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jwig
08-03-2010, 10:41 PM
After a year of careful, low impact, 2 person household use, our HP desktop i.e. Vista, is freezing not long after start up...(i.e. keyboard, screen, mouse )and the only solution currently is turning the machine off at the power switch.This problem is still continuing even after a complete re-install from the image partition and every possible known diagnostics check of hardware, checking for virus, malware, defrag, diskclean, registry clean, re-installing only McAfeem Wiindows updates (77 in total and to my mind the suspect cause??). I have also cleaned dust from the fans and checked internal connections. We use wireless keyboard, mouse and a Thomson broadband modem, and have very few programmes running at startup The hardware is relatively new, 2 gig ram, core duo cpu, and has run sweetly til last week. Five solid days and much of the night with checks, backups, restores ad infinitum, and complete re-installs haven't solved the problem. HP, ( an email from their US help desk ), suggested the motherboard might be the problem but it checks out fine in diagnostic tests. I think it is software as a gut reaction but just know too little. Please can anyone suggest a useful course of action apart from dragging out the axe?

Bryan
09-03-2010, 07:42 AM
One thing I found with the wireless keyboard and mouse that caused my Vista system to freeze (before I went to W7) was the placement of the wireless receiver.

If it wasn't close to the mouse, about 300mm (and line of sight), sometimes I would have a Vista freeze. Also check tha batteries in the keyboard and mouse.

pctek
09-03-2010, 08:04 AM
re-installing only McAfee
HP, ( an email from their US help desk ), suggested the motherboard might be the problem but it checks out fine in diagnostic tests.?

I wouldn't use McAfee for starters.
And what diagnostic tests did you do on the motherboard?

Its going to be a hardware problem.

jwig
09-03-2010, 09:58 AM
Many thanks for the above helpful replies. I've tested out the mouse/keyboard location and used traditional plug ins...no change to problem. The diagnostic tests were those "onboard" with HP help sytem and in Microsoft PC Doctor and Hp Diagnostics. The computer freezes in ever increasing haste from a cold start .....takes about 8 minutes to a couple of minutes by the third restart. I'm beginning to feel it is a hardware issue in which case is it worth the repair cost as against a new machine that is running Windows 7?

Speedy Gonzales
09-03-2010, 10:11 AM
Did you uninstall Mcafee, to see if it made a diff in the boot time? Boot into safe mode / networking. Then post a hijackthis log its below. We'll see whats on it. Have the service packs been installed?

pctek
09-03-2010, 12:20 PM
The diagnostic tests were those "onboard" with HP help sytem and in Microsoft PC Doctor and Hp Diagnostics.

Hah.
The only real way to test hardware is to swap it out.

If it is quite old, then it may not be practical to replace a board. If you can find one that supports the CPU etc then yes you could.

Up to you really. Stick with ASUS or Gigbyte motherboards, low failure rate and 3 yr warranties.

jwig
13-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Thank you very much PCtek and Speedy Gonzales for being so helpful. I will try the uninstall of McAfee...comes with the xtra home package...then try to post the hijackthis log..I know how to boot into safe mode but have never done nay log analysis. I will give it a go. Sorry to be so slow but the reboots from the freezes are the problem and they seem to happen mid stream of doing anything. I have to rely upon an older dialup laptop for internet.

jwig
13-03-2010, 02:01 PM
Thank you very much PCtek and Speedy Gonzales for being so helpful. I will try the uninstall of McAfee...comes with the xtra home package...then try to post the hijackthis log..I know how to boot into safe mode but have never done any log analysis. I will give it a go. Sorry to be so slow but the reboots from the freezes are the problem and they seem to happen mid stream of doing anything. I have to rely upon an older dialup laptop for internet.

jwig
13-03-2010, 02:55 PM
Hello Speedy Gonzales

I booted in to safe / networking, uninstalled McAfee, (computer froze again ), installed Avast so that I could download Hijackthis safely, scanned for what I hope was the log you might be kind enough to look at. The computer does freeze in safe mode but not as much. It also froze mid an avast disk scan. I appreciate whatever advice you might be able to give me.

Many thanks.



Logfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.2
Scan saved at 2:41:38 p.m., on 13/03/2010
Platform: Windows Vista SP1 (WinNT 6.00.1905)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v8.00 (8.00.6001.18882)
Boot mode: Safe mode with network support

Running processes:
C:\Windows\Explorer.EXE
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\HijackThis\HijackThis.exe

