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View Full Version : Don't Go To Prison If You Smoke.



Trev
27-06-2010, 05:08 PM
Here. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10654766)
:)

Sweep
27-06-2010, 05:17 PM
It would not worry me. I do smoke but I would take up other drugs that seem to be readily available instead if I went to prison.

bob_doe_nz
27-06-2010, 05:18 PM
About bloody time.

Now if they will allow smoking in RSA's that would be nice.

Scouse
27-06-2010, 05:22 PM
Of interest? Might be doing them a favour.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/27/smoking-ban-cars-with-children

Extract:
"Half of all smokers now support the smoke-free law, and nearly one in four strongly supports it. Opposition among smokers appears to be ebbing away with only one smoker in six strongly opposing the ban. The change appears to be underpinned by a deep-seated shift in smokers' attitudes, according to Ash. It claims smokers are increasingly aware of the danger from secondhand smoke, with 75% believing it is harmful to children's health."

Sweep
27-06-2010, 05:29 PM
Of interest? Might be doing them a favour.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/27/smoking-ban-cars-with-children

Extract:
"Half of all smokers now support the smoke-free law, and nearly one in four strongly supports it. Opposition among smokers appears to be ebbing away with only one smoker in six strongly opposing the ban. The change appears to be underpinned by a deep-seated shift in smokers' attitudes, according to Ash. It claims smokers are increasingly aware of the danger from secondhand smoke, with 75% believing it is harmful to children's health."

When ASH members collectively donate to the Government what tax is collected currently from smokers I will give up smoking.

prefect
27-06-2010, 05:38 PM
Good news that scum crooks cant smoke in jail.
I guess most of the scum crooks smoke so its is more punishment, victims of the scum crooks will feel better knowing they are hanging out for a fag.
Just shoot them like they do in the USA when they riot, so NZ will need to give our prison officers some nice short barrel pump action shotguns loaded with zero zero shot.

Cato
27-06-2010, 05:46 PM
Of interest? Might be doing them a favour.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/27/smoking-ban-cars-with-children

Extract:
"Half of all smokers now support the smoke-free law, and nearly one in four strongly supports it. Opposition among smokers appears to be ebbing away with only one smoker in six strongly opposing the ban. The change appears to be underpinned by a deep-seated shift in smokers' attitudes, according to Ash. It claims smokers are increasingly aware of the danger from secondhand smoke, with 75% believing it is harmful to children's health."

Too right. Shouldn't smoke in a car with kids. And I say that as a smoker.

^^ Prefect, they can get P and cannabis in prison, do you think a law will stop them smoking cigarettes?
If anything they will be smoking more cannabis and P. Personally I say we stop feeding those bastards altogether. Solves everyone's problems.

prefect
27-06-2010, 05:51 PM
I am sure a little baccy will smuggled into the prisons, but there is a plus side when the rellies of scum crooks get caught smuggling stuff they lose visitation rights for a year.
So the punishment of the crook is further increased and the victims will feel better still when they hear about it.
Christ I love this new minister of justice shes a gutsy hua.
Most prison officers smoke so they are going to be grumpy going all day without a smoke so the scum crooks are going to get it.

Roscoe
27-06-2010, 07:34 PM
When ASH members collectively donate to the Government what tax is collected currently from smokers I will give up smoking.

And here I was thinking that you might consider giving up smoking because of the harm you are doing to yourself.:rolleyes:

More than 4500 people die annually from smoking related causes in NZ and it is the leading cause of preventable deaths. Lifetime smokers have a 50% chance of being killed by smoking and loose and average of 14 life years. The World Health Oganisation estimates that around 9% of deaths worldwide are directly attributable to smoking. (from Wikipedia.)

You may have had an excuse if you smoked in the 50s or 60s, but there is no excuse in this enlightened age.

The best definition of smoking is: Suicide by installments.

I definitely agree with banning smoking in prisons.

paulw
27-06-2010, 08:02 PM
I see lawyer Peter Williams and his crim loving lot are against is. Not surprising a they are pretty soft on crime..

