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ruup
31-08-2010, 04:26 PM
So how much is this going to cost the each tax payer? and what returns can we expect?

ruup

:mad:

Arnie
31-08-2010, 04:47 PM
$400 per person less any recoveries, talking about net $6mil = $150 per person.

Snorkbox
31-08-2010, 04:52 PM
$1.6 billion divided by population of NZ 4 million = $4,000

Quite a number of the population do not pay taxes anyway as they are at school or less than school age and therefore are not expected to work. Then there are others who are on a benefit but do pay taxes on that.

Don't expect a return on the taxpayers investment.

Cicero
31-08-2010, 05:15 PM
Right cock oop.

Nomad
31-08-2010, 05:19 PM
Dunno why they have this gaurantee scheme at all. It's stupid. Someone said if I went to a casino can I sign up :groan: Why put money in a bank if I can take on more risk to an extent and still be eligible for the protection. I have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

ruup
31-08-2010, 05:32 PM
SCF announcement "good news"
An Allan Hubbard supporter has told Newstalk ZB this morning's announcement about South Canterbury Finance should be good news

31 August 2010
An Allan Hubbard supporter has told Newstalk ZB they have been told the announcement this morning on South Canterbury Finance will be good news.

Albert Makary - a consultant obstetrician gynaecologist in Timaru - is a longtime supporter and friend of the Hubbards.

"I saw Mr Hubbard this morning and he said basically - that hopefully it will be good news."

The boss of South Canterbury Finance says the company only has itself to blame for its financial woes.

It's about to make an announcement on its future.

The company has until the end of the day to find an investor or face receivership.

Chief executive Sandy Maier says the company has gone off the rails over the years and then it got caught up in the global financial crisis.

GOOD NEWS!!

************************************************** ****

So are there a lot of Board members and CEO's looking for new jobs this afternoon?

And where is Mr English going to borrow the money from? and at what cost?

Battleneter2
31-08-2010, 05:34 PM
$1.6 billion divided by population of NZ 4 million = $4,000

Quite a number of the population do not pay taxes anyway as they are at school or less than school age and therefore are not expected to work. Then there are others who are on a benefit but do pay taxes on that.

Don't expect a return on the taxpayers investment.

Its not going to be 1.6b, thats the mainstream media sensationalising.

The Government will re-coup probably close to half of that.


Still a huge cost, but not doing it would cost the economy a ton more.

somebody
31-08-2010, 06:40 PM
Unfortunately this is the best outcome possible - bailing it out would have simply put off the inevitable, and at least this gives certainty to everyone (including the taxpayer).

R2x1
31-08-2010, 06:44 PM
In honour of the fact that it is a peculiarly SI kerfuffle, I trust that Cicero, his heirs and assigns, and their neighbours are going to pay triple tax rates for the next 50 decades or so.
;)

Digby
31-08-2010, 07:14 PM
Quote from RUPP

SCF announcement "good news"
An Allan Hubbard supporter has told Newstalk ZB this morning's announcement about South Canterbury Finance should be good news

31 August 2010
An Allan Hubbard supporter has told Newstalk ZB they have been told the announcement this morning on South Canterbury Finance will be good news.

Albert Makary - a consultant obstetrician gynaecologist in Timaru - is a longtime supporter and friend of the Hubbards.

"I saw Mr Hubbard this morning and he said basically - that hopefully it will be good news."

Yes I heard that this morning.
Shows how out of touch Mr Hubbard was.
As if some one was going to buy it on the last day and lose 1 billion the next day !

Sandy Maeir said on the radio tonight that Mr Hubbard put some of his own money into SCF earlier this year to prop it up.

And he said that he made many loans of doubtful quality (probably just trying to help people)

Its all very sad.

Nomad
31-08-2010, 08:00 PM
They should be like Dubai and introduce criminal convictions and barricade peopel leaving the country.

Well if I lose my money else I am not covered, cannot see why the finc industry is exempt to an extent, well it was for the bad times in the past which is supposed to expire in October to be renewed. I wish they cancel the thing.

Tough bikkies - that's life.
Such is if a person gets injured, dies, business goes sour.

I don't care if they are father christmas. People want performance and want a transparent system and people should know if they know jack off maybe they should not put their money there. So what do we get for a father christmas? Even if it wasn't for the scheme everyday citizen to help them out even if they have made mistakes and continue to make more mistakes even if that is genuine good effort.

martynz
31-08-2010, 08:56 PM
Campbell Live suggested that the existence of the Govt. guarantee may have actually encouraged SCF to take greater risks.

prefect
01-09-2010, 06:58 AM
**** happens.

pctek
01-09-2010, 07:04 AM
Its not going to be 1.6b, thats the mainstream media sensationalising.


