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Snorkbox
28-10-2010, 06:11 PM
I know you can buy Gelignite in NZ but Dynamite?

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=121668&fm=psp,nwl

Hence I can't really believe anything I read.

It is true to say that both contain Nitroglycerine but other ingredients differ.

SurferJoe46
28-10-2010, 06:30 PM
Gelignite is the operative in the dynamite. It is the nitroglycerin that has oozed and escaped from the diatomaceous earth usually because of gravity.


Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae. It is used as a filtration aid, as a mild abrasive, as a mechanical insecticide, as an absorbent for liquids, as cat litter, as an activator in blood clotting studies, and as a component of dynamite.

If you scrape some of it up with your fingernail, you can make some neat sparks and a little popping noise on your fingertips if you rub it with another finger.

Gelignite is kinda telling you that you haven't been turning the cases of dynamite regularly. It may be too little, too late to make the dynamite as good as it should be again.

And of course, gelignite is very unstable nitroglycerin, especially if it is 'aged' or sun-baked, into what we commonly call: GREEN DYNAMITE, in that it actually turns green when it's showing you that's it's a little angry and might spontaneously -- well, you get the picture.

The naval guns that use fixed ammunition need to have their rounds turned too. The powder bag, non-fixed ammunition is H-E in a pure silk bag that can also leak explosive chemicals if they aren't turned too.

Much more than that I shouldn't say, as I have a pyrotechnical license for Class A/H-E and that allows me to buy and use explosives for the demo work I used to do.

SP8's
28-10-2010, 06:35 PM
and the odd bank job ... eh SJ :devil:

Snorkbox
28-10-2010, 06:45 PM
You are talking to a Guy that was in the Ordnance Corps in the NZ Army.

The propellant in those bags you refer to was Cordite or may have been a granulated powder. We certainly used Cordite in the cartridges here which looked similar to uncooked spaghetti.

In the shells I don't believe Dynamite was ever used but rather RDX or TNT.

And there is a difference between Dynamite and Gelignite.

Dynamite and Gelignite do both contain Nitroglycerine but there the diffence ends.

You can set fire to cordite when not confined and also TNT and it does not explode.

The Error Guy
28-10-2010, 08:01 PM
Nitroglycerin is percussive, pretty lucky the crate didn't go off when it was being moved, especially as the sticks were sweating, best idea would have been to leave them alone and get the disposal crew in to the property.

Would have been an interesting story if they had gone off in the blokes car on the way there.

Snorkbox
28-10-2010, 08:25 PM
Agreed. Nitro is percussive but then if you had a stick of Gelignite or Dynamite that was fresh rather than whatever years old and not leaking Nitro then you can hit it with a hammer with no serious results.

It's why you need detonaters, cordtex and fuses for example.

The Error Guy
28-10-2010, 08:36 PM
Agreed. Nitro is percussive but then if you had a stick of Gelignite or Dynamite that was fresh rather than whatever years old and not leaking Nitro then you can hit it with a hammer with no serious results.

It's why you need detonaters, cordtex and fuses for example.

Or so the guy with a hammer would hope!

Scouse
28-10-2010, 08:50 PM
RE: Would have been an interesting story if they had gone off in the blokes car on the way there.
Or in the rental trailer in which the cop car was towing the explosive to the quarry - as shown on tnight's tv.

prefect
29-10-2010, 02:41 AM
Dynamite just sounds better for news shock, tv1 said it was gelly, the panic was it was sweating.
He could have used the gelly for trout fishing they have rivers in Southland dont they?
I sure wouldnt have surrendered it, I would have blown up something a brother has a blasting permit.

SurferJoe46
29-10-2010, 05:19 AM
You are talking to a Guy that was in the Ordnance Corps in the NZ Army.

The propellant in those bags you refer to was Cordite or may have been a granulated powder. We certainly used Cordite in the cartridges here which looked similar to uncooked spaghetti.

In the shells I don't believe Dynamite was ever used but rather RDX or TNT.

And there is a difference between Dynamite and Gelignite.

Dynamite and Gelignite do both contain Nitroglycerine but there the diffence ends.

You can set fire to cordite when not confined and also TNT and it does not explode.

We always called the exudite in the powder rooms 'gelignite', which we had to gently scrape off the decks and racks from under the powder bags and fixed ammo shelves too. It would crackle and pop and create spark - but using wooden scrapers and brass non-sparking tools, we seem to have survived.

The first ship I was on only had 50 Cal, but the next was a destroyer and had 6x50's and 5-38's on it, but we were required to carry ammo for the New Jersey and some other powder-bag guns for other ships in VietNam. We never got to see the igniter and transfer discs, nor did we even carry any.

True about that cordite, and pre- any military experiences, I used to pull the heads off the rounds for my 7.62 NATO M1 Garand and just burn the spaghetti for fun - although that didn't last long as those AP-rounds got to be expensive. No case pressure - no bang-y

When I had that 'Tanker-ized M1', I could get cases of surplus WW2 Armor Piercing ammo for 2 each, and although they were Czech 1946 dated, I never had a hang- or misfire. One thing they had was acid primers and I had to really scrub the barrel out with hot, soapy water and then Hoppy's No.9.