Sweep
27-06-2010, 09:44 PM
And here I was thinking that you might consider giving up smoking because of the harm you are doing to yourself.:rolleyes:

More than 4500 people die annually from smoking related causes in NZ and it is the leading cause of preventable deaths. Lifetime smokers have a 50% chance of being killed by smoking and loose and average of 14 life years. The World Health Oganisation estimates that around 9% of deaths worldwide are directly attributable to smoking. (from Wikipedia.)

You may have had an excuse if you smoked in the 50s or 60s, but there is no excuse in this enlightened age.

The best definition of smoking is: Suicide by installments.

I definitely agree with banning smoking in prisons.

For the record I started smoking in 1957. Next month I will be 68 if I make it that far. According to the likes of you I should be dead already.

I live alone so I'm not affecting others by my secondhand smoke. I don't smoke in places it would be affecting others.

Wonders how many deaths world wide are attributable to illegal drugs. Do we include drug smugglers who get executed after being caught in some countries? Your quote from Wikipedia seems like either not a direct quote or there are serious mistakes in the spelling so why should I believe any of it?

Suicide by installments? Better stop a diet of fast food too then.

I'd better stop driving too.

mikebartnz
27-06-2010, 09:45 PM
When ASH members collectively donate to the Government what tax is collected currently from smokers I will give up smoking.
I'll join you and support you on that.:lol:

mikebartnz
27-06-2010, 09:47 PM
The World Health Oganisation estimates that around 9% of deaths worldwide are directly attributable to smoking. (from Wikipedia.)
That means that smoking has nothing to do with 91% of the deaths in the world. Kind of makes smoking look quite harmless.

ryanjames.powell
27-06-2010, 09:59 PM
When ASH members collectively donate to the Government what tax is collected currently from smokers I will give up smoking.

You seem to be forgetting that yes, the government is making a lot of money out of tobacco tax, but how much of that is spent on healthcare because of tobacco and other tobacco related costs? I think you'll find if everyone stopped smoking, the government wouldn't miss the money.

ryanjames.powell
27-06-2010, 10:01 PM
That means that smoking has nothing to do with 91% of the deaths in the world. Kind of makes smoking look quite harmless.

In what world is 9% not a very large number of deaths???

Sweep
27-06-2010, 10:05 PM
In what world does banning anything actually work?

Trev
27-06-2010, 10:34 PM
On a less serious note, you might find a drop in the crime rate when crims find out that they can't smoke in jail.
:)

Trev
27-06-2010, 10:37 PM
For the record I started smoking in 1957. Next month I will be 68 if I make it that far. According to the likes of you I should be dead already.

I live alone so I'm not affecting others by my secondhand smoke. I don't smoke in places it would be affecting others.

Wonders how many deaths world wide are attributable to illegal drugs. Do we include drug smugglers who get executed after being caught in some countries? Your quote from Wikipedia seems like either not a direct quote or there are serious mistakes in the spelling so why should I believe any of it?

Suicide by installments? Better stop a diet of fast food too then.

I'd better stop driving too.

Count yourself one of the lucky ones sweep. I have a 76 year old friend who has emphysema from smoking most of his life. He gave up about 15 years ago. He can't even wash his car without gasping for breath.
:)

Metla
27-06-2010, 10:38 PM
You seem to be forgetting that yes, the government is making a lot of money out of tobacco tax, but how much of that is spent on healthcare because of tobacco and other tobacco related costs? I think you'll find if everyone stopped smoking, the government wouldn't miss the money.

Medical costs for smoking related illness $600 million annually
Tax collected through sales of tobacco 1 billion.

Smokers are subsidising health care for non-smokers.

prefect
27-06-2010, 10:42 PM
Smoke Choke Croak
I suppose one disadvantage is the crooks will live longer if they arent smoking in jail, this means more offending.

mikebartnz
27-06-2010, 10:50 PM
You seem to be forgetting that yes, the government is making a lot of money out of tobacco tax, but how much of that is spent on healthcare because of tobacco and other tobacco related costs? I think you'll find if everyone stopped smoking, the government wouldn't miss the money.
Because we smokers are meant to fall off our perch 14 years earlier(according to an earlier post) you will find the cost of the old age pension and the related health issues go up so I think they would miss that money.

mikebartnz
27-06-2010, 10:54 PM
On a less serious note, you might find a drop in the crime rate when crims find out that they can't smoke in jail.:)
What do you mean by can't as they seem to be able to get weed and other drugs in there.

