-11-2010, 12:18 PM
Sorry Rob, but your are wrong.

The AB's are arrogant if they think they can perform the haka with having it challenged.

I just so wish that an opposing team would bare their buttocks at the AB's.

Screw the AB's and all this "so called" Maori culture.

allblack
01-11-2010, 12:28 PM
Sorry Rob, but your are wrong

It's an opinion.

His.

Ergo, it can't be 'wrong'.

Here's another for you to say is wrong.

Back when the AB's were "invincible", the haka had it's place and they had the game won before the kickoff whistle.

Now, things are different, and as no team in the world fears them, with the possible exception of Japan and Botswana, the haka does look arrogant and is an anachronism.

rob_on_guitar
01-11-2010, 12:32 PM
Im not wrong at all. The haka is meant to be challenged, its an invitation to challenge.
Alot of teams have their own version, its just they are not up their with the abs, the aussies have their sheep dancing song, alot of the island nations have their own, PNG have their own....
....and most sporting teams are arrogant, I mean it would be boring if they weren't.
By the same token does everyone have to stop the advertising media which has been far more creative in terms of giving stick to a team?

Zippity
01-11-2010, 12:44 PM
Sorry for saying Rob was wrong. That was not quite what I meant :(

For years, I have considered the haka to be an arrogant display.

I was just so glad to see that someone else has said so in print.

rob_on_guitar
01-11-2010, 12:47 PM
Im not fussed, think i know what you meant, I only get upset when someone drinks the last beer out of the fridge and doesnt say anything lol

Snorkbox
01-11-2010, 12:52 PM
The point now though is that the HAKA has been performed for so long now that it has been elevated from Culture to Tradition.

DeSade
01-11-2010, 12:56 PM
The Haka is a call to war, its a acronistic and archaic form of challenge that has no place in modern society.

I think thugby itself should be banned but that opinion is by far in the minority.

prefect
01-11-2010, 01:03 PM
Did anyone remember Ipi Tombi when they toured here in the 80s.
Now that was a cool jump around by natives especially the topless ones.

Gobe1
01-11-2010, 01:17 PM
The Haka is a call to war, its a acronistic and archaic form of challenge that has no place in modern society.

I think thugby itself should be banned but that opinion is by far in the minority.

haha i think people who play it should have to pay their own medical insurance and not be eligible for ACC but that is another story not to be talked about here

KenESmith
01-11-2010, 02:04 PM
Rugby ceased to be a sport when they started playing prima donna players mega-bucks.

They are now relegated to the position of paid entertainers -
The idea that rugby is a battle is wrong and unsportsmanlike - The concept of sport, implies that participation is the most important attribute and so long as all players give of their best the outcome is secondary.

The NZ national attitude has brought the sport of Rugby down to the level of a gladitorial combat between teams of paid performers.

DeSade
01-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Rugby ceased to be a sport when they started playing prima donna players mega-bucks.

They are now relegated to the position of paid entertainers -
The idea that rugby is a battle is wrong and unsportsmanlike - The concept of sport, implies that participation is the most important attribute and so long as all players give of their best the outcome is secondary.

The NZ national attitude has brought the sport of Rugby down to the level of a gladitorial combat between teams of paid performers.

The players are a disgrace, without the "game" as an outlet most of them would be in prison for assault and murder.

SoniKalien
01-11-2010, 02:17 PM
Rugby ceased to be a sport when they started playing prima donna players mega-bucks.


Damn straight. One reason they do the Haka is to attract attention and provide entertainment - thus getting more people to NZ = more tourism $$$ The AB's are not much more than a marketing gimmick these days...

rob_on_guitar
01-11-2010, 02:19 PM
Ok sounds some of you dont know what the haka actually is, one thing it isn't is a 'war dance'.

Do some home work.

The game itself is a contact competitive sport, if you don't like it watch soccer (yea I said it, soccer:p), they fake injuries and only touch each other in the softly.

The millions it generates should be enough to cover the 30 or so players actually playing it in acc....

B.M.
01-11-2010, 03:26 PM
I'm afraid the Haka has been flogged to death. You can't even watch the news on TV1 without them fitting one in somewhere.

Unfortunately, most of the World have no idea about the Haka and seeing some Natives pulling faces, poking out there tongue, stamping their feet, and slapping there thighs gives them the impression that New Zealand is still totally uncivilised.

The Australian poet AB (Banjo) Patterson made reference to it in one of his poems about Maori 100 years ago. I suppose some will call him racist, but the poem can be found in any Library amongst his works.