Maybe 'gelignite' is transliterated as different products in the US and NZ.

Funny - but my Class A-H/E license was a clerk's mistake. I only needed a pyrotechnician's license to set off some fireworks in about 1964 or so, and it was a lifetime license that I only answered a few questions to get.

Then years later when I was working at a hospital in LA, they needed me to get a Ramset gun permit for LA County, and I guess I filled out the wrong form and passed the test and got upgraded to a full-on H-E license for everything up to but not including: Atomic Weapons. :waughh:

I found the license useful when I was mixing my own nitromethanol/alcohol fuel for RC glow plug engines for friends and selling it for a 'slight' profit. I mixed it up in 55-gallon drums and had to keep the gallon carboys of nitro in a refrigerator in the garage, chilled behind the garage.

For a while, Disneyland needed me as a powder monkey since the Italian team that was shooting off the fireworks in Anaheim, lost their US/International license and I was just rubber-stamping their work.

It was very interesting, but the gig only lasted four weeks until the papers were straightened out and the Italians got their work permits reestablished. Great pay - though what they were doing was nothing I even recognized!

Ya know, those powder bags for the 12-inchers on the dreadnought BB's were all made 'way before the Korean 'Conflict" and they were just nasty! Some were losing their hand-sewn seams and were very misshapen by 1969. I would have hated working as a loader in any turret they were in.

But I think THE MOST dangerous piece of non-armament were the used, disposable cartridges from the self igniting OBA's. Carrying an accidentally armed (dropped more than a foot/12 inches) 5- or 3-inch shell was nowhere as nasty as going to the fantail and ejecting one of those hot OBA cans. Ka-BOOM! when they hit the water!

I got another word-of-mouth, sporadic job of powdering old, tired or calcified water wells in the farms around the county. I'd create a small charge from 2 oz's of green nitro suspended in a pipette and some 100-200 g/f PC* and set it 200+ feet into a well and pop the walls 'ever-so-gently' to clean it out and reestablish some decent water flow again - maybe.

Farmers used to be able to buy PC, squibs and dynamite, but not since 911, when everything got tight, AFT-wise. (Tell me why Alcohol, Firearms & Tobacco are all regulated by the same federal division!)

I was making some pretty decent side-money doing that, pre-911, and it was sometimes good - but many times bad, and the farmers knew it - but they had to get water for their crops without absolutely needing to drill a new well first. It was a crapshoot that didn't always pay off for them - but I always got paid. Up front!

Except for some PC and stick work for that demo-company I worked for, I haven't really used or needed to use my license for many years now. I still get an occasional call, but mostly I am retired from my real job, which wasn't as an H-E powder monkey.

I still have all my fingers, toes and nose.

* The US uses G/F, but youse guys prolly use: G/M, which is a factor of about 5 for a burn/speed difference.

So - use 50 to 250 G/F to = 10 to 50 G/M

prefect
29-10-2010, 07:05 AM
I would loved to see those 16" guns on those Jersey class battleship in action woo hoo one village destroyer coming right up. Take this you commie ****s
I guess the hard bit was ensuring there was no burny bits left when you laid down the bags of powder for the next round.
The photies seemly of the ship moving sideways is not kosher its the rippling of the water from shock wave of speeding bullet

SurferJoe46
29-10-2010, 01:19 PM
I would loved to see those 16" guns on those Jersey class battleship in action woo hoo one village destroyer coming right up. Take this you commie ****s
I guess the hard bit was ensuring there was no burny bits left when you laid down the bags of powder for the next round.
The photies seemly of the ship moving sideways is not kosher its the rippling of the water from shock wave of speeding bullet

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The breech was opened and a blast of compressed air was shot through the barrel to remove any pieces of silk that might be left - but that's why they used silk for it's total consumption in the explosion.

In peacetime firing, the cyclic rate was one round every fifteen minutes so there was no way that something burning could be left inside the breech.

Under combat conditions, those rules were discarded and it was FWR - or Fire When Ready, or in some cases in a rough sea, then it was "Fire As She Bears" or when the roll was correct at that moment to firing or the barrel could be pointed to the target again.

We were positioned about 2 miles directly under the barrels of the New Jersey and she was indeed side-moving about 1/2 her beam every round. The muzzle blast, although we were not really in the flame of it could be felt (I think I could, anyway) during each broadside.

Actually, as formidable as the weapons were, this was just an exercise to burn off some old ammunition and get some combat pay for the crew.

Every time she fired one round, it was a new Cadillac El Dorado going out the barrel.

These big ships were built very low in the water and that's for platform stability and the ability to sit still in the water.

That's why they always flooded down the lower compartments when they fired - for extra mass, depth and stability when she was training her guns. They weren't called dreadnoughts* for nutthin'.

* "Fear Nothings"

Interesting to note - I swear I could see the 3 inch projectiles going toward the horizon if I stood directly behind the gun platform when it fired. I wasn't supposed to be there - but HEY - we did a lot of things we weren't supposed to do.