Sweep
27-06-2010, 11:06 PM
Way back in the past I lived in Wellington and Mount Crawford was a prison. They used to put apple peelings and sugar into the toilet cisterns to ferment and thereby create alcoholic drinks.

Where there is a will there will be a way.

Roscoe
28-06-2010, 12:39 AM
For the record I started smoking in 1957. Next month I will be 68 if I make it that far. According to the likes of you I should be dead already.

I live alone so I'm not affecting others by my secondhand smoke. I don't smoke in places it would be affecting others.

Wonders how many deaths world wide are attributable to illegal drugs. Do we include drug smugglers who get executed after being caught in some countries? Your quote from Wikipedia seems like either not a direct quote or there are serious mistakes in the spelling so why should I believe any of it?

Suicide by installments? Better stop a diet of fast food too then.

I'd better stop driving too.

It's obvious by your comments that you don't give a stuff, in fact you treat the whole thing as a big joke. It sounds as though you are proud of the fact that you have smoked for so long.

Just because you have reached the not so old age of 68 does not mean that smoking is harmless. It affects different people in different ways.

I have seen the effects of years of smoking and how it kills. I watched my father die of stomach and lung cancer from many years of pipe smoking. It was not pretty.

Watching someone die from cancer is no joke. If you had seen what I have seen I'm certain you would give it away.

But then, perhaps not. It's all a bit of a laugh, eh?:illogical

ubergeek85
28-06-2010, 12:52 AM
I smoke. Yes, I know there's a high chance of it giving me cancer. I've seen two people that I knew quite well die from it. One guy left a wife and daughter behind. It's not nice.

I could get hit by a car tomorrow. I could be paralysed for the rest of my life.

I, and every other person in the world, could die at any moment, for whatever reason. Life's too short to **** round. I say, be happy while you still can.


Let us eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we may die

mikebartnz
28-06-2010, 01:05 AM
It's obvious by your comments that you don't give a stuff, in fact you treat the whole thing as a big joke. It sounds as though you are proud of the fact that you have smoked for so long.

Just because you have reached the not so old age of 68 does not mean that smoking is harmless. It affects different people in different ways.

I have seen the effects of years of smoking and how it kills. I watched my father die of stomach and lung cancer from many years of pipe smoking. It was not pretty.

Watching someone die from cancer is no joke. If you had seen what I have seen I'm certain you would give it away.

But then, perhaps not. It's all a bit of a laugh, eh?:illogical
Don't get so excited he is not treating it as a big joke he is probably just getting sick of smoking being a political football like global warming.
Like if the government of the day when they banned cigarette advertising in the media hadn't been such a bunch of wallies they would also have banned gambling and alcohol advertising and the Govt actually promotes gambling through the lotteries board.

prefect
28-06-2010, 01:17 AM
Cant blame the old buggas for smoking they are too thick to change, just let them die out.
Alcohol taken in moderation is actually good for you and gambling does not directly kill you.
I think the justice dept is pretty onto smuggling stuff into prisons they do searches sooner or later they will catch the scum at the gates.
Anyway prison cigarette smokers need a cigarette every 15 minutes or so they are going to need cartons of baccy to feed their habit. Plus they will have to sneak a few puffs away from the guards its not going to be possible to satisfy the cravings. In fact a few smuggled ciggies will be good because it will string out their addiction and make it worse for them when there is no baccy
I can imagine some prisoners getting really bitchy without nicotine and it makes me feel real good.

mikebartnz
28-06-2010, 02:25 AM
Alcohol taken in moderation is actually good for you and gambling does not directly kill you.
It is not the alcohol drunk in moderation that is the problem. It wouldn't surprise me if alcohol was a greater drain on the resources than smoking. Police work and hospitals.
How many kids go to school without a proper breakfast because of gambling , and alcohol. I have heard of people gambling their houses away as well as unopened pay packets in the days gone by when you got paid in cash.
I heard over the radio a while back that NZer's spend about $13mill gambling and of that just over $10mill is on the old pokies. Those figures may not be exact but are pretty close to what I remember.

pctek
28-06-2010, 09:09 AM
Extract:
"Half of all smokers now support the smoke-free law, and nearly one in four strongly supports it. O

Bollocks. Propaganda.