Let me share it with you and don’t forget it was written about 100 years ago.


THE MAORI’S WOOL


THE Maoris are a mighty race—the finest ever known;
Before the missionaries came they worshipped wood and stone;
They went to war and fought like fiends, and when the war was done
They pacified their conquered foes by eating every one.
But now-a-days about the pahs in idleness they lurk,
Prepared to smoke or drink or talk— or anything but work.
The richest tribe in all the North in sheep and horse and cow,
Were those who led their simple lives at Rooti-iti-au.

‘Twas down to town at Wellington a noble Maori came,
A Rangatira of the best, Rerenga was his name—
(The word Rerenga means a “snag”—but until he was gone
This didn’t strike the folk he met—it struck them later on).
He stalked into the Bank they call the “Great Financial Hell”,
And told the Chief Financial Fiend the tribe had wool to sell.
The Bold Bank Manager looked grave—the price of wool was high.
He said, “We’ll lend you what you need—we’re not disposed to buy.

“You ship the wool to England, Chief!—You’ll find it’s good advice,
And meanwhile you can draw from us the local market price.”
The Chief he thanked him courteously and said he wished to state
In all the Rooti-iti tribe his mana would be great,
But still the tribe were simple folk, and did not understand
This strange finance that gave them cash without the wool in hand.
So off he started home again, with trouble on his brow,
To lay the case before the tribe at Rooti-iti-au.

They held a great korero in the Rooti-iti clan,
With speeches lasting half a day from every leading man.
They called themselves poetic names—”lost children in a wood”;
They said the Great Bank Manager was Kapai—extra good!
And so they sent Rerenga down, full-powered and well-equipped,
To draw as much as he could get, and let the wool be shipped;
And wedged into a “Cargo Tank”, full up from stern to bow,
A mighty clip of wool went Home from Rooti-iti-au.

It was the Bold Bank Manager who drew a heavy cheque;
Rerenga cashed it thoughtfully, then clasped him round the neck;
A hug from him was not at all a thing you’d call a lark—
You see he lived on mutton-birds and dried remains of shark—
But still it showed his gratitude; and, as he pouched the pelf,
“I’ll haka for you, sir,” he said, “in honour of yourself!”
The haka is a striking dance—the sort they don’t allow
In any place more civilized than Rooti-iti-au.

He “haka’d” most effectively—then, with an airy grace,
Rubbed noses with the Manager, and vanished into space.
But when the wool return came back, ah me, what sighs and groans!
For every bale of Maori wool was loaded up with stones!
Yes—thumping great New Zealand rocks among the wool they found;
On every rock the Bank had lent just eighteen-pence a pound.
And now the Bold Bank Manager, with trouble on his brow,
Is searching vainly for the chief from Rooti-iti-au. :crying

Richard
01-11-2010, 04:16 PM
The players are a disgrace, without the "game" as an outlet most of them would be in prison for assault and murder.

That would probably be the most stupid, childish comment I have ever read on any forum.

DeSade
01-11-2010, 04:20 PM
Then you tell me where that aggression would be channeled?
Without this poor excuse for a sport they would be like pitbulls off the leash.

goodiesguy
01-11-2010, 04:28 PM
The HAKA annoys me.

I also refuse to sing the national anthem in maori and only sing the english part.

I'm not racist against maori's, i just wish they would stop shoving their culture down our throats and trying to say its our culture.

DeSade
01-11-2010, 04:30 PM
I think the entire anthem needs to be scrapped, its ridiculous for anyone that is not "christian" to sing God save anything.

goodiesguy
01-11-2010, 04:33 PM
I think the entire anthem needs to be scrapped, its ridiculous for anyone that is not "christian" to sing God save anything.

Now that you have said that. I will come clean.

I don't sing the national anthem at all and absolutely hate it

Speedy Gonzales
01-11-2010, 04:38 PM
The national anthem sucks a$$. It needs to be changed. If you don't like the haka or when they sing the anthem in Maori, don't watch it. Simple

goodiesguy
01-11-2010, 04:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcNhDstL4-k

Now THIS should be the National Anthem!

kahawai chaser
01-11-2010, 04:43 PM
I think the NZ Anthem was written by the Scottish, I recall on the news a while back. If so, then not really a NZ Anthem.

Zippity
01-11-2010, 04:51 PM
If you don't like the haka or when they sing the anthem in Maori, don't watch it. Simple

That sort of reply is childish and is a cop out :annoyed::annoyed:

DeSade
01-11-2010, 04:53 PM
hahah goodie, love that tune.

