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SurferJoe46
15-10-2010, 05:00 PM
Does anyone on F1 remember any of the details of The Great Depression of the 1930's?

Just wondering since US school History books don't go into much detail about the rest of the world in that time period.

How bad was it in NZ - did you have grandparents in it or are any old enough to remember it themselves?

Was NZ a totally agrarian society in those days and it wasn't so bad?

We all know the highly industrialized nations took it pretty hard, but I've never seen any references about it in places like NZ and Australia.

Just planning for The Great Depression Redux and hoping youse guys make out OK. .

.

The Error Guy
15-10-2010, 06:12 PM
not sure myself, we studied bits of the world and some of NZ, can't remember much. these might help

http://www.nzine.co.nz/features/guinz25-50_part25.html

http://www.nzine.co.nz/features/guinz25-50_part11.html

The 80's stock market was a big pinch, hit quite a few people pretty hard but not a depression as such.

tutaenui
15-10-2010, 07:07 PM
I did not go through the depression myself but I certainly saw its effect on my parents with their frugal mend and make do, never throw anything out less it might be one day useful life style which they maintained their whole life. My stepfather could not find work at his chosen trade (carpenter) so he spent his time touring the lower North Island in an Austin 7 buying and trading old gold and jewellery. I don't know the details but I got the impression he made a reasonable living out of this. During the second world war he made his fortune by owning a jewellery store next to the American services club in Wellington.

Lawrence
15-10-2010, 07:37 PM
Remember my old man saying as a teenager in the depression he was given a .22 Rifle and 2 cartridges by my Grandfather and if he did not come back with 2 rabbits he got a kickup the arse.

Things were hard here also

The Error Guy
15-10-2010, 08:02 PM
I did not go through the depression myself but I certainly saw its effect on my parents with their frugal mend and make do, never throw anything out less it might be one day useful life style which they maintained their whole life. My stepfather could not find work at his chosen trade (carpenter) so he spent his time touring the lower North Island in an Austin 7 buying and trading old gold and jewellery. I don't know the details but I got the impression he made a reasonable living out of this. During the second world war he made his fortune by owning a jewellery store next to the American services club in Wellington.

Oh yes, the woolshed is full of so much cr8p!

also my folks would say they'd set the table (during the war) by running around it, my grandmother used to say, if the Germans come now at least we'll have a spoon, if the Germans come now, at least we'll have fork etc. must have been tough as a kid.

prefect
15-10-2010, 09:07 PM
The depression starting 1929 was felt very hard in NZ. A lot of unemployed people went to work camps.
People actually went hungry it must have been very severe because the old people always spoke about it.
Went into WW2 and then wool boom in early 50s it was still not forgotten about.
Now days its ****** WINZ this WINZ that no self help.

SurferJoe46
16-10-2010, 02:15 AM
Oh yes, the woolshed is full of so much cr8p!

also my folks would say they'd set the table (during the war) by running around it, my grandmother used to say, if the Germans come now at least we'll have a spoon, if the Germans come now, at least we'll have fork etc. must have been tough as a kid.

I never thought of Germany being such a viable threat to youse guys - we were a large ocean apart from Mainland Europe. I know that Japan was only on the scene a little later and thought they were a bigger threat - but I guess that hadn't reared it's head during the Depression.

Looks like the Depression hit NZ pretty bad too. That kinda amazes me as I've always thought that NZ was a sheep-farm area and could be fairly self-sufficient and almost immune to the things I've read about the situation.

Farmers in the US did pretty good and there were even some subsidies from the Feds to keep the farms going - fuel and tools and such for the tractors, tires and such for transportation and even a new car allowance for the family to 'grease' the wheels of the farmer's productivity.

pctek
16-10-2010, 06:09 AM
The depression starting 1929 was felt very hard in NZ.
Went into WW2
Now days its ****** WINZ this WINZ that no self help.

Perhaps another war would suit you?

Lawrence
16-10-2010, 06:41 AM
There are quite a few in NZ that did not think we were under threat here in the Second World War
Not only did we have American troops based here (mainly for the Pacific theatre) but had quite a few large Airfields constructed that could handle large bombers to halt the Japanese invasion

Not many also know we had German raiders mining our Harbours with ships sunk and prisoners of War taken

http://is.gd/g3wMU This is Audio about the German Raiders

The Japanese were also laying mines here and quite a few mini subs were seen here

My father was in the next contingent to go to war when it ended and was sent to Japan in "J" force after the War
One of the interesting things he came back with was Japanese currency which was to be used in NZ and other South Pacific Countries when the Japanese had overrun us

NZ life during the Second world War was totally about the war effort,anyone stepping out of line or contentious objectors were jailed or held in internment camps

Lawrence
16-10-2010, 06:48 AM
http://is.gd/g3xX1- This is the link that works

prefect
16-10-2010, 07:40 AM
Perhaps another war would suit you?
That totally uncalled for.
How come you can get away with being a total **** here and the moderators do nothing?

Paul.Cov
16-10-2010, 11:00 PM
My parents were young adults during the depression and WW2 years.