As for Sweep, yes smoking is bad for you. So is drinking. For that matter life is fatal.
If smokers, aware of the risks want to smoke then the non-smokers should keep their sticky beaks out of it.

Or are we all in favour of banning certain foods and so on now because of some grossly fat people too?

As for diseases caused by smoking, lots of non-smokers get these diseases too, and always have done, even before the BS about 2nd hand smoke became an unproven fact.

SP8's
28-06-2010, 09:41 AM
I may be totally wrong ... but I was under the impression that it was illegal to smoke in any government building or indeed any workplace. I seem to remember that legislation was passed into law by government.

Prisons = government buildings, therefore, it should be illegal to smoke in them .... or have they been exempted because of human rights issues.

Maybe ALL prisoners should be made to smoke no less than 50 unfiltered ciggys a day and make there own coffins in work skills time !

Billy T
28-06-2010, 09:42 AM
For the record I started smoking in 1957. Next month I will be 68 if I make it that far. According to the likes of you I should be dead already.

I guess that's one way of looking at it Sweep, and from the sound of it you are a bit fatalistic about your future, but think of how many more years you might have ahead of you if you had never smoked, or if you stopped now? There is no way your health is not impaired, it just may not have reached a critical point as yet.

My father gave up smoking one day, possibly on his doctors advice, we will never know, but he just quit cold turkey. A year or so later he had a serious heart attack and he only just made it. He was in hospital for several months, and the doctors told us that had he still been smoking he would have had no show. He had another 15 good years, enough to see his grandchildren born and for them to grow old enough to remember him.

Our end is often a lot closer than we think, and smoking may not be the direct cause, but it can influence significantly the outcomes.

It is worth thinking about.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

SolMiester
28-06-2010, 10:19 AM
You seem to be forgetting that yes, the government is making a lot of money out of tobacco tax, but how much of that is spent on healthcare because of tobacco and other tobacco related costs? I think you'll find if everyone stopped smoking, the government wouldn't miss the money.

The monies collected by govt for tax supercedes the health care bill to smokers by over two fold, why dont you do some research!

prefect
28-06-2010, 10:21 AM
I may be totally wrong ... but I was under the impression that it was illegal to smoke in any government building or indeed any workplace. I seem to remember that legislation was passed into law by government.

Prisons = government buildings, therefore, it should be illegal to smoke in them .... or have they been exempted because of human rights issues.

Maybe ALL prisoners should be made to smoke no less than 50 unfiltered ciggys a day and make there own coffins in work skills time !

There has been an exemption for prisons, most of the guards smoke as well.
The justice minister is probaly using the ban as an excuse to stop the dept getting sued but its good.
Anything that causes crooks in jail discomfort is fine by me, but the guards can go outside the gates for a butt I guess if they are that addicted.
What makes me sick are the **** for brains people at Health Dept building in Paramount Drive smoking outside, I have been surely tempted to knock them flat but I just give them the fingers.

pctek
28-06-2010, 10:44 AM
I may be totally wrong ... but I was under the impression that it was illegal to smoke in any government building or indeed any workplace.

Public areas and workplaces. Prisons (for the prisoners) are neither.

prefect
28-06-2010, 10:48 AM
//www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10654970

B.M.
28-06-2010, 11:22 AM
Personally I think this Smoking v Health is an inexact science.

You see, I had an Uncle that had chain smoked since he was fourteen.

His hands, teeth, lips, were almost black with nicotine stains and to see him cough in the morning was a sight to behold. He would roll a cigarette and go outside into the garden where he would grab hold of a branch of an old apple tree and hes start coughing. What he coughed up defies description and by the time hed finished the whole household was coughing in sympathy.

Anyway, he eventually dies of Lung Cancer aged 87 :dogeye: and the anti smoking lobby claimed him as a great example of how smoking kills you. :confused:

Now, am I to assume that had he not smoked he would be representing us in the decathlon at the next Olympics? He would only be 112. :rolleyes:

Sweep
28-06-2010, 12:03 PM
For the record I am fatalistic about my future and as I'm not affecting anyone else I suggest they simply butt out of my life.