R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://ie.redirect.hp.com/svs/rdr?TYPE=3&tp=iehome&locale=en_au&c=83&bd=Pavilion&pf=cndt
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.yahooxtra.co.nz/
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://ie.redirect.hp.com/svs/rdr?TYPE=3&tp=iehome&locale=en_au&c=83&bd=Pavilion&pf=cndt
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Search_URL = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://ie.redirect.hp.com/svs/rdr?TYPE=3&tp=iehome&locale=en_au&c=83&bd=Pavilion&pf=cndt
R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,SearchAssistant =
R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,CustomizeSearch =
R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Toolbar,LinksFolderName =
O1 - Hosts: ::1 localhost
O2 - BHO: Adobe PDF Reader Link Helper - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Acrobat\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: Google Toolbar Helper - {AA58ED58-01DD-4d91-8333-CF10577473F7} - C:\Program Files\Google\Google Toolbar\GoogleToolbar_32.dll
O2 - BHO: Google Toolbar Notifier BHO - {AF69DE43-7D58-4638-B6FA-CE66B5AD205D} - C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\5.5.4723.1820\s wg.dll
O2 - BHO: Java(tm) Plug-In 2 SSV Helper - {DBC80044-A445-435b-BC74-9C25C1C588A9} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jp2ssv.dll
O3 - Toolbar: Google Toolbar - {2318C2B1-4965-11d4-9B18-009027A5CD4F} - C:\Program Files\Google\Google Toolbar\GoogleToolbar_32.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Windows Defender] %ProgramFiles%\Windows Defender\MSASCui.exe -hide
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [RtHDVCpl] RtHDVCpl.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [hpsysdrv] c:\hp\support\hpsysdrv.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [KBD] C:\HP\KBD\KbdStub.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [OsdMaestro] "C:\Program Files\Hewlett-Packard\On-Screen OSD Indicator\OSD.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [HP Health Check Scheduler] [ProgramFilesFolder]Hewlett-Packard\HP Health Check\HPHC_Scheduler.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\Windows\system32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MSSE] "c:\Program Files\Microsoft Security Essentials\msseces.exe" -hide -runkey
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [avast!] C:\PROGRA~1\ALWILS~1\Avast4\ashDisp.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [swg] "C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\GoogleToolbarNo tifier.exe"
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Sidebar] C:\Program Files\Windows Sidebar\sidebar.exe /autoRun
O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-19\..\Run: [Sidebar] %ProgramFiles%\Windows Sidebar\Sidebar.exe /detectMem (User 'LOCAL SERVICE')
O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-19\..\Run: [WindowsWelcomeCenter] rundll32.exe oobefldr.dll,ShowWelcomeCenter (User 'LOCAL SERVICE')
O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-20\..\Run: [Sidebar] %ProgramFiles%\Windows Sidebar\Sidebar.exe /detectMem (User 'NETWORK SERVICE')
O8 - Extra context menu item: Google Sidewiki... - res://C:\Program Files\Google\Google Toolbar\Component\GoogleToolbarDynamic_mui_en_96D6 FF0C6D236BF8.dll/cmsidewiki.html
O9 - Extra button: Send to OneNote - {2670000A-7350-4f3c-8081-5663EE0C6C49} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~3\Office12\ONBttnIE.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: S&end to OneNote - {2670000A-7350-4f3c-8081-5663EE0C6C49} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~3\Office12\ONBttnIE.dll
O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~3\Office12\REFIEBAR.DLL
O13 - Gopher Prefix:
O16 - DPF: {A3256902-51FA-45A0-8A97-FC1143C169D9} (Diagnostics ActiveX WebControl) - http://support.microsoft.com/mats/DiagWebControl.cab
O23 - Service: avast! iAVS4 Control Service (aswUpdSv) - ALWIL Software - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\aswUpdSv.exe
O23 - Service: avast! Antivirus - ALWIL Software - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashServ.exe
O23 - Service: avast! Mail Scanner - ALWIL Software - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashMaiSv.exe
O23 - Service: avast! Web Scanner - ALWIL Software - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashWebSv.exe
O23 - Service: GameConsoleService - WildTangent, Inc. - C:\Program Files\HP Games\My HP Game Console\GameConsoleService.exe
O23 - Service: Google Update Service (gupdate) (gupdate) - Google Inc. - C:\Program Files\Google\Update\GoogleUpdate.exe
O23 - Service: Google Software Updater (gusvc) - Google - C:\Program Files\Google\Common\Google Updater\GoogleUpdaterService.exe
O23 - Service: HP Health Check Service - Hewlett-Packard - c:\Program Files\Hewlett-Packard\HP Health Check\hphc_service.exe
O23 - Service: LightScribeService Direct Disc Labeling Service (LightScribeService) - Hewlett-Packard Company - c:\Program Files\Common Files\LightScribe\LSSrvc.exe
O23 - Service: McAfee Real-time Scanner (McShield) - Unknown owner - C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee\VIRUSS~1\mcshield.exe (file missing)
O23 - Service: McAfee SystemGuards (McSysmon) - Unknown owner - C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee\VIRUSS~1\mcsysmon.exe (file missing)
O23 - Service: NVIDIA Display Driver Service (nvsvc) - NVIDIA Corporation - C:\Windows\system32\nvvsvc.exe

--
End of file - 5729 bytes

jwig
13-03-2010, 02:57 PM
I should have added that i have installed all the latest updates from Microsft website. J.

Speedy Gonzales
13-03-2010, 03:46 PM
I would uninstall Avast, and Mcafee, if youre going to use MSE. I would also update to SP2

You can tick these, then tick fix checked

Close browsers

O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Windows Defender] %ProgramFiles%\Windows Defender\MSASCui.exe -hide

O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [swg] "C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\GoogleToolbarNo tifier.exe"

How much ram is on this?? Because sidebar can use a bit of ram

jwig
13-03-2010, 04:16 PM
Many thanks Speedy Gonzales...I will do as suggested...you are super quick. There is two gig of ram on onboard. I'll report back once I've completed the task...I'm very much a newbie at all this and I appreciate your goodwill and patience. J.

Speedy Gonzales
13-03-2010, 04:18 PM
No worries :) Is MSE the latest version?? Because this can slow things / programs down a bit (before you run them)

wainuitech
13-03-2010, 04:26 PM
See if you can actually see whats causing the freezes,
Try this.. Click Start, type in Reliability, from the results click on Reliability and Performance.

When it opens, on the left under monitoring tools, click Reliability Monitor - when it has frozen there will be a red circle with a white X click it, and below hopefully it will tell you what the cause / error is -- post back what it says.

jwig
15-03-2010, 08:56 AM
Many thanks Speedy G. and Wainui T.

You are both so helpful and thanks for your time and seemingly infinite patience. The diagnostics, system wouldn't stay unfrozen long enough to finish / save Reliability. The check and fix for hijackthis didn't change the problems and after successive uninstalls the system just wouldn't stay unfrozen long enough to do anything....The system seemed to be fine running from the C: prompt (e.chkdsk ) so I went for broke and did a factory settings reformat/restore from DVD's I'd made from system. The last reformat had been done from the partition. Sytem restores would either just fold on either a blue screen (00000 type error ) or freeze. I have thought about that axe a few times I have to admit.

Good news for now....(holding my breath about updates???)

So far the system has loaded fine. I'm stretching numb bum and getting a cup of tea before going to the endless updates... (OMG!). I wonder if I should have just gone and bought a copy of Windows 7. I'd really appreciate your views about that option.

At this point I think that your advice about conflicts McAfee and MSE is the kernel of the problem when combined with certain Windows updates. I haven't tackled them yet, (there are at least 77 to get to SP1 let alone SP2 ) Actually things went pear-shaped very fast when I went to update SP2 after doing all the incompatability uninstals. That is when I decided to try again with a blank canvas. I certainly shall be avoiding any more competing anti-virus. In my ignorance I thought MSE was an advisable addition for Vista. At least at this point I seem to have a stable sytem, ( no hardware issues touch wood. )

I'll keep you posted on progress but thanks again so much for your care and help, ( and to the other contributors.) You're just brilliant.

SolMiester
15-03-2010, 01:07 PM
System freezing is generally RAM issues....how old is this pc?, alot of new motherboards have issues auto selecting the correct voltage and speed for ram!

PENTIUM
15-03-2010, 01:38 PM
I thought it might be RAM also, now I think it might be the hard-drive as a new clean install will not be using any bad clusters.

SolMiester
15-03-2010, 02:14 PM
I thought it might be RAM also, now I think it might be the hard-drive as a new clean install will not be using any bad clusters.

Ummm, i guess, if the system was assessing the hard drive, but then you would get a read delay message

jwig
16-03-2010, 10:44 AM
Many thanks for all helpful perspectives. The factory restore hummed along OK then froze again at the installing of Office 2007. So it is off to the local techie: probably as earlier suggested a motherboard problem?. I'm holding the axe in reserve.

What I do notice about the physical appearance of this HP slimline, (new 15 months agao ) is the that the later models available now have the cooling vent holes in the top...this model does not and the space around the side and bottom venting it does have was a bit confined....could over-heating have contributed if it is a hardware issue?
Why would HP re-design the ventilation holes?

Thanks again everyone for your help. I'll post the results of the visit to techies.

jwig
25-04-2010, 12:36 PM
I wouldn't use McAfee for starters.
And what diagnostic tests did you do on the motherboard?

Its going to be a hardware problem.

Thank you PCTec and Wainuitec and Speedy G. ( and all those who gave me help and ideas. ) You are dead right PC, it is a motherboard overheating problem that after many false starts, refusals et al, that the retailer finally took to Hewlett packard and they have agreed to fix.

I was able to demonstrate that it couldn't be software or malware and have you all to thank for that. The international helpdesk for HP were very helpful and direct but diagnostics online was impossible as the computer would not stay unfrozen long enough. The freezing became more frequent over time and more obviously heat related.

We still have not got the machine back but a new manager at the retailer, (who recognised the "merchantable quality" component of Consumer Guarantees Act ), was really a breakthrough person. He listened, took notes and acted.

Thank you all very much indeed.