Really?

Erayd
01-09-2010, 08:39 AM
Well if I lose my money else I am not covered, cannot see why the finc industry is exempt to an extent, well it was for the bad times in the past which is supposed to expire in October to be renewed. I wish they cancel the thing...The guarantee is there in order to ensure liquidity in the financial system, so that businesses can obtain credit. If the guarantee wasn't in place, nobody would invest in finance companies, banks etc. No investment means no capital available for lending. Here's why the guarantee is needed:

No liquidity in the financial system means no credit for businesses who need it to undertake large or long-term projects.

No credit means businesses will not undertake projects larger than what they have enough existing capital to cover, and will not take on projects with a long payback time.

No large or long-term projects means a massive reduction in available jobs, and many businesses will go bankrupt.

Huge reduction in job availability and many businesses going bankrupt means wide-scale unemployment.

Wide-scale unemployment means massive tax hikes to pay for all the unemployed people.

Wide-scale unemployment, many bankrupt businesses, and no credit means NZ will be unable to compete in a global economy, particularly when all the competitors *do* have access to credit.

Unable to compete in the global economy means no net income for NZ.

No net income means foreign debt spirals out of control, the government can no longer afford to pay for basic services, and NZ effectively becomes a third-world country.All that is why the guarantee is a necessity, particularly as every other country of significance in this area has a similar guarantee scheme in place.

Just because you have no direct involvement with a company such as South Canterbury Finance doesn't mean that its future has no impact on you. While the guarantee money is being used to cover SCF's debts, the actual purpose of that money is to ensure the survival and proper functioning of the wider national economy.

Nomad
01-09-2010, 08:46 AM
The guarantee is there in order to ensure liquidity in the financial system, so that businesses can obtain credit. If the guarantee wasn't in place, nobody would invest in finance companies, banks etc. No investment means no capital available for lending. Here's why the guarantee is needed:

No liquidity in the financial system means no credit for businesses who need it to undertake large or long-term projects.

No credit means businesses will not undertake projects larger than what they have enough existing capital to cover, and will not take on projects with a long payback time.

No large or long-term projects means a massive reduction in available jobs, and many businesses will go bankrupt.

Huge reduction in job availability and many businesses going bankrupt means wide-scale unemployment.

Wide-scale unemployment means massive tax hikes to pay for all the unemployed people.

Wide-scale unemployment, many bankrupt businesses, and no credit means NZ will be unable to compete in a global economy, particularly when all the competitors *do* have access to credit.

Unable to compete in the global economy means no net income for NZ.

No net income means foreign debt spirals out of control, the government can no longer afford to pay for basic services, and NZ effectively becomes a third-world country.All that is why the guarantee is a necessity, particularly as every other country of significance in this area has a similar guarantee scheme in place.

Just because you have no direct involvement with a company such as South Canterbury Finance doesn't mean that its future has no impact on you. While the guarantee money is being used to cover SCF's debts, the actual purpose of that money is to ensure the survival and proper functioning of the wider national economy.

I still wish they cancel the thing.
It's life.

If they wanna improve they can do it from another way like improving the financial system.

Personally I put my money into low interest low risk while my bank has this thing. I wish my own bank can do without this thing. If I lose my money, that's my problem. I take the responsibility.

Erayd
01-09-2010, 09:05 AM
It's life.That's true - and it would be nice to see those responsible sort it out themselves - but the sad fact of the matter is that they can't, and leaving them to stew would do far more harm to our economy.


If they wanna improve they can do it from another way like improving the financial system.Nice words, but no real substance. If you'd like to see an alternative method of safeguarding our economy, what do you propose? 'Improving the financial system' sounds good, but means nothing.


Personally I put my money into low interest low risk while my bank has this thing. I wish my own bank can do without this thing. If I lose my money, that's my problem. I take the responsibility.And that's good - clearly you're an ethical person who believes in individual responsibility. Sadly, the national and global economies involve more than just your own finances.

Nomad
01-09-2010, 09:37 AM
They should be the same as Hanover and others...

If it was the past, there would be no gaurantee. People lived with it in the past too.

There are far less ideal countries elsewhere.

Snorkbox
01-09-2010, 10:04 AM
The Government of the day has, in the past, bailed out the Bank of NZ and also Air New Zealand. I don't think that finished up costing the taxpayers much in the long run though and both Companies are still alive today.

On the other hand the SFC has been downgraded in credit ratings twice in the last couple of years by Standard and Poors so you can't tell me people did not see this coming.