I don't try to insist people take up smoking so why do people try to insist *I* stop smoking?

Tobacco products are still legal.

prefect
28-06-2010, 12:17 PM
Because the smoking will make you sick and I have to pay for your stay in hospital thru my taxes thats why.
Lots of things are legal that will kill you.

Sweep
28-06-2010, 12:27 PM
Because the smoking will make you sick and I have to pay for your stay in hospital thru my taxes thats why.
Lots of things are legal that will kill you.

First of all you insist that smoking WILL make me sick and secondly I spent 50 years working and smoking and paying taxes. So just why am I using your tax money for the hospital stay I haven't had yet?

pctek
28-06-2010, 12:30 PM
I have to pay for your stay in hospital thru my taxes


And no you taxes aren't paying the costs, the gigantic tax on the things themselves more than pays for it twice over.

pctek
28-06-2010, 12:31 PM
I had an Uncle that had chain smoked since he was fourteen.

he eventually dies of Lung Cancer aged 87 and the anti smoking lobby claimed him as a great example of how smoking kills you.


Of course. Whatever he died of would have been blamed on smoking.

shermo
28-06-2010, 12:46 PM
Smoking is great for the government coffers. From an economic standpoint, the sooner you die after retiring the better.

Twelvevolts
28-06-2010, 12:54 PM
I am sure a little baccy will smuggled into the prisons, but there is a plus side when the rellies of scum crooks get caught smuggling stuff they lose visitation rights for a year.
So the punishment of the crook is further increased and the victims will feel better still when they hear about it.
Christ I love this new minister of justice shes a gutsy hua.
Most prison officers smoke so they are going to be grumpy going all day without a smoke so the scum crooks are going to get it.

I'm sure the Minister of Justice Simon Power will be pleased you called him a she. Pretty much your usual level of research on Criminal Justice issues though.

Sweep
28-06-2010, 01:03 PM
So you're a sick senior citizen and the government says there is no nursing home available for you - what do you do?

Our plan gives anyone 55 years or older a gun and 4 bullets. You are allowed to shoot 2 MPs and 2 illegal immigrants!
Of course, this means you will be sent to prison where you will get 3 meals a day, a roof over your head, central heating, air conditioning and all the health care you need! New teeth - no problem. Need glasses, great. New hip, knees, kidney, lungs, heart? All covered. (And your kids can come and visit you as often as they do now).

And who will be paying for all of this? The same government that just told you that they cannot afford for you to go into a home.

Plus, because you are a prisoner, you don't have to pay any income taxes anymore.
IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?

Twelvevolts
28-06-2010, 02:29 PM
So you're a sick senior citizen and the government says there is no nursing home available for you - what do you do?

Our plan gives anyone 55 years or older a gun and 4 bullets. You are allowed to shoot 2 MPs and 2 illegal immigrants!
Of course, this means you will be sent to prison where you will get 3 meals a day, a roof over your head, central heating, air conditioning and all the health care you need! New teeth - no problem. Need glasses, great. New hip, knees, kidney, lungs, heart? All covered. (And your kids can come and visit you as often as they do now).

And who will be paying for all of this? The same government that just told you that they cannot afford for you to go into a home.

Plus, because you are a prisoner, you don't have to pay any income taxes anymore.
IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?

Could be worse - you could be sent to Tokoroa for the rest of your life.

Trev
28-06-2010, 02:58 PM
More Here. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10655022)
:)

mikebartnz
28-06-2010, 08:58 PM
Of course. Whatever he died of would have been blamed on smoking.
I have often had my doubts about the figures they give. If I ended up with lung cancer now they would straight away put the blame on smoking and yet I have handled 245T, DDT, asbestos and as a painter god knows what with the dust and fumes.
One time they came out with some figures for deaths because of second hand smoke and there wouldn't have been a smoker alive if those figures were true.

Sweep
28-06-2010, 09:03 PM
Then of course there are all the fumes wafting around from motor vehicles exhausts to be considered as well.

mikebartnz
28-06-2010, 09:19 PM
Then of course there are all the fumes wafting around from motor vehicles exhausts to be considered as well.
Nothing like a walk through the MT Vic tunnel.:yuck: