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Cicero
16-08-2010, 09:57 AM
What is to be done about these #'s



As at the end of April, over 365,000 working aged people were receiving welfare benefits - one in eight of the working age population. Of those, around 75,000 were on the dole, 66,000 were receiving a sickness benefit, 96,000 an invalid’s benefit, 108,000 the domestic purposes benefit, 6,000 a widow’s benefit, 3,000 an emergency benefit, and over 2,000 teenage mothers were receiving an emergency maintenance allowance (the sole parent benefit available for girls who are too young to qualify for the DPB). While these figures included the 13,800 partners of people receiving one of the main benefits, there were an additional 14,000 people under the age of 18 and over 65 who were also receiving full benefits, bringing the total number of welfare recipients to 370,000.

The Welfare Working Group wanted to know how many of those on benefits had been there in the long-term. They found 171,000 had spent more than five of the past ten years on a benefit: 12,000 on the unemployment benefit, 24,000 on the sickness benefit, 65,000 on the invalid benefit, 53,000 on the domestic purposes benefit, 1,000 on the widow’s benefit, 3,000 on an emergency benefit, and 13,000 partners. Almost 60 percent – 100,000 - had spent nine or more years of the last ten years on a benefit.

Nomad
16-08-2010, 10:35 AM
while some may report long termers at 0.3%, nominally there are quite of a bit those eh ...

well imo, you cannot encourage them, many of them won't take it up, they go to a winz meeting just to maintain the dole. like anything if you want them to change, you force them within boundaries. i mean attending a 1hr seminar every 3 or 6 months is a walk around the park.

some of the smarter ones (not all) will try to get on the sickness benefit so they monitored less.

i hope those stats are those who have been on it for "total days" of the 10yr period, ie., 5yr worth of total days within the past 10yrs. cos some may withdraw from it and re-enrol .. to fudge the system.

Nomad
16-08-2010, 10:47 AM
i think that nz is not ready to just blacklist the dole if you been on it for a while. not sure if you can alloc some jobs just for them like mail sorting and things like that. cos some other people may want it.

so maybe investing money into compulsory courses (like winz) for all long termers to attend like 3 days a week every week might be a way. and make it interactive about their current situation, not just turn up and bums on seats and go home with no homework. and after a while compulsory structured courses they need to enrol into. if they don't it's cut.

what's the age of children is it still 13 or something, well they are in high school .. supposedly anyway, make it 6yrs cos they should be in primary school.

kahawai chaser
16-08-2010, 10:59 AM
Reading our local courier last week, some community/social workers said that some solo mothers were receiving in the "700's" per week in South Auckland There are training schemes generally for unskilled/uneducated young solo's, but I think the Govt. also has to curb the effect of these high weekly payments/subsidies. It was good to see that some young mothers were getting involved and realized the errors of their ways...but perhaps should be reduced or prevented initially...

Perhaps Govt can ...

- Advertise nationwide the perils (e.g future nationwide welfare costs, abortions, family violence, fatherless families, etc) of young and at risk/dysfunctional family relationships on TV every week for several months.
- Maybe include food vouchers - but setting up networks with food suppliers in lieu of cash (I think this is done in USA).
- Beneficiaries to do voluntary/paid/trained work - where better than in Govt departments... maybe WINZ of all avenues
- Fund family care/creche units for kids of solo parent and that the parent pursue a recognized training/course - and learning progress is tracked by WINZ as well as the training faculty. I know WINZ make unemployed do courses - as I have been there (work in track, work agencies, etc) - but not much emphasis for solo parents or sickness beneficiaries

Paul.Cov
16-08-2010, 11:00 AM
There's a bit over a million people working in NZ (paying taxes). Add into the totals above the retired folk who are also sucking on the tax dollars, and it seems incredible that there is any cash left for health, roads, infrastructure, etc.

Something has to change. Problem for the politicians is that messing with welfare will lose you the vote of every bludging beneficiary... so the politicians sit on their hands until the country is in crisis before they do what has to be done.

National has to do it, coz labour will only spend more of what we don't have on the folks who do nothing.

Nomad
16-08-2010, 11:04 AM
in the many years ago, winz courses are useless, there is not tailoring. it's like sit there and they talk thru topics 1 - 10 and after so many days now you look for a job, bring the newspapers in and use the internet, and only if you need help ask, 2 days, the week is over and you are on yourself.

it doesn't address the issue the person may have individually. so some people just use it as another hurdle to do it and then just take the dole. if they cannot do it then contract it out ... it's the same old ... after 6 months gone, they make you do the same seminar for a week perhaps then another 6 months ... and it repeats.

kahawai chaser
16-08-2010, 11:08 AM
i hope those stats are those who have been on it for "total days" of the 10yr period, ie., 5yr worth of total days within the past 10yrs. cos some may withdraw from it and re-enrol .. to fudge the system.

Good point - as may not be continuous 10 years, as some beneficiaries may have restarted/reapplied a couple of times on the benefit - such as seasonal farm/orchard workers...

rob_on_guitar
16-08-2010, 11:22 AM
I reckon the child support thing needs a real good look, I look after my daughter more than the mum, yet Im paying $300 every pay to the silly cow, yet she works, receives grants and student allowance.
Although I pay mine to keep the peace, men just have no say in anything, I mean my first phone call was from IRD saying pay this much by this date or face a fine of $2000.
Awesome.

Cicero
16-08-2010, 11:48 AM
I reckon the child support thing needs a real good look, I look after my daughter more than the mum, yet Im paying $300 every pay to the silly cow, yet she works, receives grants and student allowance.
Although I pay mine to keep the peace, men just have no say in anything, I mean my first phone call was from IRD saying pay this much by this date or face a fine of $2000.
Awesome.

Saw this couple the other day,they couldn't keep their hands off each other,I should have told them to have a word with old Rob,about what to expect in a couple of years down the track.

The professionals of course laugh in the face of $2000 fines.They get it the other way round.

angry
16-08-2010, 01:57 PM
I reckon the child support thing needs a real good look, I look after my daughter more than the mum, yet Im paying $300 every pay to the silly cow, yet she works, receives grants and student allowance.
Although I pay mine to keep the peace, men just have no say in anything, I mean my first phone call was from IRD saying pay this much by this date or face a fine of $2000.
Awesome.

You made it, pay what the system says, or use your head and reduce the ammount you are paying.

The balls in your corner.

prefect
16-08-2010, 02:00 PM
Its the ball is in your court, not corner.

rob_on_guitar
16-08-2010, 02:20 PM
You made it, pay what the system says, or use your head and reduce the ammount you are paying.

The balls in your corner.

You cant get it reduced, apparently i earn too much, but that was besides the point, they are working off he said/she said type of thing which is quite disturbing.

angry
16-08-2010, 02:59 PM
You cant get it reduced, apparently i earn too much, but that was besides the point, they are working off he said/she said type of thing which is quite disturbing.

change the way you get paid. If you'r a white male on paye, with out control of how much paye you pay, they are going to slaughter you.

take control of how much paye you pay, they will be difficult about it but in the end your payments and paye must align.

at the end of every tax year, claim a rebate for over/extra child support payment.

you are entitled to do this, but they will make it difficult.

a lot of people are paying a little more in FBT, but MUCH less in child support.

They can be extremly difficult to deal with because of the: ethnicity, gender, and personal agendas, of so many of their staff.

WalOne
16-08-2010, 04:39 PM
National has to do it, coz labour will only spend more of what we don't have on the folks who do nothing.

Interesting comment by Paul Holmes in last Sunday's Herald:


If it had not been for the useless, drunken, ill-tempered and stupid economic thug, Robert Muldoon, we might have had a scheme that would have made us one of the smartest outfits in the world. Muldoon was the worst creature, the troll from the filthy swamps, who ever got control of this country.

This week, a friend gave me a copy of a brilliant piece written by Brian Gaynor and published in the New Zealand Herald almost exactly three years ago. Gaynor regards Muldoon's abandonment of Labour's far-sighted and ahead-of-its-time superannuation scheme, set up in 1974, as the worst decision taken by any New Zealand government in the past 40 years.

