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Snorkbox
21-08-2010, 10:18 PM
Hi folks,

I have read this story several times and I can't make sense of the figures.

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=118822&fm=psp,tsf

angry
21-08-2010, 10:27 PM
Hi folks,

I have read this story several times and I can't make sense of the figures.

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=118822&fm=psp,tsf

they ran that survey and claim 40% support for their agenda and we never heard or saw anything about said survey.

I would have to say that said results are at the least, majorly flawed.

95% of the parents with school age children i know of have NO INTREST WHAT SO EVER in their children wasteing their time on a dead and useless language.

wmoore
22-08-2010, 12:14 AM
Once again bad reporting from NZcity

From RNZ


Some 38 percent of New Zealanders support the idea that the teaching of te reo Maori in
schools should become compulsory. A higher proportion of females than males support
the idea (42 percent as against 35 percent. Only a small proportion (four percent) of
respondents could not make up their minds and said ‘don’t know’
The support for compulsory teaching of te reo Maori in schools is highest among those in
the 15-34 year age group at 50 percent, and lowest among those in the age group 55
years and over, at 24 percent. ‘This reflects the very considerable change that has taken
place in the last 30 years’, Research New Zealand Director Emanuel Kalafatelis said.
Not surprisingly the support for compulsory teaching of te reo Maori in schools was
highest among Maori and Pacific People at 71 percent, compared with 32 percent for
New Zealand Europeans.
There was no difference of note by area, which shows that the support for the compulsory
teaching of te reo Maori in schools is national rather than regional.
The Research New Zealand poll of 500 people aged 15 and over was conducted by
telephone between 4 and 12 August. The maximum margin of error is +/- 4.9 % (at the
95% confidence level). The data has been weighted to ensure it is an accurate
representation of New Zealand's general population. The poll was not taken on behalf of
any organization, but as part of Research New Zealand’s monthly survey of attitudes and
opinions.

angry
22-08-2010, 12:39 AM
Once again bad reporting from NZcity

From RNZ

at 38% thats a little better, I would like to see all the questions asked, in the order they were asked in, to see how agenda loaded they were.

also the sample volume 500 seems, wrong should be 420 or 840 = equaling .01 or .02 of the population.

to be considered vaguly indacative should be .1 = 4200 at a minimum.

ubergeek85
22-08-2010, 12:46 AM
Chief Executive Glenis Philip-Barbara believes it shows a maturing of attitudes

So, if 90% had opposed it, they are just 'immature'? That's a bit subjective, isn't it? Personally, if I had kids, I wouldn't want them being forced to learn a dead and useless language.

Agenda-pushing at its finest.

R2x1
22-08-2010, 01:38 AM
Statistics are dodgy at best, but when quoted in support of fringe agendas, are frequently way out beyond fantasy. Lunatics squandering tax dollars again.

WalOne
22-08-2010, 05:23 PM
95% of the parents with school age children i know of have NO INTREST WHAT SO EVER in their children wasteing their time on a dead and useless language.

Or coming to terms with their own language for that matter?

:devil

angry
22-08-2010, 05:42 PM
Or coming to terms with their own language for that matter?

:devil

The language of this country is ENGLISH the english language is THIS COUNTRYS LANGUAGE OF BUSINESS.

If a youth or adult attains a resonable standard of enuciation and comprehension, the next step if they wish to proceed any further with languages is to learn a language relevant to ociania/australisia.

This would be 1 of the major, chineese languages, korean, japanese, russian, malay, Thai, vietnamese, or one of several more MAJOR toungs of the greater reigon.

why would you waste valuable education time and money on a language that is fluently spoken by less than .1m people. Particularly when the scholars and activists of that pathetically small group, can not even agree on what the words mean, or how they should be enunciated.

Beuracrats and activists sucking on the public tit, are behind this gross waste of time, and taxpayer money

The Five Whys ? Used in conjunction with "Is this the only reason" for each answer until "Only reason's" are exhausted

Metla
22-08-2010, 05:42 PM
Funny enough when I was at school I resented all efforts of teaching the language, Now that I have kids, I'm quite happy for them to be taught it during their time at primary school, and if after that its their choice then good for them.

angry
22-08-2010, 06:05 PM
Funny enough when I was at school I resented all efforts of teaching the language, Now that I have kids, I'm quite happy for them to be taught it during their time at primary school, and if after that its their choice then good for them.
Metla.

