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View Full Version : New desktop - suggestions please? Update for your comments...



R.M.
23-07-2010, 07:26 PM
I asked recently about a new desktop for self, main use would be Photoshop (and other things too). This was suggested by Computerlounge:

'Intel Core i7 930 Nehalem 280Ghz 8MB LGA1366 ASUS P6X58D-E Intel X58 Core I7 PCI-E DDR3 LGA1366 Kingston HyperX 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3-1600 CL9 Prolimatech Megahalems CPU Cooler LGA1366 Arctic Cooling F12 Fan Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 7200RPM SATA II LG GH-22LS50 22X LightScribe Black SATA DVD Writer Lian-Li PC-A05NB Aluminium ATX Mini Tower, Black EVGA nVidia Geforce GTX470 768MB Super Clocked GDDR5 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit OEM Standard Hardware Installation and Configuration Overclocking

Total = $2679 Incl GST'

What's your thought on this? :)

Yukrato
23-07-2010, 08:05 PM
Can you put one piece of the computer per line, its easier to read
So like this

CPU
Motherboard
RAM
Hard Drive
etc

gary67
23-07-2010, 08:10 PM
I'm not a fan of Samsung hard drives just a personal thing really

R.M.
23-07-2010, 10:12 PM
Can you put one piece of the computer per line, its easier to read
So like this

CPU
Motherboard
RAM
Hard Drive
etc

That was how it was sent to me, and I was short of time...:(

qazwsxokmijn
23-07-2010, 10:38 PM
Are you sure it's a GTX 470? GTX 470s only come in 1280MB of RAM, what you're getting is a 768MB GTX 470...which doesn't exist.

The only 768MB GTX 4xx card is a GTX 460.

Other than that, it's a beast. So is the card, even if it's only a mid-end card.

wainuitech
23-07-2010, 10:42 PM
Nice spec's but an over kill. heres the minimum (http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshop/systemreqs/) spec's for photo shop - WAY WAY under the ones suggested.

When you say "and other things too' -- Like what ?

hueybot3000
23-07-2010, 10:47 PM
What's the power supply?

Like I suggested in your other thread I would look more at 1156 setups.

But if your happy with that setup I would check what PSU is and maybe swap out the graphics for an ATI card. I believe they are better value for $$$$

btw what do they mean by "Configuration Overclocking"? Is this going to be pre overclocked?

Otherwise pretty nice build

R.M.
23-07-2010, 11:15 PM
Nice spec's but an over kill. heres the minimum (http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshop/systemreqs/) spec's for photo shop - WAY WAY under the ones suggested.

When you say "and other things too' -- Like what ?

Yes, I know that, but like lots of other things, the minimum specs give barely acceptably usable results...

'Other things'. I think that my Photoshop use is the most resource hungry thing I do. I also a lot of newsletter work, email stuff, presentation preparation, putting together slide shows. This might involve putting music/dialogue in, splicing music, and of course I am doing several things at once... But really it is the Photoshop that uses most resources.

wainuitech
23-07-2010, 11:44 PM
Totally up to you of course, but no need to spend lots of money on a PC that's way over the top power wise, unless you want to of course. (not my money so I dont really care).

Just as an example,a couple of weeks ago, I upgraded a customers business PC to CS4 from CS1 (they run a sign business with dedicated commercial laser printers connected to the PC) the PC's spec's are P4 3.0, RAM 1.5GB, onboard graphics, 2 x 250GB drives -- and after talking to him earlier this week, he has said there's no problems at all.

Well only one ;) -- He has to relearn how to use CS4 since its quite different to the original.

The whole point of the example is simply to show, dont be fooled into thinking a person has to have a "beast" of a PC to run the program.

Sure lots here say build it BIG (if you want to spend lots then thats up to you) -- but they are not the ones paying for "their dream machine" that you would be using.

Edited: I'm with gary -- I personally wouldn't use Samsung as a HDD, OR LG optical Drives. I used to use LG for a while in builds, but found out at least 75% would fail within a year.

wainuitech
24-07-2010, 12:14 AM
Just for info sake - a list of GTX cards and their specs From a testing site (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/30321-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-review-2.html) According to that - the 470 has "slightly" more than 786MB memory.(1.28GB)

Nomad
24-07-2010, 09:43 AM
Totally up to you of course, but no need to spend lots of money on a PC that's way over the top power wise, unless you want to of course. (not my money so I dont really care).