Muldoon campaigned on abolishing the scheme in the 1975 election. He said it would turn us into a Soviet clone. Hence the Cossacks on television. The Yacht Squadrons reeled in horror.

It worked a treat. Rowling was gone and, true to his word, Muldoon abolished the scheme some weeks later. But what stupidity.

Gaynor works out that if we had stuck with the scheme, New Zealand would now be "an Antipodean Tiger".

The superannuation scheme would conservatively be worth $240 billion. In other words, we would have savings enough to swim in. We would be flooded with money.

I'm a National voter, and I fully agree with Holmes' comments. Labour did have it right, but we threw it away.

:annoyed: :mad:

Cicero
16-08-2010, 05:35 PM
Interesting comment by Paul Holmes in last Sunday's Herald:


If it had not been for the useless, drunken, ill-tempered and stupid economic thug, Robert Muldoon, we might have had a scheme that would have made us one of the smartest outfits in the world. Muldoon was the worst creature, the troll from the filthy swamps, who ever got control of this country.

This week, a friend gave me a copy of a brilliant piece written by Brian Gaynor and published in the New Zealand Herald almost exactly three years ago. Gaynor regards Muldoon's abandonment of Labour's far-sighted and ahead-of-its-time superannuation scheme, set up in 1974, as the worst decision taken by any New Zealand government in the past 40 years.

Muldoon campaigned on abolishing the scheme in the 1975 election. He said it would turn us into a Soviet clone. Hence the Cossacks on television. The Yacht Squadrons reeled in horror.

It worked a treat. Rowling was gone and, true to his word, Muldoon abolished the scheme some weeks later. But what stupidity.

Gaynor works out that if we had stuck with the scheme, New Zealand would now be "an Antipodean Tiger".

The superannuation scheme would conservatively be worth $240 billion. In other words, we would have savings enough to swim in. We would be flooded with money.

I'm a National voter, and I fully agree with Holmes' comments. Labour did have it right, but we threw it away.

:annoyed: :mad:

I was sent that Gaynor article from a pal in OZ,some time ago.
It beggars belief how our masters can be so ignorant at our expense.

Gobe1
16-08-2010, 05:49 PM
change the way you get paid. If you'r a white male on paye, with out control of how much paye you pay, they are going to slaughter you.

take control of how much paye you pay, they will be difficult about it but in the end your payments and paye must align.

at the end of every tax year, claim a rebate for over/extra child support payment.

you are entitled to do this, but they will make it difficult.

a lot of people are paying a little more in FBT, but MUCH less in child support.

They can be extremly difficult to deal with because of the: ethnicity, gender, and personal agendas, of so many of their staff.

What???
You suggest Rob pay more tax to reduce the amount of child support he is paying. That is rediculous.
You said it right, men on paye are held by the short and curlies

angry
16-08-2010, 07:08 PM
What???
You suggest Rob pay more tax to reduce the amount of child support he is paying. That is rediculous.
You said it right, men on paye are held by the short and curlies

no I am not saying he pay more tax in TOTAL.

I am saying he pay, less paye, less child support, and a little fbt.

ie

paye 300 child sup 300 =

instead.

paye 225 child 225 fbt 70 =

these are square numbers but you can see what i am saying.

total gross income stays same, gross tax around same, disposable income goes up, lifestyle inproves,

then instead of increasing salary in the future, just increase fb

Snorkbox
16-08-2010, 07:15 PM
I see that compulsory retirement saving is on the agenda again.

We had that once but Muldoon took it away after I had been putting in for some 15 years. I never did get a refund for some reason.

I have never voted National since then and I'm not ever planning on doing it again either.

angry
16-08-2010, 07:33 PM
I see that compulsory retirement saving is on the agenda again.

We had that once but Muldoon took it away after I had been putting in for some 15 years. I never did get a refund for some reason.

I have never voted National since then and I'm not ever planning on doing it again either.

aye, same here,

i will never vote for hairyleggs's queer mates so im left with green and winnie, so i genrally dont bother.

Snorkbox
16-08-2010, 07:46 PM
Those that don't bother get anything they deserve and have no right to complain in my opinion.

angry
16-08-2010, 09:25 PM
Those that don't bother get anything they deserve and have no right to complain in my opinion.

you dont vote national because they robbed, you so you vote labour in revenge.

what ever they do you vote for them, pointless.

I dont vote for national because they robbed me.

I wont vote for the red queers.

the greens are to far left, and not in touch with reality.

that leaves, winnie.

I think his lot have run out of legs.

given the above, what should i do with this vote?

in your oppinion.
:)

qazwsxokmijn
16-08-2010, 09:27 PM
given the above, what should i do with this vote?

in your oppinion.
:)
Ignore it and don't waste your energy with it.

That's what I've been doing the last two years I've been able to vote. Why vote? Any party you vote for will just screw you in the same place, only difference being the objects that are used.

Steven
16-08-2010, 09:35 PM
I see that compulsory retirement saving is on the agenda again.

We had that once but Muldoon took it away after I had been putting in for some 15 years. I never did get a refund for some reason.

I have never voted National since then and I'm not ever planning on doing it again either.

It started 1 April 1975 and was terminated just after the 1975 election.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10465138

Snorkbox
16-08-2010, 10:58 PM
Last election I voted NZ First. Apparently not enough agreed with me however I will continue to vote the way I see it.

Time to start a new party methinks.

Snorkbox
16-08-2010, 11:05 PM
It started 1 April 1975 and was terminated just after the 1975 election.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10465138

It was before that as I remember the increase being an extra 1/6d or 6d in the pound so it was before decimal currency.

Cicero
16-08-2010, 11:12 PM
you don't vote national because they robbed, you so you vote labour in revenge.

what ever they do you vote for them, pointless.

I don't vote for national because they robbed me.

I won't vote for the red queers.

the greens are to far left, and not in touch with reality.

that leaves, winnie.

I think his lot have run out of legs.

given the above, what should i do with this vote?

in your opinion.
:)

Vote Act.

angry
17-08-2010, 12:55 AM
Vote Act.

rodney is the flip side of hone or v v, they both have a place in our political landscape, but both are to far to the respective left and right for me.


unless you class hone as maori radical right, then they would both be too far to their respective rights, either way, not me.

be like a jew in the last german pre war election voting for adolf.

Cicero
17-08-2010, 08:58 AM
rodney is the flip side of hone or v v, they both have a place in our political landscape, but both are to far to the respective left and right for me.


unless you class hone as maori radical right, then they would both be too far to their respective rights, either way, not me.

be like a jew in the last german pre war election voting for adolf.

Act stands for free enterprise,freedom of choice and small government.

Snorkbox
17-08-2010, 09:02 AM
Act stands for free enterprise,freedom of choice and small government.

Also they seem to have a little division in the ranks at the moment for some reason.

Gobe1
17-08-2010, 09:04 AM
no I am not saying he pay more tax in TOTAL.

I am saying he pay, less paye, less child support, and a little fbt.

ie

paye 300 child sup 300 =

instead.

paye 225 child 225 fbt 70 =

these are square numbers but you can see what i am saying.

total gross income stays same, gross tax around same, disposable income goes up, lifestyle inproves,

then instead of increasing salary in the future, just increase fb

FBT i take it you are saying Fringe Benefit tax??
Start a new party:thumbs:

Cicero
17-08-2010, 09:09 AM
Also they seem to have a little division in the ranks at the moment for some reason.

There is always a tendency to lose sight of the ball in politics,power tends to corrupt.

The principles remain,which will always remain hidden to fence sitters.

pctek
17-08-2010, 09:11 AM
A sole parent says she has lost a sixth of her bodyweight because she has not been able to eat properly since the Government tightened access to training subsidies for beneficiaries last year.

Sara, a 35-year-old West Auckland mother in her second year of an applied science degree at Unitec, gets $517 a week in welfare but needs $668 a week to pay rent, drive to her classes and run a home for herself and her 12-year-old daughter - a shortfall of $151 a week.

Her doctor advised her to go to the Waitakere office of Social Development Minister Paula Bennett because her weight had dropped from 59kg to just under 50kg since early last year as a result of her not being able to afford food.
Ms Bennett's office made an appointment for her with Work and Income's Westgate manager, but the agency could come up with only an extra $4 a week.