Thats your choice.

The activists and beuracrats running this agenda for THEIR personal gain, miss one vital point. Which you so neatly iterate in your school experience.

COMPELL ME AND I WILL RESIST.

Nothing will agrivate the majority of the population faster, than legally ramming another dying culture down their childrens throats.

Private schools just love this stupidity, it does wonders for their enrolment stats and profits.

Soon this country will be like australia, where parents will frequently comitt serious crimes to obtain the funding required to keep their children OUT of state schools.

Metla
22-08-2010, 06:41 PM
Education is compulsory.

angry
22-08-2010, 06:50 PM
Education is compulsory.

Yes,

you just remade you point about "youth Resentment".

You must have had a tiring week, and a plesant weekend.

Hows the well thing going.

John H
22-08-2010, 10:58 PM
The language of this country is ENGLISH the english language is THIS COUNTRYS LANGUAGE OF BUSINESS.


angry, sometimes you can be a total wally and a prat. Maybe that is why you are angry all the time.

There are three official languages in this country. English, Māori, and NZ Sign Language.

I am with Metla on this one. I have been in hundreds of meetings over the last 20 years where Māori is the first language; indeed over the past decade I have often been the only Pākehā in a meeting. To be monolingual like me is to be at a great disadvantage.

We never got the opportunity to learn Māori at school - only French and Latin (which I didn't do), and I have found it impossible to learn another language in adulthood. Yet I see my grandchildren learning Māori as a normal part of their school curriculum, and it is brilliant. They enjoy it, and they share it with me - particularly the waiata.

Why does it not surprise me that you support the racist regime in Israel?

Digby
22-08-2010, 11:12 PM
I used to be really against children learning Maori.
Now I am not so much against it, if it is just an hour or so a month.

Thos 40% need to realise that Maori is a very small language with not many words, it is not written, so it has very little literature, and it does not have words for many feelings and expressions that other languages do.

It is really only useful for ceremonies and tourism.

I would like to see them do a poll on what people think about Maori people learning how to speak and write English properly. (especially the younger ones) Many of them that you see on tv etc can't even put a coherent sentence together.

It always amazes me, that if they interview an African, or Indian child on tv their diction is very good.

Poor education is why the is a very big Maori prison population.
They need to value education, like most other cultures of the world do.
And they need to get away from this victim mentatilty that they cannot learn western concepts in western schools. Just about every other race in the world can.

And before anyone says I am racist, most of my friends are Maori, and my 4 children are half caste.

xyz823
22-08-2010, 11:18 PM
Poor education is why there is a very big Maori prison population.
They need to value education, like most other cultures of the world do.
And they need to get away from this victim mentatilty that they cannot learn western concepts in western schools. Just about every other race in the world can.

Spot on, they try to blame us pakeha for them not wanting to learn and put in the effort required to get a good solid education.

GameJunkie
22-08-2010, 11:39 PM
I used to be really against children learning Maori.
Now I am not so much against it, if it is just an hour or so a month.

Thos 40% need to realise that Maori is a very small language with not many words, it is not written, so it has very little literature, and it does not have words for many feelings and expressions that other languages do.

It is really only useful for ceremonies and tourism.

I would like to see them do a poll on what people think about Maori people learning how to speak and write English properly. (especially the younger ones) Many of them that you see on tv etc can't even put a coherent sentence together.

It always amazes me, that if they interview an African, or Indian child on tv their diction is very good.

Poor education is why the is a very big Maori prison population.
They need to value education, like most other cultures of the world do.
And they need to get away from this victim mentatilty that they cannot learn western concepts in western schools. Just about every other race in the world can.

And before anyone says I am racist, most of my friends are Maori, and my 4 children are half caste.


well said that man :thumbs:

kahawai chaser
23-08-2010, 12:37 AM
they ran that survey and claim 40% support for their agenda and we never heard or saw anything about said survey.

I would have to say that said results are at the least, majorly flawed.

95% of the parents with school age children i know of have NO INTREST WHAT SO EVER in their children wasteing their time on a dead and useless language.

It's not dead - still spoken on TV and maraes at funerals. How is maori language useless? You mean it's not global...like chinese?

Snorkbox
23-08-2010, 02:57 AM
I have no objection to Maori language being taught wherever. But then should all those that live in the USA be taught American Red Indian and if so which tribe should it be?