Just as an example,a couple of weeks ago, I upgraded a customers business PC to CS4 from CS1 (they run a sign business with dedicated commercial laser printers connected to the PC) the PC's spec's are P4 3.0, RAM 1.5GB, onboard graphics, 2 x 250GB drives -- and after talking to him earlier this week, he has said there's no problems at all.

Well only one ;) -- He has to relearn how to use CS4 since its quite different to the original.

The whole point of the example is simply to show, dont be fooled into thinking a person has to have a "beast" of a PC to run the program.

Sure lots here say build it BIG (if you want to spend lots then thats up to you) -- but they are not the ones paying for "their dream machine" that you would be using.

Edited: I'm with gary -- I personally wouldn't use Samsung as a HDD, OR LG optical Drives. I used to use LG for a while in builds, but found out at least 75% would fail within a year.


x2. Thou we had LG CDROM for 5yrs then now the DVDRW for 6+ :D
Don't get Sony, our DVD Player deck which was $900 in 1999 doesn't work now, my Sony MiniDisc was a fad anyway, doesn't record but plays.

Re: the PC, you don't need it but up to you. If you were scanning film, like 35mm format when one file could be 50-100MB and you were doing many of them like batch scanning and batch post processing but maybe, even better if you were shooting medium format film.

As a hobbyist I may PP 6 images for a SIG I belong to and maybe 1 or 2 A3 prints each 3 or so months .. and see if it can be selected. I shoot film still, 35mm formats scanned at 4,000 dpi, I do have large sizes but I had no probs PP them in PS CS4. Also played with my folk's 6x6 medium format film too. Maybe it also depends on what sorta rendering filters you wanna use and with that how much paitence and your workload.

R.M.
24-07-2010, 11:05 AM
Thanks for all your replies. I'll have to sit and 'digest' them. This was just the first suggestion from Computerlounge for me to consider.

Various reply comments:
I have always used Seagate HDDs, the one I had problems with was replaced under warrenty. Interested in your comments about Samsung.

I use (currently) Pioneer cdrom drives - no probs there either (had ?BM that died very quickly, but that's a long time ago now).

Wainui - I understand your comments about 'more than I need' computer power (but this might be the last I buy while in paid employment...), so a bit of 'head room' might be useful (or not, if you tell me so!).

Nomad - I'm totally digital in my photography now. I do a small bit of scanning, but pretty low key stuff.

Probably I need to spend some time thinking about monitors - NEC seems to get good kudos. I THOUGHT I had researched my last monitor (Samsung) but on relooking now, it doesn't look so good. :(

And no - I don't do any gaming (my son does...).But at his house, on his gear.

Or do you think I should just go down to Hardly Normals and look at what they have???! :)

wainuitech
24-07-2010, 11:25 AM
The following are personal comments, but there's on that almost every one will agree on :D (Guess)

*HDD's -- Seagate are fine, used them for a long time as well as Western Digital. Only real problem with seagates were when they had their little firmware issue a while back, but thats fixed now. Samsung - personally I see more failures,mainly from older ones (3+ years old)

*These days I use Asus or Liteon Optical drives, from memory one of those are basically Pioneer re-branded anyway( maybe someone can confirm that). Once again, samsung tend to die to often.

*More Power Than Needed --- If you have the money and are quite happy to spend ???? then go for it, always better to have more power than not enough, the whole point I was making before is you dont "have" to be that powerful. Having a bit of 'head room' is fine.

*Monitors - Funny things really -- some are better than others - one good test is to go to someplace that has one going on display, see if you like what you see, different people like different outputs. Dont go buying cheap rubbish though - you'll "pay for it" later on :)

*
do you think I should just go down to Hardly Normals and look at what they have NO BLOODY WAY :mad:

You will be 100% better off with a custom built PC, you wont get all the crap apps the name brand put in, and a custom one will be built to what you want and be a lot better all round and keep Norton off of it, other wise you will need all that power.

* one thing you dont skimp on is a GOOD power Supply - having a cheapo, or lower power will only cause problems. Something like Corsair are a good brand.

R.M.
24-07-2010, 03:46 PM
'Quote:
do you think I should just go down to Hardly Normals and look at what they have

NO BLOODY WAY'

Got the reponse I expected/hoped for! :devil

What do you think of the case - a mini tower? That would be new for me. What are the limitations?

wainuitech
24-07-2010, 05:01 PM
The CASE (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=9410) -- LIAN-LI are a good brand, usually well built.