The Herald supplied her full details to Ms Bennett and to Work and Income's head office in Wellington, which confirmed that she is receiving her "full and correct entitlement".
Beneficiary advocate Pam Apera said cases like Sara's were common and she was fielding a growing number of calls from beneficiaries who could see no way out except suicide.

Ms Apera said she could not see anything that could be cut in Sara's weekly spending. She does not smoke and has not bought an alcoholic drink since last year. She survives only by economising on food.

Income
* DPB + Temporary Additional Support (net of repayments to Work and Income for benefit advances) - $289.86 pw
* Accommodation supplement - $125.00 pw
* Family support (one child aged 12) - $86.00 pw
* Disability allowance - $16.46 pw
TOTAL - $517.32 pw

Fixed costs
* Rent (2.5-bedroom flat in West Auckland) - $295.00 pw
* Petrol (to Unitec Mt Albert 5 days pw + hospital visits etc) - $90.00 pw
* Debt repayments (credit card + HP for child's clothes & shoes) - $50.00 pw
* Power - $38.00 pw
* Child's bus home from intermediate school - $27.00 pw
* Phone/internet (required for study) - $26.00 pw
* Parking (Unitec) - $12.00 pw
* Medical costs (fixed weekly payment to friendly GP) - $10.00 pw
* Water bill - $10.00 pw
* Fines (no WOF or rego on car - still can't afford WOF) - $10.00 pw
TOTAL - $568.00 pw

Net deficit before food - $50.68 pw
Deficit allowing $100 for food - $150.68 pw

rob_on_guitar
17-08-2010, 11:20 AM
so she is earning an average wage and still cant figure it out, imagine if she had to earn it

Battleneter2
17-08-2010, 11:56 AM
A sole parent says she has lost a sixth of her bodyweight because she has not been able to eat properly since the Government tightened access to training subsidies for beneficiaries last year.

Sara, a 35-year-old West Auckland mother in her second year of an applied science degree at Unitec, gets $517 a week in welfare but needs $668 a week to pay rent, drive to her classes and run a home for herself and her 12-year-old daughter - a shortfall of $151 a week.

Her doctor advised her to go to the Waitakere office of Social Development Minister Paula Bennett because her weight had dropped from 59kg to just under 50kg since early last year as a result of her not being able to afford food.
Ms Bennett's office made an appointment for her with Work and Income's Westgate manager, but the agency could come up with only an extra $4 a week.

The Herald supplied her full details to Ms Bennett and to Work and Income's head office in Wellington, which confirmed that she is receiving her "full and correct entitlement".
Beneficiary advocate Pam Apera said cases like Sara's were common and she was fielding a growing number of calls from beneficiaries who could see no way out except suicide.

Ms Apera said she could not see anything that could be cut in Sara's weekly spending. She does not smoke and has not bought an alcoholic drink since last year. She survives only by economising on food.

Income
* DPB + Temporary Additional Support (net of repayments to Work and Income for benefit advances) - $289.86 pw
* Accommodation supplement - $125.00 pw
* Family support (one child aged 12) - $86.00 pw
* Disability allowance - $16.46 pw
TOTAL - $517.32 pw

Fixed costs
* Rent (2.5-bedroom flat in West Auckland) - $295.00 pw
* Petrol (to Unitec Mt Albert 5 days pw + hospital visits etc) - $90.00 pw
* Debt repayments (credit card + HP for child's clothes & shoes) - $50.00 pw
* Power - $38.00 pw
* Child's bus home from intermediate school - $27.00 pw
* Phone/internet (required for study) - $26.00 pw
* Parking (Unitec) - $12.00 pw
* Medical costs (fixed weekly payment to friendly GP) - $10.00 pw
* Water bill - $10.00 pw
* Fines (no WOF or rego on car - still can't afford WOF) - $10.00 pw
TOTAL - $568.00 pw

Net deficit before food - $50.68 pw
Deficit allowing $100 for food - $150.68 pw

All looks about right unless one wants to nit pick. 1 income and welfare families do it very hard poor buggers.

This is not just a NZ problem however, but small comfort.

Nomad
17-08-2010, 12:19 PM
$500 for doing nothing :eek:
why get work :confused:
do we just give her more than the avg wage then? that the solution.

many would work and get $500 and then solve their own problems.
i bus, i can use internet at school if i cannot afford it, well studylink doesn't help me for infringement fines and finance companies ... GP? Don't they have student health - greatly subsidised than a normal GP. What about living with others. Well students to rent a whole flat to themselves even a studio, can pretty expensive going eh .... Oh .. I am a uni student and i want to rent a whole house with a internal access garage and drive to uni every morning, :lol: for a couple of yrs now working, I have never driven to work apart from 1 day which there is a (1) free carpark that we can request when I went skiing straight after work but now don't bother cos the traffic. I can bus home, shower, eat before I drive up..

Cicero
17-08-2010, 12:43 PM
$500 for doing nothing :eek:
why get work :confused:
do we just give her more than the avg wage then? that the solution.

many would work and get $500 and then solve their own problems.
i bus, i can use internet at school if i cannot afford it, well studylink doesn't help me for infringement fines and finance companies ... GP? Don't they have student health - greatly subsidised than a normal GP. What about living with others. Well students to rent a whole flat to themselves even a studio, can pretty expensive going eh .... Oh .. I am a uni student and i want to rent a whole house with a internal access garage and drive to uni every morning, :lol: for a couple of yrs now working, I have never driven to work apart from 1 day which there is a (1) free carpark that we can request when I went skiing straight after work but now don't bother cos the traffic. I can bus home, shower, eat before I drive up..

Never enough for our resident do gooders and losers.

Nomad
17-08-2010, 01:02 PM
Sell the car as she cannot maintain it. The 12yr old is old enof for public transport, ever heard of school buses?

Get out of her rented place, find somewhere closer and nearer to public transport, get something smaller, cheaper maybe even an apartment if she can walk to school.

Not sure about getting a boarder - that's counted as income right and might affect her entitlements.

While the 12yr is at school, she can use the free campus computers for internet which is already paid for. Use Student Health. Man, I even used Student Dental. At home she can just use MS Word and type her assignment up, bring back books from the library. When I was a student, uni had internet, but at the halls of residence, it wasn't connected to the LAN, nor did it have dialup, so we had no internet unless we paid for our own phoneline and then paid for our own ISP. Most students didn't even have a computer.

pctek
17-08-2010, 01:15 PM
I knew that would start a rant.
Somewhere smaller and cheaper? What's cheaper in Auckland? Had a look at rents lately?

And it's no like she is sitting on her bum - she is studying. I'd say that means she wants a decent job and the ability to get off her benefit once she's finished. Geez, give her a chance.........

SolMiester
17-08-2010, 01:20 PM
I reckon the child support thing needs a real good look, I look after my daughter more than the mum, yet Im paying $300 every pay to the silly cow, yet she works, receives grants and student allowance.
Although I pay mine to keep the peace, men just have no say in anything, I mean my first phone call was from IRD saying pay this much by this date or face a fine of $2000.
Awesome.

Nothing against you Rob, but really, I find it astounding that so many couples have children out of marriage. Its just too easy to walk away. 2000 teenages having children?..***, they should be made to adopt if you ask me, they are UNABLE to look after themselves let alone bring up a baby..
Nothing you can do about invalids or sickness though I think some sickness bene are just a scam, cant stop DPB for current bene, which leaves unemployed.
If there are no job, there are no jobs, however anyone who isnt working after a 1 year is NOT doing enough to find a job in my option. I dont care if you need training, need to move area or the job isnt to your liking!

prefect
17-08-2010, 01:48 PM
Useless ***** she gets more money than I pay myself and I support a non working wife and 2 kids.
She must be blonde not to work out she needs to find cheaper rent out of town maybe move to a town in Central North Island.
Dumb ****.
Is she a widow? doubt it where is father of kids? lots of unanswered questions the press make me sick even reporting someone who is given their cheques for free at a rate higher than the minimum wage

WalOne
17-08-2010, 01:49 PM
All looks about right unless one wants to nit pick. 1 income and welfare families do it very hard poor buggers.

