PDA

View Full Version : E- Cars = Lower Highway Funds



SurferJoe46
12-08-2010, 09:51 AM
In the US - and maybe Upsidedown Land too - the highways are built/maintained and repaired by fuel taxes on a per-gallon basis.

Here's an interesting article on the newest flummox to affect the general population of trench dwellers:


The U.S. Department of Transportation has a faulty business model when it comes to funding highways. And the problem will only get worse as electric cars start hitting the road in 2011 and more efficient automobiles proliferate.

Assuming cars like the Chevrolet Volt {see footnote} and Nissan Leaf—not to mention a bevy of electric vehicles coming after those two automobiles—become successful the Highway Trust Fund is going to have big problems.

The Highway Trust Fund is the source of funding for most of the U.S. government’s surface transportation programs. The fund itself gets its money from gas taxes: every time you go to the pump, you pay a federal and state tax. These taxes fund highway maintenance and repair on the federal and state levels.

Shooting themselves in both feet this time - I guess they'll dip into the Social Security pool for some more $$.

Great gunzels! Now I bet I don't get my annual SS cost-of-living raise again next year!

FOOTNOTE: The Chevy Volt requires premium fuel - which can sometimes be $1.00 (NZ= 4 lambchops) more here in the States.

LINK (http://www.smartplanet.com/business/blog/smart-takes/how-electric-cars-could-pull-the-plug-on-us-highway-funding/9678/)

johcar
12-08-2010, 10:02 AM
Yes, roads are funded here (along with a multitude of other things) by taxes added to the price of a litre of fuel (diesel is different), but there aren't to many electric cars here yet. A few Prius's and Insights but they still use petrol.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the government agency looking after the money grab is working on a cunning plan to extract even more dosh from our wallets for even less return to us... After all, that's their job. :(

pablo d
12-08-2010, 10:30 AM
RUC

problem solved

johcar
12-08-2010, 10:57 AM
Road User Charges (for the benefit of Joe) in their current state (for diesel vehicles) are a joke.

There would have to be an equitable way of assigning them to all vehicle types and a cheap and effective way of collecting them. I'll bet there are a huge number of non-commercial diesel vehicles on the road that are not up-to-date with their RUC...

pablo d
12-08-2010, 11:05 AM
Road User Charges (for the benefit of Joe) in their current state (for diesel vehicles) are a joke.

There would have to be an equitable way of assigning them to all vehicle types and a cheap and effective way of collecting them. I'll bet there are a huge number of non-commercial diesel vehicles on the road that are not up-to-date with their RUC...

not insurmountable obstructions...not worth donning the end-is-nigh suit for anyway.

SurferJoe46
12-08-2010, 11:30 AM
not insurmountable obstructions...not worth donning the end-is-nigh suit for anyway.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you didn't READ that article at all - right?

Think GPS.

mikebartnz
12-08-2010, 11:38 AM
- which can sometimes be $1.00 (NZ= 4 lambchops) more here in the States.
Your lamb chops are cheaper there than here or pathetically small.

pablo d
12-08-2010, 11:38 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you didn't READ that article at all - right?

Think GPS.

not at all

johcar
12-08-2010, 11:44 AM
Ah.
"a GPS device in your car would track your mileage and tax you accordingly"

George Orwell was a little premature in his predictions....

Gobe1
12-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Tolls in Ozzy take a snapshot of your license plate and do this already, and charge it to your credit card
The quality of the highways reflects the money they make from this system

SurferJoe46
12-08-2010, 12:03 PM
Your lamb chops are cheaper there than here or pathetically small.

I was trying to peer into the USD/NZD monetary exchange - and you've only recently gone off the coconut standard so I took a stab at it.

Joe's cooking alert!

Got the in-laws coming from Fort Collins, Colorado this next week for a visit.

Got any 'shanks-o'-lamb recipes that don't have green mint gunk on them?

Snorkbox
12-08-2010, 01:35 PM
I was trying to peer into the USD/NZD monetary exchange - and you've only recently gone off the coconut standard so I took a stab at it.

Joe's cooking alert!

Got the in-laws coming from Fort Collins, Colorado this next week for a visit.

Got any 'shanks-o'-lamb recipes that don't have green mint gunk on them?