They have always shown a very frugal streak, which has lasted pretty much all these years.
Dad would have seemed tighter than a Scotsman. Nothing would ever get thrown away.
Used nails would be hammered straight and kept for re-use.
Any and every old bolt and nut would go into a jar.

The people in todays throw-away society have no idea at all what a decent depression can be like, and no idea about hardship.

Who ever bothers to darn the holes in their socks any more?
Many folk never even wear out their clothes now. They buy their jeans with cheap and nasty pre-worn bleeching effects on them from the factory, and throw them away at the end of the season, regardless of their state.

It's been said that war time led to a reduced rate of heart attacks, due to petrol rationing forcing people to walk more. A decent depression would have a similar effect on our fat-ass society, and may do many of us a lot of good (myself included).
Sure, there's hardship and suffering, but also a decent taste of true reality for practically everyone.
Our wealth is an illusion, and sooner or later we'll get a harsh lesson about our debts and the highly volatile 'value' of a dollar.

It'll remind us of the value of a community, and to appreciate the basics of health and family a whole lot more. Work may be viewed as a privelege instead of a chore.

limepile
17-10-2010, 06:39 AM
Originally Posted by pctek
Perhaps another war would suit you?

Pointing out that a lot of people have no understanding of personal responsibility is no call to be insulting.
A lot of the skills that people had and used to get them through the hard times have been lost or forgotten, replaced by an attitude that WINZ will take care of them. Where would these people be if there were no WINZ ?

leonidas5
17-10-2010, 08:29 AM
My Dad left school aged 14 in 1930 as the Depression here began to really bite. Found work in a grocery store for 5 shillings a week ( that's 50c). He supplied the bike for deliveries and paid it off at 2/6 (25c) a week. Gave his mother 2/- (20c). At 20 got an apprenticeship with a baker and earned 15/- a week until called up in 1940. Mum worked in her father's bakery in small rural town and was not paid but got bed and food. Man-powered in 1941 to Bells tea factory in Dunedin.
They never forgot.
It was dinned into me that to get on one needed skill or trade qualifications.
Never buy anything but your home on credit, save a little each week for bad times can and will happen again. Never discard, socks will be darned, clothing recycled, collars turned on shirts, fix what you can by neighbourliness, swap fruit and veges, go rabbit shooting for "underground Fowl". Illegal to sell wild rabbit here.

Many NZ men in work camps for a pittance in remote county with pick and shovel and wheelbarrow eg the Summit Road in Christchurch was built during the depression this way.

Very tough times that we have never experienced in the last 70 years.

pctek
17-10-2010, 09:57 AM
How come you can get away with being a total ****

I'm a ***? What do you call dragging beneficary bashing into a discussion on the depression then. You brought up wars.

I bet loads of people then would have been grateful for the dole instead of starving on the street.

Digby
17-10-2010, 10:10 AM
It was not the sharemarket crash that caused the great depression.
But the trade war that followed it, every country put up tariffs and trade slowed.

Now we have idiots like Ben Bernancke starting currency wars, trying to get Americans to borrow more money and export more due to a lower dollar.

And now every other major country is doing the same !

And Timothy Geithner is too chicken to label the Chinese as currency manipulators

The scary thing is that I think it was really only the start of the Second World War that got the world out of the depression putting men back to work in factories and the army etc.

Lets hope that the next G20 meeting in Korea comes up with something good.

mikebartnz
17-10-2010, 10:39 AM
That totally uncalled for.
How come you can get away with being a total **** here and the moderators do nothing?
Have you ever thought your overall atitude attracts it.
Commie bashing, beificiary bashing, I hate drivers that don't drive to my standard etc. Do you get the idea.

prefect
17-10-2010, 10:42 AM
My Dad left school aged 14 in 1930 as the Depression here began to really bite. Found work in a grocery store for 5 shillings a week ( that's 50c). He supplied the bike for deliveries and paid it off at 2/6 (25c) a week. Gave his mother 2/- (20c). At 20 got an apprenticeship with a baker and earned 15/- a week until called up in 1940. Mum worked in her father's bakery in small rural town and was not paid but got bed and food. Man-powered in 1941 to Bells tea factory in Dunedin.
They never forgot.
It was dinned into me that to get on one needed skill or trade qualifications.
Never buy anything but your home on credit, save a little each week for bad times can and will happen again. Never discard, socks will be darned, clothing recycled, collars turned on shirts, fix what you can by neighbourliness, swap fruit and veges, go rabbit shooting for "underground Fowl". Illegal to sell wild rabbit here.

Many NZ men in work camps for a pittance in remote county with pick and shovel and wheelbarrow eg the Summit Road in Christchurch was built during the depression this way.

Very tough times that we have never experienced in the last 70 years.
Underground fowl lol, yeah it was sure no joke by looking at my Grand parents faces when they talked about it.
My family probaly not so bad off as others they grew tobacco and hops smoking and drinking piss does not decline much in a down turn.

Battleneter2
17-10-2010, 10:44 AM
Farmers in the US did pretty good and there were even some subsidies from the Feds to keep the farms going - fuel and tools and such for the tractors, tires and such for transportation and even a new car allowance for the family to 'grease' the wheels of the farmer's productivity.