The case is very plain looking, depends if you like it or not - its you that has to look at it :D Some people like all the bells and whistles with flashing lights , has to look a certain way -- thats a personal preference.

One thing I did notice, it doesn't mention what Power Supply in the spec's, so I would assume you have to select one your self ? The power Supply is also not mentioned in the quote as far as I can see ??? Kind of need one of those ;)

SWMBO when I asked her what she wanted for Her PC, she said a cardboard box for all she cares :lol: -- Not quite, so we all have These (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=7209) (with Corsair PSU's), and the Elite 332 which computerlounge dont have.

The main limitations of a mini case, -- Tighter space for components, you may find some graphic cards wont fit, you have to be more careful when wiring up, nice and tidy, tucked out the way as much as possible to improve airflow.

You building this your self from the parts they supply or having it prebuilt ?

R.M.
24-07-2010, 05:23 PM
Pre built. But I then want the ability for us (Himself & Meself) to upgrade/add bits and pieces. Hoho!

I don't really care about the bells and whistles, but like it to be functional, well ventilated and I suppose looking not too peculiar. And yes, I had a look at the pic of the case. Fairly plain pic - thought you might have been able to turn it around (or something).

Yes, I searched through that list (difficult to read, isn't it?) and couldn't see a power supply either. But then I'm not that good at reading that sort of list... Can do lists of medical ailments better. :)

hueybot3000
24-07-2010, 10:50 PM
You may have to ask CL what the PSU is. Often a case will come with some rubbish PSU and they may just be using that.

For photoshop this would be a bit overkill, I can chop away quite happily even on my laptop (1.8ghz Core 2, 3GB Ram, Intel Graphics) until images get so big that I run out of ram.

If you deal with large images (upwards of 2000x2000 px) I would consider more ram. Even as much as 12GB isn't really a waste. And the i7 870 would be a great CPU for that sorta thing as it gives you the same grunt of the 1366 CPU's but less cost so more money for ram.

AFAIK photoshop doesn't really have a use for graphics cards? So you could probaly cut that down if you're definitely not a gamer.

Future proof sounds important to you so I would be spending the extra on quality brands (especially PSU) and it will run forever. I can't see photoshop or anything like that becoming hugely more demandin anytime soon and with any i7 build your gonna have more grunt than you can use anyway.

Also spending a bit more on a mouse would be a good call if you use it alot with photoshop!

plod
25-07-2010, 12:11 AM
I would also suggest a second HDD to be used as a scratch drive for PS, a old one laying around will do.

R.M.
25-07-2010, 09:20 AM
I would also suggest a second HDD to be used as a scratch drive for PS, a old one laying around will do.

Ahh - I plan to do that! One of the two drives in the current system. The other will become yet another external backup drive on the desktop... :)

R.M.
25-07-2010, 09:31 AM
You may have to ask CL what the PSU is. Often a case will come with some rubbish PSU and they may just be using that.

For photoshop this would be a bit overkill, I can chop away quite happily even on my laptop (1.8ghz Core 2, 3GB Ram, Intel Graphics) until images get so big that I run out of ram.

If you deal with large images (upwards of 2000x2000 px) I would consider more ram. Even as much as 12GB isn't really a waste. And the i7 870 would be a great CPU for that sorta thing as it gives you the same grunt of the 1366 CPU's but less cost so more money for ram.

AFAIK photoshop doesn't really have a use for graphics cards? So you could probaly cut that down if you're definitely not a gamer.

Future proof sounds important to you so I would be spending the extra on quality brands (especially PSU) and it will run forever. I can't see photoshop or anything like that becoming hugely more demandin anytime soon and with any i7 build your gonna have more grunt than you can use anyway.

Also spending a bit more on a mouse would be a good call if you use it alot with photoshop!

Good comments - thanks! Another forum (photographic, and I've just been reading, not submitting questions) seems to suggest that a lighter weight graphics card (but not to the level for gaming) is a good idea for particularly CS5.

I want (not need) a Natural ergonomic key. What would you suggest for a mouse?

By the way, my starting size for pics is 5184 x 3456 (or vice versa) and that's before I add layers....

Snorkbox
25-07-2010, 10:05 AM
I would definitely recommend a Corsair PSU and preferably a modular version for cable management.