This is not just a NZ problem however, but small comfort.

It's not about nit picking, it's about living within your means. Where this person has come off the rails is,


W+I payment has already been eroded by debt (the amount not stated),
Weekly expenses include credit card and HP,
Weekly expenses include repayment of a fine.

While my sympathies are with her, debt repayments should be no concern of anybody else. While the State has made sure the appropriate funds are there as a safety net, it may still be possible for her to consolidate those expenses with a loan. However, I suspect this has already been looked into and the most W+I can come up with is $4 a week.

:(

angry
17-08-2010, 01:58 PM
Act stands for free enterprise,freedom of choice and small government.

also vindictive and overly agressive sentencing, (putting more of the wrong people in prison for longer) they deal with the problem only by punishing the alleged offender.

The have no intrest in rectifiying the root causes of the problem, which is why their justice policys fail and they will never get real power.

They make all this sensationalist noise about being tough on alleged crime.

Have they got the guts do a few simple Things in the law portfoilio that will have a major effect. EG:

0.000 drink drive alcahol limit.

raise drinking age back to 20 or 21.

Which within 18 months would free 30% plus of existing court time and speed up the court turnaround times radically.

raise tobacco purchasing age to 20 or 21.

raise driving age to 18 the basic new school leaving age.

The two above would radically reduce healt and acc costs, quickly.

raise voting age back to 20 or 21. to stop labour buying the youth vote as in the student loans free intrest deal.

No, because if they said they would do any of these basic simple things that need doing, they would not get the vote to power.

Every election hyde goes on this sansationalist get tough on crime rave, is transparent and booring.

the electorate has woken up to twinkel toes.

angry
17-08-2010, 02:00 PM
FBT i take it you are saying Fringe Benefit tax??
Start a new party:thumbs:

fbt, fringe benifit tax, yes.

prefect
17-08-2010, 02:18 PM
Hyde good guy, I like his get tough on crooks thinking. He was given up for dead in Epers a few years ago when polls showed the scum sucking commie greens in front, he never gave up.
The guys got guts I admire him for going on dancing with the stars.

Snorkbox
17-08-2010, 02:45 PM
I have a solution to this maybe. I am a Pensioner and have this by right. Pensioners are not or should not be lumped in as Bludgers on the Public tit in my opinion. Having said that I would support a Pension being means tested and the age entitlement being raised over time

Move from Auckland to another place where rent is less. My rent is $148 per fortnight and I have a living alone allowance but no supplement as such. My rent is due to go up as of 31st of this month

Do courses online to finish the study and if she does not have a PC she could move to where I am and use their PCs at an accredited NZQA Institution. I can't assume she has a PC or Internet at home. Whoops she does I now see.

Fixed costs
* Rent (2.5-bedroom flat in West Auckland) - $295.00 pw
* Petrol (to Unitec Mt Albert 5 days pw + hospital visits etc) - $90.00 pw
* Debt repayments (credit card + HP for child's clothes & shoes) - $50.00 pw
* Power - $38.00 pw
* Child's bus home from intermediate school - $27.00 pw
* Phone/internet (required for study) - $26.00 pw
* Parking (Unitec) - $12.00 pw
* Medical costs (fixed weekly payment to friendly GP) - $10.00 pw
* Water bill - $10.00 pw
* Fines (no WOF or rego on car - still can't afford WOF) - $10.00 pw
TOTAL - $568.00 pw

Net deficit before food - $50.68 pw
Deficit allowing $100 for food - $150.68 pw

To attempt to address these issues one at a time.
Rent=Move as already said.
Car expenses = Sell car as she would not need same we have free School buses but no Public Buses apart from Inter City, Newmans and the like. I am on State Highway 1. There is a free minivan to Waikato Hospital which will pick you up at your door and drop you off at your door for example. This would save $139 per week if we take out the following:-
Petrol, Child Bus, Parking which is free here and water rates which we don't pay as a separate issue but would be included by any Landlord as trying to make a profit on their investment. I might add that driving this vehicle on a regular basis may just add to extra fines if she does same 5 days per week.

Phone bill would indicate she has a broadband connection. It is about what I pay for Telecom landline and Internet with a 10 Gig cap. Possibly she got a free ADSL Modem and therefore may be locked into a contract. But to break a contract may involve other fees as most of us know. Probably best to keep whatever ISP and bring the PC with her along with all equipment.

Power seems reasonable enough and can't really see obvious savings there. I pay $64.00 per fortnight and I'm currently $38.92 in credit. Genesis has recently installed a new meter which chucks meter readers out the door and I am looking forward to my new bill which should arrive tomorrow.

Nowhere do I see the total debt owed by this person itemised as to Credit card, Fines and etc. Another question is where is the Father of said child? Is child support paid? Is there a student loan involved at all? The person involved could get Taxi vouchers from WINZ. I also have to ask why she has to have a "friendly GP" to get the disability allowance.

There may be some info that I'm not privy to but the questions have to be asked in my opinion and last but not least I am trying to offer an alternative rather than just having a moan. You do have to wonder about why a bank would give her a Credit card and why stores would extend credit in the first place.

Snorkbox
17-08-2010, 02:56 PM
I knew that would start a rant.
Somewhere smaller and cheaper? What's cheaper in Auckland? Had a look at rents lately?

And it's no like she is sitting on her bum - she is studying. I'd say that means she wants a decent job and the ability to get off her benefit once she's finished. Geez, give her a chance.........

On disability allowance? What are the chances of getting work if she is disabled?

My answer is to move from Auckland but then you did that and then moved back to Auckland.

Have you got a paid employment job yet and if so then what?

SolMiester
17-08-2010, 02:59 PM
also vindictive and overly agressive sentencing, (putting more of the wrong people in prison for longer) they deal with the problem only by punishing the alleged offender.

The have no intrest in rectifiying the root causes of the problem, which is why their justice policys fail and they will never get real power.

They make all this sensationalist noise about being tough on alleged crime.

Have they got the guts do a few simple Things in the law portfoilio that will have a major effect. EG:

0.000 drink drive alcahol limit.

raise drinking age back to 20 or 21.

Which within 18 months would free 30% plus of existing court time and speed up the court turnaround times radically.

raise tobacco purchasing age to 20 or 21.

raise driving age to 18 the basic new school leaving age.

The two above would radically reduce healt and acc costs, quickly.

raise voting age back to 20 or 21. to stop labour buying the youth vote as in the student loans free intrest deal.

No, because if they said they would do any of these basic simple things that need doing, they would not get the vote to power.

Every election hyde goes on this sansationalist get tough on crime rave, is transparent and booring.

the electorate has woken up to twinkel toes.

Zero drink drive limit is rubbish, if you think that will stop the drink drivers as the only ones who crash are the ones over the existing limit anyway....this is a prime example of reactionary politics, and the Labours major pitfall.
As for raising the drinking age, that too is a load of bollocks. The issue is with binge drinking not drinking per sa.
I do agree though that the voting age should be raised, as it is perfectly clear, while today's youth are more knowledgeable, they are more immature!

qazwsxokmijn
17-08-2010, 03:08 PM
On disability allowance? What are the chances of getting work if she is disabled?
My father's feet has grown deformed since he was little. There's this little bone in each foot that has somehow gravitated downwards and now makes contact with the ground. He cannot run, as the impact due to running would result in a whole lot of pain. Walking is fine, but if he doesn't wear his special feet soles then he'll be off his feet for a few days. His job involves a lot of standing up. It doesn't do his feet any good - he's been to the podiatrist and back. He's had a disabled parking permit for a couple of years now. I don't really know the severity of her disability, but the term 'disabled' here is very subjective.....perhaps many are simply whinging too much?

pctek
17-08-2010, 03:20 PM
I have a solution to this maybe. I am a Pensioner and have this by right.

Move from Auckland to another place where rent is less.

Rent=Move as already said.
Car expenses = Sell car

I am on State Highway 1. There is a free minivan to Waikato Hospital which will pick you up at your door and drop you off at your door for example. This would save $139 per week if we take out the following:-

Nowhere do I see the total debt owed by this person itemised as to Credit card, Fines and etc. Another question is where is the Father of said child?

The person involved could get Taxi vouchers from WINZ.