No mint on this one if it helps you:-

I cup dates
1/2 Cup Dried Apricots
8 Lamb Shanks
2 tspn Crushed Garlic
1 tspn Salt and Pepper
1 Cup Flour
1/4 Cup Oil
2 Cups Diced Red Onion
2 Carrots, peeled and cut into 1/4 inch rings
2 Stalks of Celery, cut to same thickness as carrots
1 Tbs Rosemary
2 Tbs Tomato Paste
3 Cups Chicken Stock
3 Cups Beef Stock
1 1/2 Cups of Red Wine
2 Bay Leaf
Method:Place the dates and apricots in a heat proof bowl, place in microwave and cook on high for 1 minute. Place dates and apricots in food processor and blitz until a smooth paste. Loosen with a little of the red wine, set aside. Place flour inside a plastic shopping bag, add shanks, and shake to coat with flour.Add oil to a large fry pan, bring up to a medium to high heat adding the shanks and cook until evenly browned all over. Remove shanks and place inside a deep casserole dish. Add carrots, celery, garlic, tomato paste to the fry pan, and cook for five minutes.Add sweated vegetables to the shanks, add red wine, beef and chicken stock, garlic, and finally the date and apricot purée, stir well adding the bay leaves.Cover with a lid and bake at 180C for 1hour, basting the shanks after 30 minutes. After 1 hour baste the shanks again and cook for a further 30 minutes with the lid removed.

SolMiester
12-08-2010, 01:46 PM
Your lamb chops are cheaper there than here or pathetically small.

Good spotting Mike.....

The Error Guy
12-08-2010, 02:50 PM
Probably charge per KWh or something, either that or they'll add to the current rates/taxes

Agent_24
12-08-2010, 03:18 PM
I'm not an anti-environmentalist but I don't see how the electric car is going to be better than petrol\diesel.

You need electricity produced, and a lot of that is not produced in 'clean' ways

Then you must have large and complex batteries to power the cars, does anyone have a good recycling strategy for these at end of life or will they just end up rotting (or not) in a landfill somewhere?

SurferJoe46
12-08-2010, 03:18 PM
No mint on this one if it helps you:-

I cup dates
1/2 Cup Dried Apricots
8 Lamb Shanks
2 tspn Crushed Garlic
1 tspn Salt and Pepper
1 Cup Flour
1/4 Cup Oil
2 Cups Diced Red Onion
2 Carrots, peeled and cut into 1/4 inch rings
2 Stalks of Celery, cut to same thickness as carrots
1 Tbs Rosemary
2 Tbs Tomato Paste
3 Cups Chicken Stock
3 Cups Beef Stock
1 1/2 Cups of Red Wine
2 Bay Leaf
Method:Place the dates and apricots in a heat proof bowl, place in microwave and cook on high for 1 minute. Place dates and apricots in food processor and blitz until a smooth paste. Loosen with a little of the red wine, set aside. Place flour inside a plastic shopping bag, add shanks, and shake to coat with flour.Add oil to a large fry pan, bring up to a medium to high heat adding the shanks and cook until evenly browned all over. Remove shanks and place inside a deep casserole dish. Add carrots, celery, garlic, tomato paste to the fry pan, and cook for five minutes.Add sweated vegetables to the shanks, add red wine, beef and chicken stock, garlic, and finally the date and apricot purée, stir well adding the bay leaves.Cover with a lid and bake at 180C for 1hour, basting the shanks after 30 minutes. After 1 hour baste the shanks again and cook for a further 30 minutes with the lid removed.

I can taste that already! I've not only printed several copies for myself and a neighbor or two, but it's also in my archives for a really great meal!

Thanks - and that appears to be exactly what I wanted.

I've got the temperature conversion::: 356º Fahrenheit = 180º Celsius , but I can't figure out the 30 minutes metric equivalency.

SurferJoe46
12-08-2010, 03:23 PM
I'm not an anti-environmentalist but I don't see how the electric car is going to be better than petrol\diesel.

You need electricity produced, and a lot of that is not produced in 'clean' ways

Then you must have large and complex batteries to power the cars, does anyone have a good recycling strategy for these at end of life or will they just end up rotting (or not) in a landfill somewhere?

What you're missing is the 'out-of-sight' rational of the GREEN PEOPLE Do-Gooders who think electricity comes from male crickets rubbing their legs together.

Any time you convert energy from one form to another there are measurable losses and then again - like you said:: "batteries".

The very fact that these new GM cars require premium fuel wasn't even spoken either - but they do!

This is a sto-o-o-pid idea and there's only one reason for it - greed and avarice toward the consumers. If they bring out cars that have planned yearly obsolescence designed into them they figure they have a sure income for eternity.

mikebartnz
12-08-2010, 04:18 PM
I was trying to peer into the USD/NZD monetary exchange - and you've only recently gone off the coconut standard so I took a stab at it.

Joe's cooking alert!

Got the in-laws coming from Fort Collins, Colorado this next week for a visit.