Also I like Seagate drives over Samsung.

wainuitech
25-07-2010, 10:37 AM
Good comments - thanks! Another forum (photographic, and I've just been reading, not submitting questions) seems to suggest that a lighter weight graphics card (but not to the level for gaming) is a good idea for particularly CS5.

I want (not need) a Natural ergonomic key. What would you suggest for a mouse?

By the way, my starting size for pics is 5184 x 3456 (or vice versa) and that's before I add layers.... I can advise on the Graphic card after tomorrow -- The business I mentioned before, they got a free upgrade from CS4 to CS5 from adobe.

The spec's from adobe suggest
graphics card, 16-bit color, and 256MB of VRAM Since their onboard graphics are going to be a struggle, I'm installing This graphic Card (http://www.dove.co.nz/jump/4855) - being AGP, kind of limited these days.

Should be interesting to see how it all goes.

R.M.
25-07-2010, 11:34 AM
I can advise on the Graphic card after tomorrow .

I'll look forward to your comments. Thanks. :)

plod
25-07-2010, 11:58 AM
I can advise on the Graphic card after tomorrow -- The business I mentioned before, they got a free upgrade from CS4 to CS5 from adobe.

The spec's from adobe suggest Since their onboard graphics are going to be a struggle, I'm installing This graphic Card (http://www.dove.co.nz/jump/4855) - being AGP, kind of limited these days.

Should be interesting to see how it all goes.
I'm very surprised your client hasn't gone for a 64bit system. Especially since by the sounds of it they are using this machine as a production machine and a rip.

wainuitech
25-07-2010, 12:02 PM
I'm very surprised your client hasn't gone for a 64bit system. Especially since by the sounds of it they are using this machine as a production machine and a rip. They have XP machines , they are at least 5 years old. I was actually a little surprised it does what it does (being an HP as well) -- But it seems to work OK.

They are thinking of Upgrading the PC's when this one finally kicks the bucket - but for the mean time it does what they need.

plod
25-07-2010, 12:05 PM
They have XP machines , they are at least 5 years old. I was actually a little surprised it does what it does (being an HP as well) -- But it seems to work OK.

They are thinking of Upgrading the PC's when this one finally kicks the bucket - but for the mean time it does what they need.
Nothing wrong with Xp, 2 of our dedicated rips are both running Xp. and they are both Dell.

R.M.
25-07-2010, 12:17 PM
Oh, and another thing - which Corsair PSU do you think?

R.M.
26-07-2010, 07:12 PM
Here is CL's today's reply to my questions...

'I cannot really recommend Seagate HDD's at the moment as we have had A LOT of issues with them dying at the moment :(

DVD Drives are all very similar, I wouldn't worry so much about the brand as they are VERY unlikely to die and LG are very good for warranty;

OEM Windows does come with a CD :) but you will have to ring them to activate it once reinstalled, but this goes for Retail also.

The Case is Full ATX, just smaller in size :)

- Intel Core i7 930 Nehalem 280Ghz 8MB LGA1366

- ASUS P6X58D-E Intel X58 Core I7 PCI-E DDR3 LGA1366

- Kingston HyperX 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3-1600 CL9

- Prolimatech Megahalems CPU Cooler LGA1366 + Arctic Cooling F12 Fan

- Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 7200RPM SATA II

- LG GH-22LS50 22X LightScribe Black SATA DVD Writer

- Corsair HX650 650W Modular Power Supply

- Lian-Li PC-A05NB Aluminium ATX Mini Tower, Black

- EVGA nVidia Geforce GTX470 768MB Super Clocked GDDR5

- Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit OEM

- Standard Hardware Installation and Configuration Overclocking

Total = $2679 Incl GST

For Monitor, for graphic design I would recommend the HP ZR24W;

This is an IPS Monitor, which will give you much more realistic reproduction of colours (more lifelike)

This will help with Photoshop tremendously; this is $589 Incl GST'

I haven't asked yet if my printers, tablet and scanner will work with this setup. You'll see they are keen on selling a Samsung HDD.

Wainui - you were going to make comment on the graphics card - maybe I can save some money there. And I have to admit I'm not all that shook on the case...

Your comments are most welcome. :)

Snorkbox
26-07-2010, 07:17 PM
Corsair HX650 650W Modular Power Supply.

