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AZ1
16-05-2010, 05:33 PM
I had a look at the Ubuntu website and I was just wondering what is the difference with Ubuntu and Windows. And if I can use windows program on Linux Ubuntu?

Note: Ubuntu is a free OS!:sleep

KarameaDave
16-05-2010, 05:40 PM
There are several things to run a Windows program in Linux.
But they do not run 'natively'
WINE
Cediga (commercial based on WINE)
Crossover (commercial based on WINE)
are 3

note: not all Windows stuff runs well.
Some not at all!

AZ1
16-05-2010, 05:43 PM
There are several things to run a Windows program in Linux.
But they do not run 'natively'
WINE
Cediga (commercial based on WINE)
Crossover (commercial based on WINE)
are 3

note: not all Windows stuff runs well.
Some not at all!

Thanks
Should I change from Ubuntu?

rumpty
16-05-2010, 05:45 PM
As you said, Ubuntu is free. That is a big difference.

No, it is not intended that you use Windows programs on Ubuntu.

AZ1
16-05-2010, 05:48 PM
I will still like to play my fave game rfactor

wainuitech
16-05-2010, 05:53 PM
what is the difference with Ubuntu and WindowsWell thats a question that could cause a huge debate ( read as possible fight).

Both are OS's and both are good at doing what they. Both can do some things others cant.( that comment alone will cause a disagreement)

If you are asking which is better - you will get different answers from different people. Some Linux users hate windows, some windows hate Linux. Some use both OS's - Fact of life.

There are programs you can use in Linux, that allow SOME Windows programs to work, but not every one does.Just like there are programs for Linux, that are not available for Windows.

It really depends on what OS you want to use.


Should I change from Ubuntu? Thats a question only you can answer. People can suggest or some will even insist what you should use, but in the end its your choice. Many people Dual boot with Windows & Ubuntu - best of both worlds then.

AZ1
16-05-2010, 06:09 PM
Thanks Guys!

Morgenmuffel
16-05-2010, 06:58 PM
No point changing from Ubuntu to another flavour of linux if you are looking for Windows support they are all much of a muchness as the windows support comes from 3rd party addons like wine or cedega or another thingie.

Ubuntu is big in linux and has a very good support forum where you're not treated like a dick if you ask a dumb question and is newbie friendly

Thebananamonkey
16-05-2010, 07:12 PM
I'd use Ubuntu in a heartbeat if I had native (not WINE) support for my games.

There are NO good games written natively for Linux. If you want to game, use a Microsoft OS. If you don't, Linux. If you have too much money and are happy to blindly believe what TV tells you (was once told that it was better because "it's more creative"... ha!) then go Apple.

They're all OS's in the end and none of them are anywhere near perfect.

mikebartnz
16-05-2010, 10:07 PM
DualBoot

Bobh
16-05-2010, 11:04 PM
I have just setup a dual boot of Linux Ubuntu Gnome with MS Windows 7. It was a bit tricky working out how to do it. I eventually succeeded by installing Linux while in Windows 7 using an ISO disk I had created.

I enjoy flitting between the two operating systems. Windows 7 is still my main operating system. I have a lot to learn about linux.

I would recommend a dual boot so you can have the best of both worlds.

Thebananamonkey
16-05-2010, 11:30 PM
I would recommend a dual boot so you can have the best of both worlds.

The best of Linux is that it's simple and free. Having an OS you have to pay for aswell negates that. Thus, not the best of both worlds.

I argue that if you already have Windows 7 that you have a working OS already and have no need for another. Especially if your hardware is at all modern.

For slower hardware (older comps/netbooks) or for people who don't feel the need to buy an OS when there are perfectly good free alternatives it's perfect.

Sweep
16-05-2010, 11:50 PM
The best of Linux is that it's simple and free. Having an OS you have to pay for aswell negates that. Thus, not the best of both worlds.

I argue that if you already have Windows 7 that you have a working OS already and have no need for another. Especially if your hardware is at all modern.

For slower hardware (older comps/netbooks) or for people who don't feel the need to buy an OS when there are perfectly good free alternatives it's perfect.

Well I have Win 7 and I also use Linux for running a C compiler so hence I dual boot.

KarameaDave
16-05-2010, 11:59 PM
I use Linux Mint for browsing and general use.
Vista if I need Photoshop or Premiere Pro.

Erayd
17-05-2010, 12:41 AM
The best of Linux is that it's simple and free. Having an OS you have to pay for aswell negates that. Thus, not the best of both worlds.This only applies if your only reason for installing Linux was to avoid paying for Windows. There are many people, myself included, who use it for the functionality it offers, and price has nothing to do with their decision to use it.

Even if Linux cost several thousand dollars, I'd still be using it.


I argue that if you already have Windows 7 that you have a working OS already and have no need for another. Especially if your hardware is at all modern.From the perspective of a happy Windows user, that's true. From the perspective of someone like myself who requires and / or makes use of the many features offered by a POSIX OS (that Windows simply doesn't provide)... no. Sure, Win7 is a good OS, but it's simply lacking far too much for it to be a viable choice for me.

Most Linux users aren't using it because of the pricetag :rolleyes:.

johnd
17-05-2010, 11:31 PM
Most Linux users aren't using it because of the pricetag :rolleyes:.
.. and it not necessarily about dollars - some see it as an issue of freedom - "free as in free speech, not free beer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_Libre)".

Thebananamonkey
18-05-2010, 12:24 AM
Most Linux users aren't using it because of the pricetag :rolleyes:.

I see your point and completely agree in your case. However, for the vast majority of users who don't need the flexibility and customisation that Linux offers, having a dual boot is not very useful.

I find it very good for old laptops and am considering using it on a cheap-ish HTPC that I may build this year. I had it as a dual boot on this comp for a while and just found that I never used it. I got sick of having to change every time I wanted to play a game or listen to my itunes music without having issues.

Agent_24
18-05-2010, 12:55 PM
I will still like to play my fave game rfactor

Unless that game has native Linux binaries it won't run natively. Of course you could try running it under WINE but that probably won't work actually.

However I do suggest you still try Ubuntu anyway, you may find it quite interesting.

You can download or order a Live CD and boot it and have a look around without having to install anything to your hard drive.

Brooko
18-05-2010, 01:40 PM
I'd definitely suggest downloading and running a live-cd. Make sure you also join the linux forum for the distro you choose. Most forums I've found are pretty friendly and willing to help out.

Only thing I'd suggest is not to try and make linux into windows. It doesn't work thay way - and constant comparisons will end up doing nothing but frustrate you. It's a totally different OS - if you do spend the time with it though, you may find that the benefits over time will end up with you booting less and less to Windows.

BTW - rfactor is supported in Wine (link here (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2678)) - so that front looks good.

If Ubuntu is not what you're looking for - I'd recommend trying Mint (Ubuntu base), Mepis (Debian base), or PCLinuxOS (RPM). All three are very good especially for beginners. And more importantly, all three have pretty good forums.

@Erayd/Johnd - totally agree with you on your comments. I started with linux 4 years ago out of curiousity. I now package for a distribution - and very rarely use Windows except for high end games. Some of the linux gaming is actually very good in it's own right.

@thebananamonkey - for itunes, try gtkpod. Or better - get a non-proprietory and not "locked-in" player. Cowon and Sony units are excellent. BTW - this is very subjective:

There are NO good games written natively for Linux.
Running natively (quite old - but still good - and this just a taste)
- Quake4
- Doom3
- Prey
- Penumbra
- Urban Assault
- Descent 1, 2 and 3
Running in Wine - and they run really well!
- Civ4
- Heroes5
- Brothers in Arms (RTH40 & EIB)

I just wish there were Crysis and other later game ports to Linux. But I think that will come in time.

Thebananamonkey
19-05-2010, 12:38 AM
QUITE old? Those games were written in the Cambrian age.

Rod J
19-05-2010, 07:41 PM
i'm dual booting Ubuntu 10.04 and WinXP and I have WinXP in a VirtualBox running in Ubuntu as well. I hardly ever boot into Windows now, had to yesterday to use my ancient parallel port scanner as it will not work in Ubuntu.

As far as games go: Nexuiz is good natively in Linux, and under Wine StarCraft (OK, I know it's old) works perfectly and Kyodai Mahjongg 2006 actually works better than I could get it running in Windows 7 RC when I tried it there.

Erayd
19-05-2010, 08:26 PM
Unreal Tournament 2004 also runs natively in Linux.

icow
19-05-2010, 09:00 PM
DualBoot

:clap

Battleneter2
19-05-2010, 10:26 PM
Due to the lack of integrated DX9,10,11 support Linux is a piss poor gaming O/S, sure a handful of mostly old games can be emulated.

Linux has major advantages in the commercial world, I can never recommend it for mum and dad at home over a OS like Windows 7 or even XP for that matter.

KarameaDave
19-05-2010, 10:37 PM
http://www.dedoimedo.com/games/wine-directx.html
Directx 9 installation for WINE:p

mikebartnz
20-05-2010, 12:24 AM
I can never recommend it for mum and dad at home over a OS like Windows 7 or even XP for that matter.
Why not because most mums and dads aren't gamers and for email, cruising and a little word processing it is a lot more stable than Windows.

KarameaDave
20-05-2010, 12:41 AM
And less likely to fall foul of the old malware.

Brooko
20-05-2010, 01:15 AM
Due to the lack of integrated DX9,10,11 support Linux is a piss poor gaming O/S, sure a handful of mostly old games can be emulated.
I have DX9 running under Wine - and you'd be surprised how many good games run under it - and very well. Would I recommend Linux to serious gamers yet - no. To casual gamers (I'm one) - no problems.



Linux has major advantages in the commercial world, I can never recommend it for mum and dad at home over a OS like Windows 7 or even XP for that matter.
Bollocks - my kids are growing up with it and they have no problems at all. In fact most of the people I show it to - who are willing to give it a decent go - rarely go back. I have one 60yo (not family) who knows nothing of computers, swears it is much easier to use than 'that other system'.

Different people have different needs. A linux system set up properly - most non computer savvy people wouldn't even know the difference.

Rod J
20-05-2010, 01:52 PM
Different people have different needs. A linux system set up properly - most non computer savvy people wouldn't even know the difference.

Agreed ... the local camp ground here has a PC set up for people to use (a kiosk system, just put $2 into it and surf and email for 20 minutes). It was set up with WinXP originally but some time ago they changed it to Ubuntu Linux 8.04 LTS ... I'm sure most people don't even realise it's not Windows when they use it. It doesn't seem to phase anyone at all.

Battleneter2
20-05-2010, 03:15 PM
http://www.dedoimedo.com/games/wine-directx.html
Directx 9 installation for WINE:p

umm FOR WINE, hello!!


I have DX9 running under Wine - and you'd be surprised how many good games run under it - and very well. Would I recommend Linux to serious gamers yet - no. To casual gamers (I'm one) - no problems.



Great list all the latest high end games you are running under wine :rolleyes:



Lets not BS the less informed, Linux is not a Gaming OS as i dual boot myself i have a pretty good idea. Linux fans loose creditability when they misrepresent what linux strong points really are.

Erayd
20-05-2010, 05:53 PM
umm FOR WINE, hello!!And why is this an issue? DirectX performance under wine (assuming your game will run - many do) is almost identical to DirectX performance on Windows.


Great list all the latest high end games you are running under wine :rolleyes:I'm not sure why you feel that Wine is such a huge problem - can you expand on that a bit?


Lets not BS the less informed, Linux is not a Gaming OS as i dual boot myself i have a pretty good idea. Linux fans loose creditability when they misrepresent what linux strong points really are.Lest we not BS the misinformed, Linux is more than capable as a gaming OS, and is about to get a native Steam client. You're right in that (at the moment) most games don't release a Linux native client - the reason for this is the small market share versus the effort of developing and supporting an OpenGL-based version of the rendering engine. The rationale is that DirectX is natively supported by a majority of their (Windows-using) customers, so they just don't bother with Linux. This doesn't mean that the platform itself is inherently incapable. Windows fans such as yourself lose credibility when they slag off the competition using invalid data...

Dannz
20-05-2010, 05:55 PM
Cedega is also pretty handy for Windows games on linux. Not free though :(

Agent_24
20-05-2010, 06:09 PM
A lot of games can work when you use http://www.playonlinux.com/en/.

It automatically configures and installs Wine and the games you want and gets you a working setup quickly and easily

Dannz
20-05-2010, 06:23 PM
A lot of games can work when you use http://www.playonlinux.com/en/.

It automatically configures and installs Wine and the games you want and gets you a working setup quickly and easily
Didn't know about that one, awesome!

Nomad
20-05-2010, 06:30 PM
I am not one of those tweaking geeky types.

I just want to check my emails, surf the web and run MS Office. I'm used to it at school or work.

I've tried Red Hat some yrs ago, too hard. I then tried Ubuntu, much easier but it was just too different. I could use it, sure. To me Windows is just more simple.

Nomad
20-05-2010, 06:33 PM
Why not because most mums and dads aren't gamers and for email, cruising and a little word processing it is a lot more stable than Windows.

They are used to MS Windows. Might be too much of a hassle to them I guess, to me it is. Plus Windows comes free with new computers. Well at least together in the purchase price.

Brooko
20-05-2010, 09:40 PM
Great list all the latest high end games you are running under wine :rolleyes:
Suggest you go back and reread my post - properly this time. Here - I'll help .....

Would I recommend Linux to serious gamers yet - no. To casual gamers (I'm one) - no problems.

A serious gamer will likely run high end games. Most won't run on linux - they're designed for windows. I thought I'd made that clear. I do use windows for farcry2 and crysis when the mood takes me. But I also play on linux - either natively or with wine:
Doom3, Quake4, Prey, Penumbra, Heroes4, Heroes5, Civ4, Brothers in Arms, Stalker, Il Sturmovik, Pacific Fighters. My wife plays here Hoyle games (all run really well on Wine). If you want a good list - try these two:
wine platinum apps/games (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&sTitle=Browse+Applications&iappVersion-ratingOp0=5&sappVersion-ratingData0=Platinum&sOrderBy=appName&bAscending=true) - over 100 titles
wine gold apps/games (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&sTitle=Browse+Applications&iappVersion-ratingOp0=5&sappVersion-ratingData0=Gold&sOrderBy=appName&bAscending=true) - approx 90 titles


Lets not BS the less informed, Linux is not a Gaming OS as i dual boot myself i have a pretty good idea. Linux fans loose creditability when they misrepresent what linux strong points really are.
And where did I misrepresent? Linux is a reasonable platform for the casual gamer. I'm not a fanboy - I use the appropriate application for the job. For my needs, 99% of the time it does everything I need. And considering I've been using the platform for over 4 years, and am now compiling for my distro's community repositories, and actively involved in it's development - I'd say I'm "reasonably" informed :rolleyes:

mikebartnz
20-05-2010, 10:34 PM
Suggest you go back and reread my post - properly this time. Here - I'll help .....

Would I recommend Linux to serious gamers yet - no. To casual gamers (I'm one) - no problems.

A serious gamer will likely run high end games. Most won't run on linux - they're designed for windows. I thought I'd made that clear. I do use windows for farcry2 and crysis when the mood takes me. But I also play on linux - either natively or with wine:
Doom3, Quake4, Prey, Penumbra, Heroes4, Heroes5, Civ4, Brothers in Arms, Stalker, Il Sturmovik, Pacific Fighters. My wife plays here Hoyle games (all run really well on Wine). If you want a good list - try these two:
wine platinum apps/games (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&sTitle=Browse+Applications&iappVersion-ratingOp0=5&sappVersion-ratingData0=Platinum&sOrderBy=appName&bAscending=true) - over 100 titles
wine gold apps/games (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&sTitle=Browse+Applications&iappVersion-ratingOp0=5&sappVersion-ratingData0=Gold&sOrderBy=appName&bAscending=true) - approx 90 titles


And where did I misrepresent? Linux is a reasonable platform for the casual gamer. I'm not a fanboy - I use the appropriate application for the job. For my needs, 99% of the time it does everything I need. And considering I've been using the platform for over 4 years, and am now compiling for my distro's community repositories, and actively involved in it's development - I'd say I'm "reasonably" informed :rolleyes:
Just ignore him.:devil

mikebartnz
20-05-2010, 10:36 PM
They are used to MS Windows. .
Stop talking BS they are used to browsing etc. Most wouldn't notice any real difference between the two.
You are dreaming if you think Windows comes free with a new PC.

Nomad
20-05-2010, 10:48 PM
Stop talking BS they are used to browsing etc. Most wouldn't notice any real difference between the two.
You are dreaming if you think Windows comes free with a new PC.