Got any 'shanks-o'-lamb recipes that don't have green mint gunk on them?
If you want a really good Indian recipe for a leg of mutton let me know.

mikebartnz
12-08-2010, 04:21 PM
You need electricity produced, and a lot of that is not produced in 'clean' ways
as well as all the loss in transmission. Hydrogen is the way to go as there is an endless supply but producing it in the liquid form might cost a bit. Honda have one.

Gobe1
12-08-2010, 04:41 PM
I believe producing hydrogen costs about the same as producing petrol per litre at todays technology (is that liquid or gas??im not sure)

SoniKalien
12-08-2010, 05:14 PM
I can't figure out the 30 minutes metric equivalency.

30 minutes is half a degree :p

SurferJoe46
12-08-2010, 05:15 PM
If you want a really good Indian recipe for a leg of mutton let me know.


I prolly shouldn't - stomach damaged by prescription drugs combating the effects of Agent Orange and I cannot take much heat in the spices.

If there's a very mild version - then please do though.

But - man I love mutton!

Even mutton stew with that thick crust on top of it when it gets cold. My sister and I would wait for it to chill in the fridge and we'd pick it off and eat it with the refrigerator door open and us sitting on the floor in front of it.

prefect
12-08-2010, 05:50 PM
Road User Charges (for the benefit of Joe) in their current state (for diesel vehicles) are a joke.

There would have to be an equitable way of assigning them to all vehicle types and a cheap and effective way of collecting them. I'll bet there are a huge number of non-commercial diesel vehicles on the road that are not up-to-date with their RUC...

Yep the only way to catch the non commercial diesels for RUC is at next WOF, or if they are a typical South Auckland diesel next roadblock.
The cost of fine and get up to date is quite often more than the vehicle is worth so the dole bludgers and DPBers just go their WINZ. Or courts to get a ridiculously low payment plan for the fines/update and still keep using vehicle.
The law is gutless the vehicles should be impounded till the fine and update is paid.
If the feds impounded a South Auckland family diesel Mazda Bongo van you could just imagine the screaming the left wing media would do.
Commercial a whole new ball game, the book just gets thrown at you seen a few truck operators fined up to 5k on one stop. Heard stories of 20k plus fines. The CVIU wear black just like the nasty Gestapo and SS which is apt I have never in 30 years ever heard a nice thing about the CVIU. When they pull me over I refuse to make conversation with them and I stare at them with hatred they soon get the idea.
The only things they warned me on are pathetic from memory a loose bus seat, rust on crimps on brake hose and a borderline tyre.
When they finish they say good day or something I always reply with **** ***, havent arrested me for it yet.

feersumendjinn
12-08-2010, 09:28 PM
Translation for Joe ;)
WOF=Warrant of Fitness (6 month or yearly vehicle roadworthiness test)
CVIU=http://www.police.govt.nz/service/road/cviu.html
Dole bludgers=Social welfare benefit dependants/abusers
DPBers=Domestic Purposes Benefit abusers (usually by solo mothers)
WINZ= Work & Income New Zealand (Social Welfare Agency) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_welfare_in_New_Zealand)

mikebartnz
12-08-2010, 09:51 PM
I prolly shouldn't - stomach damaged by prescription drugs combating the effects of Agent Orange and I cannot take much heat in the spices.

If there's a very mild version - then please do though.

But - man I love mutton!

Even mutton stew with that thick crust on top of it when it gets cold. My sister and I would wait for it to chill in the fridge and we'd pick it off and eat it with the refrigerator door open and us sitting on the floor in front of it.
This recipe has come out of Madhur Jeffreys book. (my bible)
Leave the cayenne pepper and mace out if you can't stand the heat.

# Marinated Leg of Lamb #

1 leg of lamb (I use Mutton as there is a lot more on it)
1 medium onion
a piece of fresh ginger 3 inches by 1 inch peeled and coarsely chopped
5-7 cloves of garlic 6 fl oz of lemon juice
1 tbs ground coriander 1 tsp ground cumin
1 tsp garam masala 1 tsp ground tumeric
1/4 tsp ground mace 1/4 tsp ground nutmeg
1/4 tsp ground cinnamon 1/4 tsp ground cloves
8 fl oz olive oil 2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp fresh ground pepper 1/4 - 1 tsp cayenne pepper


The easiest way is to put the whole lot except the lamb in the food processor.
Bone the meat, trim off all fat and then put a whole lot of gashes in it to
let the marinade penetrate.
Marinate for 24 hours. I usually put the meat and all in a plastic bag to
marinate. It makes it easier turning it every few hours.
Barbecue or grill. I have found the fan grill the best. It should take about 50 mins to cook.
The marinade should be just about burnt onto the meat.


enjoy