The Hitcher
01-11-2010, 05:04 PM
The players are a disgrace, without the "game" as an outlet most of them would be in prison for assault and murder.

Which you'd prefer it seems.

bob_doe_nz
01-11-2010, 05:06 PM
What about the All Black who beat his wife and got away with it...

Speedy Gonzales
01-11-2010, 05:07 PM
That sort of reply is childish and is a cop out :annoyed::annoyed:

Ah no. This thread is childish and useless / pointless

Zippity
01-11-2010, 06:25 PM
Ah no. This thread is childish and useless / pointless

If you don't like it, you don't have to read it - let alone post in it :clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

Now where have I heard that comment recently?

The Error Guy
01-11-2010, 07:23 PM
Personally don't mind the haka, I don't think its an arrogant bout, its supposed to a challenge and if some team feels challenged by it then obviously we did a good job.

each country has its own quirks and little customs that make them special and unique. love it or hate it it's probably here to stay, which in my opinion is not a bad thing.

Anthem on the other hand is pretty average. probably needs an update although I don't mind the maori part. I haven't seen many cases of maori culture being forced (main part being forced) down our throats. Haka and national anthem are the main ones. nothing wrong with that, we are multi cultral.

My 2c, don't care if you support it or not. we all have our own opinions and are suitably entitled to them

gary67
01-11-2010, 07:58 PM
I don't mind the haka if it is restricted to the Maori All Blacks as it is their culture. But the All Blacks are multi racial so it doesn't have a place unless all the other cultures represented are allowed to also do something :2cents:

Scouse
01-11-2010, 08:16 PM
Morris Dancing, perhaps

The Auckland Morris Dancing festivals.....

http://subsclubs.co.nz/

martynz
01-11-2010, 08:25 PM
Stephen Jones is an ignorant prat.
He accused the AB selectors of poaching the best players from various Pacific islands. Totally unaware that the players he was referring to were either born here or been resident since childhood.

xyz823
01-11-2010, 08:47 PM
I think you guys are all whiny bitches. How does it actually affect you?

I believe that the haka should be done like it is at schoolboy level, right up close and in the opponents face. It sends a challenge to the other team and gets the All Blacks or team or the team performing the haka psyched up.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PcmHqwP7Ow)or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tXvQ1aHeNk) right in front of me would have me trembling in my boots.

Or This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K-UKp9dDFM)

xyz823
01-11-2010, 08:48 PM
The HAKA annoys me.

I also refuse to sing the national anthem in maori and only sing the english part.

I'm not racist against maori's, i just wish they would stop shoving their culture down our throats and trying to say its our culture.


I agree with that, but you should be proud to sing our national anthem. It IS unique and gives us a sense of who we are.

Metla
01-11-2010, 09:15 PM
Big fan of the all blacks and rugby, But not the Haka, Its been pimped out way to much, everybody has been there and done it, Let it go.

Maybe break it out for the final of the world cup when/if we make it.

For the record I do change the channel when the haka is performed, by the All Blacks or anyone else. Same goes for the national anthem.Asking "god" to save me or this land is not who I am. My imaginary friends are much more metal.

Winston001
01-11-2010, 09:52 PM
Oh dear. I thought this haka story was put to bed 10 years ago. Remember - when the ABs in the face of European cries of intimidation, toned it down, removing the throat slitting gestures and the leap in the air. A pansy concession IMHO because its just theatre, not real life, but that's what happened.

The haka is misunderstood. Historically Kamate for example was a song of celebration and thanks, not a challenge. However today the haka has transformed into a challenge and its pointless to pretend otherwise.

I do get fed-up with people who object to Maori renaissance and say we should be "one people" etc. In reality NZ is a recently colonised nation of imported British culture. If we are to have our own identity it can only come from developing our own unique traditions - and Maori culture is there to be embraced.

Fifthdawn
01-11-2010, 11:02 PM
I'm pretty much sick of the haka, every time some one dies or there is a dispute or basically anything happens some one whips out a haka, and most of them are cringe-worthy attempts. In saying this the one that the AB's do is something quite special and it would be sad to see it disappear completely, I think it should become a rare display rather than an expected thing.

Snorkbox
01-11-2010, 11:19 PM
Does it count as racial discrimination if I refuse to buy brown bread but insist on buying white bread? Or is it just possibly a case of I know what I like?

Cicero
02-11-2010, 09:31 AM
Some say that the Maori culture is there to be embraced.

I wonder if we would like to point out the parts that we find admirable.

Perhaps Rob on. could lead the way,I hope I have left enough space.........

