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Zippity
12-05-2010, 09:18 AM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10644368

When is enough enough?

What are the answers?

Please, for a change, no smart arse replies.

Winston001
12-05-2010, 09:23 AM
Education by parents.

Marnie
12-05-2010, 09:44 AM
I agree, Winston, but the parents seem to be sensible people.
I am not going to go into published details about him lying to the parents, it won't solve anything and I think kids have all done that at some time in their turbulent teens and wanting to be part of the peer group.
Those of us whose children have now grown up just thank our lucky stars that they got through that stage unscathed. We did our best and hoped they would make the right choices.
Much of society seems to have suddenly thought that teens are adults and have that wisdom. Why should they have 'evolved' to that stage in comparison to what was expected of previous generations?
It was always stressed to us that we are accountable for what we do and not hide behind blaming others.

prefect
12-05-2010, 09:59 AM
There is very little that can be done to stop young people getting pissed. Parents can only advise their kids to take it easy with piss but if other peoples kids are like my kids they wont take much notice.
Bing drinking is just a modernistic pathetic term for a condition that has lots of colorful descriptions like getting pissed as a chook,munted, ratfaced,turped up, smashed, off your face, blotto.
Its part of European history for at least a couple of thousand years to drink to get drunk Drinking heavily was part of my of culture when I was as a young fella. All the the bleating and hand wringing in the world wont stop people drinking. At best it just makes it difficult for them but young people are resourceful and will get hold of the piss one way or the other and will get drunk.
It sucks really, my generation and generations back to the middle ages got pissed and had fun now we get all cereal about it for the young people and want to put controls on them.
I say to my 2 boys if you can make it past age 25 with out killing yourself with drugs, piss and car accidents you have a good chance of surviving till alloted 3 score and ten.

Metla
12-05-2010, 10:02 AM
Actions have consequences, no matter what your age, Its not a matter of enough is enough or what can be done, There are no answers.

People are dreaming if they think they can make a world where people have (some) free will yet won't ever make a decision that ends badly.

Live with it.

kenj
12-05-2010, 10:11 AM
I carry teenage girls on my mini-van run...I have asked them why they get smashed when they drink.

The common reply is... "what's the point in drinking if you don't get smashed?"

I ask you!!!!!

There was a guy talking on NewstalkZB this morning on my way home. He said that the kids look at an activity and apply only one criteria these days. That happens to be "Is it fun" The thought of "is it safe doesn't enter their heads.

Ken

Metla
12-05-2010, 10:13 AM
And on the other hand everyone's complaining that society is being wrapped in cotton wool.

Bozo
12-05-2010, 10:23 AM
So what, we just ban/make it really hard for people under a certain age to get hold of substances that when used out of proportion can kill someone?

Doesn't that rule out most things that can be bought over the counter today?

From the interview on Close Up last night, it was stated that his mother never drank, and his father rarely drank and had never been 'drunk'.
I'm guessing that he wasn't told that alcohol was ok in moderate amounts, and what can happen if too much is consumed.
Just a random thought, but he may have been told something more along the lines of "alcohol is bad, don't touch it".
So all he knew was alcohol as bad, and he wanted to be bad so he drank some.
Now if he knew the possible consequences of drinking such vast amounts as opposed to having a few, I wonder what the outcome may have been.

Just my ponderings anyway...

Gobe1
12-05-2010, 10:29 AM
yep correct all of you, and it just takes one to wreck it for everyone else.
The fall out from this will be huge knowing national

Zippity
12-05-2010, 10:43 AM
Should the "adult" who carried James outside and placed him in the recovery position be charged with manslaughter for not taking proper care?

Trev
12-05-2010, 10:44 AM
I use to drink alot when I was young, but never got so drunk as not to remember anything as I use to get sick and vomit, before I could get that far. Read Here. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10644366) I think the main reason there is a drinking culture among kids is because alcohol is so readily availible. When I was a kid the drinking age was 21 and I think you could only buy alcohol from pubs bottle stores which shut at 6 oclock.
:)

prefect
12-05-2010, 10:48 AM
This might shock the **** out of you, but I had a good time in my youth getting blind drunk. I drunk with a fantastic group of friends some who would do amazingly funny things at parties and pubs which they never do sober. There were causalitys just like bungy jumping.
It was all about fun and comradeship which isn't so important these days.
Remember the facts in this case before going off half cocked on restrictions and control

The kid was only 16
The kid stole the piss
The kid told lies
The kid hoovered the bottle of piss down
The kid didnt spew the piss up like normally happens

And another thing if the kid was a Pacific Islander in a garage in Otara instead of a rich white kid would it have even rated one line in the newspaper?