That one is fine.

wainuitech
26-07-2010, 09:32 PM
Wainui - you were going to make comment on the graphics card - maybe I can save some money there. And I have to admit I'm not all that shook on the case... Couldn't install it today, they got a rather large order late Friday, and completely forgot I was coming this morning - so the works been re-scheduled for tomorrow.

Just a comment re the case and any other components -- Just remember -- its your money, you're the customer, don't let them bully you by saying you have to have a certain part.


Just some comments on their replies:


OEM Windows does come with a CD but you will have to ring them to activate it once reinstalled, but this goes for Retail also. Utter crap :groan: -- if its a new install, and the COA never been used before it should activate with out any problems, no phone calls needed (OEM or Retail). IF it were on an existing PC, then that would be the case ( maybe) but OEM is meant to be for one PC not transferable.

DVD Drives are all very similar, I wouldn't worry so much about the brand as they are VERY unlikely to die OH REALLY :eek:


Foot Note:

As for the Warranty -- Nothing been mentioned but the Asus motherboard, Samsung HDD come with a THREE year warranty from the manufactures -- If they say its only one or two year, then I'd be asking why since the manufactures is 3 year. The Graphic Card has a Limited Lifetime Warranty ( but -- products purchased in North America)
This limited lifetime warranty is valid for the life of the retail product, so long as the original purchaser owns the product, based upon the following conditions: Conditions Here (http://www.evga.com/support/warranty/) under limited Lifetime.

qazwsxokmijn
26-07-2010, 09:38 PM
You're not gaming at all are you? As I have pointed out before there is no such thing as a 768MB GTX 470. GTX 470s only come with 1.28GB of memory. GTX 460s come in 768MB (and 1GB, but that's irrelevant).

Even if it is actually a GTX 460 you're getting, it's still an overkill and if you don't game at all even a GeForce GT210 or anything below a Radeon 5570 would suffice.

wainuitech
26-07-2010, 09:49 PM
Damn- Ran out of time above :crying

Edited: if I read this right.

For Monitor, for graphic design I would recommend the HP ZR24W

Total = $2679 Incl GST + $589 Incl GST'

Total =$3268

Greven
26-07-2010, 09:50 PM
What's the power supply?

Like I suggested in your other thread I would look more at 1156 setups.

But if your happy with that setup I would check what PSU is and maybe swap out the graphics for an ATI card. I believe they are better value for $$$$

btw what do they mean by "Configuration Overclocking"? Is this going to be pre overclocked?

Otherwise pretty nice build

Does CS4 support hardware acceleration on ATI cards yet? I thought it was only Nvidia cards it used.

A mid-range card should be fine for photoshop.

R.M.
27-07-2010, 08:24 AM
Damn- Ran out of time above :crying

Edited: if I read this right.

For Monitor, for graphic design I would recommend the HP ZR24W

Total = $2679 Incl GST + $589 Incl GST'

Total =$3268

That's how I read that too... Pleased you like the monitor though.:)

R.M.
27-07-2010, 08:30 AM
You're not gaming at all are you? As I have pointed out before there is no such thing as a 768MB GTX 470. GTX 470s only come with 1.28GB of memory. GTX 460s come in 768MB (and 1GB, but that's irrelevant).

Even if it is actually a GTX 460 you're getting, it's still an overkill and if you don't game at all even a GeForce GT210 or anything below a Radeon 5570 would suffice.

Yes - I'm asking about this (but I trust the info/input from you guys and gals more!). :)

Now I must get ready for work - to pay for this lot.:(

Deimos
27-07-2010, 11:06 AM
Does CS4 support hardware acceleration on ATI cards yet?

Yes

R.M.
28-07-2010, 06:25 PM
While researching the suggested case online today I came across this:

Discontinued Product
This item has been discontinued by the manufacturer or vendor and is no longer available. Overseas site, I think.

Should that worry me? What other alternatives would you suggest?

TIA :)

Snorkbox
28-07-2010, 07:06 PM
The case is only a box in which to keep assorted hardware. You are unlikley to want spare parts for the box unless maybe a power switch.

Personally I'd be quite happy with anything by Thermaltake or Lian-Li. Just ensure you get a box that will take further upgrades. A full size case is better so long as you have room on the desk or in the desk. If you are planning on swapping hardware on a regular basis then try a tool less case.

On the other hand if you want to remove said case and move it around a lot then I guess smaller is better.