I'd say most of her debt has probably come from the car - fines.
And WINZ give taxi vouchers? They wouldn't even give her a used bus ticket., You think they do stuff like that? You are sadly mistaken.

Pension by right huh? Lucky you - I think the pension is going to disappear totally eventually.

Move where? She can't change her tertiary institution just like that you know and Auckland is one of the top 2 places in the country for work.

How nice you have buses. Depends where she lives but Auckland isn't exactly brilliant for public transport. When I lived in Massey I couldn't believe I could not catch a bus from Triangle rd for instance - a main rd.

Nomad
17-08-2010, 03:37 PM
Well .. a normal student afaik even a mature student needs to access student loans right? Get maybe ~$160 a week on the living loan with $1,000 for other stuff like travel (buses, petrol and internet, books). Seems like these people who go thru Winz has it better. Are these part time :confused:

Also afaik childcare costs with studnet loans are taken from that $1,000 as well (for the year).

kahawai chaser
17-08-2010, 03:43 PM
I think a related issue, is health (or lack off) habits, leading to constant health care (e.g. dialysis, diabetes, etc) and linked to that - dependence on sickness benefits.

Gareth Morgan wrote a piece recently in the NZ herald, about those that don't give a "damn" about eating/drinking to excess (more or less) unhealthy foods/drinks. In the end, such people strain the health system, and possibly become increasingly reliant on the benefit system. He believes such people should be stigmatized, awareness/education ramped up, and a special tax on junk food. In some ways, that those people are held accountable during their lives. Some make themselves sick, which it seems, should be prevented to refrain depending on benefits but more so on our health system.

angry
17-08-2010, 04:16 PM
Zero drink drive limit is rubbish, if you think that will stop the drink drivers as the only ones who crash are the ones over the existing limit anyway....this is a prime example of reactionary politics, and the Labours major pitfall.
As for raising the drinking age, that too is a load of bollocks. The issue is with binge drinking not drinking per sa.
I do agree though that the voting age should be raised, as it is perfectly clear, while today's youth are more
knowledgeable, they are more immature!

"Zero drink drive limit is rubbish, if you think that will stop the drink drivers as the only ones who crash are the ones over the existing limit anyway....this is a prime example of reactionary politics, and the Labours major pitfall."

I lived and worked in several countries and states with a ZERO LIMIT.

IT WORKS.

It is not a reactonary policy, it is a sane preventative/proactive policy.

It frees up enforcement resources, and simplyfies the enforcement prosess by removing all the grey area hair splitting.

It makes roading genuinely safer.

I dont follow the "its the drunks that have all the crashes" because it really isint.

the savings in healt system costs are a bounus not a motivator in this.

You need to get real about this, because its a when not if change.

Labour however wont do it, havent got the guts. I was not aware that it was their policy???

Key backed away form the limit change at the last minuite, scared of the youth and neandethall back lash at the comming election.

"As for raising the drinking age, that too is a load of bollocks. The issue is with binge drinking not drinking per sa. "

The issue is with teen abuse of alcahol and substances full stop.

Clearly you dont have to deal with groups of drunken teens regularly. I do, even on a monday evening when they should be at home preparing for school we have to deal with gangs of them, drunk and on substances (Which can be a bad mix) supplied by their 18 year old friends, it is also a factor in the teen: crime, pregnancy, dpb, suicide, ect, ect, rate.

As you stated elswhere todays youth are more immature, another good reasaon to put the drinkingmage back up.

The law change down was a vote buy.

Its creating nightmares and mayhem.

It must go back up.

angry
17-08-2010, 04:26 PM
Hyde good guy, I like his get tough on crooks thinking. He was given up for dead in Epers a few years ago when polls showed the scum sucking commie greens in front, he never gave up.
The guys got guts I admire him for going on dancing with the stars.

If it was get tough on the right crooks, ok.

his punative and vindictive approach WITHOUT A MAJOR OVERHAULL OF THE POLICE AND THE REST OF OUR STATUES FIRST is very wrong.

yes our prisons are holiday camps, but he wants to turn the into privitation, which is too far the other way, and makes many more serious offenders for the future.

He's standing at the bottom of the cliff with a steel bar bashing all that tumble past.

you must address the causes as well as toughen the retribution, all he's intrested in is retribution.

Lurking
17-08-2010, 04:53 PM
Pension by right huh? Lucky you - I think the pension is going to disappear totally eventually.

Yes quite a few of us super annuitants (spell check says two words!) are recovering excess taxation paid in previous years.

My investment in super funds for decades was taxed at 33 cents in the dollar, now it's down to the revised figure of 21 cents from 19.5 cents.

While in the work force my pay was taxed at the top rate prevailing and pension fund was also paying at the company tax rate.

So I for one don't mind getting something back.

Nothing is going to last much longer, as the New Zealand deficit has blown out from just over the 100 billion dollar level to over 180 billion!

How the h e l l are we going to pull that back, mining's out now, what's left?

Lurking.

robbyp
17-08-2010, 04:59 PM
Yes quite a few of us super annuitants (spell check says two words!) are recovering excess taxation paid in previous years.

My investment in super funds for decades was taxed at 33 cents in the dollar, now it's down to the revised figure of 21 cents from 19.5 cents.

While in the work force my pay was taxed at the top rate prevailing and pension fund was also paying at the company tax rate.

So I for one don't mind getting something back.

Nothing is going to last much longer, as the New Zealand deficit has blown out from just over the 100 billion dollar level to over 180 billion!

How the h e l l are we going to pull that back, mining's out now, what's left?

Lurking.


Yeah I think the NZ economy is in huge trouble. So much debt, people being far to greedy buying and selling overpriced houses. The mounting health costs on the aged population. Poor tax policies, and no compulsory super, which could have been used to reinvest back into NZs infrastructure and companies. Selling our most successful businesses to offshore companies, instead of us earning profits from them, which is where the super schemes could have come in. Policies and regulations that kill NZ businesses, and bog them down in red tape. Social unrest and a culture of entitlements, with youth figures some of the worst in the OECD. Most of our skilled people, including the best doctors, moving offshore where they can earn more, and have a less stressful environment. Being a Low wage economy.
And where are we going to get the money from to pay for all the upcoming costs? There doesn't seem to be any plan. Also what jobs summit that was held about 18 months ago, what actually came out of that that has benefited NZ, not much.

Snorkbox
17-08-2010, 05:06 PM
I'd say most of her debt has probably come from the car - fines.
And WINZ give taxi vouchers? They wouldn't even give her a used bus ticket., You think they do stuff like that? You are sadly mistaken.

Pension by right huh? Lucky you - I think the pension is going to disappear totally eventually.

Move where? She can't change her tertiary institution just like that you know and Auckland is one of the top 2 places in the country for work.

How nice you have buses. Depends where she lives but Auckland isn't exactly brilliant for public transport. When I lived in Massey I couldn't believe I could not catch a bus from Triangle rd for instance - a main rd.

I said move and presumably she would have NZQA credits which can be moved to another place. Auckland is not the whole world in NZ and I do agree that there is more work in Auckland than where I am. I care not where she lives. If you actually read through the post I made you would see that we have NO public buses apart from School buses which are free, Intercity which are not free and also a free minibus which goes to Waikato Hospital.

The selective quoting is noted but none of us know the full circumstances of this person do we. The rest of NZ pay extra levys and taxes for your roads do we not even though a fair percentage do not use said roads?

Looking at the upcoming ( possibly ) PressF1 meeting suggested in another thread it looks like the members can't agree on a date far less a venue. Possibly if she gets qualified she may be able to work from home via the Internet.

You also have failed to indicate whether you have job and if so then where and doing what?

I'd really not like to be your partner in life as you appear to be the Major General of SWMBO and put him down as being tech challenged and needs a GPS. Have you sorted him a job yet?

If you fail to answer either of the two questions in the two paragraphs above I will promote you to Field Marshall which is a rank not available in NZ at this time but maybe if Metla get to be President he could change all that I hope.

angry
17-08-2010, 06:32 PM
I said move and presumably she would have NZQA credits which can be moved to another place. Auckland is not the whole world in NZ and I do agree that there is more work in Auckland than where I am. I care not where she lives. If you actually read through the post I made you would see that we have NO public buses apart from School buses which are free, Intercity which are not free and also a free minibus which goes to Waikato Hospital.