Metla
12-05-2010, 11:08 AM
Should the "adult" who carried James outside and placed him in the recovery position be charged with manslaughter for not taking proper care?

No, thats madness.

If the "child" ran in front of a bus, and then died from his injuries would you then want any adults who may have helped him to be charged with manslaughter?

The boy did this, no one else.

utopian201
12-05-2010, 11:09 AM
My opinion is that it is no one elses fault but that kids. No one is responsible for your actions except you.

Just like that girl (if I recall correctly) who had more than a couple drink driving convictions, but she decided to drive under the influence again. The end result was that she killed herself in a car crash. Her tearful mother said on tv it was the court's fault for not confiscating her car, that it was the government's fault for not raising the drinking age, that it was the school's fault for not educating about the dangers of drinking and driving.

I know it is a terrible thing to lose your child, but the blame cannot be placed on anyone else.

pctek
12-05-2010, 11:11 AM
To a point it's a cultural thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

johcar
12-05-2010, 11:15 AM
And on the other hand everyone's complaining that society is being wrapped in cotton wool.

Once again Metla has nailed it in one.

It's because 'everything' is made safe by well-intentioned idiots that the "Is it safe?" thought never enters the minds of many young people.

They EXPECT it to be safe, because they often get very little exposure to things that are NOT safe these days.

I look at these types of news reports with sadness for the family and friends of the victim, but think of it like the road toll. People are going to die, no matter what legal measures/rules are put in place. There's not a lot of point agonising over it.

It's life. Take some personal responsibility for your own life and get on with it. Stop worrying about trying to run other people's lives for them, because they're going to make their own decisions anyway (right or wrong - which can be subjective).

Sweep
12-05-2010, 11:24 AM
A tragic early end to a young life once again.

We all look for someone to blame when things like this happen.

A law change would not do anything as legally he was underage to buy alcohol anyway.

Education does not work as we are all warned about the dangers of drugs, smoking, stranger danger etc.

PaulD
12-05-2010, 11:31 AM
A tragic early end to a young life once again.

We all look for someone to blame when things like this happen.

A law change would not do anything as legally he was underage to buy alcohol anyway.

Education does not work as we are all warned about the dangers of drugs, smoking, stranger danger etc.

The law change that some want is a minimum drinking age as well as a purchasing age.

wratterus
12-05-2010, 11:36 AM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3684232/Killer-vodka-was-equal-to-75-beers

One thing I find interesting about that article is how on earth the father worked out that it was equivalent to 75 beers. It clearly states (example) on a 1L bottle of Smirnoff that it is equivalent to 35 standard drinks or whatever the number is. Where did he come up with 75 from?

I have downed most of a liter of Vodka in an evening before with no nasty side effects, other that what you would expect (how did I get here and where are my pants). :p

Proper education is needed though, johcar is right. Sounds like the kid may have had a bit of a sheltered upbringing and didn't know exactly what he was getting himself into?

Sweep
12-05-2010, 11:36 AM
The law change that some want is a minimum drinking age as well as a purchasing age.

But changing the law does not change behaviour does it!

Bozo
12-05-2010, 11:38 AM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3684232/Killer-vodka-was-equal-to-75-beers

One thing I find interesting about that article is how on earth the father worked out that it was equivalent to 75 beers. It clearly states (example) on a 1L bottle of Smirnoff that it is equivalent to 35 standard drinks or whatever the number is. Where did he come up with 75 from?

From one of the interviews on close up with that young chick, she mentioned he had shared a bottle of Jagermeister, and when he went back to the party people where giving him more drinks.



I have downed most of a liter of Vodka in an evening before with no nasty side effects, other that what you would expect (how did I get here and where are my pants). :p :D:banana

wratterus
12-05-2010, 11:40 AM
From one of the interviews on close up with that young chick, she mentioned he had shared a bottle of Jagermeister, and when he went back to the party people where giving him more drinks.


Ahh right.... yeah that would do it. :stare:

PaulD
12-05-2010, 11:51 AM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3684232/Killer-vodka-was-equal-to-75-beers

One thing I find interesting about that article is how on earth the father worked out that it was equivalent to 75 beers. It clearly states (example) on a 1L bottle of Smirnoff that it is equivalent to 35 standard drinks or whatever the number is. Where did he come up with 75 from?

I have downed most of a liter of Vodka in an evening before with no nasty side effects, other that what you would expect (how did I get here and where are my pants). :p



It was the Uncle. In the circumstances he's allowed a mistake.

It is confusing. The liquor industry has targeted various price points with differing strengths of cheap vodka. You could drink a bottle because you've had plenty of practice and you're not a teenager or because you're cheap and it's only 20 something %.

A change in minimum drinking age might reinforce that having a party with under age drinkers might be better than no supervision at all but it's still a stupid idea.