Or all Canadians should learn French maybe?

The purpose of language is surely to communicate.

kahawai chaser
23-08-2010, 11:27 AM
I used to be really against children learning Maori.
Now I am not so much against it, if it is just an hour or so a month.

Thos 40% need to realise that Maori is a very small language with not many words, it is not written, so it has very little literature, and it does not have words for many feelings and expressions that other languages do.

It is really only useful for ceremonies and tourism.

I would like to see them do a poll on what people think about Maori people learning how to speak and write English properly. (especially the younger ones) Many of them that you see on tv etc can't even put a coherent sentence together.

It always amazes me, that if they interview an African, or Indian child on tv their diction is very good.

Poor education is why the is a very big Maori prison population.
They need to value education, like most other cultures of the world do.
And they need to get away from this victim mentatilty that they cannot learn western concepts in western schools. Just about every other race in the world can.

And before anyone says I am racist, most of my friends are Maori, and my 4 children are half caste.

I think it will take several years before maori will transform to an ideal education scenario. I recall in the 70's many maori were dropping out from college and not even attending, and it appears to be still occuring.

kahawai chaser
23-08-2010, 11:40 AM
Listening to late talk back on radio the other week, an elderly Irish lady (71 years she said) bemoaned the fact that she could speak Irish/Gaelic nor could her parents. I think she mentioned it was partly due to the British (not sure how).

But it suggested that learning/knowing one's native language (or their ancestors) may be important for identity/spiritual (or whatever), rather than just for communication - as so many people seem to emphasis that aspect. For example most NZ's would rather learn money making/employment global languages than to ever bother with Maori - and perhaps that cannot be helped.

kahawai chaser
23-08-2010, 11:53 AM
I have no objection to Maori language being taught wherever. But then should all those that live in the USA be taught American Red Indian and if so which tribe should it be?

Or all Canadians should learn French maybe?

The purpose of language is surely to communicate.

Well is it not a form of identity as well? For African tribes or Hindu/Punjab/etc?

USA Government use tribal names on their army helicopters, maybe as a token gesture, but I think they have the bureau of Indian affairs - but probably stops short of promoting native languages. Though I think small scale languages/culture is preserved, one involving the actor Robert Redford in Canada. Probably through his sundance film festival. Maybe the USA Government should run a public poll about native language schemes.

John H
23-08-2010, 11:55 AM
The British did the same thing in Ireland, Wales, and NZ regarding suppressing indigenous languages. I suppose they did it in Scotland as well.

In Wales they used 'the Welsh Not' - "The Welsh Not or Welsh Note was a piece of wood, inscribed with the letters "WN", that was hung round the necks of children who spoke Welsh in some schools in the 19th century. The "not" was given to any child overheard speaking Welsh, who would pass it to a different child if overheard speaking Welsh. By the end of the day, the wearer of the "not" would be given a lashing. The idea of the "not" was to discourage pupils from speaking Welsh, at a time when English was considered by some to be the only suitable medium of instruction." - Wikipedia.

Māori was suppressed here as well - you can look at the Waitangi Tribunal Report on Te Reo Māori to see how it was done here. Basically kids were bashed for speaking Māori, and schools had to use English as the primary method of instruction or they were not funded by government.

As you say in your post, there are other reasons for speaking a language than commerce. The point of the report though (the report quoted in the first post of this thread) was that there has been a gradual change in the percentage of people, particularly amongst the young, who approve of the teaching of te reo Māori in schools, and the trend suggests that this will continue to increase until debates like this one will diminish/cease as us old farts die off. Some people need to get out more.

John H
23-08-2010, 12:01 PM
Well is it not a form of identity as well? For African tribes or Hindu/Punjab/etc?

USA Government use tribal names on their army helicopters, maybe as a token gesture, but I think they have the bureau of Indian affairs - but probably stops short of promoting native languages. Though I think small scale languages/culture is preserved, one involving the actor Robert Redford in Canada. Probably through his sundance film festival. Maybe the USA Government should run a public poll about native language schemes.

We are fortunate here in that whilst there are different iwi dialects, all Māori speakers understand a broadly similar language. A deeper sense of iwi identity etc can be taken care of by learning your own dialect. Arguments raised by people like Snorkbox about what should happen in America (or Australia - similar situation to America - or even Papua New Guinea), are irrelevant here because there is basically one Māori language.