The selective quoting is noted but none of us know the full circumstances of this person do we. The rest of NZ pay extra levys and taxes for your roads do we not even though a fair percentage do not use said roads?

Looking at the upcoming ( possibly ) PressF1 meeting suggested in another thread it looks like the members can't agree on a date far less a venue. Possibly if she gets qualified she may be able to work from home via the Internet.

You also have failed to indicate whether you have job and if so then where and doing what?

I'd really not like to be your partner in life as you appear to be the Major General of SWMBO and put him down as being tech challenged and needs a GPS. Have you sorted him a job yet?

If you fail to answer either of the two questions in the two paragraphs above I will promote you to Field Marshall which is a rank not available in NZ at this time but maybe if Metla get to be President he could change all that I hope.

"The rest of NZ pay extra levys and taxes for your roads do we not even though a fair percentage do not use said roads?"

garbage.

the auckland reigion has been systematically stripped of it petrol, road, and generall tax revenues, since those taxes were brought into existance.

only since 2001 has there been a small stemming of the gross outflow of taxes from the auckland reigon.

IF the present inflow of road tax investment continues unabated, the rest of new zealand may pay off it tax debt to auckland in about 150 years.

And my point of origin in new zealand is CH CH.

this bash auckland, were all paying for auckland bs, is nearl as bad as the yank's and israel are resposible for all evil bs

:annoyed:

pctek
17-08-2010, 06:32 PM
Looking at the upcoming ( possibly ) PressF1 meeting suggested in another thread it looks like the members can't agree on a date far less a venue.

You also have failed to indicate whether you have job and if so then where and doing what?

I'd really not like to be your partner in life as you appear to be the Major General of SWMBO and put him down as being tech challenged and needs a GPS.


The venue is always the same and the date seems to be the 11th.
My employment status has been discussed before, including updates on it. I don't think it needs to be dragged out again.

And if my husband is tech challenged so what. He happily agrees with that and couldn't care less. Why do you?

lakewoodlady
17-08-2010, 06:59 PM
Ooh, soo tempted to get involved in this discussion, but I wont! Too many harsh words!

LL

Poppa John
17-08-2010, 09:35 PM
In the News.
"2700 people turn up to apply for 150 jobs at a new New World Supermarket in Auckland".

There is always a lot of comment on this Forum about people getting off their bums, off Welfare, & get a job.What jobs.

If you take people off wefare then how will they live? Easy.From YOUR Fridge & Pantry at your house whilst you are out.

By Metlas own statement. He applied for over 300 jobs before he got one. I know Metla & I would definitely NOT say that he is unimployable, like many are. PJ

mikebartnz
17-08-2010, 11:51 PM
What is to be done about these #'s.
Shocking figures.
I think it was in the Dom this morning that one letter writer suggested that all benefits should be lodged on a card so it would restrict how that money could be spent. The kids would see more benefit from it.

I like your sig Cicero

mikebartnz
18-08-2010, 12:05 AM
We had that once but Muldoon took it away after I had been putting in for some 15 years. I never did get a refund for some reason
I'm pretty sure that scheme ran for way less than fifteen years.

mikebartnz
18-08-2010, 12:09 AM
Last election I voted NZ First. Apparently not enough agreed with me however I will continue to vote the way I see it.

Time to start a new party methinks.
The Snorkbox party has a good ring to it.

mikebartnz
18-08-2010, 12:10 AM
It was before that as I remember the increase being an extra 1/6d or 6d in the pound so it was before decimal currency.
The pre decimal one was different.

mikebartnz
18-08-2010, 12:13 AM
Vote Act.
Yeah the early Act boys backed the likes of Michael Fay and co. buying the railways etc.

mikebartnz
18-08-2010, 12:17 AM
Also they seem to have a little division in the ranks at the moment for some reason.
and who is that woman they have just dumped as deputy leader. O yeah it was Heather Roy.

prefect
18-08-2010, 12:34 AM
Quite amazing you would dump the leader on whos coat tails you came in on the election.
The party I would love to start would be called The New Zealand Shooters, Fishermen and Motorist party.
Stop commercial fishing near coast, loosen up gun laws heaps, self defence laws sorted out, cut tax on fuel, no gst on any taxes that sucks, cheaper rego, drop all tax except gst on liquor. No tax on fuel for boats and off road. Immigration to be curtailed, no refugees, build more prisons ,anyone not born here commits crime is deported, get some fighter bombers Russians one like Sukhoi would be all good.
My campaign ditties would be: "You poor bastards need me" " Ill see you right, right in the ****"

mikebartnz
18-08-2010, 12:34 AM
How the h e l l are we going to pull that back, mining's out now, what's left?
Oil.

pctek
18-08-2010, 07:47 AM
Here's another one: we can swap to picking on her now:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10666900

Nomad
18-08-2010, 09:10 AM
i just say that people have to adj approp no matter how much income they may of received in the past.

Maintaining their prev lifestyle is not viable.
It's also mentality, I've worked with those on 60k incomes and they have a $4k car. I've cut mine right back, after deciding to spend some months doing another qualification and just accept my $165/week student loan.

SolMiester
18-08-2010, 09:11 AM
"Zero drink drive limit is rubbish, if you think that will stop the drink drivers as the only ones who crash are the ones over the existing limit anyway....this is a prime example of reactionary politics, and the Labours major pitfall."

I lived and worked in several countries and states with a ZERO LIMIT.

IT WORKS.

It is not a reactonary policy, it is a sane preventative/proactive policy.

It frees up enforcement resources, and simplyfies the enforcement prosess by removing all the grey area hair splitting.

It makes roading genuinely safer.

I dont follow the "its the drunks that have all the crashes" because it really isint.

the savings in healt system costs are a bounus not a motivator in this.

You need to get real about this, because its a when not if change.

Labour however wont do it, havent got the guts. I was not aware that it was their policy???

Key backed away form the limit change at the last minuite, scared of the youth and neandethall back lash at the comming election.

"As for raising the drinking age, that too is a load of bollocks. The issue is with binge drinking not drinking per sa. "

The issue is with teen abuse of alcahol and substances full stop.

Clearly you dont have to deal with groups of drunken teens regularly. I do, even on a monday evening when they should be at home preparing for school we have to deal with gangs of them, drunk and on substances (Which can be a bad mix) supplied by their 18 year old friends, it is also a factor in the teen: crime, pregnancy, dpb, suicide, ect, ect, rate.

As you stated elswhere todays youth are more immature, another good reasaon to put the drinkingmage back up.

The law change down was a vote buy.

Its creating nightmares and mayhem.

It must go back up.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree.....you appear to want to punish all for the errors of the few, as I said, reactionary politics...If the current laws were properly enforced we would be all good, however, we have a soft justice and punishment system, we have kids with no respect for adults and full of their rights. I do think the off-license age increase in a great idea, maybe 20 is not high enough.
What I was saying above is its not the drivers within the current limits having the accidents, therefore lowering the limit to .5 will do jack ****! But I guess for you its just black & white!

Cicero
18-08-2010, 09:26 AM
Here's another one: we can swap to picking on her now:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10666900

Ignoring" it,"might be a better course.

For a small fee my sig is available.

Lurking
18-08-2010, 10:32 AM
Oil.

After the Mexico fiasco !! not likely now, would be just like the recent mining outcome.

Lurking.

angry
18-08-2010, 02:06 PM
Well, we will just have to agree to disagree.....you appear to want to punish all for the errors of the few, as I said, reactionary politics...If the current laws were properly enforced we would be all good, however, we have a soft justice and punishment system, we have kids with no respect for adults and full of their rights. I do think the off-license age increase in a great idea, maybe 20 is not high enough.
What I was saying above is its not the drivers within the current limits having the accidents, therefore lowering the limit to .5 will do jack ****! But I guess for you its just black & white!


the dd laws arent black and white, they need to be made so to unclog the courts.

not .5 but 0.000 is what is required.

kiwi bumhole youth, are among the worst behaved drinkers in the world.