Billy T
12-05-2010, 12:16 PM
I have downed most of a liter of Vodka in an evening before with no nasty side effects, other that what you would expect (how did I get here and where are my pants).

Yes, but over what period of time? This kid drank it in just a few minutes by the sound of it. It also depends on how fast your liver is able to metabolise alcohol and that is a very individual thing and nothing to do with how conditioned you are to drinking. I metabolise very fast, in fact when drinking in the line of business for the purposes of providing a report on a police breath test machine sent to me from overseas I had a hell of a job maintaining a stable BAC for more than 20-30 minutes then it would start dropping like a stone. If the kid was a slow metaboliser that would have added to his problem and alcohol poisoning seems to have been the outcome.

It seems that privileged rich kids steal and tell lies pretty much the same as everybody else, or possibly even more so because they think they are untouchable.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Metal Head
12-05-2010, 07:09 PM
Toughen Up - it was collateral damage.

Paul.Cov
12-05-2010, 08:14 PM
An interesting thread.

I have to agree with a variety of statements so far:

1) Collateral damage - this will always happen now and then, regardless of the laws and taxes.

2) People are going to die, no matter what legal measures/rules are put in place. There's not a lot of point agonising over it. - Agreed. Death is certain, the only variables are when and why.

3) ...if the kid was a Pacific Islander in a garage in Otara instead of a rich white kid would it have even rated one line in the newspaper? - Yes, this is a sad double standard that genuinely exists in society, and in the media.

If this kid got ****-faced and killed himself in a car smash it would be par-for-ther-course. We accept the daily death from drunk driving as society's norm. Particularly from male teens.
However, the much more rare event of drinking oneself to death in a matter of hours is making headlines instead.
I suppose the answer is education regarding responsible drinking. The best lesson would be if the adults in society would set a good example, and if the laws came down much harder on those who violate OUR safety through their drinking.

As for me personally, I find Vodka has way too much punch. I steer clear of the stuff.
I do have to wonder if it's colourless nature has an influence on it being consumed to excess (like it's water, which it resembles). Would a simple colourant have the psychological effect of making people more aware of their consumption?

Sweep
12-05-2010, 08:22 PM
@ Paul.Cov

Methylated Spirits has a colourant but people still drink same.

Twelvevolts
12-05-2010, 09:10 PM
Should the "adult" who carried James outside and placed him in the recovery position be charged with manslaughter for not taking proper care?

One can understand the parents are desperately upset and grieving - but there is something disturbing in a situation where only one person was responsible for this (the deceased) how the parents look around for someone to blame. The adult clearly did what he thought was right at the time, turns out he might have done more to save him, but in no way is any fault attributable to him.

The victim reflex is so strong here in New Zealand right now that even where there is no crime, people try hard to find one so they can blame someone.

Twelvevolts
12-05-2010, 09:13 PM
@ Paul.Cov

Methylated Spirits has a colourant but people still drink same.

Saw a guy drinking Meths outside District Court Number 1 one day, try convincing him that prohibition (or adding poison for that matter) works as a preventative strategy.

qazwsxokmijn
12-05-2010, 09:32 PM
This sort of thing happens once in a while. I blame the fact that the kid probably just did not know what too much alcohol in one sitting can potentially do, simple as that.

When I was 16/17 I got drunk so bad....was off my face, couldn't remember most of what happened the night before, apparently said some funny/highly embarrassing stuff and had a hangover that lasted the whole day the next day.

Ever since that day I've never been drunk like that, but I still drink once in a while, sometimes causing a hangover the next day, but nothing like the above. I know what too much alcohol in one sitting can do, so I stop when I feel something is about to come off. :p

Nowadays I (borderline) enjoy sober driving some of my hilarious mates. They do/say the silliest things when off their face.

Friend 1: you SURE you're sober to drive??!
Me: yes, I only had one bourbon
Friend 1: whateves, you liar. What's 57+2?
Me: (thinking he's just being ridiculous/trying to be funny) oh **** just ST*U and get in the car
Friend 1: JUST ANSWER IT MAN!!!
Friend 2: **** man, it's 60!!!!

ubergeek85
14-05-2010, 01:50 AM
It really does sound like a bad combination of ignorance and situation, if he's never drunk before then he wouldn't know how it can sometimes take a moment for booze to do it's thing, so he thought I'll have some more, and more....

I think it would've been a different story if he had been drinking bourbon, he might be similar to me. I find vodka easy to drink straight, but bourbon is a challenge (not one I have passed though, I've drank a bottle of the stuff in a few hours).

As for adding a colouring, well, alcohol is meant to be colourless, odourless and tasteless, so if you add colour it's technically not vodka any more.