B.M.
02-11-2010, 09:37 AM
I’d like to see a “Challenged Team” respond with a “Brown Eye” or “Two Fingered Salute”.

Could be the makings of a really good game. :D

DeSade
02-11-2010, 09:53 AM
Some say that the Maori culture is there to be embraced.

I wonder if we would like to point out the parts that we find admirable.

Perhaps Rob on. could lead the way,I hope I have left enough space.........
{sarcasm}
I really like the culture of abuse they have towards their kids and people in general.

I love the culture that treats women as less than 2nd class

and lets not forget the culture that has then smoking and drinking themselves to death much faster than any other group

Last but not least, the culture of the gravy-train

Yes lets embrace it.....
{/sarcasm}

(not directed personally at Cicero, I just find the suggestion ridiculous)

Cicero
02-11-2010, 10:01 AM
{sarcasm}
I really like the culture of abuse they have to-wards their kids and people in general.

I love the culture that treats women as less than 2nd class

and lets not forget the culture that has then smoking and drinking themselves to death much faster than any other group

Last but not least, the culture of the gravy-train

Yes lets embrace it.....
{/sarcasm}

(not directed personally at Cicero, I just find the suggestion ridiculous)

My dear fellow,your conclusion was my point.

But I stand to be corrected by those who think we should embrace,what I assume are attributes that will be forthcoming.

Chilling_Silence
02-11-2010, 10:10 AM
I'm pretty much sick of the haka, every time some one dies or there is a dispute or basically anything happens some one whips out a haka, and most of them are cringe-worthy attempts. In saying this the one that the AB's do is something quite special and it would be sad to see it disappear completely, I think it should become a rare display rather than an expected thing.

Agreed, and with what Metla said.

I believe in some of the recent high-school girl mall-beatings, one of them thought it would be appropriate to whip out the Haka at some stage during the whole ordeal. Super ...

I like it's meaning, but still, I do wonder if it's been taken too far.

That said, other countries also have something similar, and we respectfully stand by and watch it, so why can't they do likewise? Maybe if the Haka was 15 minutes long then perhaps they could turn away and do their own pre-game warmups but it's not even 60 seconds worth yeah?

That raises an interesting point about the National Anthem. I agree that a lot of Maoris push "their culture" as "our culture", but still...
Same for saying you don't wanna ask God to save the queen. If you don't, that's cool, ask buddah or whoever else, no skin off my back.
Can you imagine trying to change the national anthem so every ethnicity and religion was happy? It'd be a disaster. The Athiests would say there is no god, christians would say theirs is the only god, buddists would go on about theirs and how all theirs should be recognized. Ain't gonna happen.

DeSade
02-11-2010, 10:26 AM
Agreed, and with what Metla said.

I believe in some of the recent high-school girl mall-beatings, one of them thought it would be appropriate to whip out the Haka at some stage during the whole ordeal. Super ...

I like it's meaning, but still, I do wonder if it's been taken too far.

That said, other countries also have something similar, and we respectfully stand by and watch it, so why can't they do likewise? Maybe if the Haka was 15 minutes long then perhaps they could turn away and do their own pre-game warmups but it's not even 60 seconds worth yeah?

That raises an interesting point about the National Anthem. I agree that a lot of Maoris push "their culture" as "our culture", but still...
Same for saying you don't wanna ask God to save the queen. If you don't, that's cool, ask buddah or whoever else, no skin off my back.
Can you imagine trying to change the national anthem so every ethnicity and religion was happy? It'd be a disaster. The Athiests would say there is no god, christians would say theirs is the only god, buddists would go on about theirs and how all theirs should be recognized. Ain't gonna happen.

Thats the point I think Chill
The anthem needs to mention the country NOT religion of any sort.
I would prefer it being completely in English and be a celebration of this country.

Chilling_Silence
02-11-2010, 10:31 AM
I got thinking about that though, as I was writing my last post. How do you have something like that which is all-empowering and not racially / religiously exclusive? What do you reckon it would say? I've got no ideas :-/

DeSade
02-11-2010, 10:54 AM
Me either actually but I am not a song writer.
We have many talented people in this country that could write a great song for it.
Have a national competition or something.

prefect
02-11-2010, 11:04 AM
I just dont like the haka period, never have, dont now, never will.
Its carried out so much it looks stupid to me, haka for everything now even weddings and funerals.
When teams beat us after a haka like the Wallabies it makes the haka cheap. Its not representative of my culture my folks came to Nelson in 1840 from England thats my culture.