Its not about punishment, it about safety and expedency.

if you can see that and conceed it, its obvious which group you belong to.

rob_on_guitar
18-08-2010, 02:52 PM
Well, we will just have to agree to disagree.....you appear to want to punish all for the errors of the few.....

For the drink driving I can't see who is being punished.
If you don't drink and drive your sweet.

Gobe1
18-08-2010, 04:42 PM
After the Mexico fiasco !! not likely now, would be just like the recent mining outcome.

Lurking.

+ what does NZ get out of oil, 4% royalties maybe??? And a few jobs
Helen Clark waved goodbye to the oil off taranaki coast (goodbye:wub) and there is a perfectly good refinerey 20 miles away....

gary67
18-08-2010, 04:59 PM
kiwi bumhole youth, are among the worst behaved drinkers in the world.



Have you been overseas? I mean real overseas not just Australia youth here are no different from the youth in the UK and most parts of Europe, the drinking culture over there is almost identical to here amongst the young

Cato
18-08-2010, 05:21 PM
Have you been overseas? I mean real overseas not just Australia youth here are no different from the youth in the UK and most parts of Europe, the drinking culture over there is almost identical to here amongst the young

We're nowhere as bad as the aussies or poms.

prefect
18-08-2010, 05:40 PM
I would say the Englanders would get the world cup in youth drinking piss and playing up.
Even though soccer hooliganism is a big feature of Englander drinking.
Doubt there is much diff between New Zealand and Australian drinkers who drink to get drunk just like we have done for hundreds of years. My Dad said if you are going to do something do it properly so I took his advice when drinking piss. Long may the tradition survive of drinking to get drunk. It has its down sides, a massive hangover, thin wallet and the light drinkers make good with the chicks while you are heaving in the gutter. Only thing Oz police arent known for being understanding with drunks playing up because they have guns.
Has something changed? is it not cool to get pissed anymore if thats so its sad, when I am drunk all my worries disappear I am happy as a sandman music sounds better to.

angry
19-08-2010, 01:01 AM
Have you been overseas? I mean real overseas not just Australia youth here are no different from the youth in the UK and most parts of Europe, the drinking culture over there is almost identical to here amongst the young


japan thailand hongkong philapines vietnam fiji singapore malaya burma india yemmen saudi kuwait quatar bahrain iraq egypt israel lebanon turkey greece austria hungary switzerland germany poland checoslavakia frogland denmark holland belgium sweden norway america canada mexico barbados curacao trinidad tobago jamacia panama the one at the other end of the canal tahiti, solomons new guinea and aussie nearly forgot korea and taiwan, probably missed some.

dubahi

angry
19-08-2010, 01:06 AM
I would say the Englanders would get the world cup in youth drinking piss and playing up.
Even though soccer hooliganism is a big feature of Englander drinking.
Doubt there is much diff between New Zealand and Australian drinkers who drink to get drunk just like we have done for hundreds of years. My Dad said if you are going to do something do it properly so I took his advice when drinking piss. Long may the tradition survive of drinking to get drunk. It has its down sides, a massive hangover, thin wallet and the light drinkers make good with the chicks while you are heaving in the gutter. Only thing Oz police arent known for being understanding with drunks playing up because they have guns.
Has something changed? is it not cool to get pissed anymore if thats so its sad, when I am drunk all my worries disappear I am happy as a sandman music sounds better to.

do all those thing, just dont drive drunk, or be an; obnoxious, agressive, inconsiderate, bumhole, when drunk, all of which kiwi bumhole youth excell at.

SolMiester
19-08-2010, 01:36 PM
the dd laws arent black and white, they need to be made so to unclog the courts.

not .5 but 0.000 is what is required.

kiwi bumhole youth, are among the worst behaved drinkers in the world.

Its not about punishment, it about safety and expedency.

if you can see that and conceed it, its obvious which group you belong to.

You dont see it do you, you are saying that I can no longer have a couple of beers after work (which leaves me under the current limit) because of a minority few who dont!....and even then you cant guarantee that nobody will drink and drive...
It is stupid law making at its best....I give a **** what bumhole youth do!
Change the laws for them if you have to, NOT everyone and what is the last line?, what group?

SolMiester
19-08-2010, 01:40 PM
For the drink driving I can't see who is being punished.
If you don't drink and drive your sweet.

I am saying that at present their are probably hundreds of people who can have a drink staying under the limit and drive home fine. Then there are those that take no notice of the limit and attempt to drive home, reducing the limit will not stop them, neither will removing the limit.
Therefore only those that obey the law will be affected and that is **** law making!

mikebartnz
20-08-2010, 09:32 AM
+ what does NZ get out of oil, 4% royalties maybe??? And a few jobs
Helen Clark waved goodbye to the oil off taranaki coast (goodbye:wub) and there is a perfectly good refinerey 20 miles away....
The only problem is it can't refine the grade of oil we have here so it has got to be shipped off shore.

Gobe1
20-08-2010, 12:13 PM
I am saying that at present their are probably hundreds of people who can have a drink staying under the limit and drive home fine. Then there are those that take no notice of the limit and attempt to drive home, reducing the limit will not stop them, neither will removing the limit.
Therefore only those that obey the law will be affected and that is **** law making!

+1

angry
20-08-2010, 11:19 PM
You dont see it do you, you are saying that I can no longer have a couple of beers after work (which leaves me under the current limit) because of a minority few who dont!....and even then you cant guarantee that nobody will drink and drive...
It is stupid law making at its best....I give a **** what bumhole youth do!
Change the laws for them if you have to, NOT everyone and what is the last line?, what group?

I see that you are one of the neaderthall's that will not admitt that this law has to be changed for the good of society, and other road users.

as usuall "take from them, not me" is your position.

once one eyed truck drivers were allowed. now there not some people lost their jobs.

that was tough for them, but better for everybody else.

its when, not if this law is changed.

all drives who drink are potential child murderers.

go look inthe mirror see what a potential child murderer looks like.

Snorkbox
20-08-2010, 11:53 PM
I see that you are one of the neaderthall's that will not admitt that this law has to be changed for the good of society, and other road users.

as usuall "take from them, not me" is your position.

once one eyed truck drivers were allowed. now there not some people lost their jobs.

that was tough for them, but better for everybody else.

its when, not if this law is changed.

all drives who drink are potential child murderers.

go look inthe mirror see what a potential child murderer looks like.

Can I take it Angry that you do not go to Church in your car and partake of communion? Or are you a reformed alcoholic and can't partake of just one drink because you know that if you do then it will lead to rather more than one?

I note that people who have given up smoking cigarettes are extremely vocal about everyone who has not yet given up. It has also been said that there is no person more prudish than a reformed whore.

Each and everyone of us are potential child killers. Just look at the stats. People back over their children in their driveway when stone cold sober.

The fact that I, personally, have not yet killed is possibly due to good luck in so far as I do try and treat driving as a full time job. I have had a few close calls when the kid in question is riding a cycle on the footpath and suddenly goes off the footpath and over the pedestrian crossing.

A zero alcohol limit leaves no room for any tolerance regarding blood sugar levels, taking cough mixture some of which contain alcohol and etc.

angry
21-08-2010, 12:21 AM
Can I take it Angry that you do not go to Church in your car and partake of communion? Or are you a reformed alcoholic and can't partake of just one drink because you know that if you do then it will lead to rather more than one?

I note that people who have given up smoking cigarettes are extremely vocal about everyone who has not yet given up. It has also been said that there is no person more prudish than a reformed whore.

Each and everyone of us are potential child killers. Just look at the stats. People back over their children in their driveway when stone cold sober.

The fact that I, personally, have not yet killed is possibly due to good luck in so far as I do try and treat driving as a full time job. I have had a few close calls when the kid in question is riding a cycle on the footpath and suddenly goes off the footpath and over the pedestrian crossing.

A zero alcohol limit leaves no room for any tolerance regarding blood sugar levels, taking cough mixture some of which contain alcohol and etc.

"Can I take it Angry that you do not go to Church in your car and partake of communion? "

I do not practice any religeon, 1 thing mao got right "Organized religeon is poison to the people"

"Or are you a reformed alcoholic and can't partake of just one drink because you know that if you do then it will lead to rather more than one?"

No, not a recovering drug addict either.

"I note that people who have given up smoking cigarettes are extremely vocal about everyone who has not yet given up."

you need edit this in your thinking to "some people" (case in point) and also some whore's.

As long as smokers are not pufing in my face in restaurants or libarys, I simply give them space. They are drug addicts, when they are ready to deal with the proplem. I will be there for them.

Untill that time, I will leave them alone and stay out of their enviroment.

"A zero alcohol limit leaves no room for any tolerance regarding blood sugar levels, taking cough mixture some of which contain alcohol and etc."

cough mixture is a medication, it is amazing the number of people who ignore the "operate machinery or vehicles" warning with some perscriptions.

Car painter's, and fiberglass worker's will also get caught in this trap.

but these are a only a few anomolys, no matter what you do there will allways be a few little issues, its the price of a grater good.

and yes I do drink, ocasionally, dont like being drunk or even half drunk dont like the loss of controll (accuracy, balance) or in many cases the smell.

Being totally detoxed for severall years may have something to do with it, along with drinking 15 liters of water a day and only needing to pee once before you go to bed because thats how much you sweat in those places.

kenj
21-08-2010, 09:39 AM
"Can I take it Angry that you do not go to Church in your car and partake of communion? "

I do not practice any religeon, 1 thing mao got right "Organized religeon is poison to the people"

"Or are you a reformed alcoholic and can't partake of just one drink because you know that if you do then it will lead to rather more than one?"

No, not a recovering drug addict either.

"I note that people who have given up smoking cigarettes are extremely vocal about everyone who has not yet given up."

you need edit this in your thinking to "some people" (case in point) and also some whore's.

As long as smokers are not pufing in my face in restaurants or libarys, I simply give them space. They are drug addicts, when they are ready to deal with the proplem. I will be there for them.

Untill that time, I will leave them alone and stay out of their enviroment.

"A zero alcohol limit leaves no room for any tolerance regarding blood sugar levels, taking cough mixture some of which contain alcohol and etc."

cough mixture is a medication, it is amazing the number of people who ignore the "operate machinery or vehicles" warning with some perscriptions.

Car painter's, and fiberglass worker's will also get caught in this trap.

but these are a only a few anomolys, no matter what you do there will allways be a few little issues, its the price of a grater good.

and yes I do drink, ocasionally, dont like being drunk or even half drunk dont like the loss of controll (accuracy, balance) or in many cases the smell.

Being totally detoxed for severall years may have something to do with it, along with drinking 15 liters of water a day and only needing to pee once before you go to bed because thats how much you sweat in those places.

Where is Roddyboy when he is needed?

Ken :D

WalOne
21-08-2010, 10:11 AM
Where is Roddyboy when he is needed?

Ken :D

I could be tempted to stand in for Roddy.

What an apalling example of misspelling and incorrect grammar by Angry. Or is it more, an unhinged rant?

:horrified

Cicero
21-08-2010, 10:17 AM
I could be tempted to stand in for Roddy.

What an appalling example of misspelling and incorrect grammar by Angry. Or is it more, an unhinged rant?

:horrified

It has to be deliberate or we have a problem!

prefect
21-08-2010, 10:53 AM
I could be tempted to stand in for Roddy.

What an apalling example of misspelling and incorrect grammar by Angry. Or is it more, an unhinged rant?

:horrified

Unhinged rant

angry
21-08-2010, 03:30 PM
It has to be deliberate or we have a problem!

yes you do.

there used to be an easy to find and use spell checker in the thread posting window.

gone.

no spell checker in forum, if written in forum in hurry dosent get checked in office.

i am not cluttering my browser with crap addons.

bring back the checker in the window.

angry
21-08-2010, 03:32 PM
I could be tempted to stand in for Roddy.

What an apalling example of misspelling and incorrect grammar by Angry. Or is it more, an unhinged rant?

:horrified

youve been told what to do before.

its a chat forum, not a publishable masters thesis.

Snorkbox
21-08-2010, 04:15 PM
youve been told what to do before.

its a chat forum, not a publishable masters thesis.

Very true. However I think your posts should, at least, make sense and be backed up by facts. Many people do the odd typo including me.

WalOne
21-08-2010, 04:23 PM
Many people do the odd typo including me.

And moi.

:devil

Snorkbox
21-08-2010, 04:43 PM
But now you are doing French which is not a typo. Perhaps the official language should be Maori. :o

John H
21-08-2010, 05:19 PM
But now you are doing French which is not a typo. Perhaps the official language should be Maori. :o

That would be Māori...

WalOne
21-08-2010, 06:18 PM
But now you are doing French which is not a typo. Perhaps the official language should be Maori. :o

Non :devil

mikebartnz
21-08-2010, 08:25 PM
all drives who drink are potential child murderers.

go look inthe mirror see what a potential child murderer looks like.
You have blown any credibility for your argument with saying that.

angry
21-08-2010, 09:24 PM
You have blown any credibility for your argument with saying that.

no I havent.

all drinking drivers should be made to go to multiple fatals and clean up the mess their drunken compatriots have made.

And have to listen to the blithereing drunken murderers bleating that is was the kids, or the other blokes fault, not theirs, "I didnt do anything wrong its their fault" all with the appropriate drunken slurs.

DRINK DRIVE KILL. (Yourself or somebody else)

DRINK DRIVE DIE.

same as the anti speeding slogan.

IF YOUR PERPARED TO SPEED, YOUR PREPARED TO KILL.

which can also read.

IF YOUR PREPARED TO DRINK AND DRIVE, YOUR PREPARED TO KILL.

But it dosent ring right on a billboard.

anybody who drinks and drives only has to look in the mirror to see a potential murderer.

If you cant see that, I am sorry for you.

gary67
21-08-2010, 09:51 PM
Well actually I agree if you drink and drive you might as well be called a murderer as at some point it could happen

Snorkbox
21-08-2010, 10:04 PM
Well actually I agree if you drink and drive you might as well be called a murderer as at some point it could happen

If you use alcohol and then drive and then kill a person you would be an idiot. I would suggest a charge of manslaughter rather than murder though.

Reasoning here. Murder involves intent to kill which may be difficult to prove by the crown. Manslaughter on the other hand does not need proof of intent to support the charge.

angry
21-08-2010, 10:21 PM
If you use alcohol and then drive and then kill a person you would be an idiot. I would suggest a charge of manslaughter rather than murder though.

Reasoning here. Murder involves intent to kill which may be difficult to prove by the crown. Manslaughter on the other hand does not need proof of intent to support the charge.

yes, it runs like the armed robber argument, that when he walked into the bank with a gun he did not intend to kill that person.

case law in particular dean whitcliff, murder conviction reduced by the court of appeal.

dangerous/drunken driving causing death is the common local charge.

although manslaughter is becoming more prevelant in dd killings, as it should be, because the sentencing threshold is higher.

common terminology is murderer as opposed to manslaughterer though, for obvious reasons.

SolMiester
23-08-2010, 04:35 PM
and yes I do drink, ocasionally, dont like being drunk or even half drunk dont like the loss of controll (accuracy, balance) or in many cases the smell.

Being totally detoxed for severall years may have something to do with it, along with drinking 15 liters of water a day and only needing to pee once before you go to bed because thats how much you sweat in those places.


LMAO! - where do these dick-heads come from?

peter2
23-08-2010, 07:25 PM
LMAO! - where do these dick-heads come from?

I know my mate, he’s been over here for a few years.

Its quiet a difficult program he’s in.

The number of posts he’s made recently tell me he’s procrastinating.

I told him stop wasting time on that stupid forum get focused and on with your work or come back here to headland where you belong.

To answer your question.

Go look at your father if you know who he is.

qazwsxokmijn
23-08-2010, 07:40 PM
So angry's real name is Peter.

KarameaDave
23-08-2010, 08:56 PM
Or is Peter really angry?

R2x1
23-08-2010, 09:12 PM
I thought each was a Richard.

Cicero
23-08-2010, 09:31 PM
I thought each was a Richard.

That sir is verging on duel territory.

R2x1
23-08-2010, 09:39 PM
Right - a dual.

Have at tu ;)