US farms are "still" heavily subsidised (Protected) as a result of the great depression to the tune of something like $20bn a year. If US Farmers were forced to compete in a true free trade environment like NZ farmers many would go to the wall.

prefect
17-10-2010, 10:49 AM
US farms are "still" heavily subsidised (Protected) as a result of the great depression to the tune of something like $20bn a year. If US Farmers were forced to compete in a true free trade environment like NZ farmers many would go to the wall.

The thing since the late 1890s is that NZ farmers have always been efficient.While we pioneered cool miking sheds Europeans were going out to Daisy with a stool and a bucket.
The only thing that can kill our efficient primary production are import protections.
One glorious day the protections might be all gone and a true capitalist competitive system can work on a level playing field.

Paul.Cov
17-10-2010, 11:16 AM
The scary thing is that I think it was really only the start of the Second World War that got the world out of the depression putting men back to work in

Yeah, war is perverse in many ways.
You take your able bodied, fit, young productive people and send them off to be slaughtered.
Meanwhile everyone who remains 'at home' is expected to work extra hard to keep the country productive and to support the war effort.

Once the war is over your have reduced unemployment due to the fact that a whole bunch of formerly able bodied workers are now deceased thanks to the war, and that there is added demand for work in the rebuilding phase of things.

From a gene pool perspective it is also interesting... send off your fit and strong, meanwhile your weak and sickly remain home to breed.
Perhaps mankinds violent history has served to make us far less than we could have been... if we could just have been more cooperative and less posessive throughout history.

Billy T
17-10-2010, 03:02 PM
My parents were young adults during the depression and WW2 years. They have always shown a very frugal streak, which has lasted pretty much all these years. Dad would have seemed tighter than a Scotsman. Nothing would ever get thrown away. Used nails would be hammered straight and kept for re-use. Any and every old bolt and nut would go into a jar.

My father was the same, anything usable was saved. he was very versatile and had a good set of tools, some from my grandfather and some acquired along the way, mostly second hand and most of which I now use. He repaired and resoled shoes, fixed home appliances, repaired the car including an engine rebuild, designed and built an extension for the house and anything else he needed to do. We even had a orchard in our suburban back yard with tamarillos, grapes, lemons, oranges, peaches, nectarines, plums, and an apple tree with three different varieties grafted on in addition to the original. He was also a multi-instrumental musician and a good artist.

I inherited his practical skills and all his tools, boxes of nails, screws and bolts, and a box of assorted 'stuff' that 'might come in handy' one day. I can fix just about anything, but I have a black thumb and everything I ever planted just shrivelled up and died!

They had to do it through the depression years and then through WWII, and they never lost the habit. I don't think he was all that unique either, many people had to adapt to survive and you don't know what you can do until you are forced to try.

In today's disposable society it is just as easy to toss something that's broken or call in a tradesman even for little jobs. My son is pretty much hopeless at anything other than music, but Mrs T taught him to cook and bake, so he can certainly feed himself.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

pctek
17-10-2010, 06:04 PM
My father ..., anything usable was saved.


In today's disposable society it is just as easy to toss something that's broken or call in a tradesman even for little jobs.


Plenty of people who don't throw things away around still.
But yeah, a lack of them that can actually fix things.

That may partly be because most things aren't designed to be fixed now - you are supposed to be buying a new plastic widget every 5 minutes.

Even we, who between us can fix most things have discovered that.

Even we techs - we don't FIX them as such - we swap out parts.

Winston001
17-10-2010, 08:24 PM
Yes Joe, the Great Depression had a huge impact on New Zealand and its echos still ring today. My mother as a child on a farm remembers the tramps coming to the door looking for a bit of work and some food. There were work gangs on the roads employed by the government. Much of NZ's pine forests were planted as a result of the Depression.

My parents grew up in austerity and lived that way all of their lives. Never borrow, do not waste, all the things posted above, and their children learned those lessons.

Personally I have always felt I was a child of the Depression because it was commonly mentioned in our home and we lived as though another one was just around the corner.

prefect
17-10-2010, 09:07 PM
Yes Joe, the Great Depression had a huge impact on New Zealand and its echos still ring today. My mother as a child on a farm remembers the tramps coming to the door looking for a bit of work and some food. There were work gangs on the roads employed by the government. Much of NZ's pine forests were planted as a result of the Depression.

My parents grew up in austerity and lived that way all of their lives. Never borrow, do not waste, all the things posted above, and their children learned those lessons.

Personally I have always felt I was a child of the Depression because it was commonly mentioned in our home and we lived as though another one was just around the corner.

Amazing isnt it? that a crash in usa impacted straight away in NZ and was just as harsh as the usa.
I got the impression and I could be wrong (never know they are all looking at the potatoes from underneath) they thought the depression was was worse than WW2. Our family didnt lose any members to the Germans, Italians, Hungarians, Rumanian's and Japanese. So that might be why.

victorcharlie
18-10-2010, 01:36 PM
Here's a link to old NZ newspapers [from 1800s to 1950's]
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast

Haven't seen any articles on the Depression yet , only been reading NZs relationship with South Pacific Islands in the 1800s.