People like myself are just used to windows. The avg people I know, just wanna turn it on and it works and run MS Office etc.

I said it was not free but it comes within the package. The avg person buys a computer as a package at a real computer shop or at a toaster shop, Windows is included.

mikebartnz
20-05-2010, 11:36 PM
People like myself are just used to windows. The avg people I know, just wanna turn it on and it works and run MS Office etc.
So what is the difference as I just turn it on and it works and it isn't Windows.

Nomad
20-05-2010, 11:46 PM
For the masses Windows is a lot more user friendly.
More familiar with the start menu, it may be psychological but it is the same what they have at school or at work. If they wanna install Office it's less of a hassle, don't have to install VMware or whatever required, I may be more IT familiar than some non IT people but I have no clue how to install Office on Linux. If they wanna plug in their iPod or iPhone they can do that too.

Be it psychological feel good, I think the masses and myself prefer Windows.

I am more familar with Nokia, if I use a non Nokia phone, sure I can make a call, send a text but going via the menu's, and its keypad layout, I just prefer Nokias.

GameJunkie
20-05-2010, 11:46 PM
this is a trivial thread that can only bring out the worst in people who will vehemently defend an OS that they have become accustomed to.

Sweep
20-05-2010, 11:50 PM
this is a trivial thread that can only bring out the worst in people who will vehemently defend an OS that they have become accustomed to.

More or less as was mentioned way back in post #6.

Nomad
20-05-2010, 11:52 PM
As an example, I prefer not to deal with it, Win7 has been another learning curve for me. But I just gotta do it cos that is the future and that's the dominant market share. Down the road, schools and workplaces will use Win7.

I just recently got Office 2007, had/is a nightmare, took me 25mins to find the autosum function icon. True, I could of types it in manually but I wanted to challenge myself to find it. The ribbon style is totally new to me. I have a friend in Singapore who is planning on getting a new laptop and MS Office and he prefer to get Office 2010 because he doesn't want to deal with 2007. 2010 is not 2003 but at least the pill is mild.

Battleneter2
21-05-2010, 09:26 AM
And why is this an issue? DirectX performance under wine (assuming your game will run - many do) is almost identical to DirectX performance on Windows.


Put simply Wine only supports a percentage of games I am guessing 30%, many (I am being kind) of the later titles don't work.

Erayd
21-05-2010, 04:40 PM
Put simply Wine only supports a percentage of games I am guessing 30%, many (I am being kind) of the later titles don't work.Oh absolutely - nobody is trying to claim otherwise.

legod
24-05-2010, 11:33 PM
I'm currently running Windows 7 and am considering installing Ubuntu onto a separate physical hard drive.

What do I need to do to make sure that I get a prompt to choose which OS to load when booting up?

The other day I installed Ubuntu onto a separate HDD and the system was still booting into Windows with no prompt. If I wanted to run Ubuntu, I then had to change the booting priority of the hard drives.

Any help appreciated.

Agent_24
24-05-2010, 11:43 PM
When you change the boot priority and boot from the Ubuntu drive, does your Grub menu show an entry for Windows or does it only show Ubuntu?

legod
24-05-2010, 11:59 PM
When you change the boot priority and boot from the Ubuntu drive, does your Grub menu show an entry for Windows or does it only show Ubuntu?

Well I'm going to try another installation attempt later this week so will report back.

I presume I need to change the BIOS so booting order priority is set to the HDD that Linux is installed on?

Agent_24
25-05-2010, 12:16 AM
Yes, or your BIOS may have an option to select a boot device at POST

Pressing F8 or F11 or F12 or.. you get the idea (usually at the same point where you would press Delete to enter the BIOS setup) will get you a boot menu. Much easier than changing the boot order each time.

I think when you install you will need to install Grub to the drive with Windows on it, so that it recognises the Windows installation and adds it to the boot list.

Rod J
25-05-2010, 02:01 AM
Or leave Grub installed on the drive that has Ubuntu and install EasyBCD (http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1) in Windows 7. This free utility makes adding other os's (including Linux) to Windows 7 Boot Manager fairly easy. Then when you are booting you will see Windows Boot Manager with the choice to boot into Win7 or Ubuntu.