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View Full Version : Has feminism been good for women ?



limepile
06-08-2010, 05:31 PM
Been in a heated discussion with a friend over the ditch who believes the world is a way better place because of feminism. My wife doesn't think so.( I won't go into why just now )

As a bloke its hard to know because we see the world a lot differently. So who is right ( I have to agree with my wife, cos I love her and cos I'm a bloke )

I'm particularly interested in womens opinions although I know I'm gonna get some smarta**s comments as well.

Thanks in advance for educating me .

gary67
06-08-2010, 05:44 PM
In some ways yes in other ways no

SP8's
06-08-2010, 05:51 PM
( I have to agree with my wife, cos I love her and cos I'm a bloke )

Maybe for women ... but look what it's done for you ... :devil

Strommer
06-08-2010, 06:25 PM
What type of feminism, and in what era?
Militant feminists of the late 70's were a different group.
Some fought / are fighting for equal pay, some were / are against sexist language, others wanted/want entrance into male only jobs or clubs. There are many issues. It would be similar to ask "Are Maoris good people?" In relation to what, when, where?

It appears to me that when a group is judged or criticized, it is often the outspoken militants that many people have a problem with.

pctek
06-08-2010, 06:27 PM
Been in a heated discussion with a friend over the ditch who believes the world is a way better place because of feminism. My wife doesn't think so.( I won't go into why just now )



I would say yes.
Men would probably say no.

Take a look at how woman live in countries that don't have feminism and that tells you all you need to know.

In England even, woman couldn't own property so if your husband died and there was no older male child you were evicted and tough luck, go to the workhouse.

Never mind all the silly bra rubbish and nit-picking now - they were the main issues, to stop being treated worse than the dog. People forget that.

Snorkbox
06-08-2010, 06:33 PM
I'm all for equal pay for Women if they are doing the same job as a Guy.

But then does that also mean they should get an equal chance of getting to sit down on a seat in a bus after work? Or should Men do the gentlemany thing and stand up so the Woman can sit?

Greven
06-08-2010, 07:15 PM
does that also mean they should get an equal chance of getting to sit down on a seat in a bus after work? Or should Men do the gentlemany thing and stand up so the Woman can sit?

Women are our equals now so the current generation does not engage in such unnecessary practices. Unfortunately the elderly have lost their privileges too, but not down in Invercargill - the bus is never full enough for that to be an issue.

limepile
06-08-2010, 08:58 PM
I guess I mean since the 70"s.
She would be one of the militant feminazis.
She says that it was necessary ( militant feminism ) to protect women from men. I tend to think that the world is not a safer place for women, for instance, more women die in domestic violence incidents now.

I wonder if the level of respect has gone down ? And if so, can that be blamed on feminism or something else ?

The rules of society changed and whilst freedom was won for women, I believe it also freed men from some of the conventions that curbed their behavior , without replacing those constraints with anything meaningful. My point is that men have been allowed to behave as they like, to the detriment of society.

But I have been known to be wrong.

johcar
06-08-2010, 10:12 PM
I think the status of women in today's society is a tad more complex than the fact of feminism alone, and although that movement certainly has brought a number of improvements, I suspect that is balanced by the negative aspects (such as respect for women having diminished by the fact that they are now - ostensibly - on an equal footing with men).

I suspect a sizeable persentage of women regret having come down to the same level as men... :)

Snorkbox
06-08-2010, 10:58 PM
All people are equal but it appears that some are more equal than others.

Men have been denigrated over the years so that some will not take up occupations like teaching for example and in my opinion this has lead to some men not even knowing what their roles are in today's society.

Some time back some men wanted to be nurses and care for the sick. Women jumped on that idea as nursing was an occupation tradtionally reserved for the female gender and this was not due to feminism as such as it became later.

SurferJoe46
07-08-2010, 07:48 AM
I think it's a double edged sword for sure.

Some things like women being chattel and owned with no property rights or power to succession in ownership without a male child survivor is all very valid now that it is done away with.

There are many other benefits that are too numerous to list here - but frankly many of these newly established rights are counter-intuitive, and not just in acts of chivalry that are no longer existent.

I still open doors for women and gently/fondly hold the hands of those older than I as a sign of respect and admiration of all the lessons of life learned by these women.

But if a woman took my job because she's a woman and deserves a break - one that I didn't get just because of her sex - then it's all in a cocked hat.

There was a case where a woman got a job with the railroad here in the US as a 'switcher' - where that person is responsible for changing the knuckles on train cars in a switch yard.

She was diminutive in stature and they had to hire a guy to unlatch, carry and re-install them on other train cars as she stood by and watched.

She couldn't carry the 180+lb knuckles and needed a little 'help'.

All the time she was on a payroll with double overtime, health insurance and yet she could not perform the task for which she forced her hire.

That's just wrong on all levels.

Talents aside - physical prowess is still prolly a very viable determination for the suitability of a job or occupation and I even shudder at women in combat or being inserted as a member of a military fighting unit, even if it's somewhat rear echelon things.

That is just being non-PC I guess by me - but women should not be allowed in harm's way.

angry
07-08-2010, 08:04 AM
NO,

The hairy legged ones gain a lot, the rest got equal pay for not equal work.

Then lost so much in the way of respect social standing and generall treatment.

In 1960, if you drove past a woman with a flat tyre you stopped and changed it for her even if she was doing ok by her self, and didnt need or want your help.

You did not try to use this occourence to try and have sex with her.

Today you drive past them in the pooring rain, because girls can do anything so "you get on with it girl" and that sums up the generall attitude and change.
==
"That is just being non-PC I guess by me - but women should not be allowed in harm's way."

They want to be equally.

There is no reason why this should not include conscription to harms way harms.

They must not be allowed to have their cake and eat it too.

pctek
07-08-2010, 09:30 AM
the rest got equal pay for not equal work.

In 1960, if you drove past a woman with a flat tyre you stopped and changed it for her even if she was doing ok by her self, and didnt need or want your help.

Today you drive past them in the pooring rain, because girls can do anything so "you get on with it girl" and that sums up the generall attitude and change.

.
Why would you change it if she didn't want you to? That's stupid.
And again, why drive past now?
We stop and ask people who look like they need help with cars, if they say they are fine, then we go, if not we help. What ever their gender.
That's just being nice, nothing to do with feminism.

gary67
07-08-2010, 09:50 AM
WE have an old fashioned household I go to work and my wife stays home and does the cooking, cleaning, gardening, pets etc during the week. It's great when I get home just after 5pm tea is cooked I do the dishes with her son then we get to sit down together, or go for a walk or play on our respective computers for the rest of the evening. A few years ago when I was recovering from major shoulder surgery the roles were reversed.

I find it fantastic that we can spend all our evenings together if we choose rather than stressing about all the chores that need doing

angry
07-08-2010, 11:14 AM
Why would you change it if she didn't want you to? That's stupid.
And again, why drive past now?
We stop and ask people who look like they need help with cars, if they say they are fine, then we go, if not we help. What ever their gender.
That's just being nice, nothing to do with feminism.

you missed the analogy, its a bit masquline.

"its a bit masquline" is not meant in a sexist manner.

Metla
07-08-2010, 12:41 PM
The world doesn't care, Nor does it impact on anything.

Cicero
07-08-2010, 04:24 PM
The world doesn't care, Nor does it impact on anything.

I think PCtech cares!

Sue
07-08-2010, 07:18 PM
As an older female most of the changes have been good.
I can now buy items on HP without a males signature. I can own my own house. My children are mine or ours, they are not owned by my husband. I am no longer a chattel under law.
Could go on but generally Yes, It's been good for women.

Metla
07-08-2010, 08:26 PM
You may have the illusion of freedom but you are still our pets.

goodiesguy
07-08-2010, 08:46 PM
feminism is good to a certain extent. what i don't like is political correctness. we should be able to be benny hill's anywhere and everything

ubergeek85
08-08-2010, 12:11 AM
I can't help but be reminded of the latest cover of time magazine.

Horrific is one thing I can say about it.

I'm all for equal rights. But SurferJoe shared a good example of where Political Correctness goes too far. Let's not beat around the bush, there's simply some jobs where males exceed by far, but the reverse is true too.

There are women who could easily carry 180+lb (81.6Kg for the rest of us) knuckles, but they're not exactly common. Hell, even I used to be able to carry 54Kg's worth of milk (three crates, at roughly 18Kg each) at once. I'm not ashamed to say; good luck finding a regular work-a-day woman who can do that all day.

R2x1
08-08-2010, 12:51 AM
In some ways yes in other ways no
Sorry, it is quite the reverse.

R2x1
08-08-2010, 12:58 AM
The Dragon is pretty emphatic that her change of country 12 years ago was a major leap to emancipation. Also a leap from peasant feudalism under state rule to being allowed to belt the crap out of me if I am not careful. ;)

SurferJoe46
08-08-2010, 02:54 AM
I guess the season's too cool in Upsidedown Land to organize a Chaucerian Walkabout to make your point though.

I miss the old days of women marching naked in the streets to protest crass sexism. What I'm saying is that I actually miss the old binary system though.

Anyway: Hooray for Geoffrey, wherever you are.

Cicero
08-08-2010, 05:41 AM
You may have the illusion of freedom but you are still our pets.

Try reading ,Taming of the Shrew and see if that holds water.

SurferJoe46
08-08-2010, 08:43 AM
Don't get Metla all excited - tell him there's no centerfold in it.

pctek
08-08-2010, 09:37 AM
WE have an old fashioned household I go to work and my wife stays home and does the cooking, cleaning, gardening, pets etc during the week.

I know one or two old fashioned households where the woman does the cooking, cleaning, gardening, pets etc and goes to work as well.